British Pensioner Struggles with Frozen Pension in Thailand

[Mike Teavee]

13 minutes ago, bradiston said:

IPC? Can find multiple uses for this acronym but none that seems relevant. His research discussions? Any links to the video? I must have missed it.

UK Gov's International Pension Centre https://www.gov.uk/international-pension-centre

 

[Jiggo]

On 6/1/2024 at 6:16 PM, transam said:

They have a reciprocal agreement with the UK...🤗

Thailand doesn't..

Means nothing just an excuse for not paying 

I understand Canada has but pension is frozen there.

[Jiggo]

On 6/1/2024 at 9:31 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

The reason has been explained many times.

Not a reason it's just an excuse.

How come it's frozen in Canada

[bradiston]

12 minutes ago, Jiggo said:

Means nothing just an excuse for not paying 

I understand Canada has but pension is frozen there.

Canada is listed as being a reciprocal. Maybe ask the IPC? The International Pensions Centre? Maybe the list on gov.uk is out of date.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Jiggo said:

On 6/1/2024 at 9:31 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

The reason has been explained many times.

Not a reason it's just an excuse.

How come it's frozen in Canada

No it is the reason, same reason, it has been explained many times...reciprocal arrangements.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

IPC? Can find multiple uses for this acronym but none that seems relevant. His research discussions? Any links to the video? I must have missed it.

International Pensions Centre.   No, I do not have the AN link.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, Surasak said:

On 6/1/2024 at 9:08 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

No, they do not reduce state pensions, the payment remains at the amount paid before leaving the UK.

Prove me wrong, Lou.

I do not have to, look it up yourself, easy to do or call them.

[sabaiguy]

On 6/1/2024 at 12:54 AM, MrPhysio said:

The above is a quick response from me

Quick response?  Hate to see a long one.

[kiwikeith]

On 6/2/2024 at 9:58 AM, nglodnig said:

My wife has got a (miniscule) government pension for some years now living outside Thailand. What do you base this on? The pension she gets will buy a bowl of noodles I think.

Thais get a miserable pension  which you could not live on in Thailand, not worth transferring even if it were portable 

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, you're obviously not well aware enough to know that there was a court case suing the government over frozen pensions some years ago that was thrown out with a ruling that the policy was political and not discriminatory.  

I am well aware of the legal challenge which was initially brought on a human rights issue based on personal circumstances and the court ruling was at a personal level.

The court never ruled on the.legality of specific parts of the policy.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Where did I post that that is my belief?

every post

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, bradiston said:

Canada is listed as being a reciprocal. Maybe ask the IPC? The International Pensions Centre? Maybe the list on gov.uk is out of date.

When the agreement with Canada was made the Canadian pension couldn't be exported so the pension issue wasn't included. Some time later the Canadian legislation was amended to allow pensions to be exported but the UK has refused to revisit the agreement.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, Jiggo said:

Not a reason it's just an excuse.

How come it's frozen in Canada

When reciprocal agreements came about the UK government created a 2 tier arrangement, those that could and those that couldn't.

Effectively a discriminatory mesure that saved them money.

[nglodnig]

1 hour ago, kiwikeith said:

even if it were portable 

She got paid this while living OUTSIDE Thailand for her teaching work in a Thai temple in Europe. 

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

 

As expected, nothing, and I never ever suggested or said ii was fair. I posted the facts snd history, nothing else, so stop trying to put false words in my mouth, because you can’t support your fake claim that I support discrimination.

As I said before I post facts, what I clearly can’t do is help you understand those real facts. 

 

Have a good day, I out of this, but remember the old saying when in a hole stop digging.

 

You posted a distorted history that reflected an obvious point of view.

More omissions that Battersea Power Station.

[bradiston]

26 minutes ago, sandyf said:

When the agreement with Canada was made the Canadian pension couldn't be exported so the pension issue wasn't included. Some time later the Canadian legislation was amended to allow pensions to be exported but the UK has refused to revisit the agreement.

I'm not Canadian so haven't much interest but maybe a Canadian pensioner might follow this up. Or a British OAP looking to retire there. It should at least be taken off the gov.uk list.

[Georgealbert]

39 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You posted a distorted history that reflected an obvious point of view.

More omissions that Battersea Power Station.

Really, can you please tell me how I distorted the history?
 

I also posted a link to the House the Commons briefing paper, if that incorrect also?

 

You accused me of discrimination, which I don’t have, then failed to back up your claims, and decided to talk about irrelevant items, like votes for women and gay men, which has zero to do with state pensions.

 

Here is a statement from me - “I do not support frozen pensions and have never stated I do.”

 

So please stop embarrassing yourself, by trying to speak for me.

 

I post real facts, with credible links about the history of the state pension, but sorry I am unable to help you understand those facts. Try to read my posts, instead of putting you distorted spin on them and making clearly false assumptions, or do you just suffer alethophobia.

Edited June 3 by Georgealbert

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

You posted a distorted history that reflected an obvious point of view.

More omissions that Battersea Power Station.

Emissions

[mrfill]

How much would she receive if she was still in the UK? - £678 a month

[vukovar77]

18 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Best to go through (a Western based) broker as there are many individual variables: age, pre-existing conditions etc.

Well,I am 67  and brokers (a western based) does not offer me anything acceptable for Thailand (very expensive ,avoid any real issue,etc.)

I think it is much,much better that I put in my account for emergency that sum they want per month(500-900 USD average per month).

I am not too old and I am in a pretty good condition,but ins. company are so greedy if you are in LOS.

[soalbundy]

On 6/1/2024 at 10:10 AM, sidneybear said:

That's sad. There's no reason, other than cruelty, for the British government to freeze overseas pensions of people who have paid National Insurance all their lives.

Pensions are a benefit, not a right in the UK. Your contributions pay for the old folk they are not contributions for your own old age, your pension is paid by the contributions of the dwindling number of young workers (demographics suck). Without immigration of young workers there will be no pensions in the future.

She will get no help in the UK, she's been away too long, she will have to wait around 2 years to get benefits although her pension will jump up but where would she stay?

[ChaiyaTH]

On 6/1/2024 at 12:04 PM, DaLa said:

Would it make more sense to lobby the Thai government to enter into a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK government. An increase in all those 'frozen' pensions would result in £ entering the country and ฿ in the economy. If the Philippines have the facility/legislation then it can't be rocket science for it to be introduced here.

Watch out what you suggest, the next step would be to share all financial information and be able to tax as good too. What you say will happen sooner or later anyway, they want to make this 'One world system' anyway. A basic wage for every human and then additional is up to your performance.

Edited June 4 by ChaiyaTH

[claffey]

Some European countries don't pay any pension to its citizens resident outside the EU. So people from the UK are actually lucky to get anything at all. 14,000 baht is what many Thai families survive on per month so if she has a roof over her head she should be able to survive. Medical costs are probably the main issue at that age. Her son will just have to take care of her. This is normal in Asian society, for kids to take care of parents, so after being here for decades they should understand that. 

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, vukovar77 said:

Well,I am 67  and brokers (a western based) does not offer me anything acceptable for Thailand (very expensive ,avoid any real issue,etc.)

I think it is much,much better that I put in my account for emergency that sum they want per month(500-900 USD average per month).

I am not too old and I am in a pretty good condition,but ins. company are so greedy if you are in LOS.

Which brokers have you tried? And what do you consider "acceptable"?

 

Expat plans for Thailand are usually not more costly than expat plans for elsewhere.

 

At 67 you can certainly get a plan for less than 500 a month. More like 300 a month, if you take a 500 - 1,000 deductible. Premiums will, however, rise when you hit 70 and again when you hit 74-75.

 

The problem with putting money aside each month now ids thta odds are you'll need more than you have well before the amount has reached suitable level. If you were say 30-40, and coupled it with at least accident insurance, then it would have a better chance.

[bradiston]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Which brokers have you tried? And what do you consider "acceptable"?

 

Expat plans for Thailand are usually not more costly than expat plans for elsewhere.

 

At 67 you can certainly get a plan for less than 500 a month. More like 300 a month, if you take a 500 - 1,000 deductible. Premiums will, however, rise when you hit 70 and again when you hit 74-75.

 

The problem with putting money aside each month now ids thta odds are you'll need more than you have well before the amount has reached suitable level. If you were say 30-40, and coupled it with at least accident insurance, then it would have a better chance.

And what is the cover for such a trifling premium?

[vukovar77]

13 minutes ago, bradiston said:

And what is the cover for such a trifling premium?

Cigna.Now AXA(better option).But there is an another problem,they do not want to cover pre-conditions AND MY REAL HEALTH problems.

For 400-500 per month you can get almost nothing .

I can use state hospitals here(I can speak Thai-Thai wife),so I pay regulary and prices are OK.I am from EU and now I try to get state obligatory insurance for "third country"(much cheaper and cover much more )!

I do not know for other expats,but when we are over 65 ,it is very hard to get proper health insurance here.For major health problems I will fly back to EU.

Edited June 4 by vukovar77

[vukovar77]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

And what is the cover for such a trifling premium?

Almost nothing.Nothing that matters !

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

And what is the cover for such a trifling premium?

Usually 500k or 1 million US. Which is more than ample for Thailand. 

 

If you consider around $3,600 a year to be a "trifling premium"  for cover with 1000 deductible and if you have no pre-existing cinfitions then you should have no trouble getting a good expat policy. 

 

As noted premiums will increase especiaslly after 70 and again after 75. Will indeed be around 5-6,000 a year by age 75.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Usually 500k or 1 million US. Which is more than ample for Thailand. 

 

If you consider around $3,600 a year to be a "trifling premium"  for cover with 1000 deductible and if you have no pre-existing cinfitions then you should have no trouble getting a good expat policy. 

 

As noted premiums will increase especiaslly after 70 and again after 75. Will indeed be around 5-6,000 a year by age 75.

You never mentioned it was $! I'm 74. I pay 10,401 THB pm and get $400k IP only cover and pre-existing covered (afib) after 12 months moratorium. I'm not going to mention who it's with as it sets off a whole thread of arguments. You'll probably know who.

[GarryP]

13 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

Thais get a miserable pension  which you could not live on in Thailand, not worth transferring even if it were portable 

600 Baht a month from 60 to 70 years old. It increases a little bit from 70 to 80. If you get the Social Security pension, which I will be drawing in a few months, the current maximum is about Baht 5,700 per month. But getting the latter means you will not get the former, but not much of a loss.