Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[lordgrinz]

8 hours ago, Lorry said:

Thx for posting.

I just read it.

Nothing new, except they really mean it.

 

For me, this would probably be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Pollution already means I won't spend the EU winter here anymore - but it's a bit weird to spend only the EU summer here. 

Ever increasing bureaucracy (online 90 days never working,  now TM 30 again, soon ETA...) ... this used to be a country where I never saw a bureacrat in my first 10 years, that was very nice.

It's not the small amount of taxes I might have to pay. It's the amount of time I waste with bureaucracy. 

 

 

I'm wondering how fast they plan to get it up and running, as it is now the new changes on remittances for this year have people and RD employees scratching their heads. I would think it would make more sense to see how that pans out first for a few years, or suspend that change altogether and go straight to the WorldWide income method. 

[chang50]

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

I'm wondering how fast they plan to get it up and running, as it is now the new changes on remittances for this year have people and RD employees scratching their heads. I would think it would make more sense to see how that pans out first for a few years, or suspend that change altogether and go straight to the WorldWide income method. 

Exactly especially given multiple expats me included have been refused TIN numbers already under the old system.

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

it would make more sense

Agreed.

Unfortunately,  bureaucrats all over the world don't always do what makes sense. 

[Puccini]

8 hours ago, tomkenet said:

From the article in BP

"

Previously, if an individual met the 180-day tax resident requirement and had foreign income, they paid personal income tax on that income only if it was brought into the country within the year it was earned.

 

This rule was revised effective from Jan 1, 2024. Tax is now payable on foreign income regardless of when it is brought into the country. To give an example, Mr A sold shares in an overseas company in 2020, realised a capital gain and banked the money in an overseas account. If he brings the proceeds from that capital gain into Thailand in 2024, he must report it as assessable income when filing a tax return.

"

 

Seems like the writer have missed P.O.162.

 

 

Inerest and dividends received are clearly income, but is the profit made with the sale of shares really considered income in Thailand for tax purposes even when stock trading is not don on a commercial basis?

 

Edited September 7 by Puccini

[Dogmatix]

17 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

BangkokPost just posted again about the Revenue Department drafting law changes to move to taxing WorldWide income, the Director General of the Revenue Department seems to be Hellbent on passing this nonsense.

 

The quote of the RD chief didn't say whether she thought the government agreed with her idea of global tax, which involves legislation,  or what year she hoped to introduce it. She said the amendment was being drafted but amending Section 41 to cover global income would only take about 5 minutes.  Probably a lot of politicians have corruption money salted away in offshore accounts and might not like the idea.

 

Theoretically they would get rid of last year's reinterpretation  that made remittances taxable, if the income was earned prior to 2024, as the two systems are contradictory. They can't tax income earned abroad and then tax it again on remittance. But cancelling the remittance tax complete would give a free pass to income earned abroad from 1 Jan 2024 till whenever the start date for global tax might be.  They might include a transitory provision to tax that income on remittance. 

 

It still leaves a gaping loophole for wealthy Thais like Thaksin who can use family offices to manage their wealth offshore or at least an offshore corporate structure.  Any income earned in the corporate would only taxable in Thailand, if the Thai resident beneficiary took a dividend from the company.  Overwise as income and capital gains just accumulate in the offshore company. This is obviously grossly unfair to less wealthy Thai residents who can't afford oversas corporate structures but I can't see people like Thaksin wanting to have the corporate veil lifted to tax the Thai corporate owners.  They can also set up offshore loans if they want to transfer cash to Thailand tax free instead of taking Thai taxable dividends. 

[redwood1]

What ever happens I bet Thaksin and the rest of the multi billionaire Thais dont  pay so much as a single baht of their vast wealth to any new tax schemes that are being cooked up..

 

Edited September 7 by redwood1

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

What ever happens I bet Thaksin and the rest of the multi billionaire Thais dont  pay so much as a single baht of their vast wealth to any new tax schemes that are being cooked up..

 

This leaves us with the less than 180 days a year residences. I encourage everyone to consider it. We don't want to pay into a deeply corrupt system.

[Guderian]

16 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

This leaves us with the less than 180 days a year residences. I encourage everyone to consider it. We don't want to pay into a deeply corrupt system.

 

I might not mind paying tax in Thailand if I got anything back in return but, as it is, I can own the pot that I piss in but not the square foot of land that it sits on. They'll have to do a lot better than that before I start handing over my offshore, tax-free moolah.

[BKKKevin]

8 minutes ago, Guderian said:

 

I might not mind paying tax in Thailand if I got anything back in return but, as it is, I can own the pot that I piss in but not the square foot of land that it sits on. They'll have to do a lot better than that before I start handing over my offshore, tax-free moolah.

At a minimum we should be allowed to visit a National Park at the Thai rate… 

[redwood1]

39 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

This leaves us with the less than 180 days a year residences. I encourage everyone to consider it. We don't want to pay into a deeply corrupt system.

 

Even after living here for years the vastness of the corruption still surprises me (even though it should not)...

I think most expats have accepted things as they are...But I also think most expats have draw the line when it comes to the broken system meddling,and flip flopping around with their own personal financial affairs...

[webfact]

Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

 

Courtesy of Revenue Dept.

 

The Thai Revenue Department is currently drafting legislation to tax the overseas income of individuals residing in Thailand.

 

Full story: https://aseannow.com/topic/1337596-its-happening-law-to-tax-overseas-income-now-in-progress/

 

 

[sidneybear]

On 9/7/2024 at 4:07 PM, Dogmatix said:

It still leaves a gaping loophole for wealthy Thais like Thaksin who can use family offices to manage their wealth offshore or at least an offshore corporate structure.  Any income earned in the corporate would only taxable in Thailand, if the Thai resident beneficiary took a dividend from the company.

You don't have to be rich to set up an offshore company.

[Jerry777]

I worked in the government here for a year. All of them used that small salary for basics and had other businesses outside of that job. They all came to work 2 hrs late, had a 2 hr lunch and went home early. Apparently this idea is to help them ad income to their challenging lifestyles.

[Jerry777]

US Social security will not be taxed

[StayinThailand2much]

On 6/5/2024 at 3:16 PM, johng said:

That seems totally unworkable  crazy and unjust !

 

Spot on. They couldn't even figure out which foreigners stay more than 180 days in a tax year in Thailand, or why would we have to fill out numerous forms all the time, even though it's all in their computer systems.

[sandyf]

On 6/8/2024 at 3:53 PM, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Because the not-so-affluent foreigners are swimming in the same river - it's called collateral damage. But there is hope and time for the government finding a creek dedicated to the less fortunate pensioners or old-age individuals.

There may be a clue in a statements from the original article which did raise the issue of pensions but yet the text regarding Section 40 makes no mention of pensions.

The current text of Section 40 does does refer to pensions, maybe an amendment is being considered.

 

"Section 41 specifies that individuals who have assessable income under Section 40 in the previous tax year from duties, work or business conducted in Thailand, or from the activities of an employer in Thailand or from assets located in Thailand, must pay taxes according to the provisions of this section, regardless of whether the income is paid within or outside the country.

Please credit and share this article with others using this link: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2860812/law-to-tax-income-from-overseas-in-the-works. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Bangkok Post PCL. All rights reserved."

[tomkenet]

As there are no more news about this I find it hard to believe it can be implemented for the 2025 tax-year.

 

 

[mania]

Check this video from the 3 min mark

I always thought this is the way it would go too.

It will likely be tied to visa renewals & it will be on you to prove why your incoming monies for past year are not taxable

 

Many always said no way would Thailand be able to check it all & I always thought they won't have to we will 😉 

 

 

 

[Presnock]

39 minutes ago, mania said:

Check this video from the 3 min mark

I always thought this is the way it would go too.

It will likely be tied to visa renewals & it will be on you to prove why your incoming monies for past year are not taxable

 

Many always said no way would Thailand be able to check it all & I always thought they won't have to we will 😉 

 

 

 

The TAX man is wrong about "every tax- resident in Thailand must get a Thai tax number" that is not correct, according to the Thai Revenue directions "one must obtain a thai tax number within 60 days of have assessable income remitted into Thailand.  I won't have and by following that RD instruction, I do not have to obtain a tax id number YET!  If they change the law this time then I will follow the law although I still will not have any assessable  income!

[chiang mai]

54 minutes ago, mania said:

Check this video from the 3 min mark

I always thought this is the way it would go too.

It will likely be tied to visa renewals & it will be on you to prove why your incoming monies for past year are not taxable

 

Many always said no way would Thailand be able to check it all & I always thought they won't have to we will 😉 

 

 

 

We've been through this before, the video is from Issan lawyers. If you want the latest reliable tax information news, visit Big 4 accountants web sites or the TRD. Youtube videos are simple unreliable.

Edited October 20 by chiang mai

[TheAppletons]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

We've been through this before, the video is from Issan lawyers. If you want the latest reliable tax information news, visit Big 4 accountants web sites or the TRD. Youtube videos are simple unreliable.

 

  The poster to whom you are replying lives in Georgia, USA.  

 

  He couldn't hack it in Thailand but logs on here occasionally to slag on those of us who live here.  

 

  The vast majority of his posts are during burning season when he tells us how much smarter he is than everyone else for moving away from CM to the US.

 

  I'd put him on ignore but I'm entertained by his ignorance and self-congratulatory tunnel vision.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  The poster to whom you are replying lives in Georgia, USA.  

 

  He couldn't hack it in Thailand but logs on here occasionally to slag on those of us who live here.  

 

  The vast majority of his posts are during burning season when he tells us how much smarter he is than everyone else for moving away from CM to the US.

 

  I'd put him on ignore but I'm entertained by his ignorance and self-congratulatory tunnel vision.

Living in Georgia warrants anyone being placed on ignore.

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, mania said:

Check this video from the 3 min mark

I always thought this is the way it would go too.

It will likely be tied to visa renewals & it will be on you to prove why your incoming monies for past year are not taxable

 

Many always said no way would Thailand be able to check it all & I always thought they won't have to we will 😉 

 

 

 

 

at 4:54

 

"....any income you bring in, that your are earning from overseas, that you're sending yourself from investments, sales of houses, etc., you have to declare, irrespective of whether you've been taxed in your home countries or not.  You then have to prove you have a bilateral agreement, and prove you have been taxed on it.  Then the revenue departments, and for example HRMC in the UK, will speak with one another and they'll come to a determination on what taxes, if any....."

 

Hahahhahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get me this guy's number.

I want him doing my taxes.

Money is no object.

No, give him the keys to my portfolio!

To da moon, Alice!

[Gknrd]

Ever changing retirement rules of Thailand, definitely where I want to spend my last days... Sitting on forums trying to figure out what is going on and the daily changes... 

[oldcpu]

12 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

Ever changing retirement rules of Thailand, definitely where I want to spend my last days... Sitting on forums trying to figure out what is going on and the daily changes... 

 

I would recommend not losing sleep over it, unless your income is large and you managed to structure your foreign income such that it comes from a tax free environment.

 

I speculate the vast majority of us obtain foreign sourced income (such as pensions) from a country with a DTA with Thailand, and for many (albeit not all) of those DTA, the pension (or incomes) has already been taxed.  ....  

 

In the case of Canada, the pensions from Canada are taxed in Canada (and not in Thailand). 

 

However I believe in the case of Germany, the pensions are not taxed in Germany if one is not a German tax resident but rather if one is a Thai tax resident then there is a risk the German pensions could be taxed in Thailand dependent IF and dependent HOW any such speculative law is implemented).  But I am not certain.  Is any one certain?

Edited October 20 by oldcpu

[Puccini]

10 hours ago, mania said:

Check this video from the 3 min mark...

 

Pay attention to how he pronounces Pattaya. It may be silly, but just for this alone, I wouldn't choose him as my tax advisor.

[Presnock]

14 hours ago, chiang mai said:

We've been through this before, the video is from Issan lawyers. If you want the latest reliable tax information news, visit Big 4 accountants web sites or the TRD. Youtube videos are simple unreliable.

same ol' same ol'.  Until the Thai Revenue Dept puts out some final tax forms this 2024 with any "new" changes, and if tax laws changed and needs parliament approval, then we wait until we see the final in the Gazette.  Every time one sees a webinar by folks, even sometimes associated witht the revenue dept, we hear possiblities of some change "maybe" but it just seems everything is "under discussion" still.  I did read that some rich senior folks are not too happy either with these earlier changes to the tax laws.  They are more likely to be affected than the expats, But TIT so no one really knows anything actual yet.

[chiang mai]

10 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Ever changing retirement rules of Thailand, definitely where I want to spend my last days... Sitting on forums trying to figure out what is going on and the daily changes... 

As I recall you made your decision to leave Thailand a long time ago and are currently sitting in a Canadian wilderness somewhere!

[chiang mai]

54 minutes ago, Presnock said:

same ol' same ol'.  Until the Thai Revenue Dept puts out some final tax forms this 2024 with any "new" changes, and if tax laws changed and needs parliament approval, then we wait until we see the final in the Gazette.  Every time one sees a webinar by folks, even sometimes associated witht the revenue dept, we hear possiblities of some change "maybe" but it just seems everything is "under discussion" still.  I did read that some rich senior folks are not too happy either with these earlier changes to the tax laws.  They are more likely to be affected than the expats, But TIT so no one really knows anything actual yet.

Absolutely, Another day, another Youtube video of somebody trying to scare or cast doubt and persuade viewers they really should buy their invaluable professional service. 

 

 

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Absolutely, Another day, another Youtube video of somebody trying to scare or cast doubt and persuade viewers they really should buy their invaluable professional service. 

 

 

 

For once I agree with you....This frightens me...