Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Tonyfarang said:

Yes but they can buy land in their name, they have NHS - great insurance / health benefits / hospitals for free, they are entitled to retirement / pension, they pay the same prices on everything that UK citizens pay everywhere, they are most on permanent visas, they don't have 90 day reportings, and in 5 years they can get passport! Happy?

I don't think you really want repricicosity. 

Thai retirees in the US must invest 16 million baht in an American company to get a long term visa. 

US retirees in Thailand can get a long term visa for under $400 a year. 

 

[John Drake]

6 minutes ago, freeworld said:

You mean like this.

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/united-states-and-thailand-sign-agreement-to-share-tax-information/

 

I know in my home country the US works very close with our tax authorities to catch tax offenders from both countries.

 

This is what your link says: "Under the FATCA inter-governmental agreement signed today, Thailand will share information about accounts held by U.S. persons, and the U.S. will share information about accounts held by Thai persons."  It does not say that the US will share information about accounts held by 'U.S. persons.'"

[EVENKEEL]

Where's Mr L, he's missing out on a smashing good time here. 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, ChasingTheSun said:

Taxing worldwide income regardless of when/if remitted to Thailand would probably be a total game changer for most wealthy retired expats in Thailand.

 

If they are going to get taxed in Thailand as much as in a place like Europe, you may as well live somewhere on the Med in Europe(Spain, Portugal, Italy, France) with all the benefits of Europe.

 

This is an example of the calculus:

 

Pay 50k in taxes in Thailand and get NOTHING for it.

VS.

 

Pay 50k in taxes in Europe and get “free” quality healthcare, good schools, police and fire, good roads etc.

 

 

200 baht v 2000 baht an hour for a good massage. 

50 baht v 500 baht for a decent meal in a good restaurant. 

[freeworld]

2 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

 My money is on this ^^^^^

Probably apply for a tax residence certificate to apply for treaty benefits.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/form-6166-certification-of-us-tax-residency

[topt]

9 minutes ago, Trip Hop said:

 

I don't want to get in a debate about this as I don't know the finer technicalities with regards to terminology/status.  However, a quick search of the internet reveals the following:

 

"Non-dom" describes a UK resident whose permanent home - or domicile - for tax purposes is outside the UK. It refers to a person's tax status, and has nothing to do with their nationality, citizenship or resident status - although it can be affected by these factors.

Well I have just given you a practical example - IE me. You are/were confusing domicile with non-resident in relation to the person you replied to.

Also when quoting something as you have, etiquette (if not AN rules), say you are supposed to quote the link to the source of the info 

 

Likewise 

5 minutes ago, Thaindrew said:

Losing your UK domicile

Although my previous research agrees 100% with what you posted.

[Thaindrew]

5 minutes ago, ChasingTheSun said:

Taxing worldwide income regardless of when/if remitted to Thailand would probably be a total game changer for most wealthy retired expats in Thailand.

 

If they are going to get taxed in Thailand as much as in a place like Europe, you may as well live somewhere on the Med in Europe(Spain, Portugal, Italy, France) with all the benefits of Europe.

 

This is an example of the calculus:

 

Pay 50k in taxes in Thailand and get NOTHING for it.

VS.

 

Pay 50k in taxes in Europe and get “free” quality healthcare, good schools, police and fire, good roads etc.

 

 

 

The wealthy will always have options - LTR Visa, Offshore banking, Blind Trusts, or just regular travel so as not to hit 180 days in Thailand ....

[andre47]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

50 baht v 500 baht for a decent meal in a good restaurant. 

50 baht baht for a decent meal in a good restaurant. 

on which planet are you living? 555

[Presnock]

4 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

The usual opaque nonsense from the clowns in charge and their general ineptitude. This whole idea has trouble and difficulty written all over it, with so many negatives that can/will transpire if enforced. It's not just scaring away the very foreigners they want to attract, both workers (teachers/digital nomads/businesses etc.) and wealthy retirees, but what about the Thais working oversea and their remittances for the survival of families etc.? I forecast the locals getting the hump over this one too... might well be the final nail in the coffin for many too, just not worth it.

However, having said all that, it could end up on the books but not enforced once they realize how much damage is done and the resistance to it there is (from multiple quarters), like many other "laws" that are effectively ignored... but they have the optics of it being a "law" that can be selectively enforced if so needed.

well, reading the article in the Thai Examiner, it is a done thing now already and indicates that come 2025, ALL expats unless they have no assessable assets and who remit assessable funds to Thailand will need to obtain a tax id and file their taxes.  All the details on assessable income have yet to be published so...we continue waiting. But it seems a done thing already to me already. but no ARIA yet.
 

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

'A whole lot of money' maybe by your standards.

 

They are aspire to be another Singapore, not the giant asian benidorm that it currently is.

 

Thanksin will have done his homework while away so the changes will keep coming until many chuck the towel in.

 

 

Other countries throughout the world that belong to the OECD and is offices (such as Thailand who has applied for membership) are going through this same tax routine to see how it affects that country and the expats there.  I have read on other forums (but forget when and which) that some countries are ignoring pensions altogether - probably due to DTA's or too many different languages.  Before one decides to jump ship here, be sure to check possible landing countries to see if it will be better, worse or the same.  Best of luck to us all.

[MeePeeMai]

2 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Probably apply for a tax residence certificate to apply for treaty benefits.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/form-6166-certification-of-us-tax-residency

 

Thanks for the info freeworld, I was unaware of this and it may be useful (or required) when navigating Thai taxes for US citizens (though I doubt the Thai R.D. will even know what it is or be able to understand it properly). 

 

Heck, US Citizens and even tax accountants in the USA can't fully understand the IRS rules (way too complicated and extensive) but of course, it was designed this way - all part of the plan.

 

I hope it's not an annual requirement (i.e. we must get new one for each calendar year).  

[Eudaimonia]

I believe they will proceed with this change. Most countries tax worldwide income.

 

With CRS, Thai authorities already get reports from foreign financial institutions and can see how much they are supposedly missing out on when they only tax remitted income.

 

How successful this will be is a whole other story. I personally think it's fair that remitted funds are subject to income taxation (as double tax agreements permit). But I have no intention of paying 35% Thai income tax on my worldwide income when I receive practically nothing in return and cannot even vote here. Sorry.

 

However, I always follow laws, so if this proposal eventually becomes law, there needs to be a legal solution.

 

Short of moving out, I might simply sell most income-generating assets, such as dividend stocks, and replace them with accumulating ETFs that grow in value but do not generate any taxable income. Sometime in the future, it would be possible to move to a more favorable jurisdiction to be a tax resident there and cash out. There are many choices. For example, under specific conditions, Cyprus offers tax residency to people staying only 60 days and does not tax capital gains or dividends.

 

Sadly, in my case, these well-meaning tax initiatives seem to lead to a declining contribution to the Thai economy, not the other way around.

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, gearbox said:

I was actually surprised they were not planning to tax worldwide income, many countries do, one of the latest being Portugal from the beginning of 2024.

AS mentioned in the article...once the new govt came to power and saw that the coffers were empty and they had just promised everything except the moon for those votes, they decided to expand their tax base including the multitude of expats.  easy targets and as most Thais feel, all expats are rich and handsome.  best of luck to all....the Thais are only doing what most of those 130 countries a/w OECD are doing and everyone should be paying taxes to some country if they are earning money.

[MeePeeMai]

1 minute ago, Eudaimonia said:

Sadly, in my case, these well-meaning tax initiatives seem to lead to a declining contribution to the Thai economy, not the other way around.

 

Agree 100%

[Presnock]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

If you can easily stay out of the country 180 days a year or more, then that is a good idea (IF this change to the law is enacted and IF it applies to non-citizens. Both of these are still IFs).

 

For many of us with permanent homes here etc this is not an option.

 

The change is not going to apply to 2024. IF enacted the earliest it could take effect would be for 2025.

 

For those of us who are tax resident, IF this goes through, the timing of tax returns will indeed be a bit of a juggling act/headache.  I often do not receive all my US tax documents before March. Filing date for Thai returns is March 31.

IAW other article I have read says effective 2025 all expats in Thailand have to file for taxes...of course if one doesn't remit anything or has no ASSESSABLE funds then that is a moot point right now.  Good luck.

[Trip Hop]

7 minutes ago, topt said:

Well I have just given you a practical example - IE me. You are/were confusing domicile with non-resident in relation to the person you replied to.

Also when quoting something as you have, etiquette (if not AN rules), say you are supposed to quote the link to the source of the info 

 

Likewise 

Although my previous research agrees 100% with what you posted.

 

I can accept that I may have confused the two and I'm happy to admit it, as was clearly stated by myself not knowing the finer details in my last post.

 

It's a shame that you haven't acknowledged the same regarding your beliefs as stated?

 

Plenty of information available on the internet and rather petty to make a point of me not supplying a link when it's not really a niche subject.  Here goes just to keep you happy though!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32216346#:~:text="Non-dom" describes a,be affected by these factors.

 

Have a nice day!

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, andre47 said:

50 baht baht for a decent meal in a good restaurant. 

on which planet are you living? 555

OK, 100 baht v 1000.

I regularly go to a good Japanese restaurant for ramen noodles, Haichibaan. 89 baht. 

Actually, probably couldn't get Japanese food in Europe for 1000 baht. 

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

For those of us who are tax resident, IF this goes through, the timing of tax returns will indeed be a bit of a juggling act/headache.  I often do not receive all my US tax documents before March. Filing date for Thai returns is March 31.

I never file my taxes before March 31.

200 baht fine and no waiting time. 

You can also do it online. 

The Rd would have to double their staff if they wanted to assess all foreigners here! 

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, salavan said:

Sound like it

These as we have heard are international treaties between governments and to quit, either side has a time period in which to advise the other that they are quitting this treaty.  These treaties were not just thrown together as some countries i.e. the US for one will not allow any other country to tax their government pension nor social security.  For any country with a treaty, I doubt that they would carry things that far but...TIT and who knows.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, Presnock said:

IAW other article I have read says effective 2025 all expats in Thailand have to file for taxes...of course if one doesn't remit anything or has no ASSESSABLE funds then that is a moot point right now.  Good luck.

I have seen no official announcement to this effect. Just as yet unsubstantiated speculation.

 

Where exactly did you read this?

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, jonclark said:

So I guess that means all of the foreigners who are currently classed as 'guests' can now claim residency. I am surprised that the ultra-nationalists have not put the brakes on the whole idea of using the words foreigner and resident in the same sentence...

just remember that is "TAX" resident after 180 days.  Good luck

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

 ..expand the tax base by requiring platforms with an income of 1 billion baht or more to report their sources of income.

------------------------------

It means he is not interested in anyone's foreign income less than 1B THB/year.

Seemingly targeting mega corporation/super-super rich individuals.

What make you guys worry so much?

 

Any of the readers/posters here earns that much money each year

I certainly don't LOL.

 

This stupid article is another form of Click Bait; trying to draw readers' attention with the scary headline.

Nothing more than that.

suggest you read other articles too...not just this forum

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

There is some truth in that, with double tax agreements between countries. The problem is that if the tax paid is below the tax that would have been paid in Thailand, the Thai tax authorities will seek to recover the difference, 

 

If Thai tax would be 50,000, but you paid UK tax of 25,000, the Thai authorities will tax you 25,000 instead of 50,000. There will be some exemptions of course, but the whole system is going to get messy in the future. Big winners will be tax accountants. 

those are called "agents"

 

[rocketboy2]

23 minutes ago, andre47 said:

50 baht baht for a decent meal in a good restaurant. 

on which planet are you living? 555

 

As always, His on Planet apologist.

Nothing new. 

[Presnock]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I have seen no official announcement to this effect. Just as yet unsubstantiated speculation.

 

Where exactly did you read this?

TODAY THAI EXAMINER

[Dogmatix]

On 6/5/2024 at 4:34 PM, beammeup said:

So this only affects individuals with income over 1 billion Baht?

 

No. Unfortunately the Thaiger and Bkk Post both combined bits from two different press releases using the same phaseology about a billion baht platform.  The billion baht platform came from an unrelated press release from the finance ministry confirming that, following a cabinet resolution on 27 May the government will initiate legislation to impose a top up tax on subsidiaries of multinationals in Thailand that use transfer pricing to reduce their Thai tax rates. This is following the EU which imposes this tax on MNCs with total revenues of 750 million euros plus. A billion baht is a lot less than this but it was not clear, if the RD meant global turnover or turnover in Thailand. 

 

Thaiexaminer put out a far more coherent article here but they don't attribute quotes and it is not clear, if the commentary if from their own reporter or indirectly quoting Revenue Department officials.  What is important here is that Thaiexaminer claimed they want to impose global tax from 2025 which would be a tall order, given that it has not yet been approved by the cabinet and would have to be vetted by the Council of State and go through 3 readings in parliament, unless they choose the short cut route of a Royal Decree which is risky as parliament can theoretically overturn that later, since it has the right to review Royal Decrees retroactively, given the decrees bypass parliament. Since I can't find the original press release or comment from the Revenue Dept or finance ministry, I can't say how accurate this article is, particularly in the planned timeline.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/06/05/thai-taxman-now-plans-to-tax-foreigners-on-all-income-whether-it-is-remitted-to-the-kingdom-or-not/

[lordgrinz]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

As the Buddhists say, 

“Change is never painful, only resistance to change is painful.”

 

According to Buddhism, everything in human life, all objects, as well as all beings whether in heavenly or hellish or earthly realms in Buddhist cosmology, is always changing, inconstant, undergoes rebirth and redeath (Samsara). This impermanence is a source of dukkha.

So Buddhist are sheep, good to know.

[itsari]

54 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Where's Mr L, he's missing out on a smashing good time here. 

Still looking into the subject.

Will come back with a vengeance soon 

[Dogmatix]

34 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I never file my taxes before March 31.

200 baht fine and no waiting time. 

You can also do it online. 

The Rd would have to double their staff if they wanted to assess all foreigners here! 

 

Can do online but it is only in Thai and they give a week's grace after the 31 March deadline, then shut down the online filing and force you to do a hard copy filing. There is no clear logic to this, if folk are willing to pay the 200 baht fine to file online late.  I was caught by this, thinking I could file online late.  The result was I put myself to hours and hours of unnecessary work to claim tax credits from my Thai dividends that was worth a few hundred baht refund and had to compute the tax myself.  Filing online you can opt to have the TSD stock registry feed all your dividend details direct to the RD.  Click on an icon and in less than a minute all the dividends are shown with the tax credits neatly calculated. 

[jonclark]

38 minutes ago, Presnock said:

just remember that is "TAX" resident after 180 days.  Good luck

Duh....do you not understand sarcasm?  

 

As a Thai tax resident for over 25 years I have had plenty of luck, especially with my tax rebates which have been very generous.

Edited June 6 by jonclark