Frozen pension policy turns British expat's dream into a nightmare

[proton]

USA but not Canada is an odd one, there was a very old expat woman in Canada getting about 9 quid a week some years ago, must be dead now. About enough to get a bit of bread and milk,

[VBF]

8 hours ago, Chongalulu said:

On 4/27/2024 at 10:46 AM, VBF said:

I believe that's wrong - it would be unfrozen when you claimed it (as you say), but then refrozen at the now prevailing rate when you left.

Then your belief is wrong. I know!

Then you presumably didn't stay in UK for the minimum required 6 months

See  https://aseannow.com/topic/1325999-frozen-pension-policy-turns-british-expats-dream-into-a-nightmare/?do=findComment&comment=18875192

 

[MangoKorat]

On 4/26/2024 at 1:18 PM, MicroB said:

William Hague pointed out that todays NI contributions pays for today's pensioner, not your future pension. So arguments about paying into a system for future entitlement falls fat on its face. There isn't the money to pay for overseas pensioners, who mostly don't vote, who mostly don't pay taxes, to have their pension increased.

Complete twoddle!

 

If you stay in the UK they have to pay out the full state pension.  If you have no private pension you remain under the tax threshold. So a pensioner living in Thailand on today's full state pension would not pay tax nor would the same pensioner living in the UK.

 

Both groups, provided they have no other income DO NOT PAY UK TAXES.

 

Furthermore, pensioners living abroad don't cost the UK thousands of pounds each year in medication, hospital costs and doctor's appointments. The UK government should give people who choose to retire abroad more money, not less.

 

'Their isn't the money to pay for overseas pensioners' my ar5e, they'd have to pay it if you remained in the UK so what's the damned difference?

Edited April 28 by MangoKorat

[Felton Jarvis]

Absolutely unacceptable.  I am truly sorry for our fellow expats from the UK.

[MicroB]

29 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Complete twoddle!

 

If you stay in the UK they have to pay out the full state pension.  If you have no private pension you remain under the tax threshold. So a pensioner living in Thailand on today's full state pension would not pay tax nor would the same pensioner living in the UK.

 

Both groups, provided they have no other income DO NOT PAY UK TAXES.

 

Furthermore, pensioners living abroad don't cost the UK thousands of pounds each year in medication, hospital costs and doctor's appointments. The UK government should give people who choose to retire abroad more money, not less.

 

'Their isn't the money to pay for overseas pensioners' my ar5e, they'd have to pay it if you remained in the UK so what's the damned difference?

 

 

Why does the UK government have to do anything about? Because its fair? Out of pity?

 

320,000 pensioners in the UK, out of about 13 million, exist on a State pension. 66% of UK pensioners pay tax.

 

What percentage of expatriate pensioners only have a State Pension? Vanishingly small I suspect.

 

Right now, you are saving them money apparently  (an interesting position; I don't use the NHS much. Should I get a rebate for the money saved? I've never been in prison either, so I should get a refund there. Not been on the dole, so some more money back. Maybe I don't own a car, more money I am owed etc etc). So why should they change anything? While expats who have been out of the UK for more than 15 years cannot vote, of the numbers that can, a pitifully small number bother to register. It peaked in the run up to the Brexit vote, then has declined since. Generally Expatriates don't want to exercise their right to vote.

 

If you want your full pension, its pretty simple. Go back home. Otherwise, this is a life choice you made, that you knew about when you retired, and what pensioners have known about since 1955.  Its a policy they effectively supported in all those elections they voted in before they retired.

 

What would you say to UK voters, who have no intention to retire overseas, or who can only dream about retiring to some beach, why they should vote to improve your lot? When apparently all that money that you gave up because of a life choice, could be used, for instance, to establish a National Social Service (proper residential care that doesn't involve emptying someone's estate) (because you believe there is a magic pot of cash).

 

I suspect if UK pensioners decided to stop emigrating, and all expatriate pensioners were repatriated, then the entire system will collapse; both pensions, the NHS and Adult Social Services.

 

 

[MicroB]

1 hour ago, proton said:

USA but not Canada is an odd one, there was a very old expat woman in Canada getting about 9 quid a week some years ago, must be dead now. About enough to get a bit of bread and milk,

 

You really believe she was living on £9 a week in the US? Expats in the USA get their pension uprated every year. Someone receiving £9 per week didn't work in the UK for many years.

[MicroB]

8 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Suppose they left 40 years ago then hit their pension age, would they be started on the pension rate from 40 years ago?

So, they left the UK aged 25 years. You must pay NI for 10 years to get any pension. Most of those expats will not have paid enough NI to get any pension (you get 1 year credited in 6th form, zero NI credits in higher education, so those with any professional qualification would not get anything). 80% of UK expats have a degree, and among the pensioner population, you will likely see an elevated representation of graduates, compared to the UK domiciled population.

 

If you had paid in for 10 years, and 40 years later, in 2024, retired, your pension would be £63.20 per week. That's also how much you would get if you returned home, though you'll subsequently benefit from inflationary increases. You will also be able to access Pension Credit if in the UK, to bring your income up.

[Keeps]

8 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Suppose they left 40 years ago then hit their pension age, would they be started on the pension rate from 40 years ago?

If they left 40 years ago and were becoming pensionable age now it is very unlikely they would have any significant amount of NI qualifying years to contribute to a state pension.

 

If they did, it would be minimal due to contributory years but would start at the pro rata rate they were entitled to on the date they could claim. It would then be frozen at this rate.

[MicroB]

9 hours ago, jwest10 said:

NOTHING DONE AGAIN AND AGAIN GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR AND THEY WANT US DEAD ASAP SO NOTHING IS NEW THERE THEN 650 OF THE VERMIN AND SCUM

 

Why would UK residents, except family, care what happens to Expats. You made your choices, eyes wide open. Only if Bona Vacantia was involved, would the treasury benefit from your passing.

Edited April 28 by MicroB

[MicroB]

13 hours ago, nong38 said:

I believe is was in 1955 when few people ever went abroad let alone retired there! That fits with the 70 years mentioned, all political parties do not seem to want to change the situation and it comes for extension every year in February I think it is.

 

£10 poms. Through the fifties and sixties, about 200-300,000 people emigrated from the UK per year.

Edited April 28 by MicroB

[MangoKorat]

35 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

 

Why does the UK government have to do anything about? Because its fair? Out of pity?

 

320,000 pensioners in the UK, out of about 13 million, exist on a State pension. 66% of UK pensioners pay tax.

 

What percentage of expatriate pensioners only have a State Pension? Vanishingly small I suspect.

 

Right now, you are saving them money apparently  (an interesting position; I don't use the NHS much. Should I get a rebate for the money saved? I've never been in prison either, so I should get a refund there. Not been on the dole, so some more money back. Maybe I don't own a car, more money I am owed etc etc). So why should they change anything? While expats who have been out of the UK for more than 15 years cannot vote, of the numbers that can, a pitifully small number bother to register. It peaked in the run up to the Brexit vote, then has declined since. Generally Expatriates don't want to exercise their right to vote.

 

If you want your full pension, its pretty simple. Go back home. Otherwise, this is a life choice you made, that you knew about when you retired, and what pensioners have known about since 1955.  Its a policy they effectively supported in all those elections they voted in before they retired.

 

What would you say to UK voters, who have no intention to retire overseas, or who can only dream about retiring to some beach, why they should vote to improve your lot? When apparently all that money that you gave up because of a life choice, could be used, for instance, to establish a National Social Service (proper residential care that doesn't involve emptying someone's estate) (because you believe there is a magic pot of cash).

 

I suspect if UK pensioners decided to stop emigrating, and all expatriate pensioners were repatriated, then the entire system will collapse; both pensions, the NHS and Adult Social Services.

 

 

 

'Why does the UK government have to do anything about? Because its fair? Out of pity?'

 

Clearly because its fair.

 

Nothing you have said  from thereon in makes any sense whatsoever - just a load of gobbledygook. You have not offered one single justification as to why a pensioner that chooses to live abroad should not receive pension increases.

 

The plain and simple fact is that someone who is on basic state pension living in the UK costs the country much more than someone who has retired abroad.  There is no justification at all for them to each be given a different amount of pension. I really can't understand why you can't see that.

 

What difference does it make to the UK government where they live?  Neither group make contributions any longer and as I've pointed out, pensioners living abroad cost the UK government far less as they don't get medical treatment.

 

To be able to claim full state pension, a person has to have paid contributions for 30 years.  A lot of people left school at 16 and currently are entitled to their pension at 66.  The chances are that they have therefore, worked and paid NI contributions for 49 years (they currently stop at 65).  However, for various reasons they, especially females, may not have paid in every year.  So, there will be cases where a pensioner who has retired abroad may have paid in for 49 years and is no longer be entitled to any increases whereas his counterpart remaining in the UK may have only paid in for 30 years and receives every increase.

 

I am not retired yet but I've already cost the NHS quite a lot due to cancer and mini strokes.  I am now on medication for the rest of my life and I guess the cost is £50 per month. When I leave the UK on retirement, that cost will end and I'll have to pay it myself.  A hell of a lot of the pensioners I know are on some form of medication. For the first 40 years or so of my life I hardly ever visited a doctor but its a lot more frequent now - and don't forget, the population is aging.  They should bloody well pay us to leave - not refuse pension increases.

 

Another thing you fail to be aware of is that many basic pensioners in the UK qualify for housing benefit, council tax benefit, winter fuel payments, etc. etc. My own mother lived rent free for about 20 years and was then looked after at the expense of the country in a care home for another 15 years or so until she died. Had she left the UK, the country would not have been paying for that and there are literally THOUSANDS like her.

Edited April 28 by MangoKorat

[proton]

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

 

You really believe she was living on £9 a week in the US? Expats in the USA get their pension uprated every year. Someone receiving £9 per week didn't work in the UK for many years.

Canada not the US

[MicroB]

46 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

 

'Why does the UK government have to do anything about? Because its fair? Out of pity?'

 

Clearly because its fair.

 

Nothing you have said  from thereon in makes any sense whatsoever - just a load of gobbledygook. You have not offered one single justification as to why a pensioner that chooses to live abroad should not receive pension increases.

 

The plain and simple fact is that someone who is on basic state pension living in the UK costs the country much more than someone who has retired abroad.  There is no justification at all for them to each be given a different amount of pension. I really can't understand why you can't see that.

 

What difference does it make to the UK government where they live?  Neither group make contributions any longer and as I've pointed out, pensioners living abroad cost the UK government far less as they don't get medical treatment.

 

To be able to claim full state pension, a person has to have paid contributions for 30 years.  A lot of people left school at 16 and currently are entitled to their pension at 66.  The chances are that they have therefore, worked and paid NI contributions for 49 years (they currently stop at 65).  However, for various reasons they, especially females, may not have paid in every year.  So, there will be cases where a pensioner who has retired abroad may have paid in for 49 years and is no longer be entitled to any increases whereas his counterpart remaining in the UK may have only paid in for 30 years and receives every increase.

 

I am not retired yet but I've already cost the NHS quite a lot due to cancer and mini strokes.  I am now on medication for the rest of my life and I guess the cost is £50 per month. When I leave the UK on retirement, that cost will end and I'll have to pay it myself.  A hell of a lot of the pensioners I know are on some form of medication. For the first 40 years or so of my life I hardly ever visited a doctor but its a lot more frequent now - and don't forget, the population is aging.  They should bloody well pay us to leave - not refuse pension increases.

 

Another thing you fail to be aware of is that many basic pensioners in the UK qualify for housing benefit, council tax benefit, winter fuel payments, etc. etc. My own mother lived rent free for about 20 years and was then looked after at the expense of the country in a care home for another 15 years or so until she died. Had she left the UK, the country would not have been paying for that and there are literally THOUSANDS like her.

 

If you had multiple TIAs and strokes, at least you won't be drawing pension for that long. My dad got through 10 extra years after a TIA, and that likely triggered the Alzheimers he had for the last 5 years.

 

So you think its ok to transfer the health burdens from a country like the UK to a country like Thailand.

 

You ask what difference does it make to the UK government where they live? And then states the reason. Saves money, and they don't even have to give you more money.

 

I'm aware of all the other stuff you referred to. And its 35 qualifying years, not 30 years that you confidently stated, to get a full pension.

 

It seems given the numbers of pensioners living overseas on reduced pensions, the UK doesn't need to incentivise anyone to leave the UK. Your mum lived rent free, but people like me paid for that. her time in the home and getting benefits off the State was also facilitated by all those pensioners living it up in Spain, Greece, Canada, USA, Australia. Thailand. And then the country voted to ruin the lives of those pensioners through an act of national suicide called Brexit. Don't worry, in a few years time, there won't be a UK to pay out pensions.

 

Even on a full pension, your mum would have failed to meet Thailand's retirement visa requirements of a minimum income of 65,000 baht per month. How on earth do you think the government can fund a 50% increase in the State Pension in order to retire to Thailand. So she could not have left the UK (to go to Thailand). Certainly not the EU.

 

I'm not justifying the government's position. Just saying why they will never change that position, and its pointless people campaigning for it. There was a Petition, that got widespread coverage in the national press:

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/money/frozen-state-pension-payments-petition-32165447

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/642749

 

It attracted 5,352 signatures before it ran out of time. I thought there were half a million affected, and you were all going to sign this.. The simple truth is no one cares. More people signed a petition to raise the motorway limit to 100ph, to increase funding for deaf athletes, to take action to support the DRC, to bring back Kung Fu into GCSES.

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

Right now, you are saving them money apparently  (an interesting position; I don't use the NHS much. Should I get a rebate for the money saved?

I'm not saving them any money at all, I'm still in the UK, not retired yet and still receiving medical care. I have 4 blood tests every year and 1 hospital appointment to check that a previous cancer remains inactive. I also have medication every month to control my blood pressure. I will be leaving the UK later this year and will have all those things to pay for myself - that is my choice.

 

However, when I am old enough to receive a state pension, I will not be letting anyone know where I am. I am fortunate in that I can maintain a UK address and I will make sure my bank account is used.  Contrary to popular belief, there are ways of leaving and entering the UK without your final destination being known.

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

If you want your full pension, its pretty simple. Go back home. Otherwise, this is a life choice you made, that you knew about when you retired, and what pensioners have known about since 1955.  Its a policy they effectively supported in all those elections they voted in before they retired.

In fact, you are wrong there too,  I only became aware of this rule recently and only because I am a member of this forum.  Whenever I mention this to people I know, they are also unaware of it and the vast majority of them thinks its unfair.

[MangoKorat]

44 minutes ago, MicroB said:

If you had multiple TIAs and strokes, at least you won't be drawing pension for that long. My dad got through 10 extra years after a TIA, and that likely triggered the Alzheimers he had for the last 5 years.

So now you're a doctor?  I had 3 mini strokes (TIA's) last year and my doctor tells me that provided I keep to the medication and check my blood pressure regularly, I will live a normal life.  My granfather had high blood pressure most of his life, never had Alzheimers and died at 89 years old - despite smoking 60 Capstan Full Strength each day. Not everyone's the same.

 

44 minutes ago, MicroB said:

So you think its ok to transfer the health burdens from a country like the UK to a country like Thailand.

You are also a Fortune Teller too?  Where did I say I was transfering my 'health burdens' onto Thailand? I said I will be paying myself.  I am fully aware that I am not entitled to any free medical treatment in Thailand.

 

44 minutes ago, MicroB said:

I'm aware of all the other stuff you referred to. And its 35 qualifying years, not 30 years that you confidently stated, to get a full pension.

I believed it was 30 but fair enough. Not that it makes any difference - the scenario I mentioned can still take place.

 

44 minutes ago, MicroB said:

Even on a full pension, your mum would have failed to meet Thailand's retirement visa requirements of a minimum income of 65,000 baht per month.

A lot of people don't meet that requirement - there are ways and means.  Provided you own a home, its a lot cheaper to live in Thailand than it is in the UK.

 

Overall, there is no justification to refuse to allow those living abroad to receive annual pension increases.  I heard a governemnt minister talking about 'Champagne Pensioners' - living it up on the beaches whilst getting a pension from the UK - but I guess it makes a good sound bite and helps get the UK population on side.  I know of very few that are living it up.  I do know of some that have a better standard of living abroad than they would in the UK - simply because the money they do get, goes further.

 

Without looking back, wasn't it you who said that most pensioners also have a private pension?  You may mix in more educated, higher earning, middle class circles but the majority of people in the UK at the moment are about 1 pay cheque away from skint.  Lots of people would love to have saved for their retirement but the cost of living prevents them from doing so.

 

I am fortunate in that I saw the way private pensions were going years ago, cancelled mine and invested in property.  I will only get the basic state pension when I retire but I will make sure that I get every single penny of every increase.

Edited April 28 by MangoKorat

[Paris333]

I have already written you at 322 post of the current thematologio to stay in Greece half months and the rest months of the year in Thailand in order to avoid UK frozen pension "policy".

This is from todays news from CEO magazine

Rank    Country         Score
1          Thailand         72.15
2          Greece           67.22
3          Indonesia      65.15
4          Portugal        64.32

Source:

https://ceoworld.biz/2024/04/15/worlds-best-countries-to-visit-in-your-lifetime-2024/#google_vignette

I know many Britains pensioners at their early of 50s who came to live in Greece permanently during my last visit in Kalamata town which is 300 km from Athens (it takes 2,30 hours by car to go from Athens).

They have bought village house 5-7 km from the sea and the house is 120 sq/m .They bought old traditional style vilage houses at the price of €50.000 and the cost of renovation was around €25.000 to €30.000 including swimming pool and big garden.

The land of houses is 500 sq/m and they live a pure quality life at Greek village so....they do not want to hear again for Britain.

Unfortunately I am little jealeus because I have lived in Kalamata for 7 years and I had worked at Kalamata International airport furthermore I know very well surounding villages and I can΄t go because I have my job and my house in Athens.

I am frequent traveler in Thailand since 2010 except the last 2 years because of "corona" so I am unvaccinated and I do not trust medical funding mafia in Thailand and at my home country Greece because many cemeteries are full of vaccinated people due to of "sudden deaths" at their early of 50s or 60s and thanks God I am healthy no prescription drugs or hospital visits since 30 years ago.

So if Thailand cant help you to avoid your frozen U.K pension "policy" you are well come in Greece as thousands of your compatriots did since many decates ago.

I wish you every success in either of your choice for permanent stay and be relaxed -chill out and do not disturb yourself!

 

 

 

Edited April 28 by Paris333

[mommysboy]

10 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Suppose they left 40 years ago then hit their pension age, would they be started on the pension rate from 40 years ago?

 

Pension rate starts at the time your pension becomes payable as far as I know.

 

(Some people can choose to delay and get a little extra).

[MangoKorat]

Its quite simple really.

 

You contribute to a pension scheme in order to provide an income when you retire. The cost of living goes up each year so in order for pensions to keep up with that, pensions are increased each year.

 

How does it matter where you live? The likelihood is, you've paid in the same as those who stay in the UK and you might even have paid more.

 

Refusing to pay pension increases is just another way of the government 'balancing the books'.

 

Anyone who's been abroad fro any length of time and has missed out on the substantial recent increases would be well advised to return for a few months, visit some family, take in the rain and gain resident status again (6 months I think).  Then leave with their increased pension.

 

[theoldgit]

15 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

Pension rate starts at the time your pension becomes payable as far as I know.

 

(Some people can choose to delay and get a little extra).

I deferred mine when l reached pension age and l received the higher pension rate which was in force when I applied to draw it, not the lower rate which was in force when l became eligible.

As you point out l also got a little bit extra.

it was a calculated risk as l hoped l’d live long enough to make a profit.

[jacko45k]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:20 AM, delh said:

Whilst im not drawing mine yet, information from uk government is that mine will be 33000@ 46 baht/ pound

UK Government will not be controlling the exchange rate!

[new2here]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:16 PM, sambum said:

 

In a "caring society", which the UK seems to be judging on the number of immigrants it opens its doors to, one would expect it to treat all of its own citizens and  pensioners fairly, and in the same way.

 

Obviously they are NOT, and we can be forgiven for not wanting to live in a country that puts the lives and wellbeing of immigrants above that of its own citizens.

 

And quite possibly (and I know the facts should have been checked beforehand) a lot of the expats hit by this anomaly didn't know about it. After all, one would expect if you'd paid youur dues all your working life, it would be reasonable to expect that any benefits due to you in old age would be paid to you wherever you choose to live - would you not?

 

I get a company pension in addition to my State pension, and that is increased every year  in line with inflation, (minimum) and they don't specify where I have to live in order to get the increases, so why should the Government? And to the people who say "Ah, but you're not paying Income Tax in the UK (which was one of the reasons for the "knockback" a few years ago when the case was taken to the European Court of Human Rights ((I believe), I DO pay tax in the UK as my gross income from the 2 pensions is more than the Personal Allowances threshold, so my company pension is taxed!!!

 “ … And quite possibly (and I know the facts should have been checked beforehand) a lot of the expats hit by this anomaly didn't know about it. After all, one would expect if you'd paid youur dues all your working life, it would be reasonable to expect that any benefits due to you in old age would be paid to you wherever you choose to live - would you not?“

 

True.. but. I also think that for something as critical, and long lasting as a pension payment, that any possible recipient would do their “homework” and check out what the rules are or are not relative to the payment and any ways it can be altered up or down.

 

There’s always going to be a percentage who don’t read the fine print and/or ask questions before .. but in the end — and as my original comment stated - so long as the rule about who would and would not get the bump up, was properly disclosed “back then”, I can’t fault the government for any consequences “down the road”.

I also think it’s a fair point of discussion as to the “ethicalness” of it.. but that to me is a wholly separate discussion versus HOW any established rule is implemented. 

[edwinchester]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:15 PM, hunkidori said:

That's interesting. Is what you say fact or just what you think? 

 

 

Read it sometime ago, sorry can't find the link although there is a good post below with similar details.

[Wiggy]

On 4/26/2024 at 6:47 PM, worgeordie said:

too busy looking after immigrants.

Germany accepts far more immigrants than the UK but maintains one of the best pensions in Europe. Try again, without the right wing undertones. 

[Wiggy]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:13 PM, dinsdale said:

Can't give you anymore money because illigal immigrants are very expensive for the budget. You may be a British national but you are overseas and as such a lesser person to those who aren't Brits who have got a leaky boat to the Isles. It's a very, very sad world.

Rubbish, and racist. Germany has far more immigrants and maintains one of the best pensions in the EU. 

[Wiggy]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:28 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

There was a video on the subject posted a day or so ago explaining  the documentation that the International Pensions Section of the DWP requires to evidence residency.  You don't seriously think that they would just take the best part of half a million frozen pensioners' word for it, do you?!

Link?

[Wiggy]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:28 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

There was a video on the subject posted a day or so ago explaining  the documentation that the International Pensions Section of the DWP requires to evidence residency.  You don't seriously think that they would just take the best part of half a million frozen pensioners' word for it, do you?!

I just noticed that you have provided one already. Thanks. 

[FruitPudding]

9 hours ago, MicroB said:

So, they left the UK aged 25 years. You must pay NI for 10 years to get any pension. Most of those expats will not have paid enough NI to get any pension (you get 1 year credited in 6th form, zero NI credits in higher education, so those with any professional qualification would not get anything). 80% of UK expats have a degree, and among the pensioner population, you will likely see an elevated representation of graduates, compared to the UK domiciled population.

 

If you had paid in for 10 years, and 40 years later, in 2024, retired, your pension would be £63.20 per week. That's also how much you would get if you returned home, though you'll subsequently benefit from inflationary increases. You will also be able to access Pension Credit if in the UK, to bring your income up.

 

You can pay class 2 or class 3 national insurance while working abroad, like I am now.

 

It's more expensive than class 1 (working in UK), but still.

 

They also just allowed me to backpay 14 years of missed contributions since I left the UK.

 

Edited April 29 by FruitPudding

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

MMMM DON'T THINK SO ,

 

Can I get my Australian pension paid overseas?

 

 

If your payments can continue while you're outside Australia and you intend to be away for: less than 12 months, we'll continue to pay you every 2 weeks into your Australian bank account. more than 12 months, we'll pay you every 4 weeks into your Australian or overseas bank account.28 Sept 2023

[transam]

9 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

 

Why does the UK government have to do anything about? Because its fair? Out of pity?

 

320,000 pensioners in the UK, out of about 13 million, exist on a State pension. 66% of UK pensioners pay tax.

 

What percentage of expatriate pensioners only have a State Pension? Vanishingly small I suspect.

 

Right now, you are saving them money apparently  (an interesting position; I don't use the NHS much. Should I get a rebate for the money saved? I've never been in prison either, so I should get a refund there. Not been on the dole, so some more money back. Maybe I don't own a car, more money I am owed etc etc). So why should they change anything? While expats who have been out of the UK for more than 15 years cannot vote, of the numbers that can, a pitifully small number bother to register. It peaked in the run up to the Brexit vote, then has declined since. Generally Expatriates don't want to exercise their right to vote.

 

If you want your full pension, its pretty simple. Go back home. Otherwise, this is a life choice you made, that you knew about when you retired, and what pensioners have known about since 1955.  Its a policy they effectively supported in all those elections they voted in before they retired.

 

What would you say to UK voters, who have no intention to retire overseas, or who can only dream about retiring to some beach, why they should vote to improve your lot? When apparently all that money that you gave up because of a life choice, could be used, for instance, to establish a National Social Service (proper residential care that doesn't involve emptying someone's estate) (because you believe there is a magic pot of cash).

 

I suspect if UK pensioners decided to stop emigrating, and all expatriate pensioners were repatriated, then the entire system will collapse; both pensions, the NHS and Adult Social Services.

 

 

We have a "Go Back Home" micro member, how entertaining..............

[sambum]

2 hours ago, new2here said:

 “ … And quite possibly (and I know the facts should have been checked beforehand) a lot of the expats hit by this anomaly didn't know about it. After all, one would expect if you'd paid youur dues all your working life, it would be reasonable to expect that any benefits due to you in old age would be paid to you wherever you choose to live - would you not?“

 

True.. but. I also think that for something as critical, and long lasting as a pension payment, that any possible recipient would do their “homework” and check out what the rules are or are not relative to the payment and any ways it can be altered up or down.

 

There’s always going to be a percentage who don’t read the fine print and/or ask questions before .. but in the end — and as my original comment stated - so long as the rule about who would and would not get the bump up, was properly disclosed “back then”, I can’t fault the government for any consequences “down the road”.

I also think it’s a fair point of discussion as to the “ethicalness” of it.. but that to me is a wholly separate discussion versus HOW any established rule is implemented. 

 

I think that "back then", in the days before the internet and "hand held computers", most pensioners would probably get their information "passed down" by the guy sitting at the next seat in the bar/working mans club!

I can just see John Smith getting an envelope full of what he would consider "gobbledegook", showing it to a mate, and asking "What do you think this lot means?" And his mate replying, "Oh, nowt to worry about - it's just them telling you when your pension starts - everybody gets one of them!"