3 hours ago, dinsdale said:

And just how many are dying? As I said the chances of dying from Omicron, whatever variant, is very, very, very slim indeed. If a person is immunocompromised for example then the risk increases but for the majority Omicron in a non-severe viral infection. This is the reality. 

Yep, death rates are "acceptable" now.

On 6/17/2024 at 8:47 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And that studies repeatedly have shown than being up-to-date on COVID XBB variant vaccinations reduces people's risk of serious COVID illness vs. those who haven't received the latest vaccine.

 

Latest COVID-19 vaccines reduce hospitalization risk by around half

"The latest COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk for hospitalization or visits to an ED or urgent care by around 50%, according to interim data published in MMWR.

...

Overall, VE against COVID-19-associated ME or hospitalization was 51% (95% CI = 47%-54%) in the first 7 to 59 days after receiving an updated vaccine dose and 39% (95% CI = 33%-45%) in the 60 to 119 days after an updated vaccine dose.

 

 

https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20240301/latest-covid19-vaccines-reduce-hospitalization-risk-by-around-half

 

or the following from the U.S. CDC:

 

"Protective tools, like vaccines and treatments, that decrease risk of COVID-19 disease (particularly severe disease) are now widely available. COVID-19 vaccination reduces the risk of symptomatic disease and hospitalization by about 50% compared to people not up to date on vaccination. Over 95% of adults hospitalized in 2023-2024 due to COVID-19 had no record of receiving the latest vaccine."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/background/index.html#:~:text=Over 95% of adults hospitalized,of receiving the latest vaccine

 

 

I find it disconcerting that they don't even bother to publish results after more than 119 days. That's just 4 months. 

 

A well informed friend of mine (over 70, overweight, diabetes) really gets vaccinated every 3 or 6 months - I forgot which number,  I find both numbers very frequent. 

I haven't followed the subject for a while,  so 2 questions if you happen to know the answers:

 

How long does the protection from vaccines against hospitalisation and death last? They used to say (1 or 2 years ago) this would be long-lasting.

 

I have read that there is no reason not to get a vaccine every 6 or even 3 months.  Do you know anything about this?

 

Thx

49 minutes ago, Lorry said:

How long does the protection from vaccines against hospitalisation and death last? They used to say (1 or 2 years ago) this would be long-lasting.

 

I have read that there is no reason not to get a vaccine every 6 or even 3 months.  Do you know anything about this?

 

 

There are different opinions about the questions you broach above, but I can offer the following comments:

 

In general, for a person who's at high risk for bad COVID outcomes (elderly, overweight, diabetes), places such as the U.S. and UK recommend that they remain up-to-date with their COVID vaccinations.

 

Right now, that's meant as at least having received one dose of the latest XBB variant COVID vaccine. The UK at present is running twice-a-year public vaccination campaigns (spring and fall) targeted to the elderly and those otherwise at high risk.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-spring-booster-resources/a-guide-to-the-covid-19-spring-booster-2023

 

The U.S. has taken a broader approach, saying that everyone should at least receive one dose of the latest XBB variant vaccine, and a second dose is OK for people at higher risk.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/s-0228-covid.html

 

In both the U.S. and the UK, there will be new versions of the COVID vaccines released later this fall aimed at protecting against the latest JN.1 / KP.2 COVID variants.

 

In general, both countries appear to be heading toward an annual cycle of COVID vaccines being updated for the latest variants, much like flu vaccines are updated each year. And both the U.S. and UK right now are OK with twice-a-year vaccinations for those in the high-risk groups.

 

As for the duration of protection, recent studies continue to show that it wanes after administration, down to pretty low levels by the time people get 6 months or more out from vaccination -- which is what presumably has driven the acceptance of twice-a-year vaccinations for those at high risk.

 

This study info was reported in the New England Journal of Medicine recently on protection duration against COVID infections, hospitalizations and death, and was posted earlier in this thread:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329918-new-covid-sub-variant-kp2-on-the-rise-in-thailand/?do=findComment&comment=19000206

 

Re your comment about prior discussion about the vaccines having longer-term protections lasting 1-2 years, I saw those references earlier in the pandemic with earlier variants of the COVID virus. But I haven't seen anything substantiating that lately.

 

Also, while I wouldn't advise the following, there was this item in the news not long back:

 

 

5 hours ago, zakalwe said:

Yep, death rates are "acceptable" now.

People will die due to covid variants for decades. Just like those who pass due to the flu.

9 hours ago, dinsdale said:

As I said the chances of dying from Omicron, whatever variant, is very, very, very slim indeed.

 

The chances of dying where always very slim.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36341800/

 

The IFRs had a median of 0.034% (interquartile range (IQR) 0.013-0.056%) for the 0-59 years old population, and 0.095% (IQR 0.036-0.119%) for the 0-69 years old. The median IFR was 0.0003% at 0-19 years, 0.002% at 20-29 years, 0.011% at 30-39 years, 0.035% at 40-49 years, 0.123% at 50-59 years, and 0.506% at 60-69 years.

13 minutes ago, johng said:

 

The chances of dying where always very slim.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36341800/

 

The IFRs had a median of 0.034% (interquartile range (IQR) 0.013-0.056%) for the 0-59 years old population, and 0.095% (IQR 0.036-0.119%) for the 0-69 years old. The median IFR was 0.0003% at 0-19 years, 0.002% at 20-29 years, 0.011% at 30-39 years, 0.035% at 40-49 years, 0.123% at 50-59 years, and 0.506% at 60-69 years.

Again, it's not just dying that's the problem. My young and super healthy friend lost his taste for 2 years and still has issues.

On 6/18/2024 at 2:15 PM, Mike Lister said:

it's a matter of personal choice for which people shouldn't be criticised or ridiculed

Hallelujah!. I've waited 3 years for a vaxxed person to say that. 

1 minute ago, SenorTashi said:

Hallelujah!. I've waited 3 years for a vaxxed person to say that. 

Why is this so important? Bizarre.

1 minute ago, Roo Island said:

Why is this so important? Bizarre.

I've lost count of how many times the vaccinated have wished death and disease on me so to hear someone say 'each to their own' is quite refreshing.

31 minutes ago, johng said:

 

The chances of dying where always very slim.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36341800/

 

The IFRs had a median of 0.034% (interquartile range (IQR) 0.013-0.056%) for the 0-59 years old population, and 0.095% (IQR 0.036-0.119%) for the 0-69 years old. The median IFR was 0.0003% at 0-19 years, 0.002% at 20-29 years, 0.011% at 30-39 years, 0.035% at 40-49 years, 0.123% at 50-59 years, and 0.506% at 60-69 years.

 

A study from the same Stanford Univ. professor who predicted early on that the COVID pandemic would only cause 10,000 deaths in the U.S. -- with the actual number ending up at 1.2 million!

 

A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data

By John P.A. Ioannidis

March 17, 2020

...

"If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.”

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

 

Not to mention:

Dr. John Ioannidis: “The Biggest Mistakes I am Sure Are Mine.”

April 19, 2024

...

"While there’s a lot of competition, it’s hard to think of another scientist who was so wrong, early, so consistently, and so publicly.

...

During some of these appearances, Dr. Ioannidis told viewers to distrust everything they’d heard so far. In his appearance with Mr. Levin on April 2020, for example, he said that “the evidence we had early in the pandemic was utterly unreliable.” He said predictions of mass death were “completely off, it is just an astronomical error.” Dr. Ioannidis then told viewers he had newer and better data."

 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/mistakes/

On 6/17/2024 at 6:25 AM, Ben Zioner said:

masks should be mandatory

The land of smiles is finished forever in my opinion.

Now it's just the land of the crazy eyes.

People glare at me with their faraway stare and I can't 

tell if they're angry, happy or just insane, so I just ignore them.

 

 

57 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

I've lost count of how many times the vaccinated have wished death and disease on me so to hear someone say 'each to their own' is quite refreshing.

Well. Not being vaxxed kinda wishes death and disease on others. Vaxxed or not

5 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Well. Not being vaxxed kinda wishes death and disease on others. Vaxxed or not

Only if you choose to frame it like that.

55 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

People glare at me with their faraway stare and I can't 

tell if they're angry, happy or just insane,

I gave you a laugh but the above is spot on.

9 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Well. Not being vaxxed kinda wishes death and disease on others. Vaxxed or not

 

Please explain this.

8 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Well. Not being vaxxed kinda wishes death and disease on others. Vaxxed or not

No no no and no big "fing no"   being "vaxed" does not  prevent transmission they never tested for transmission  "at the speed of science" 

 

3 minutes ago, johng said:

No no no and no big "fing no"   being "vaxed" does not  prevent transmission they never tested for transmission  "at the speed of science" 

 

 

"At the speed of science", a.k.a. "making stuff up as we go along".

1 hour ago, Roo Island said:

Why is this so important? Bizarre.

Because they where demonising "unvaccinated" persons as if they where the devil incarnate   do you not remember ?   

Now its ohh well whatever...get over it.

No that is not acceptable they tried to cancel,debunk,de-bank,censor,gaslight and remove any descenting voice, that is not acceptable "just" or "democratic"  

that is tyrannous.

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

A study from the same Stanford Univ. professor who predicted early on that the COVID pandemic would only cause 10,000 deaths in the U.S. -- with the actual number ending up at 1.2 million!

 

A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data

By John P.A. Ioannidis

March 17, 2020

...

"If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.”

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

 

Not to mention:

Dr. John Ioannidis: “The Biggest Mistakes I am Sure Are Mine.”

April 19, 2024

...

"While there’s a lot of competition, it’s hard to think of another scientist who was so wrong, early, so consistently, and so publicly.

...

During some of these appearances, Dr. Ioannidis told viewers to distrust everything they’d heard so far. In his appearance with Mr. Levin on April 2020, for example, he said that “the evidence we had early in the pandemic was utterly unreliable.” He said predictions of mass death were “completely off, it is just an astronomical error.” Dr. Ioannidis then told viewers he had newer and better data."

 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/mistakes/

John, perhaps you have posted this information elsewhere and I have missed it, but what is regarded as the latest/best covid vaccine available in Thailand, in the North if you happen to know that also?

 

1 hour ago, SenorTashi said:

Hallelujah!. I've waited 3 years for a vaxxed person to say that. 

Remember "My body my choice"    flew straight out the window.

On 6/17/2024 at 6:52 AM, Mike Lister said:

despite five vaccinations.

Well make sure you get all the rest.."SAFE and EFFECTIVE"

15 minutes ago, johng said:

Because they where demonising "unvaccinated" persons as if they where the devil incarnate   do you not remember ?   

Now its ohh well whatever...get over it.

No that is not acceptable they tried to cancel,debunk,de-bank,censor,gaslight and remove any descenting voice, that is not acceptable "just" or "democratic"  

that is tyrannous.

 

A friendly reminder from 2021, about what our 'democracies' implemented:

Countries making COVID-19 vaccines mandatory

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/countries-making-covid-19-vaccines-mandatory-2021-08-16/

39 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

Only if you choose to frame it like that.

Scientists and medical professionals do.

35 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

John, perhaps you have posted this information elsewhere and I have missed it, but what is regarded as the latest/best covid vaccine available in Thailand, in the North if you happen to know that also?

 

 

Mike, the latest available vaccine here and elsewhere is the 2023-24 version aimed at the XBB variant that is no longer the main one circulating. In Thailand right now, AFAICT, only the Pfizer vaccine is available in that type. Last time I checked, I couldn't find anyone offering the comparable Moderna COVID vaccine here.  I don't think any other older versions are still available here.

 

The last update I did on all that was back in March, when as far as the central BKK authorities knew, only several locations in BKK were offering the newer Pfizer vaccine.  Though that may have changed/expanded since then. One place to start is by calling the Ministry of Public Health's COVID public hotline (where they do speak English) at phone 1422 and inquiring on the latest for your specific area. They may or may not know more...

 

Here was the prior recap relating to places in the BKK area:

 

 

Also, another forum member posted here recently about another location outside BKK in the North where he had obtained the newer Pfizer COVID vaccine:

 

"As of two week’s ago, Bangkok Hospital, Chiang Mai were offering Pfizer Comirnaty - ฿2,500 including vaccine, doctor’s fee and hospital fee. "

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329918-new-covid-sub-variant-kp2-on-the-rise-in-thailand/?do=findComment&comment=18996640

 

PS - Western countries like the U.S. and U.K. will have new version 2024-25 versions available starting this fall targeted the newer variants... Presumably those will become available for private purchase here in Thailand sometime thereafter. But with the current XBB version of the vaccines, their arrival in Thailand seemed to follow about 6 months behind their rollout in the west.

 

 

35 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Please explain this.

Not going to waste my time

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Mike, the latest available vaccine here and elsewhere is the 2023-24 version aimed at the XBB variant that is no longer the main one circulating. In Thailand right now, AFAICT, only the Pfizer vaccine is available in that type. Last time I checked, I couldn't find anyone offering the comparable Moderna COVID vaccine here.  I don't think any other older versions are still available here.

 

The last update I did on all that was back in March, when as far as the central BKK authorities knew, only several locations in BKK were offering the newer Pfizer vaccine.  Though that may have changed/expanded since then. One place to start is by calling the Ministry of Public Health's COVID public hotline (where they do speak English) at phone 1422 and inquiring on the latest for your specific area. They may or may not know more...

 

Here was the prior recap relating to places in the BKK area:

 

 

Also, another forum member posted here recently about another location outside BKK in the North where he had obtained the newer Pfizer COVID vaccine:

 

"As of two week’s ago, Bangkok Hospital, Chiang Mai were offering Pfizer Comirnaty - ฿2,500 including vaccine, doctor’s fee and hospital fee. "

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329918-new-covid-sub-variant-kp2-on-the-rise-in-thailand/?do=findComment&comment=18996640

 

Thanks John, I appreciate the information and your efforts on this topic.

35 minutes ago, johng said:

No no no and no big "fing no"   being "vaxed" does not  prevent transmission they never tested for transmission  "at the speed of science" 

 

Ummmmm....if you don't get get sick, you are not going to transmit the disease. Especially if your symptoms are mild and the time you are sick is reduced.

 

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2022/12/424546/covid-19-vaccines-prior-infection-reduce-transmission-omicron

 

Vaccination and boosting, especially when recent, helped to limit the spread of COVID-19 in California prisons during the first Omicron wave, according to an analysis by researchers at UC San Francisco that examined transmission between people living in the same cell. 

 

The study demonstrates the benefits of vaccination and boosting, even in settings where many people are still getting infected, in reducing transmission. And it shows the cumulative effects from boosting and the additional protection that vaccination gives to those who were previously infected. The likelihood of transmission fell by 11% for each additional dose.

10 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

A friendly reminder from 2021, about what our 'democracies' implemented:

Countries making COVID-19 vaccines mandatory

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/countries-making-covid-19-vaccines-mandatory-2021-08-16/

 

From that 2021 report:

 

"Dec 30 (Reuters) - Governments have been making COVID-19 shots mandatory for health workers and other high-risk groups, pushed by a sharp upturn in infections caused by the Delta variant and a slowdown in vaccinations, as well as the new Omicron variant.

 

A growing number of countries are also making shots compulsory for public servants and other workers."

 

And that was driven at the time by the following reality:

 

"WHO estimates that between 80 000 and 180 000 health and care workers could have died from COVID-19 in the period between January 2020 to May 2021, converging to a medium scenario of 115 500 deaths¹.

 

These deaths are a tragic loss. They are also an irreplaceable gap in the world’s pandemic response."

 

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-10-2021-health-and-care-worker-deaths-during-covid-19

 

8 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Not going to waste my time

 

Your inability to explain your rationale is duly noted.

8 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

 

I'll just go with what you said.. 'Not going to waste my time'.

I very rarely bother with covid conversations because all you guys think you know it all

and the rest of us know you don't and it's always just a boring stalemate