TM30 Question

[globalThailand]

Looking for some advice on the TM30

For context I left Thailand in 2017 after living there for a number of years so I totally missed the new change of law.   A farang friend of mine has been staying at my condo for a few months - he's about to apply for a Visa extension and they are asking for the TM30.

 

I can see that I'm able to sign up and register his occupancy online, but obviously way past the 24 hour mark.  Is there any way to complete that form retroactively?  I'm assuming not, so would I expect a fine?  Or... do I take a gamble, sign him in as of today and hope no questions are asked? (though I'd obviously not want to jeopardise his stay in LOS if there was an risk in doing so).  Additionally - he's not stayed at my condo continuously - he's taken weekend trips out and the like.  Would they track missing days?  How thorough is this as a thing?

 

From what I can see this came into effect in 2020 so I'm hoping there are people with plenty of experience here

[DrJack54]

7 hours ago, globalThailand said:

Looking for some advice on the TM30

For context I left Thailand in 2017 after living there for a number of years so I totally missed the new change of law.   A farang friend of mine has been staying at my condo for a few months - he's about to apply for a Visa extension and they are asking for the TM30.

 

I can see that I'm able to sign up and register his occupancy online, but obviously way past the 24 hour mark.  Is there any way to complete that form retroactively?  I'm assuming not, so would I expect a fine?  Or... do I take a gamble, sign him in as of today and hope no questions are asked? (though I'd obviously not want to jeopardise his stay in LOS if there was an risk in doing so).  Additionally - he's not stayed at my condo continuously - he's taken weekend trips out and the like.  Would they track missing days?  How thorough is this as a thing?

 

From what I can see this came into effect in 2020 so I'm hoping there are people with plenty of experience here

Bumping your thread as no reply.

Immigration pretty much just want to see a TM30 when he applies for extension.

You mention friend has been in Thailand "for few months" 

Which immigration office will he use and what is his current stamp based on...tourist visa? 

[SportRider]

Just do the TM30 online.  You can't backdate it. 

Using the online service, once you've done the submission you can 'export' a doc that is proof of submission.  Also a good idea to make a screen grab of the data page, and print both. 

 

edit. 

I should add that the system is not searchable beyond 7 days, and even a one night away from your residence is a technical reason to do a new TM30.  No problems about the date not matching some random one in the past. 

Edited June 8 by SportRider

[Almer]

Other than it is the law, why is it a requirement when you live in Thailand, have a retirement visa, up to date with your 90 day that when you go on a 4 week holiday overseas you have to do a TM30 on return

[grain]

11 minutes ago, Almer said:

Other than it is the law, why is it a requirement when you live in Thailand, have a retirement visa, up to date with your 90 day that when you go on a 4 week holiday overseas you have to do a TM30 on return

They don't want you to get too comfortable, don't want you to settle in too much and start thinking you live here now and this is your home, all these silly little hoops they make you jump through keep reminding you that you're an alien and whether you're married and got 10 kids and bought a house and concerted to Buddhism doesn't matter a hoot, you're only here on a very temporary basis.

[globalThailand]

Thanks All,

 

Looks like we'll apply now so he has it and if there's any whoopsie I guess we pay the fine and get it right moving forward.  It does seem a little overly bureaucratic, but that's why we love Thailand, amiright?  😬

 

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You mention friend has been in Thailand "for few months" 

Which immigration office will he use and what is his current stamp based on...tourist visa? 

He has a work permit but needing to extend his original 90 entry visa (all of which sounds new to me too - wondering if he is getting mixed up with the 90 day report... either way he needs the TM30).  Not sure exactly where he would get this done, probably BKK - does that matter?

 

1 hour ago, grain said:

They don't want you to get too comfortable [...] you're only here on a very temporary basis.

Yeah - After 13 years in Thailand, with house, wife, kid, car etc I was always uncomfortable with the fact my stay was very dependent on a continuous working permit.  

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, Almer said:

Other than it is the law, why is it a requirement when you live in Thailand, have a retirement visa, up to date with your 90 day that when you go on a 4 week holiday overseas you have to do a TM30 on return

Unless things have changed, as far as I remember, providing you return to the same address when you return, you don't have to make a new TM30 registration.

[MangoKorat]

16 hours ago, globalThailand said:

I can see that I'm able to sign up and register his occupancy online, but obviously way past the 24 hour mark.  Is there any way to complete that form retroactively?  I'm assuming not, so would I expect a fine?  Or... do I take a gamble, sign him in as of today and hope no questions are asked?

Yes you can but depending on the individual office, if your friend has a signed lease, he should be able to register TM30 himself.  I suggest he contacts the local office and asks what they require.

 

As for being fined, it may or may not happen, I would just go ahead and register and see what happens.

 

I had lots of problems with my initial registration (which is now defucnt and I have to start again) but eventually got it sorted and registered myself.  I'm lead to believe that immigration are a lot more easy going now and they just want to see that someone is properly registered.

Edited June 8 by MangoKorat

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, Almer said:

Other than it is the law, why is it a requirement when you live in Thailand, have a retirement visa, up to date with your 90 day that when you go on a 4 week holiday overseas you have to do a TM30 on return

It's not the law.

TM30 law was changed in June 2020. 

TM30 reporting is not required in the example you outlined. 

[wmlc]

20 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

It's not the law.

TM30 law was changed in June 2020. 

TM30 reporting is not required in the example you outlined. 

You are correct that the law was changed in 2020. However, recently immigration has started to ask again in certain situations. One example, I was at Nonthaburi immigration the last week. At the check in desk where you get the number, they posted at notice and an example of a TM30 saying they still wanted to see the TM30 for the first 90 day report at any given address. Another example, which was the reason I was there. I have done my 90 day reports online consistently, even after leaving the country and coming back to the same address without filing a new TM30. However, this time, I renewed my passport before my last extension of stay. Even though I had transferred stamps from the old passport to the new passport before my extension of stay, they rejected my online report and asked to see the original TM30 before doing the report in person. I knew this would be the case, so I brought it with me. The third example, counter N at Immigration division 1 is now asking to see a TM30 for every extension of stay based on being an employee of a non profit organization. This means either a local Thai Foundation or a Foreign Private Organization (NGO). They have also started asking for a TM30 for every extension of stay based on being a student. They are currently not asking for this at any of the other counters. This was changed in the first or second week of May. The point is that immigration often issue internal regulations under circumstances to protect the Kingdom. In this last example, it was issued due to the corruption which has been apparent in the issuing of visas for employees in the non profit sector and students of language schools. 

Edited June 9 by wmlc

[ningnong]

30 minutes ago, wmlc said:

You are correct that the law was changed in 2020.

 

I often see misinformation posted in this Visa forum regarding TM30 reporting requirements by people I assume can't read the original Thai text of the regulation change in 2020.

 

 

So I started a topic over in the language forum a couple of weeks ago titled "If you can read Thai - analyze this portion of Immigration Section 38" inviting other Thai language readers to share their opinions.

 

I recommend visiting that topic especially the people who think Immigration offices requesting a new TM30 are "rogue" offices.

 

[wmlc]

25 minutes ago, ningnong said:

 

I often see misinformation posted in this Visa forum regarding TM30 reporting requirements by people I assume can't read the original Thai text of the regulation change in 2020.

 

 

So I started a topic over in the language forum a couple of weeks ago titled "If you can read Thai - analyze this portion of Immigration Section 38" inviting other Thai language readers to share their opinions.

 

I recommend visiting that topic especially the people who think Immigration offices requesting a new TM30 are "rogue" offices.

 

There are no rogue offices. Any immigration office or officer has the right to request additional information to extend a visa or issue a visa. They also issue new internal regulations or announcements in different immigration offices in different cities, For example, in Chiangmai, if you want to do an extension of stay based on working for a local Thai Foundation, you must submit a certified copy of the Foundation license done within 7 days of the visa extension and show proof of the position necessity with programming info. These things are not required in Bangkok. Bangkok however does ask for a TM30 at counter N now and Chiangmai still does not. So, again, there are no rogue offices of immigration. They sometimes need to adapt to local issues. Just like in Pattaya to do an extension of stay based on retirement. They ask for a lease contract for 1 year sometimes. I don't need to show that in Bangkok ever. Another example is Pattaya will not issue a 1 year work permit immediately. They will issue it for 1 month first and then do another after for the remainder of the 1 year. Never need to do this in Bangkok.  

Edited June 9 by wmlc

[Almer]

On 6/8/2024 at 5:52 PM, DrJack54 said:

It's not the law.

TM30 law was changed in June 2020. 

TM30 reporting is not required in the example you outlined. 

You try it first, let us all know how you get on. 

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, Almer said:

You try it first, let us all know how you get on. 

I deal with CW. That immigration office follows the law in relation to TM30 requirements.

I regularly travel out of Thailand and never file a TM30 on return..

As it's not required. 

[Digitalbanana]

On 6/8/2024 at 2:26 PM, Almer said:

why is it a requirement when you live in Thailand, have a retirement visa, up to date with your 90 day that when you go on a 4 week holiday overseas you have to do a TM30 on return

It's only a requirement if you move home in Thailand or have a change of visa.

[ningnong]

On 6/8/2024 at 2:26 PM, Almer said:

Other than it is the law, why is it a requirement when you live in Thailand, have a retirement visa, up to date with your 90 day that when you go on a 4 week holiday overseas you have to do a TM30 on return

Because the regulation states, in Thai, that only occasional overnight stays away from home are exempt from the requirement to do a new TM30 when you return to your primary residence. So if your immigration office requires a new TM30 after a 4 week holiday they are actually following the law correctly.

Dictionary:

https://www.thai2english.com/?q=พักแรมที่อื่นเป็นครั้งคราว

[Almer]

18 hours ago, ningnong said:

Because the regulation states, in Thai, that only occasional overnight stays away from home are exempt from the requirement to do a new TM30 when you return to your primary residence. So if your immigration office requires a new TM30 after a 4 week holiday they are actually following the law correctly.

Dictionary:

https://www.thai2english.com/?q=พักแรมที่อื่นเป็นครั้งคราว

Yes ningnong I am aware, that is why I asked the question, Why, when you are returning to the house you have lived in for 16 years and every renewal every 90 day is recorded to that house, Why, do you have to, as I posted I know it's the requirement, but Why. 

[wmlc]

3 minutes ago, Almer said:

Yes ningnong I am aware, that is why I asked the question, Why, when you are returning to the house you have lived in for 16 years and every renewal every 90 day is recorded to that house, Why, do you have to, as I posted I know it's the requirement, but Why. 

Read this: 

The new regulations only require property owners and hotel operators to register a foreigner when they arrive at a property for the first time. The update was published in the Royal Thai Gazette on 16 June 2020, and has been in full effect since 30 June 2020.

Expats living in Thailand embarking on short-term travel will no longer need to be reported by their landlords when returning to stay at the property they were originally staying at within the validity of their re-entry permit..  This contrasts to previous requirements where foreigners temporarily traveling outside Thailand or staying overnight in another property had to be reported to the immigration by the property owner or hotel operator. 
 

Clear ?

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, wmlc said:

Read this: 

The new regulations only require property owners and hotel operators to register a foreigner when they arrive at a property for the first time. The update was published in the Royal Thai Gazette on 16 June 2020, and has been in full effect since 30 June 2020.

Expats living in Thailand embarking on short-term travel will no longer need to be reported by their landlords when returning to stay at the property they were originally staying at within the validity of their re-entry permit..  This contrasts to previous requirements where foreigners temporarily traveling outside Thailand or staying overnight in another property had to be reported to the immigration by the property owner or hotel operator. 
 

Clear ?

Except that we are now being told the opposite here

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329800-my-90-day-online-report-was-rejected-due-to-the-hotel-in-bkk-that-i-stayed-at-last-week/

 

[ningnong]

6 hours ago, Almer said:

Yes ningnong I am aware, that is why I asked the question, Why, when you are returning to the house you have lived in for 16 years and every renewal every 90 day is recorded to that house, Why, do you have to, as I posted I know it's the requirement, but Why. 

 

A 90 day report itself doesn't require any proof of address but from a couple of posts I've read here about doing the report online it seems likely that your address on a 90 day report needs to match a current TM30 in the system and your return from a 4 week holiday overseas triggers the need for new TM30.

 

 

Typically a third party, who is usually a Thai, provides their ID and proof they own, possess are in some way control a place for an alien to stay. That third party confirms where you are staying backed up with documentation. Immigration doesn't need to take your word for it.

 

I get what you're saying, it does seem ridiculous in cases like yours to require the new TM30 but I suppose we all get lumped together whether you've lived in the same place for 16 years or only 16 weeks. And of course it will depend on which Immigration office you use and how they choose to enforce the rule. Good news is if you're registered online its painless to do your own TM30s.

 

[wmlc]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Except that we are now being told the opposite here

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329800-my-90-day-online-report-was-rejected-due-to-the-hotel-in-bkk-that-i-stayed-at-last-week/

 

All it does is force you to do your next 90 day report in person in some cases. When I have done that, I presented them with the original TM30 I did online from when I first moved to that address and not a new one. Then my next 90 day report done online was not rejected.

Edited Saturday at 05:28 PM by wmlc

[soi3eddie]

So easy for you (as home owner) to register for the TM30 online system. It is instant - at least it was when I registered my condo last year. Very easy to file a TM30 then for your friend. So long as it is done before the trip to immigration there is no problem - best to print off the filing receipt (in Thai). This topic has been discussed relentlessly here on TV/AN.

  

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, wmlc said:

All it does is force you to do your next 90 day report in person in some cases. When I have done that, I presented them with the original TM30 I did online from when I first moved to that address and not a new one. Then my next 90 day report done online was not rejected.

Thanks for that (though not sure all IOs will be same in this regard).

 

Online 90 day report not possible with my IO in any case. They refuse to accept any but in person, and that for  a "fee". 

 

My main concern was upcoming extension. 

[wmlc]

On 6/16/2024 at 10:45 AM, Sheryl said:

Thanks for that (though not sure all IOs will be same in this regard).

 

Online 90 day report not possible with my IO in any case. They refuse to accept any but in person, and that for  a "fee". 

 

My main concern was upcoming extension. 

Supplying a TM30 when doing a visa extension was not the topic of the thread. Either was doing an online 90 day report. it was only whether our not you have to ask the house owner to do another TM30 when you come back to the residence after traveling abroad or staying in another house or hotel within Thailand. 

 

What you are after will depend on the local IO you are dealing with. Some ask for a TM30 and some don't. 

[Sheryl]

37 minutes ago, wmlc said:

Supplying a TM30 when doing a visa extension was not the topic of the thread. Either was doing an online 90 day report. it was only whether our not you have to ask the house owner to do another TM30 when you come back to the residence after traveling abroad or staying in another house or hotel within Thailand. 

 

What you are after will depend on the local IO you are dealing with. Some ask for a TM30 and some don't. 

I have both returned from abroad and stayed in other houses/hotels many, many times since last TM 30.

 

So the question is, am I now required to do another TM30?

[wmlc]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I have both returned from abroad and stayed in other houses/hotels many, many times since last TM 30.

 

So the question is, am I now required to do another TM30?

The new regulations only require property owners and hotel operators to register a foreigner when they arrive at a property for the first time. The update was published in the Royal Thai Gazette on 16 June 2020, and has been in full effect since 30 June 2020.

Expats living in Thailand embarking on short-term travel will no longer need to be reported by their landlords when returning to stay at the property they were originally staying at within the validity of their re-entry permit..  This contrasts to previous requirements where foreigners temporarily traveling outside Thailand or staying overnight in another property had to be reported to the immigration by the property owner or hotel operator. 

 

So the short answer to your question is "no"

 

You are confusing the showing of your TM30 receipt to the IO if he asks when you extend your visa and doing a TM30. They are not the same. If you are asked to show your TM30 by the IO, you ask the house owner to give you the receipt and show it to immigration. Most get this receipt when they first move in, so it should be as simple as going into your little folder of receipts and getting it out to take to immigration. However, doing the TM30 is not your  responsibility. It is the responsibility of the house owner. End of story.  

 

If the house owner can't provide you with the receipt or won't do your TM30, you have two choices. Number 1, hire an agency to get it for you. Number 2, find new accommodation where the house owner follows the rules. Never rent a place without knowing if they will provide you with a TM30 receipt or not. 

Edited yesterday at 10:31 AM by wmlc

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, wmlc said:

The new regulations only require property owners and hotel operators to register a foreigner when they arrive at a property for the first time. The update was published in the Royal Thai Gazette on 16 June 2020, and has been in full effect since 30 June 2020.

Expats living in Thailand embarking on short-term travel will no longer need to be reported by their landlords when returning to stay at the property they were originally staying at within the validity of their re-entry permit..  This contrasts to previous requirements where foreigners temporarily traveling outside Thailand or staying overnight in another property had to be reported to the immigration by the property owner or hotel operator. 

 

So the short answer to your question is "no"

 

You are confusing the showing of your TM30 receipt to the IO if he asks when you extend your visa and doing a TM30. They are not the same. If you are asked to show your TM30 by the IO, you ask the house owner to give you the receipt and show it to immigration. Most get this receipt when they first move in, so it should be as simple as going into your little folder of receipts and getting it out to take to immigration. However, doing the TM30 is not your  responsibility. It is the responsibility of the house owner. 

Not confusing anything. I am the house owner, and I have the TM30 receipt.

 

If another report is required, I am the one to make it.  It is my responsibility, as owner of the house

 

Availability of receipt not the issue. 

 

I am aware of the June 2020 guidance.

 

But it seems people are now being told they must file new TM30 everytime they return home after have stayed at a hotel that filed one (which is most hotels). 

[wmlc]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Not confusing anything. I am the house owner, and I have the TM30 receipt.

 

If another report is required, I am the one to make it.  It is my responsibility, as owner of the house

 

Availability of receipt not the issue. 

 

I am aware of the June 2020 guidance.

 

But it seems people are now being told they must file new TM30 everytime they return home after have stayed at a hotel that filed one (which is most hotels). 

Who is telling some people they need to provide a new TM30 receipt in what situation? The IO in some cases is simply asking for a TM30 receipt to do a visa extension and does not mean a new one needs to be filed. That is what you are confused about. They just want it as part of the supporting docs. How do I know this? I will tell you how? Counter N at immigration division 1 are asking for the TM30 receipts only and not asking for a new TM30 to be filed. They can see it was already done in the system but still insist on having a copy of the receipt for the file. Why? Because they are cracking down on foundation visa extensions. That’s the reason and a true to life example. It does not mean a new TM30 needs to be filed. 
 

I didn’t need a new TM30 filed after coming back from Canada. I didn’t need one after I changed passports? I didn’t need one when I stayed in a Pattaya hotel for a weekend when returning to Bangkok to my permanent residence and after doing a 90 day report or a visa extension. Just needed to show the original TM30 receipt. Yes, maybe my online 90 day report was rejected, but doing it in person only required the original TM30 receipt and not a new one filed. Clear ? If not clear then I can’t help you any more, as it seems to be a never ending conversation.

Edited 22 hours ago by wmlc

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, wmlc said:

I didn’t need a new TM30 filed after coming back from Canada. I didn’t need one after I changed passports? I didn’t need one when I stayed in a Pattaya hotel for a weekend when I returning to Bangkok to my permanent residence and after doing a 90 day report or a visa extension. Just needed to show the original TM30 receipt. Yes, maybe my online 90 day report was rejected, but doing it in person only required the original TM30 receipt and not a new one filed.

I can go one better: I have never provided a TM30 for my 12 years here on extensions from a non O (retirement) 

That includes annual extensions, certificate of residence, 90 day reports including in person and online. 

Also April renewed pp and for stamp transfer did not require TM30.

MANY trips out of Thailand.

Same address 12 years. 

 

Few current threads running on this topic. Seem mainly to do with online reporting require updated TM30 to sync.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wmlc]

53 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I can go one better: I have never provided a TM30 for my 12 years here on extensions from a non O (retirement) 

That includes annual extensions, certificate of residence, 90 day reports including in person and online. 

Also April renewed pp and for stamp transfer did not require TM30.

MANY trips out of Thailand.

Same address 12 years. 

 

Few current threads running on this topic. Seem mainly to do with online reporting require updated TM30 to sync.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree