Thai Medics Warn of Covid Surge with 11 New Deaths

[frank83628]

1 minute ago, jayboy said:

 

I was withdrawn because it made no sense commercially now and there are other newer vaccines designed to tackle later variants.IT is estimated to have saved over 6 million lives thus served its purpose well.

 

Yes there were many anti vaccination fanatics (are you one, I don 't know) ranting about conspiracies and globalist plots.They did immense damage particularly where the gullible and ignorant were concerned.I suppose its inevitable a few of these geniuses are wittering even now about their discredited theories.

as a fit and healthy male no, i didn't get any covid vax. i didn't panic or <deleted> my pants like many did,  lapping up everything they're told while hiding behind the sofa!, i am not anti vax either, If you were worried, elderly or i ill health then go for it, get your vaccine shot  and leave the rest to do their thing, the vaccine protects you right. so i don't need it 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Startmeup said:

I guess there was no way for Astra Zeneca to know that the vaccine was going to cause people harm?

But 24 studies said this would never happen again……

 

The "24 studies" you reference, which were cited earlier in this thread, showed how COVID vaccines reduce the risk of Long COVID in recipients. And said nothing about "this would never happen again."

 

Those studies had/have nothing to do with what you're posting about here.

 

But indeed, ever since the beginning of the pandemic, health authorities have been clear that COVID vaccines could have rare and sometimes serious side effects. But that those, while regrettable, pale in comparison to the tens of millions of lives the vaccines saved from COVID.

 

------------------------------

 

Just remember, for every photo you post of a woman in a hospital bed, let's post millions of photos of people around the world who are still living their lives today because they got vaccinated and didn't end up dying from COVID.

 

Or of the millions more who had the opportunity to get vaccinated against COVID and refused, and ended up paying the price:

 

 

Florida radio host who called himself ‘Mr Anti-Vax’ dies of Covid-19

A conservative radio host from Florida who criticised coronavirus vaccination efforts – and called himself “Mr Anti-Vax” – before contracting Covid-19 himself has died, his station said on Saturday.

 

A statement said: “It’s with great sadness that WNDB and Southern Stone Communications announce the passing of Marc Bernier, who informed and entertained listeners on WNDB for over 30 years. We kindly ask that privacy is given to Marc’s family during this time of grief.”

 

When Bernier was hospitalised with Covid-19, three weeks ago, WNDB operations manager Mark McKinney told local media: “If you’ve listened to his show, you’ve heard him talk about how anti-vaccine he is on the air.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/29/conservative-radio-host-anti-vaxxer-dies-covid-marc-bernier

 

Edited May 14 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[frank83628]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The "24 studies" you reference, which were cited earlier in this thread, showed how COVID vaccines reduce the risk of Long COVID in recipients. And said nothing about "this would never happen again."

 

Those studies had/have nothing to do with what you're posting about here.

 

But indeed, ever since the beginning of the pandemic, health authorities have been clear that COVID vaccines could have rare and sometimes serious side effects. But that those, while regrettable, pale in comparison to the tens of millions of lives the vaccines saved from COVID.

 

 

not sure i remember hearing it quite like that.

safe and effective. was what were were told, adverse effects never mentioned on msm whatsoever, anyone that did suggest that was shot down, attacked and banned from social media, dont remember any politicians warning of adverse effects either

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, frank83628 said:

not sure i remember hearing it quite like that.

safe and effective. was what were were told, adverse effects never mentioned on msm whatsoever, anyone that did suggest that was shot down, attacked and banned from social media, dont remember any politicians warning of adverse effects either

 

 

There's apparently a lot you don't remember.

 

By the way, "safe and effective" doesn't mean, and has never meant, a medication has no side effects, serious or otherwise. It means the benefits of taking it have been found to outweigh the risks, which was the case here.

 

From the CDC circa 2020:

 

3. Like any medicine, vaccines can cause side effects. However, serious adverse events from vaccines are rare.

Most side effects from vaccines, such as pain and redness at the injection site, are mild and go away quickly on their own. Serious adverse events are rare. If you have questions or concerns about a vaccine, talk with your healthcare provider. Learn more about the safety of recommended vaccines.

 

Page last reviewed: February 25, 2020

 

https://www.cdc.gov/patientsafety/features/vaccine-safety.html

 

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Vaccines and vaccine safety

5 December 2023

 

Vaccines must be proven safe and effective in large Phase III clinical trials to prove that they meet internationally agreed benchmarks for safety and efficacy before they are introduced in national immunization programs.

 

Independent reviews of the efficacy and safety evidence are required by WHO for each vaccine candidate, including regulatory review and approval in the country where the vaccine is manufactured, before WHO considers it approved for emergency use listing or prequalification.

 

Billions of people have received the COVID-19 vaccine to date, showing that the benefits of COVID-19 vaccinations outweigh the risks of getting ill with COVID-19."

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/coronavirus-disease-(covid-19)-vaccines

 

[jayboy]

52 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

adverse effects never mentioned on msm whatsoever, anyone that did suggest that was shot down, attacked and banned from social media, dont remember any politicians warning of adverse effects either

 

Nonsense.There was extensive discussion of adverse effects particularly with AZ.Those with some appreciation of statistics and proportionality understood the position very well - see previous post giving seat belts in cars as an example.Others (those of the deniers who had not died or become seriously ill) succumbed to paranoia and conspiracy theories and some even perpetuated their strange perception to this very day.

[frank83628]

12 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Nonsense.There was extensive discussion of adverse effects particularly with AZ.Those with some appreciation of statistics and proportionality understood the position very well - see previous post giving seat belts in cars as an example.Others (those of the deniers who had not died or become seriously ill) succumbed to paranoia and conspiracy theories and some even perpetuated their strange perception to this very day.

i guess that might depend omn coiuntry and news media

[Amethyst]

A moderation advisory to those posting here, as recent posting has gone far astray:

 

The topic of this thread is the following:

 

Thai Medics Warn of Covid Surge with 11 New Deaths

 

The OP post in the thread is not chiefly about COVID vaccines. The thread is entirely about COVID cases, hospitalizations and deaths in Thailand, and not about vaccine litigation in the U.S. or the U.K.

 

So, any further posting in this thread should stick to the general Thailand-related topic of the thread.  Further off-topic posts here will be removed.

 

[Puccini]

18 hours ago, stoner said:

...why no lockdowns or mask mandate in thailand for the ongoing and only getting worse pm2.5 issue ? a far greater threat than covid and has killed so many more than covid ever will.  

 

I have been wondering the same. Could it be that people dying from air pollution require treatment in an intensive care unit (ICU) or occupying other hospital beds to a much lesser extent than people dying from Covid-19? I don't know.

[Miami007]

On 5/13/2024 at 4:15 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The COVID vaccines somewhat reduce transmission, especially in the months after vaccination, and more reduces people's risks of getting sick from, hospitalized because of, or dying from COVID.

 

If Thailand had done a better job of keeping its population, or even just the most at risk people, up-to-date with the newest COVID vaccinations, we likely wouldn't be talking about new weekly COVID hospitalizations here having tripled since mid March.

 

Updated COVID-19 vaccines effective against variants, new data show

February 01, 2024

 

The updated COVID-19 vaccines were approximately 54% effective against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection and offered protection against JN.1 and XBB viral lineages, according to early estimates published Thursday by the CDC.

...

Overall, VE was 54% (95% CI, 46%-60%) among people who had recently received an updated COVID-19 vaccine. The researchers found that VE for people aged 18 to 49 years was 57% (95% CI, 48%-65%) and for people aged 50 years and older was 46% (95% CI, 31%-58%).

 

https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20240201/updated-covid19-vaccines-effective-against-variants-new-data-show

 

Latest COVID vaccine, antivirals lower risk of severe COVID-19, new data show

March 8, 2024

 

According to new research from the Cleveland Clinic published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases, updated COVID-19 vaccines—the monovalent (single-strain) XBB.1.5 shots—reduced the risk of severe COVID-19 by 31%, and the use of antiviral drugs reduced the risk of severe disease by 42%.

...

In patients aged 65 years or older, the HR was 0.66 (95% CI, 0.55 to 0.79) for XBB.1.5 vaccination (34% protection) and 0.52 (0.45 to 0.60) for antiviral treatment (48% protection). In contrast, in patients aged younger than 65 years, the HR was 0.82 (0.59 to 1.15) for XBB.1.5 vaccination (18% protection) and 0.69 (0.57 to 0.82) for antiviral treatment (31% protection).

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/latest-covid-vaccine-antivirals-lower-risk-severe-covid-19-new-data-show

 

 

In the USA very few have received boosters from 2022-2024 - and hardly anyone is wearing masks in public or is isolating themselves. But there is no Covid panic and nobody is talking about shortages of hospital beds. There are certainly infected people- but if the media is not getting their knickers in a twist, people just carry on with life.

 

By now, the majority of the population had Covid at least once and survived. Data of deaths by age-group clearly shows that there was limited danger for anyone under 60.

Data and experience also showed that vaccination did not prevent infection and did not prevent onward transmission.  That was fairly evident when Omicron started in late 2021.

 

It is also a fact, that vaccination was originally presented as "protecting the vaccinated person and preventing transmission" (and therefore society).  That changed to "preventing death and serious illness".

 

There is no reason to panic and shut down the economy or life. The article also does a poor job providing context- how do these numbers compare to the peak of Covid?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Miami007 said:

It is also a fact, that vaccination was originally presented as "protecting the vaccinated person and preventing transmission" (and therefore society).  That changed to "preventing death and serious illness".

 

The original COVID vaccines were never clinical trialed or approved on the basis of being able to limit/reduce transmission. That was never part of the original expectation or basis for approval, although it did in fact occur in the early going of the pandemic with the early versions of the COVID virus.

 

The vaccines were trialed and approved on the basis of being able to limit/reduce symptomatic COVID illness, which in fact they did, and continue to do...although these days, after multiple variants, the effectiveness is more toward limiting/preventing hospitalization and death from COVID, and that certainly ought to be people's highest priority and expectation.

 

The false claim of the COVID vaccines being approved or originally promised to prevent transmission is a common anti-vaxer falsehood.

 

Fact Check: Preventing transmission never required for COVID vaccines’ initial approval; Pfizer vax did reduce transmission of early variants

By Reuters Fact Check

February 13, 2024

 

"To get emergency approval, companies needed to show that the vaccines were safe and prevented vaccinated people from getting ill. They did not have to show that the vaccine would also prevent people from spreading the virus to others. Once the vaccines were on the market, independent researchers in multiple countries studied people who received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and did show that vaccination reduced transmission of variants circulating at the time."

,,,

At the time governments were negotiating advance purchases of vaccine in 2020, the European Medicines Agency had already laid out requirements for an application for conditional marketing authorization of a COVID-19 vaccine, clinical trials were underway, and tests to show the vaccine prevented onward transmission were not required of any vaccine maker.

...

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration laid out similar expectations for vaccine trials in June of 2020, and did not require data regarding the effect on virus transmission."

 

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/preventing-transmission-never-required-covid-vaccines-initial-approval-pfizer-2024-02-12/

 

[dinsdale]

I've been told that the BMA are having a big meeting tomorrow, May 28, to discuss the possible closure of schools. I truly hope this madness does not occur.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

I've been told that the BMA are having a big meeting tomorrow, May 28, to discuss the possible closure of schools.

 

You made a similar claim here weeks ago, and nothing happened on that since then. Public schools in Thailand reopened for the new academic year as scheduled earlier this month.

 

May 8:

 

Quote

I was told a couple of weeks ago by someone very high up in a provincial government health dept that the Mayors of Bangkok and Samut Sakhon are keeping a close eye on infection rates and may delay school opennings.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1326823-expect-increase-in-covid-19-cases-as-school-term-approaches/?do=findComment&comment=18900393

 

That didn't happen:

 

May 22:

 

Quote

Students returned to school for the new academic year last week

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1327862-new-school-year-same-old-story-thailand’s-education-system-‘stuck-in-the-past’/

 

 

[dinsdale]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You made a similar claim here weeks ago, and nothing happened on that since then. Public schools in Thailand reopened for the new academic year as scheduled earlier this month.

 

May 8:

 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1326823-expect-increase-in-covid-19-cases-as-school-term-approaches/?do=findComment&comment=18900393

 

That didn't happen:

 

May 22:

 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1327862-new-school-year-same-old-story-thailand’s-education-system-‘stuck-in-the-past’/

 

 

I think I said back then they were thinking about. Tomorrow there is a meeting going to happen. Again this comes from someone high up in a provincial government. I truly hope sanity prevails.

Edited May 27 by dinsdale

[Robert Paulson]

The way that everyone should read that number is 11 people died and they had covid. That does not mean, emphasize not, that they died of covid. 
 

We’ve been doing medical work for quite some time now. In all seriousness what are the standards for cause of death. Like in those autopsy scenes you see in movies, they always say “cause of death was blunt blow to head”. Why don’t they do that with covid? Is there some big mystery here? 

[Robert Paulson]

I 100% guruntee you if one of those deaths for example was a person on his last legs dying of lung cancer or something, and he had covid, they’d categorize it as a covid death. But… it wouldn’t be now would it

[Robert Paulson]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

I've been told that the BMA are having a big meeting tomorrow, May 28, to discuss the possible closure of schools. I truly hope this madness does not occur.

My (very plausible) theory is the teacher representatives get to have their say. Just like during the heat of covid. And what do we all think their opinion is going to be? Oh yeah let’s have a month or two off work and get a paid vacation from these little monsters we normally have to deal with. Another big mystery of the world, solved. 

[Robert Paulson]

7 hours ago, Miami007 said:

In the USA very few have received boosters from 2022-2024 - and hardly anyone is wearing masks in public or is isolating themselves. But there is no Covid panic and nobody is talking about shortages of hospital beds. There are certainly infected people- but if the media is not getting their knickers in a twist, people just carry on with life.

 

By now, the majority of the population had Covid at least once and survived. Data of deaths by age-group clearly shows that there was limited danger for anyone under 60.

Data and experience also showed that vaccination did not prevent infection and did not prevent onward transmission.  That was fairly evident when Omicron started in late 2021.

 

It is also a fact, that vaccination was originally presented as "protecting the vaccinated person and preventing transmission" (and therefore society).  That changed to "preventing death and serious illness".

 

There is no reason to panic and shut down the economy or life. The article also does a poor job providing context- how do these numbers compare to the peak of Covid?

 

They sold the vaccine with literal “95% effective”. Another big surprise, just what everyone wanted to hear. The mysteries of the universe all being solved here on aseasnnow. Nice post btw 

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said:

My (very plausible) theory is the teacher representatives get to have their say. Just like during the heat of covid. And what do we all think their opinion is going to be? Oh yeah let’s have a month or two off work and get a paid vacation from these little monsters we normally have to deal with. Another big mystery of the world, solved. 

No. The last thing teachers want is school closures. 

[Robert Paulson]

On 5/14/2024 at 10:45 AM, jayboy said:

 

Nonsense.There was extensive discussion of adverse effects particularly with AZ.Those with some appreciation of statistics and proportionality understood the position very well - see previous post giving seat belts in cars as an example.Others (those of the deniers who had not died or become seriously ill) succumbed to paranoia and conspiracy theories and some even perpetuated their strange perception to this very day.

You’ve got a lot of learning to do my friend. There was a lot of censoring going on. Just because you didn’t notice it because you were parroting pharma talking points doesn’t make it untrue. And btw for your info the side who does the censoring is never the correct side, as history has taught us

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

They sold the vaccine with literal “95% effective”.

 

And that was the accurate figure for preventing symptomatic COVID illness that was found from the COVID vaccine clinical trials, and from some subsequent studies once the vaccines were first deployed.

 

"In December 2020, Pfizer-BioNTech’s Phase 3 clinical data for its original vaccine showed 95% efficacy for preventing symptomatic COVID."

...

Moderna uses the same mRNA technology as Pfizer-BioNTech and had a similarly high efficacy at preventing symptomatic disease when the companies applied for authorization."

 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

 

"In a multistate network of U.S. hospitals during January–March 2021, receipt of Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines was 94% effective against COVID-19 hospitalization among fully vaccinated adults and 64% effective among partially vaccinated adults aged ≥65 years."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7018e1.htm

 

 

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Yeah. Sure. Keep telling yourselves that. 
 

The teachers were who closed the schools imo. They used fear of infection etc as red herrings. Yet there was evidence the entire time school closures were unnecessary via Swedish model. 

I don't need to tell myself that. Thai teachers tell me that. Yep fear was definitetly part of the narrative and still is but teachers had nothing to do with previous school closures. School closures comes from the provincial govenors. 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

You’ve got a lot of learning to do my friend. There was a lot of censoring going on. Just because you didn’t notice it because you were parroting pharma talking points doesn’t make it untrue. And btw for your info the side who does the censoring is never the correct side, as history has taught us

😂..................R.P., the fly on the wall..........😂

[Robert Paulson]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

I don't need to tell myself that. Thai teachers tell me that. Yep fear was definitetly part of the narrative and still is but teachers had nothing to do with previous school closures. School closures comes from the provincial govenors. 

Well sure they will say that lol.

[Robert Paulson]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

I don't need to tell myself that. Thai teachers tell me that. Yep fear was definitetly part of the narrative and still is but teachers had nothing to do with previous school closures. School closures comes from the provincial govenors. 

This is yet another not very difficult one to figure. Does a group of people want a paid vacation or deal with the screaming kids? Is this seriously a discussion? The teachers will have influence, not saying they have the final call. And their influence will be biased and lean toward not being in the classroom. For obvious reasons. Teachers, despite what they tell you, don’t actually like going to work. We do all know this, right? 

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

This is yet another not very difficult one to figure. Does a group of people want a paid vacation or deal with the screaming kids? Is this seriously a discussion? The teachers will have influence, not saying they have the final call. And their influence will be biased and lean toward not being in the classroom. For obvious reasons. Teachers, despite what they tell you, don’t actually like going to work. We do all know this, right? 

Your negative opinions of teachers are just that. Yours. Teachers are educators and want to teach. They also know what damage was done due to the closure of schools.

[Felton Jarvis]

Yeah, let's crash the economy again. Billionaires will benefit greatly, only the poor will suffer.

[Robert Paulson]

5 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Your negative opinions of teachers are just that. Yours. Teachers are educators and want to teach. They also know what damage was done due to the closure of schools.

Do a little mind experiment for yourself and ask maybe 10,000 people if they want a month or two off work while being paid. Let me know your results. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

53 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

I 100% guruntee you if one of those deaths for example was a person on his last legs dying of lung cancer or something, and he had covid, they’d categorize it as a covid death. But… it wouldn’t be now would it

 

The Thai MoPH admitted early in the pandemic that a portion of their reported COVID deaths in that early period were died "with" COVID types...  They then (several years ago) changed / tightened their definition of what they would count as a COVID death to be a pretty narrow one.

 

From March 2022:

 

"Kiattiphum said the death report would be rewritten to separate patients with lung inflammation from those who did not have lung inflammation, and the reports would also state the main cause of death....

 

Kiattiphum unveiled the plan to review the report on Covid-19 fatalities after Deputy Prime Minister and Public Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul told reporters earlier in the day that he had consulted with senior officials of the ministry about daily reports on Covid-19 fatalities.

...

Anutin said the daily reports seemed to show that Covid-19 fatalities had increased but, he said, people, who died due to other causes or diseases should be separated from the Covid-19 fatality reports.

 

Anutin said the meeting discussed that when patients died while they were on a ventilator and died of lung inflammation caused by Covid-19 virus, they could be classified as Covid-19 deaths.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40013255

 

So the notion that officially reported COVID deaths reported by MoPH these days (two years later) aren't really COVID deaths isn't supported by any facts.

 

Edited May 27 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Moncul]

On 5/14/2024 at 8:46 PM, frank83628 said:

not sure i remember hearing it quite like that.

safe and effective. was what were were told, adverse effects never mentioned on msm whatsoever, anyone that did suggest that was shot down, attacked and banned from social media, dont remember any politicians warning of adverse effects either

 

That's because you probably didn't actually read any "MSM", preferring whatever fed your confirmation bias.

 

Quote

 

April 8, 2021
LONDON (AP) — British authorities recommended Wednesday that the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine not be given to adults under 30 where possible because of strengthening evidence that the shot may be linked to rare blood clots.
https://apnews.com/article/eu-rare-blood-clots-possibly-linked-astrazeneca-vaccine-1ec87a9b7f14f98e29962e9d055d27ed

 

 

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Do a little mind experiment for yourself and ask maybe 10,000 people if they want a month or two off work while being paid. Let me know your results. 

I'm a qualified teacher that teaches in a Thai school. I think my knowledge of teachers attitutes to school closures are somewhat more informed than yours.