Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[TheAppletons]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 UK no DTA unfortunately 

 

  Really?

 

  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Of course it does.

 

  It does not, however, mean that a remittance of a government pension results in assessable income for Thai tax purposes.

 

  (Check your home country's DTA to see if government pensions are covered.)

 So we are still not clear on whether government pensions are included as taxable or not - mine is taxed in the UK already, of course.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Really?

 

  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

 I apologise - I probably got mixed up with the state pension being frozen because no treaty

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 UK no DTA unfortunately 

There is a UK Thai dta.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

There is a UK Thai dta.

Please see my reply above your post  🙏

So how will Uk government pensions be affected?  I'm due to collect mine in a few months

 

[chickenslegs]

8 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 So we are still not clear on whether government pensions are included as taxable or not - mine is taxed in the UK already, of course.

Government pensions are covered in the UK/Thailand DTA.

Here is a list of Government/Non Government pensions according to HM Gov.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040

 

You will notice that National Insurance pensions (which I assume means State Pension) is, oddly, not a Government pension.

[tomacht8]

The Pattaya tax advisor.

LoL. This sounds like every Thai tax advisor’s wet dream. Endless sheep voluntarily running to the slaughterhouse.

 

First of all, I'll wait until, whichever tax office in the world, officially writes to me and provides me with the relevant infos and forms.

 

In my case the timeline wouldn't work at all. And my local DTA also speaks against it. For example: My profits/income from rentals in 2024 in my home country. There I have time until the end of 2025 to declare my income to the local tax office. I will receive the tax assessment for 2024 perhaps in February 2026. Sorry Thailand, it is impossible for me to declare my 2024 profits and income at the end of March 2025.

 

 

Edited Friday at 06:09 AM by tomacht8

[BobBKK]

7 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Government pensions are covered in the UK/Thailand DTA.

Here is a list of Government/Non Government pensions according to HM Gov.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040

 

You will notice that National Insurance pensions (which I assume means State Pension) is, oddly, not a Government pension.

 And the NHS pension - I don't understand that - how can the state pension and NHS pension be non-government?

[jwest10]

23 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 So we are still not clear on whether government pensions are included as taxable or not - mine is taxed in the UK already, of course.

Many are not taxed and other pensions do not add up to the  just over 12.5k pounds approx personal allowance but folks do not forget that one can get 560K  Baht on personal allowances and the forms are not out for 2024 yet and yes Mike is right we sit tight and the only one seen is the 120 or 200k but not seen any form with the allowances listed.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

24 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Please see my reply above your post  🙏

So how will Uk government pensions be affected?  I'm due to collect mine in a few months

 

The DTA says uk government pensions are exempt, did you read the DTA?

[BobBKK]

9 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The DTA says uk government pensions are exempt, did you read the DTA?

 

Excuse me, did you read the posts?  State and NHS pensions are non-government?  did YOU read the DTA?

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

Excuse me, did you read the posts?  State and NHS pensions are non-government?  did YOU read the DTA?

State is not a governments pension, most nhs are. You appear to be using government and state to be the same, they are not

Edited Friday at 06:44 AM by Mike Lister

[BobBKK]

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

State is not a governments pension, most nhs are.

 
Mike, please. I respect your knowledge, but you are incorrect on this one. NHS are NON-government, as clearly laid out in the DTA. 

I receive an NHSBSA pension (NHS) I have now found out it is classed as NG. I am due for a state pension in a few months, and I now find out this also is NG. It seems utterly bizarre. 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 
Mike, please. I respect your knowledge, but you are incorrect on this one. NHS are NON-government, as clearly laid out in the DTA. 

I receive an NHSBSA pension (NHS) I have now found out it is classed as NG. I am due for a state pension in a few months, and I now find out this also is NG. It seems utterly bizarre. 

That has always been the case with state, a common misperception. I will need to look back at NHS pensions again, I am certain it was clarified in the early days that most NHS are classed as government 

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

That has always been the case with state, a common misperception. I will need to look back at NHS pensions again, I am certain it was clarified in the early days that most NHS are classed as government 

 

[redwood1]

43 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

The Pattaya tax advisor.

LoL. This sounds like every Thai tax advisor’s wet dream. Endless sheep voluntarily running to the slaughterhouse.

 

First of all, I'll wait until, whichever tax office in the world, officially writes to me and provides me with the relevant infos and forms.

 

In my case the timeline wouldn't work at all. And my local DTA also speaks against it. For example: My profits/income from rentals in 2024 in my home country. There I have time until the end of 2025 to declare my income to the local tax office. I will receive the tax assessment for 2024 perhaps in February 2026. Sorry Thailand, it is impossible for me to declare my 2024 profits and income at the end of March 2025.

 

 

 

Yep this form has loads of guys who can wait to pay loads of taxes...Heck they will be happy to pay a so called tax expert to make sure they pay even more taxes....lol......
 

While I bet the the Chinese,Russians and Thais dont pay jack...

 

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

So the correct answer is that some NHS are and some are not, which is what I said.

[BobBKK]

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

So the correct answer is that some NHS are and some are not, which is what I said.

 There is only one NHS Mike—ONE. Minor local healthcare providers might exist, but the NHSBSA will pay 99%. Got it now?  

[Mike Lister]

11 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 There is only one NHS Mike—ONE. Minor local healthcare providers might exist, but the NHSBSA will pay 99%. Got it now?  

I'm happy for you that you've got things clear in your own mind and that it's clear that State pension is not a government pension, as per below.  You'll forgive me for not having the same in depth understanding of the structure and payment mechanism's of the National Health Service, in a country I have barely ever lived in, as that of an ex NHS employee. 

 

"So how will Uk government state pensions be affected?  I'm due to collect mine in a few months".

Edited Friday at 07:22 AM by Mike Lister

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm happy for you that you've got things clear in your own mind and that it's clear that State pension is not a government pension.  You'll forgive me for not having the same in depth understanding of the structure and payment mechanism's of the National Health Service, in a country I have barely ever lived in, as that of an ex NHS employee. 

Understood - I wasn't trying to score points, and I appreciate your posts very much.

Just so everyone is clear, this is the NHS pension body for the UK. I am still not clear about whether I will have to pay double tax or not.

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed also a post discussing moderation, if you don't like whats on here then please go elsewhere as comments like you are making are not wanted here.

@rocketboy2

[chickenslegs]

19 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Understood - I wasn't trying to score points, and I appreciate your posts very much.

Just so everyone is clear, this is the NHS pension body for the UK. I am still not clear about whether I will have to pay double tax or not.

Bob. Just my thoughts.

 

Did you work for the NHS and get paid by the local authority, or did you work for NHSBSA - providing services for the NHS?

 

If you were paid by the local authority during your career and NHSBSA are just the people administering your pension, then I'd think you have a Government pension.

 

If you worked for NHSBSA, maybe it's non government.

 

Would be a good idea to write to your pension provider asking for clarity.

[BobBKK]

6 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Bob. Just my thoughts.

 

Did you work for the NHS and get paid by the local authority, or did you work for NHSBSA - providing services for the NHS?

 

If you were paid by the local authority during your career and NHSBSA are just the people administering your pension, then I'd think you have a Government pension.

 

If you worked for NHSBSA, maybe it's non government.

 

Would be a good idea to write to your pension provider asking for clarity.

 

Hi - I was a hospital manager. Worked for the NHS itself - pension is paid by the NHS BSA as millions are.  The NHSBSA is just the arm of the NHS which pays us the pension.

[Misty]

On 6/22/2024 at 3:35 PM, NoDisplayName said:

 

Potentially millions of Chinese in the northeast of the country can buy inexpensive vacation condos in Thailand to escape the worst of the -30C degree winter.

 

They may spend a couple months relaxing on the beach and never worry about 180-day tax residency.

 

Mr. Google says China signed the CRS and began implementation in 2018.  The US is not a participant, relying on FATCA instead.

 

FATCA update via AMCHAM Thailand Fri newsletter.  The Thai-US FATCA IGA was signed in 2016, so it's taken awhile to get to this stage.

 

Thai Revenue Department Begins FATCA Financial Data Exchange with the U.S.

• The Thai Revenue Department has begun exchanging financial account information with the U.S. under the Financial Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) agreement.
• Thai reporting entities can now report financial account information through the International Data Exchange Service (IDES).
• Earlier, Thailand and the U.S. signed an agreement to improve international tax compliance and implement FATCA, aiming to prevent tax evasion, enhance tax transparency, and improve tax administration efficiency.
• More information can be found on the Revenue Department website.

Source: Royal Thai Government (06/27/24)

 

 

 

[bugger bognor]

Can anybody clarify next year have all  expats by LAW been ordered to register for a tax number and file accounts  or will it be voluntary!! I have seen nothing official on this anywhere! 

[beammeup]

My understanding is that if you have assessable income that is remitted to Thailand greater than 120000 baht, you will need to get a tax number and file a tax return.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, beammeup said:

My understanding is that if you have assessable income that is remitted to Thailand greater than 120000 baht, you will need to get a tax number and file a tax return.

What if you determine that you'll owe no tax and just don't get a number and don't file.

At the end of the day, UNLESS immigration starts to demand tax stuff for extensions, that's what most not working in Thailand expats are going to do anyway.

[BKKKevin]

31 minutes ago, beammeup said:

My understanding is that if you have assessable income that is remitted to Thailand greater than 120000 baht, you will need to get a tax number and file a tax return.

Is the Thai Revenue authorities capable of handling tens of thousands of foreigner requesting an ID?… Also the Immigration Dept also must prepare for those who apply to also requesting a Residency Certificate (Which will be needed to get a ID)… Then they must be prepared to process the tax returns that will have support documentation in a hundred different languages… And at the end of that they will find only a few with income that are taxable… And those blokes with money are going to have a savvy accountant to mitigate most if not all of the taxes they owe… So this exercise will create a huge bureaucracy to pi$$ off most expats for a few baht…

[tomacht8]

39 minutes ago, beammeup said:

My understanding is that if you have assessable income that is remitted to Thailand greater than 120000 baht, you will need to get a tax number and file a tax return.

What tax office in the world doesn't want that? That the citizen comes to his master and asks how much he has to pay.

 

As long as I don't receive an official written request from the tax office, I won't do anything. Imagine you're not a member here, then you wouldn't know anything about all the new tax stress.

 

The lever by which the tax office can get to the addresses of possible taxable foreigners is actually immigration. First of all, it would have to be checked whether the foreigner was in Thailand for 180 days in the calendar year. Then the assignment of the reporting addresses. What is it like for foreigners who were in Thailand for more than 180 days in 2024, but for example do not stay in Thailand at all for the first 4 months of 2025? Is there even a data interface between immigration and the tax authorities? Does the tax authority even have the resources, technology and manpower to carry out such a tax fishery involving millions of people? etc.

 

There is still a mountain of unanswered questions. Everyone has to decide for themselves how to deal with it.

[Mike Lister]

57 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What if you determine that you'll owe no tax and just don't get a number and don't file.

At the end of the day, UNLESS immigration starts to demand tax stuff for extensions, that's what most not working in Thailand expats are going to do anyway.

The TRD Code states that a Thai tax resident must obtain a Thai TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k) regardless of whether tax is payable or not.