How will it end?

[ChicagoExpat]

24 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

Which falls way short of calling out Putin for being the aggressor and for "doing wrong". You imply (actually it seems like you fully agree) that Putin is fully the right to invade and that all of the deaths incurred are of Ukraine's doing.

 

Therefore your calls on Ukraine to basically just give up are made from a position of great bias. Of course you could always say the say about myself and others who hold the opposite view.

Like all of the pro-Russia guys, he claims to be neutral.  Just, you know, a guy who wants peace.  Yet ALWAYS argues the Russian position.

[BobBKK]

22 hours ago, bubblegum said:

Why the far right is on Putin's side I cannot comprehend. 

 What 'far right'?

[ChicagoExpat]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I count myself fortunate to have lived in the only continent on the planet not blighted by militaristic BS, and where all the countries that inhabit it get along together just fine, whatever their policies elsewhere- Antarctica. People can get along without trying to kill each other, if they want to.

You should watch "The Thing", with Kurt Russell.  Antarctica isn't so safe.

 

And not to start a brand new fight, but Russia is screwing this up too https://www.forbes.com/sites/saleemali/2024/05/25/russias-oil-foray-in-antarctica-threatens-science-diplomacy/

[DrJack54]

Some duplicate posts removed

[Dcheech]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't care as to the reason for stopping the money conveyor belt to Ukraine as long as it stops. IMO it was a war that should never have happened.

IMO it's just not worth western treasure that should have been used to better the lives of western taxpayers. No one ever asked them if they preferred bullets for Ukraine over a better life for themselves and their children.

No need to pretend you care about taxpayers in foreign countries. However, as a US taxpayer, this is money well spent. $200 billion over two years for the US, so 0.5% of GDP per year to see a war that should have lasted THREE WEEKS, drag on over years, more countries joining NATO, Russian military exposed as a laughingstock and suffering hundreds of thousands of casualties. As long as Ukraine wants to fight we should support them. Cheap money for all the damage it's done to Russia's (and Putin's) standing in the world.

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:40 PM by Dcheech

[Gweiloman]

21 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Certainly Ukraine can win.  Underdogs often win.  They need to outlast the invader.  Just ask Afghanistan (and Russia, the U.S.) or Vietnam, or many other nations.

Absolutely. It’s called the “Hope” strategy.

[Gweiloman]

13 hours ago, Dcheech said:

No need to pretend you care about taxpayers in foreign countries. However, as a US taxpayer, this is money well spent. $200 billion over two years for the US, so 0.5% of GDP per year to see a war that should have lasted THREE WEEKS, drag on over years, more countries joining NATO, Russian military exposed as a laughingstock and suffering hundreds of thousands of casualties. As long as Ukraine wants to fight we should support them. Cheap money for all the damage it's done to Russia's (and Putin's) standing in the world.

 

Wow. What a first class example of how effective propaganda can be on some.

 

Russia’s military maybe a laughing stock and yet day by day, they are pushing the strongest NATO army backwards. What the conflict has definitely demonstrated is the (in)efficiency of himars, atacms, storm shadows, Bradley’s, leopards, abrams etc etc. let’s see how the F15/16? do.

 

Russia may be suffering hundreds of thousands of casualties. How about Ukraine? Or do you believe Zelensky’s claim of 30,000?

 

In the meantime, Russia has become a high income country with a GNI of 11%. And Russia’s standing with the global majority is getting stronger with more and more countries wanting to join BRICS.

[BobBKK]

15 hours ago, Dcheech said:

No need to pretend you care about taxpayers in foreign countries. However, as a US taxpayer, this is money well spent. $200 billion over two years for the US, so 0.5% of GDP per year to see a war that should have lasted THREE WEEKS, drag on over years, more countries joining NATO, Russian military exposed as a laughingstock and suffering hundreds of thousands of casualties. As long as Ukraine wants to fight we should support them. Cheap money for all the damage it's done to Russia's (and Putin's) standing in the world.

 

 
Great strategy, eh?  Don't defend your own borders and go and spend billions defending someone else's in a place far, far away. Only someone who's senile would come up with that... oh wait...

[rabas]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Wow. What a first class example of how effective propaganda can be on some.

 

Russia’s military maybe a laughing stock and yet day by day, they are pushing the strongest NATO army backwards. What the conflict has definitely demonstrated is the (in)efficiency of himars, atacms, storm shadows, Bradley’s, leopards, abrams etc etc. let’s see how the F15/16? do.

 

Russia may be suffering hundreds of thousands of casualties. How about Ukraine? Or do you believe Zelensky’s claim of 30,000?

 

In the meantime, Russia has become a high income country with a GNI of 11%. And Russia’s standing with the global majority is getting stronger with more and more countries wanting to join BRICS.

 

Moscow TImes (July 2, 2024😞

 

The World Bank upgraded Russia to a “high-income” country with per-capita gross GNI totaling $14,250 in 2023.

 

Bulgaria and Palau joined Russia in becoming “high-income economies” with $14,460 and $14,250 per-capita GNI, respectively.

 

In nominal terms, Russia ranks 72nd in per-capita GNI. A true powerhouse. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/3/2024 at 4:18 PM, ChicagoExpat said:

Certainly Ukraine can win.  Underdogs often win.  They need to outlast the invader.  Just ask Afghanistan (and Russia, the U.S.) or Vietnam, or many other nations.

Afghanistan and Vietnam defeated the US and allies with peasants armed with AK47s and RPGs. The rulers were prepared to let as many die as necessary to outlast the US and allies.

The situation in Ukraine is different as they don't have the manpower willing to die, and it is a tech war. It only takes the west to stop providing the tech and it's over.

 

Perhaps you can come up with a more valid reason as to how Ukraine can win.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

You should watch "The Thing", with Kurt Russell.  Antarctica isn't so safe.

 

And not to start a brand new fight, but Russia is screwing this up too https://www.forbes.com/sites/saleemali/2024/05/25/russias-oil-foray-in-antarctica-threatens-science-diplomacy/

That was a good movie. BTW it wasn't the first "Thing" movie. There is an earlier version in black and white. The Thing from Another World, sometimes referred to as just The Thing, is a 1951 American black-and-white science fiction-horror film.

 

Oh, I had a few battles with "things"- bureaucratic bumblers that could very well be lizards in human skin, but no one died in those conflicts. Unfortunately the "things" won the war, but that's for a different thread.

 

Of course Russia is screwing it up, just as Ukraine, the US, the UK and assorted western countries are screwing it up. Wars never go according to plan, and usually the "plan" goes amiss soon as the first bullet is fired.

 

IMO eventually the West will realise that they can't afford it any more and then the fat lady will be singing.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Afghanistan and Vietnam defeated the US and allies with peasants armed with AK47s and RPGs. The rulers were prepared to let as many die as necessary to outlast the US and allies.

The situation in Ukraine is different as they don't have the manpower willing to die, and it is a tech war. It only takes the west to stop providing the tech and it's over.

 

Perhaps you can come up with a more valid reason as to how Ukraine can win.

Sweet tea, today is the 4th of July. 

The Americans would have never kicked out the British without the support of France.

 

Next

...

 

[rabas]

Russian economy:  Elvira Nabiullina, head of Russia's central bank sounded ominous notes for the economy at a July 3 financial conference in Saint Petersburg. Note, she was against invading Ukraine for economic reasons and resigned only to be forced not to by Putin.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/3/2024 at 4:20 PM, ChicagoExpat said:

That's not how government works.  Each citizen doesn't get a line item vote on each bit of spending.  And it's help Ukraine fight Russia now, or help NATO fight Russia later when it invades a NATO state.  Not a hard choice.

The only time a country should support a war that isn't against them, is if it is given public support. Tax payers money belongs to them, not some far off country that doesn't have a treaty requiring support.

 

I see you have swallowed the propaganda about helping Ukraine fight Russia now, or help NATO fight Russia later when it invades a NATO state. Russia is unlikely to invade any country that can unleash nuclear winter.

[rabas]

More Russian economy

 

XM: Russian central bank vows to contain inflation as weekly prices soar

BI: Russia's top central banker warns of higher inflation as Putin's military draft tightens the labor market

TASS: Bank of Russia to take all measures for low inflation — Central Bank chief

 

"The dramatic cut of the key rate and unpredictable high inflation "are capable of destroying long-term lending," Elvira Nabiullina noted"

[BobBKK]

31 minutes ago, rabas said:

More Russian economy

 

XM: Russian central bank vows to contain inflation as weekly prices soar

BI: Russia's top central banker warns of higher inflation as Putin's military draft tightens the labor market

TASS: Bank of Russia to take all measures for low inflation — Central Bank chief

 

"The dramatic cut of the key rate and unpredictable high inflation "are capable of destroying long-term lending," Elvira Nabiullina noted"

 You are all about confirmation bias and no outside-the-box thinking.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68823399

Edited Thursday at 06:33 AM by BobBKK

[rabas]

10 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 You are all about confirmation bias and no outside-the-box thinking.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68823399

 

Good god! I quoted the head of Russia's Central Bank herself! I even reference TASS (Russian state media). 

 

You label me and others narrow minded MSM junkies, then you quote a Western MSM clickbait article because you like it.
 

FACT. Russia's GDP anomaly was mostly due to a jump in war time spending that also follows a prior GDP crash (recession 2022) Not experienced by other countries. This was explained elsewhere.

[BobBKK]

14 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Good god! I quoted the head of Russia's Central Bank herself! I even reference TASS (Russian state media). 

 

You label me and others narrow minded MSM junkies, then you quote a Western MSM clickbait article because you like it.
 

FACT. Russia's GDP anomaly was mostly due to a jump in war time spending that also follows a prior GDP crash (recession 2022) Not experienced by other countries. This was explained elsewhere.

 FACT: The US and Europe were predicting that sanctions would hit Russia HARD, but they did not. All she said was, "We will try and keep inflation low" Good God, man, every country's central bank official will say the same - stop cherry-picking.

Russia has recorded robust growth since the economic contraction of 2022, surpassing many expert forecasts. Rosstat, Russia’s national statistics agency, reported a growth rate of 3.6 percent for the Russian economy in 2023 while the International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimated growth at around 3 percent. The IMF has thus revised its forecast for 2024 upward to 2.6 percent given the Russian economy’s strong performance last year. 

Edited Thursday at 07:47 AM by BobBKK

[transam]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 FACT: The US and Europe were predicting that sanctions would hit Russia HARD, but they did not. All she said was, "We will try and keep inflation low" Good God, man, every country's central bank official will say the same - stop cherry-picking.

Very funny, "did not"...................🤣

How's your "second's" munitions

from N. Korea going, not well I read...........😆

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Very funny, "did not"...................🤣

How's your "second's" munitions

from N. Korea going, not well I read...........😆

All good...

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics/russia-artillery-shell-production-us-europe-ukraine/index.html

[transam]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

All good...

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics/russia-artillery-shell-production-us-europe-ukraine/index.html

Yeh, riiiiight......😂

[Seppius]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The only time a country should support a war that isn't against them, is if it is given public support. Tax payers money belongs to them, not some far off country that doesn't have a treaty requiring support.

 

I see you have swallowed the propaganda about helping Ukraine fight Russia now, or help NATO fight Russia later when it invades a NATO state. Russia is unlikely to invade any country that can unleash nuclear winter.

 

But do you want Russia controlling "The Grain Basket of Europe"? I would say Europeans don't, and will fight to stop that happening

[Gweiloman]

17 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 FACT: The US and Europe were predicting that sanctions would hit Russia HARD, but they did not. All she said was, "We will try and keep inflation low" Good God, man, every country's central bank official will say the same - stop cherry-picking.

Russia has recorded robust growth since the economic contraction of 2022, surpassing many expert forecasts. Rosstat, Russia’s national statistics agency, reported a growth rate of 3.6 percent for the Russian economy in 2023 while the International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimated growth at around 3 percent. The IMF has thus revised its forecast for 2024 upward to 2.6 percent given the Russian economy’s strong performance last year. 

Russia’s trade jumped by nearly 7 per cent last year, while activities in the financial sector and construction grew by 6.6 per cent and 3.6 per cent, respectively

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, Seppius said:

 

But do you want Russia controlling "The Grain Basket of Europe"? I would say Europeans don't, and will fight to stop that happening

Aren’t European farmers protesting about grain imports from Ukraine? Just imagine if the EU were to control it instead. It would be weaponised in the blink of an eye so I reckon the global majority would prefer if Russia controlled it.

[KhunLA]

21 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Aren’t European farmers protesting about grain imports from Ukraine? Just imagine if the EU were to control it instead. It would be weaponised in the blink of an eye so I reckon the global majority would prefer if Russia controlled it.

Yes, many major protest, and not just EU, but you won't see them on MSM, unless part of their spin.   Sad you need to go to platforms like X for 'free expression'.  News & updates from people actually there.  Not from the controlled sources ... when entertainment mirrors reality ...

 

 

Edited Friday at 01:43 AM by KhunLA

[rabas]

37 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Aren’t European farmers protesting about grain imports from Ukraine? Just imagine if the EU were to control it instead. It would be weaponised in the blink of an eye so I reckon the global majority would prefer if Russia controlled it.

 

Russian control = stealing and blowing up whatever it can, with real weapons.  The global majority surely wants a free Ukraine so grain is not destroyed.

 

Bloomberg:  [LINK]  Ukrainian grain Exports from the last season's harvest, Russia stole or destroyed 4.04 million tons of grain and oilseeds valued at about $1.9 billion in Ukrainian territories

 

BBC: Satellite images reveal damage to Ukraine grain ports

 

100s more. 

[ChicagoExpat]

On 7/4/2024 at 9:06 AM, Gweiloman said:

Absolutely. It’s called the “Hope” strategy.

And sometimes it works.  Ask the Chinese when they invaded Vietnam.

[ChicagoExpat]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The only time a country should support a war that isn't against them, is if it is given public support. Tax payers money belongs to them, not some far off country that doesn't have a treaty requiring support.

 

I see you have swallowed the propaganda about helping Ukraine fight Russia now, or help NATO fight Russia later when it invades a NATO state. Russia is unlikely to invade any country that can unleash nuclear winter.

By your standard we should never have helped stop Germany in either of the world wars as neither of those had overwhelming public support at the time we were helping.  I'd bet, if such data exist, that public support for Ukraine is higher both now and 2 years ago than public support for entering either world war at the time.  And sometimes politicians have to, you know, lead and do the right thing, polls be damned.  Stopping Russia's unwarranted aggression is the right thing.

 

I see you've swallowed the Kremlin agitprop and completely ignored both Russia's record over the past 10 years or so and the possibility that Putin will gamble that Europe will not go to war over one Baltic country at a time.  Russia has already laid the public propaganda groundwork for invasion of those nations under the same criteria as its interventions in other nations.

 

You're incredibly naïve if you think Russia wouldn't take other countries if it could.  Russia public statements show this, their proxy voices show this, their national philosophy calls for it, and most importantly, their actions show it.  You know all this, though, and claiming otherwise is a key part of the "Russia didn't want this warm NATO neocons forced them into it" blatant lie.

[ChicagoExpat]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Afghanistan and Vietnam defeated the US and allies with peasants armed with AK47s and RPGs. The rulers were prepared to let as many die as necessary to outlast the US and allies.

The situation in Ukraine is different as they don't have the manpower willing to die, and it is a tech war. It only takes the west to stop providing the tech and it's over.

 

Perhaps you can come up with a more valid reason as to how Ukraine can win.

Wow, you're pretty ignorant of both the Vietnam War and Russia's invasion of Afghanistan.  Vietnam -- full support from Russia and China, which included MIGs, antiaircraft guns and missiles, weapons, advisors, etc.  The NVA was a well-trained army thanks to foreign intervention.  Afghanistan had Stingers, weapons, etc from the U.S.

 

Ukraine is supplying sufficient men to kill Russians quite efficiently, both via tech and in the trenches.

 

The reason I gave was valid and remains valid.  Your enthusiastic support of Russia notwithstanding.

[ChicagoExpat]

On 7/3/2024 at 2:04 PM, DrJack54 said:

Some duplicate posts removed

thanks!