Thailand Refuses To Sign Document Of The Swiss 'Peace' Summit

[sqwakvfr]

22 hours ago, Brewster67 said:

Well done Thailand for refusing to sign the document of the outcome of the comical 'so called' 'Peace' summit in Lucerne, Switzerland...

 

They obviously were not going to be fooled that this comical collection of western leaders and low grade civil servants had any intention towards 'peace'.

 

In fact at no time whatsoever was there any attempt to discuss 'peace'... In fact it was nothing more than a staged platform for OUTGOING western leaders of the so-called free world to stand up on stage and criticise and threaten President Putin and Russia. It was also used as an excuse for the most corrupt politician on earth to continue to beg for money so he can buy more luxury multi-million dollar properties worldwide while he feeds his male (and female) population into a meat grinder for the benefit of creepy hair sniffing Joe Biden and Co.

 

So well done to Thailand for having principles and all those other countries who were not for one minute fooled.

 

 

Do you honestly belive this was an idenpendent decision by the Thai Government based upon logical, objective and rational thinking?  Or "big daddy in Beijing tell them which the wind blows"? 

[sungod]

3 hours ago, BobBKK said:

You MUST BE joking.   Do you know so LITTLE about this conflict that you don't even know the Donbas majority is Russian? 

The ignorance on here is astounding... it really is.

 Donbas is in Ukraine, end of.

 

You might need a geography lesson.

[JBChiangRai]

To understand where this conflict started, I think it's useful to look at the history.

 

In February 2014, Russian military covertly attacked and occupied Ukrainian Crimea, referred to as the influx of little green men (Wagner etc). Protests and unrests started in the East of Ukraine (Donbas), with researchers characterize as "unclear to what extent the protests in the east were initiated by local dissatisfaction with the situation in Kyiv, and to what extent they were organized and supported from Russia". In spring, "DPR" and "LPR" - two unrecognized statelets - were created in Ukrainian Donbas by Russian actors. There, the Kremlin government used some of its techniques it used before during the creation of separatist enclaves in Moldova and Georgia. Russia then processed to establish the narrative and negotiation position in order to trap the victims of Russian aggression and involve Western states in the logic of “frozen conflict” (Umland & Essen).

 

In the beginning of Summer 2014, Ukraine launched a counter-offensive, during which it initially reclaimed large parts of lost territory. Russia has been sending special forces operatives, irregulars and small groups of regular Russian forces until late August 2014, when for the first time Russia engaged large amount of unmarked regular military forces to help its proxies in Donbas. After a devastating defeat at Ilovaisk, Ukraine was forced to sign the Minsk Protocol, or the Minsk I.  A key part of Minsk I was "To withdraw illegal armed groups and military equipment as well as fighters and mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine." this was aimed at Russia with its opaque mercenaries and proxies eg Wagner, Russia ignored this requirement and broke the agreement with the laughable statement that they had none there.

[transam]

56 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

did you put your red nose on before writing that?

No, that is for clowns like yourself.....🤡

[DD86]

21 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I'm sorry to disappoint you, I don’t feel stupid at all, I can’t help it if I feel it is wrong for Putin to try and steal Crimea, Luhansk & Donetsk.

 

I can’t help but feel it’s wrong for Putin to put half a million people in their grave, both Russians and Ukrainians.  
 

Did you notice the countries who didn’t sign? BRICS aligned?

 

The world runs on a rules based order, dictators like Putin hold themselves above the law.

 

Putin is no different to Hitler and what he did with Czechoslovakia in 1938.

 

This is the 21st century, we should be well past land grabs by now.

 

Russia has to return all territory stolen since 2014.

Yes, you disappoint me. Have your mask over your eyes and ears?

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, DD86 said:

Yes, you disappoint me. Have your mask over your eyes and ears?

 

No, it's just I hold myself to a higher moral standard than perhaps you do.

[DD86]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

 

No, it's just I hold myself to a higher moral standard than perhaps you do.

Ah, the moral knight. Fine, lot's of success fighting the dragons.

[VBer]

31 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

To understand where this conflict started, I think it's useful to look at the history.

 

In February 2014, Russian military covertly attacked and occupied Ukrainian Crimea,

I think that you should start from begging, no? In begging of 2014 armed people at Kyiv overthrow the elected president (elected by whole Ukraine), and put in power some guy Turchinov, who didn't have any right to have presidential power. People at Crimea voted for president (and he won by majority of voters), but some armed protestors fueled by Victroria Nuland have decided that Crimea should be ruled by some unknown guy.

[animalmagic]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

 Oh, you mean like the Afghans?  Vietnamese?  Syrians?  Iraqis?  Kosovo?  I think I'm starting to get it... you mean it depends on WHO it is?  I think I got it - thank you.

Which horrible invaders were the Afghans defending against from 1979 to 1989?

[BobBKK]

15 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

Which horrible invaders were the Afghans defending against from 1979 to 1989?

 What's that got to do with it?  USA was humiliated - girls are back in Burkas, Taliban in control - the US simply is a bully. This is not about Ukraine at all.

[animalmagic]

4 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 Russia lost 27m fighting Hitler - do not insult their memory as you sit there with your Chang because of their sacrifice.

Russia lost 27 million due to a combination of factors. 

The psychopathic murderous leader of Russia at the time had done a deal with Hitler in order to facilitate Russia's annexation of Eastern Poland when Germany invaded. 

The paranoid leader at the time fell for disinformation from the Germans showing him that most of his officer corps were disloyal, so he had them rounded up and executed.

An army shorn of its best and brightest leaders was poorly led and could not respond to what was a new type of attack requiring quick thinking and exploitation of success.

Their most effective tactic was to throw thousands of soldiers at the Germans as the advance slowed; some of them were even given guns!  The others had to pick them up off their dead comrades.

The paranoid narcissistic leader at the time traded bodies and land space to slow down the German advance.

The paranoid narcissistic leader now trades bodies for land space!

I do not insult the memory of their sacrifice, just the memory of the people willing to sacrifice them for their own personal survival.

 

[animalmagic]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 What's that got to do with it?  USA was humiliated - girls are back in Burkas, Taliban in control - the US simply is a bully. This is not about Ukraine at all.

Was Russia not the invader who was humiliated during the period I quoted?  Were they welcomed with open arms? Did they leave as liberators and heroes?

The conversation is about Russia and your inability to accept any wrongdoing by them but simply quote others wrongdoing to absolve your beloved Russia; Russia seems to be as a big a bully as anyone else you cite.

[JBChiangRai]

37 minutes ago, VBer said:

I think that you should start from begging, no? In begging of 2014 armed people at Kyiv overthrow the elected president (elected by whole Ukraine), and put in power some guy Turchinov, who didn't have any right to have presidential power. People at Crimea voted for president (and he won by majority of voters), but some armed protestors fueled by Victroria Nuland have decided that Crimea should be ruled by some unknown guy.

 

OK, let's start from the beginning.

 

President Yanukovych came to power promising to continue the countries move towards closer ties to the EU and to move away from Russia.  In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests known as "Euromaidan" began in response to President Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia. Euromaidan soon developed into the largest democratic mass movement in Europe since 1989. Earlier that year the Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian parliament) had overwhelmingly approved finalizing the agreement; Russia had pressured Ukraine to reject it. The scope of the protests widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov government. Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of Russia and oligarchs, police brutality, human rights violations, and repressive anti-protest laws.

 

A large, barricaded protest camp occupied Independence Square in central Kyiv throughout the 'Maidan Uprising'. In January and February 2014, clashes between protesters and Berkut special riot police resulted in the deaths of 108 protesters and 13 police officers, and the wounding of many others. The first protesters were killed in fierce clashes with police on Hrushevsky Street on 19–22 January. Following this, protesters occupied government buildings throughout the country, and the Azarov government resigned. The deadliest clashes were on 18–20 February, which saw the most severe violence in Ukraine since it regained independence. Thousands of protesters advanced towards parliament, led by activists with shields and helmets, who were fired on by police snipers.

On 21 February, Yanukovych and the parliamentary opposition signed an agreement to bring about an interim unity government, constitutional reforms and early elections. Police abandoned central Kyiv that afternoon and the protesters took control. Yanukovych fled the city that evening. The next day, 22 February, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office by 328 to 0 (about 73% of the parliament's 450 members). Yanukovych claimed this vote was illegal and asked Russia for help. Russian propaganda described the events as a "coup".

 

Then we have my post on Crimea, Luhansk & Donetsk.

 

The Ukrainian parliament restored the 2004 amendments to the Ukrainian constitution. An interim government, led by Arseniy Yatsenyuk, signed the EU association agreement and disbanded the Berkut. Petro Poroshenko became president after winning the 2014 presidential elections. The new government began a removal of civil servants associated with the overthrown regime. There was also widespread decommunization and de-Sovietization of the country.

 

Is that better?

 

Postcript, there is a lot of propaganda about the Maidan uprising, especially coming from Russia.  If you want to know the truth, I would urge you to watch the film Maidan (2014).  It was entirely filmed DURING the uprising and therefore it is simply truth, of course the film is unknown, probably banned, in Russia.

 

 

[connda]

6 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

I suspect you're mostly/completely wrong.

There are plenty of westerners that are either anti-war, forever wars, weary of the fake narratives, lack of facts, the seemingly lack of the West taking any responsibility, and are simply not going along.  That does not make them Russians or pro-Putin, Putin apologists, pro-dictator, fascists or whatever smears get tossed around.

This war has been brewing for decades but the western news mostly wants you to believe Putin woke up one day and decided to invade Ukraine.  It's much more complicated than those "talking points".

This is why we are here.

Those whose only outlet on this forum is to call people names and recite Western media talking points like parrots (the same lines over and over and over and over..."Polly wants a cracker Awwwk!") really don't seem to command the intellect to defend their opinions.  It just ends up being, "You all are Putin's Puppets - Arrggghhh." 

Personally I don't care if someone is a complete Western ideologue as long as they can formulate a rational and well-thought out argument and defend it.  Debate is good. I love debate.  But there are not many on this forum who viscerally hate Russia, China, Iran, and all the other "Axis of Evil" countries whom their governments and media tells them that they must hate - no less explain why - without digressing to ad-hominid name calling, the use of worn-out pejoratives, and reciting GCHQ/BBC talking points verbatim.  It would be a breath of fresh-air if any of these people could at least quote their favorite neocons Russian-haters or back their diatribes with passages out of Foreign Affairs magazine or write a well-thought out paragraph explaining their position with original thought and personal analysis.

But instead:
"Russia is a aggressor nation and Russia needs to be defeated or else they will invade the EU and march right to Portugal. Putin woke up on February 24th 2022 and decided it was a good day to attack the peace-loving, highly moral, Democracy of Ukraine without provocation.  The ruble is rubble!  Russia has already lost the war!  And anyone who disagrees?  'You all are Putin's Puppets - Arrggghhh.'"    And Polly wants a cracker.

Over and over and over and vero and erov and rove and over and over again.....God it gets old.  Come on ideologues - change it up a little.  Make it interesting.  Show us your latent intellect and surprise the rest of us "Putin's Puppets."   

[harryviking]

7 hours ago, Dirk Z said:

Are you serious? Offering a choice after murdering his most strong opposer (Navalny) and locking up the rest?

We have either Russians with western names or a bunch of western brainwashed trolls. I guess i had to happen sooner or later. 

[connda]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

You MUST BE joking.   Do you know so LITTLE about this conflict that you don't even know the Donbas majority is Russian? 

The ignorance on here is astounding... it really is.

Most of those who really hate Russia (and all other countries whom their governments tell them to hate) don't know the first thing about the Ukraine's history, or Russian history, or that of the USSR, or that of Novorossiya, nor the ethnic makeup of Ukraine population or any history of the region.  Based on what they write here they read nothing longer than a newspaper article or two, and then only from an "authoritative Western newspaper which only prints the God-honest Western liberal democracy's truth."  Most likely though, they limit their understanding of history to the "news" they listen to on Western cable news or the likes of BBC. They are essentially ignorant, and willfully so. Which means they have no understanding of the basis of the conflict at all.  And it shows.

You notice that most of them can't write anything longer than a couple of sentences, most of which is name-calling or the recitation of Western MSM talking point which they are adept at reciting verbatim.  That passes as debate nowadays.

There once was a time on TV 40 to 50 years ago when debate on TV was actual, civil debate.  That all ended over the last 25 years when TV has become Entertainment-News where people just scream at each other and call each other names. So it's easy to see where the current crop of cable-news-network parroting ideologues have gotten their education from. 

It's pretty sad imho. 

[MikeN]

On 6/17/2024 at 4:31 PM, Brewster67 said:

 

So well done to Thailand for having principles and all those other countries who were not for one minute fooled.

 

 

Thailand and having principles in the one sentence shows that you are easily fooled.

the only thing that Thailand cares about is to continue milking all those Russian tourists for every baht possible.

[Geir Rasch]

7 hours ago, BobBKK said:

You MUST BE joking.   Do you know so LITTLE about this conflict that you don't even know the Donbas majority is Russian? 

The ignorance on here is astounding... it really is.

But that does not mean that the same people want to be a part of Russia!

[connda]

4 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Of course there is no hell in buddhism

You're not Buddhist I see.  Oh yes, there is a rich pantheon of Heaven, Hell, and all points in-between in Buddhist cosmetology.  Start here:

 

 

[Mason45]

My best friends parents were from the Ukraine, they did a runner around WW2 time and my friend was born in Germany. They emigrated to Australia in the early 50's. My friends mum was a lovely old lady who used to cry telling me what she went through as a young girl. Forced prostitution, torture and starvation where the main issues as she was brought up as a Roman Catholic.

[animalmagic]

7 hours ago, transam said:

Nothing to do with that, stupid, Putin is now doing a Hitler, silly fools like you can't see it.......MURDER, BLITZKRIEG ..............☠️..........

I'm not sure a special military operation scheduled to last 2 weeks, but still going 28 months later, can be classed as Blitzkrieg!

[connda]

Let's put things into perspective.

There are 193 countries in the United Nations.
100 countries out of that 193 attended the Swiss "Peace" Summit.
Out of those 100 countries, only 78 signed the "peace plan."

So out of the 193 countries world-wide only 52% showed up and only 40% of the countries in the UN signed the document.  I wouldn't call that a mandate.  To put it another way, 60% ignored the sham "peace summit plan" altogether. 

At least Thailand showed up.  Then they get mocked for not signing?  They are in good company with the majority of the world.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, connda said:

Let's put things into perspective.

There are 193 countries in the United Nations.
100 countries out of that 193 attended the Swiss "Peace" Summit.
Out of those 100 countries, only 78 signed the "peace plan."

So out of the 193 countries world-wide only 52% showed up and only 40% of the countries in the UN signed the document.  I wouldn't call that a mandate.  To put it another way, 60% ignored the sham "peace summit" altogether. 

At least Thailand showed up.  Then they get mocked for not signing?  They are in good company with the majority of the world.

Don't you want peace? Don't you want Ukraine to get its territory back?

[Mason45]

I'm sure Thai's decision will shock the World.

[connda]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Don't you want peace? Don't you want Ukraine to get its territory back?

1. Yes
2. No. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, connda said:

1. Yes
2. No. 

Oh ok, you want the war to stop and Ukraine to be under Russian occupation. They don't want that, its their home.

[connda]

Russia isn't going to accept the Swiss plan.
Ukraine isn't going to accept the Russian plan.

Let the chips fall where they may.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Russia isn't going to accept the Swiss plan.
Ukraine isn't going to accept the Russian plan.

Let the chips fall where they may.

Easy for you to say that, the Ukrainians are real people not chips, who are not going to surrender to an aggressor and give up control of their own country.

[frank83628]

7 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 Oh, you mean like the Afghans?  Vietnamese?  Syrians?  Iraqis?  Kosovo?  I think I'm starting to get it... you mean it depends on WHO it is?  I think I got it - thank you.

yes, basically whomever  the western politicians and media tell them to hate, they run for the pitchforks!

[frank83628]

6 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

This may not apply to LOS but it is a famous and old saying from Dante: "There is a special place reserved in hell for those who remain neutral during a moral crisis".  Of course there is no hell in buddhism but most of us getting the meaning.  Ironically China seems to think the same about Ukraine.  What if the country was not Ukraine but Taiwan? Then it would be crystal clear.

it would depend if it were backed by the US & UK, if it was then you know something is fishy..its all about oil, minerals, or recourses, but certainly not freedom and democracy for the people