Reform UK Overtakes Tories in Polls for the First Time

[simple1]

14 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It was the Government that had to deal with the Brexit result , Farage wasn't  part of the Government .

   The Government didn't want him to be part of the leaving process 

 

Make excuses as much as you wish, but Farage made numerous assertions on the benefit of Brexit. If as you seem to claim he had zero ability to deliver on promises he was  a waste of time. Perhaps better stated voters were truly stupid to believe in him.

[James105]

9 hours ago, JayClay said:

 

Under the last Labour government living standards shot up, NHS waiting lists decreased dramatically, wages increased, and the size of the economy doubled. Those are just a few of the achievements they managed last time they were in office.

 

That is how anyone can justify voting Labour.

 

The idea that "they're all the same" is one that is pushed by people who have an incentive for you to believe it. And it is only believed by people who pay no real attention to politics.

 

Anyway the fight now is not for who will win, the big prize is if the Tories are knocked down to third place. That would mean the Lib Dems becoming the official opposition, and perhaps finally we might hear some competent politicians holding sensible debates in parliament for a change.

 

Labour are going to be in government. That's nailed on. But who do you want holding them to account?

 

Tories: High taxes, high immigration, high spending.

Labour: Higher taxes, higher immigration, higher spending.

 

Yes, not quite the same but somehow worse.  Yes we will get a Labour government and you will get to see how bad this is when the economy is not booming (as it was under Blair) and taxes have to be raised as the amount spent on debt interest is already higher than the cost of education so borrowing more is off the table.  Of course Labour will try and target the rich people but the rich people will move somewhere else so it will be the normal folks getting hit with the tax rises to cover the wasteful spending they will want to implement.  

 

The next 5 years will be rough in the UK.  Labour are not getting into government on a wave of optimism like last time, they are getting to be in government because the Tories need to be punished for not being Conservative.   

 

Rich folks are already leaving.  Expect this to increase. 

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/millionaires-leave-uk-rich-high-net-worth-china-dubai-uae-florida-usa-dubai-henley-b1165154.html

 

Lets hope it is just a single term so either reform or a reformed Conservative party that is actually conservative can repair the damage.  

[RayC]

20 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Do you believe that the implementation of the Brexit deal has been badly handled by the UK government?

YES AND ALSO YES TO THAT ABOMINABLE WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

 

At least we agree about the actual Agreement (albeit for different reasons).

 

20 hours ago, nauseus said:

If yes, what in your opinion do you think that the UK government could, and should, have done differently?

IT SHOULD HAVE SELECTED A STRONGER LEADER, WHO WAS COMMITTED TO BREXIT AND WHO WOULD HAVE NEGOTIATED HARDER, WITHOUT THE DECEPTION AND UNDERHANDEDNESS OF MAY AND WATKINS.

 

 

My original question concerned how the implementation of the Agreement could be/ could have been improved. I still don't have an answer to that question.

 

As I implied previously, imo it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference if the UK side had been led by the world's best negotiator. For one thing, s/he would have had the same problems as May did in getting the deal through parliament Ultimately, the deal was always going to be on the EU's terms. The only card the UK could have played was to walk away with 'No deal'. This would have hurt the EU but it would have hurt the UK even more.

 

The Agreement is due for review in 2026. As we speak, I doubt that this will amount to much more than a box ticking exercise as the EU currently has no interest in spending any more time on Brexit. However, the political landscape is changing in the EU (member states) and the UK, and much can happen in the next 2 years, so who knows? Maybe Sir Kier will grow a pair and we'll enter into an EEA type agreement as a prelude to rejoining?🙏 (Almost certainly wishful thinking on my part). Article about the review here

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-might-the-review-of-the-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-actually-be-like/

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, James105 said:

Labour are not getting into government on a wave of optimism like last time, they are getting to be in government because the Tories need to be punished for not being Conservative. 

No, the issue is not that the Conservatives are not Conservative enough.

 

Its the fact 14 years of Tory failure have left millions of people far worse off than they were added to the usual Tory corruption and sleaze.

 

The NHS in crisis, the housing crisis, the crisis in care of the elderly, one crisis after another.

 

And to top it off, those promises of warm sunlit uplands, they have not been delivered because they do not exist.

 

If you didn’t see BBC Question Time this week do make time to do so.

It’s well past time for change.

[DonniePeverley]

On 6/19/2024 at 9:00 AM, CG1 Blue said:

 

No doubt some rabid remainer group took all the negatives and excluded all the positives to come up with a number that makes them feel better, and you believed them 🤦‍♂️

 

One tanglible benefit of Brexit please?

 

My sister used to export easily to Europe. No longer. She now has to fill massive forms to get products into that market, and furthermore to import things she needs. It's ridiculous. 

 

No other country puts up barriers up to trade because the population has racists. 

[JayClay]

14 hours ago, James105 said:

Tories: High taxes, high immigration, high spending.

Labour: Higher taxes, higher immigration, higher spending.

 

It's a question of where that money is spent. With Labour, a much higher percentage is invested in public services. Under the Tories, it's being used to line their own already-overflowing troughs.

 

Anybody who seriously believes that things will be worse under a Labour government than the current crop of Tories then they are clearly too tribal to have a proper conversation on the subject.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

One tanglible benefit of Brexit please?

 

My sister used to export easily to Europe. No longer. She now has to fill massive forms to get products into that market, and furthermore to import things she needs. It's ridiculous. 

 

No other country puts up barriers up to trade because the population has racists. 

Labour will start dismantling those barriers in this coming parliament.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

7 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

One tanglible benefit of Brexit please?

 

My sister used to export easily to Europe. No longer. She now has to fill massive forms to get products into that market, and furthermore to import things she needs. It's ridiculous. 

 

No other country puts up barriers up to trade because the population has racists. 

 

   Europeans are the same race as British people , so it cannot be racism involved 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Europeans are the same race as British people , so it cannot be racism involved 

That's not what was said. Poster said that barriers were set up as a result of Brexit, and Brexit was the result of racism. Personally I don't agree with that premises, I think Brexit was the result of a misplaced superiority feeling from people who can't accept Britain isn't a major world power anymore.

[Nick Carter icp]

17 minutes ago, stevenl said:

That's not what was said. Poster said that barriers were set up as a result of Brexit, and Brexit was the result of racism. 

 

   How can it be racism when British people and Europeans are the same race ? 

[stevenl]

30 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   How can it be racism when British people and Europeans are the same race ? 

He said Brexit was based on racism, I would presume immigration.

[herfiehandbag]

23 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Make excuses as much as you wish, but Farage made numerous assertions on the benefit of Brexit. If as you seem to claim he had zero ability to deliver on promises he was  a waste of time. Perhaps better stated voters were truly stupid to believe in him.

Possibly one of the major pillars of support for Farage and Brexit came from voters who were consistently and very publicly labelled as "stupid" for even considering voting for him. It was perhaps a major error on the part of "Remain" and perhaps tipped the balance in a close contest.

 

Now Farage and Reform UK has emerged as a significant force in UK politics, are we hearing the same choruses starting up again?

 

Now if that is the case, it strikes me at least, as a bit stupid!

[JayClay]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

That's not what was said. Poster said that barriers were set up as a result of Brexit, and Brexit was the result of racism. Personally I don't agree with that premises, I think Brexit was the result of a misplaced superiority feeling from people who can't accept Britain isn't a major world power anymore.

 

There are a massive amount of reasons that the Brit public were conned into believing that Brexit was a good idea.

 

Not all Brexits are racists. But I'm willing to believe that virtually all racists voted for Brexit. And I'd also place money on it being a higher figure than 4%. Therefore while not everybody who voted for Brexit is/was a racists, Brexit could never have happened without the support of racists.

[James105]

1 hour ago, JayClay said:

 

There are a massive amount of reasons that the Brit public were conned into believing that Brexit was a good idea.

 

Not all Brexits are racists. But I'm willing to believe that virtually all racists voted for Brexit. And I'd also place money on it being a higher figure than 4%. Therefore while not everybody who voted for Brexit is/was a racists, Brexit could never have happened without the support of racists.

 

People voted for change.  Why do you think that is?   Because they think the UK is being well run and were quite happy that manifesto promises were continuously broken?  The referendum came along which meant for the first time in their lives their vote actually counted for something.    It was a rejection of the globalist agenda and they were making the point they wanted the government to prioritise team UK rather than team world.  The referendum could have been on anything really and the people would have voted against whatever the government/establishment was selling, it just happened to be on EU membership.  

 

Call it racist all you want as that word has no meaning any more and nowadays it is commonly used by people of lesser intelligence to describe people who think open borders are a terrible idea. 

Edited June 22 by James105

[JayClay]

11 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

People voted for change.  Why do you think that is?   Because they think the UK is being well run and were quite happy that manifesto promises were continuously broken?  The referendum came along which meant for the first time in their lives their vote actually counted for something.    It was a rejection of the globalist agenda 

 

A rejection of the global agenda, campaigned for, and won by, those running the globalist agenda....

 

I agree that people thought the UK was being run poorly. But the EU weren't the ones running the UK.

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, JayClay said:

 

A rejection of the global agenda, campaigned for, and won by, those running the globalist agenda....

 

I agree that people thought the UK was being run poorly. But the EU weren't the ones running the UK.

The leave campaign managed to shift the blame to the EU.

[Mike Teavee]

For me the worst part about Brexit was that Camaronon had no plan if the vote turned out to be leave except to walk (run) away & this is the guy who is probably going to be the next face of the Conservative party. 

 

How sad is it to be British & an army of Lions ruled by Sheep ...  {Edit I am British, raised on a council estate in Warrington, NW England so no slur against my fellow Brits) 

 

In my career we presented a plan to management about what we thought was the right way to go but always had to have a "Plan B" for what we would do if they didn't agree... Camaroron's plan was to "Run Away"... 

 

 

 

Edited June 22 by Mike Teavee

[transam]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Labour will start dismantling those barriers in this coming parliament.

 

Really....................🤣

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Really....................🤣

I'm not sure they'll have time.

 

They'll be too busy searching high and low for the imaginary people who are going to become the thousands upon thousands of new nurses, teachers, police, healthcare workers and child care workers 

Edited June 22 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I'm not sure they'll have time.

 

They'll be too busy searching high and low for the imaginary people who are going to become the thousands upon thousands of new nurses, teachers, police, healthcare workers and child care workers 

I’m sure they can do more than one thing at once.

 

I mean just look at the current Government, they fail at almost everything but they still manage to fail at more than one thing at once, except of course lining the pockets of their chums.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Really....................🤣

Even the Tory Press are talking about it:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/18/labour-reverse-brexit-britain-eu-european-union-election/

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

For me the worst part about Brexit was that Camaronon had no plan if the vote turned out to be leave except to walk (run) away & this is the guy who is probably going to be the next face of the Conservative party. 

 

How sad is it to be British & an army of Lions ruled by Sheep ...  {Edit I am British, raised on a council estate in Warrington, NW England so no slur against my fellow Brits) 

 

In my career we presented a plan to management about what we thought was the right way to go but always had to have a "Plan B" for what we would do if they didn't agree... Camaroron's plan was to "Run Away"... 

 

 

 

I think the plan was for the Government‘a hedgefund managers to make off like bandits.

[James105]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Even the Tory Press are talking about it:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/18/labour-reverse-brexit-britain-eu-european-union-election/

 

The Labour manifesto explicitly rules this out:

https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-party-european-union-brexit-manifesto-2024/

 

“With Labour, Britain will stay outside of the EU. But to seize the opportunities ahead, we must make Brexit work. We will reset the relationship and seek to deepen ties with our European friends, neighbours and allies.  That does not mean reopening the divisions of the past. There will be no return to the single market, the customs union, or freedom of movement.”

 

They could well face similar decimation as the Tories next time around if they treat their manifesto with the same disdain as the Tories did with theirs.   

[Nick Carter icp]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

He said Brexit was based on racism, I would presume immigration.

 

  How can it be racism when Europeans are the same race as British people ? 

[stevenl]

43 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  How can it be racism when Europeans are the same race as British people ? 

Answered already, sorry to see you don't understand.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Answered already, sorry to see you don't understand.

 

  But the last answer didn't make any sense, and that's why I asked again.

   British people wanted to leave a group who were the same race as them because of their own  racism ? 

   British people wanting trade deals with India and not the E.U are racist ?

[youreavinalaff]

27 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Answered already, sorry to see you don't understand.

The idea of Brexit lessening immigration and controlling the borders was to stop Europeans coming to UK freely. Clearly not racism.

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think the plan was for the Government‘a hedgefund managers to make off like bandits.

And I think you were absolutely spot on... Can you imagine how much you could have made on that "Bet"!

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think the plan was for the Government‘a hedgefund managers to make off like bandits.

The secret is out.

 

Chomper's Italiano.

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The idea of Brexit lessening immigration and controlling the borders was to stop Europeans coming to UK freely. Clearly not racism.

Except for Farage and his ‘Breaking Point’ poster.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poster-nigel-farage-polls-michael-gove-a7089946.html