Thai Hotels Object to 75% Foreign Condo Ownership Proposal

[jonclark]

 

36 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Chaipattananon voiced strong objections, arguing that increased foreign ownership would allow condos to be rented out on a daily basis, thereby directly competing with hotels and causing potential price wars

One of the most ridiculous statements. Increased ownerships by Thais could also lead to more condos being rented on a daily out also??? 

[newnative]

27 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I suspect the condo building industry has greater clout.

     The condo building industry may have greater clout but, I think, less incentive to use it with this issue.   In the example I just posted, the condo builder sold 40 units to the Chinese man.  The builder was happy to sell the units, get the project sold, and move on to the next project, with likely no thought given to how those 40 units were going to be used.

[ikke1959]

THan the problem is that there is no control how the condo's are used..so illegal hotels should be closed, but here in Thailand with the attitude of mai pen rai everything is possible. and than with the corrupt RTP, and officials no wonder it is a mess... But change the rules because it is a mess is a bit strange... enforce it, check it and close down when not according to the laws. Why must always the rich being helped

[mokwit]

24 minutes ago, newnative said:

     The condo building industry may have greater clout but, I think, less incentive to use it with this issue.   In the example I just posted, the condo builder sold 40 units to the Chinese man.  The builder was happy to sell the units, get the project sold, and move on to the next project, with likely no thought given to how those 40 units were going to be used.

The problem they have is that they need buyers. I think they are well aware that intended ST lets are driving many purchases, even if by owners with unrealistic expectations regarding occupancy and the extent that they can defray cost with ST lets. In my building until recently and maybe still, the juristic person front desk staff handled things for ST letters. Also agents do 1 month lets PoA (one assumes), and you can also sub let to someone who ST lets.

 

AirBnB is a cheap holiday at residents expense. Every AirBnB tenant knows they are not wanted by residents. They brazenly walk past the no ST lets signs (unless of course they are using the fire escape to enter and leave). On the few occasions when I have seen them apprehended and the start of their holiday ruined, I have no sympathy.

Edited June 25 by mokwit

[mokwit]

16 minutes ago, jonclark said:

 

One of the most ridiculous statements. Increased ownerships by Thais could also lead to more condos being rented on a daily out also??? 

Playing the Thai Patriot card to make their cause more difficult to counter.

[bradiston]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

 

The Thai Hotels Association (THA) has openly criticised the government's plan to permit foreign ownership of up to 75% in condominium units. The association fears the proposal could spark fierce price competition and disrupt the hospitality market. The concerns were voiced during a recent meeting focusing on key industry issues.

 

At the meeting, Tourism and Sports Minister, Sermsak Pongpanich, outlined Thailand's tourism direction and government policies aimed at supporting the sector. He invited association members to openly discuss their challenges and provide feedback.

 

One of the central issues raised was the government’s consideration to increase foreign ownership limits in condominiums from 49% to 75%. According to the THA, this change poses a significant threat to their industry.

 

Tianprasert Chaipattananon, President of the THA, stated that the Ministry of Finance is preparing to propose this policy to the Cabinet. Chaipattananon voiced strong objections, arguing that increased foreign ownership would allow condos to be rented out on a daily basis, thereby directly competing with hotels and causing potential price wars.

 

 

The association highlighted the disparity in management costs between legally registered and unregistered hotels, noting that the former incurs significantly higher costs. There are currently over 40,000 hotels listed on online travel agency (OTA) platforms, yet only about 15,000 to 16,000 are legally registered. The rest, around 25,000, operate without proper registration.

 

If the Cabinet approves the policy, the market could see a surge in condos available for daily rental, heightening competition. There is also concern that the remaining 25% ownership could be exploited by foreign nominees, effectively bypassing the ownership cap.

 

The meeting ended with a strong call for the government to reconsider the proposed policy based on its potential negative impacts on the hotel industry and broader economic repercussions. The association emphasised the need for a balanced approach that supports foreign investment while ensuring the viability of local businesses.

 

File photo courtesy: Wikipedia

 

-- 2024-06-25

 

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Elsewhere, CBRE reported the hike to 75% was sheer PR, aka BS, as very few condos get near the 49% quota uptake. They said the maximum was around 40%, with many foreigner quotas remaining seriously unfilled. From a source that can't be named.

[newnative]

10 minutes ago, mokwit said:

The problem they have is that they need buyers. I think they are well aware that intended ST lets are driving many purchases, even if by owners with unrealistic expectations regarding occupancy and the extent that they can defray cost with ST lets. In my building until recently and maybe still, the juristic person front desk staff handled things for ST letters.

 

AirBnB is a cheap holiday at residents expense. Every AirBnB tenant knows they are not wanted by residents. They brazenly walk past the no ST lets signs (unless of course they are using the fire escape to enter and leave). On the few occasions when I have seen them apprehended and the start of their holiday ruined, I have no sympathy.

     Totally agree.  I think there are glimmers of hope here and there.  At one condo project I owned at (not the one in my other post), the management is now making an effort, this after being very lenient in the first years of the new project when I lived there.  New technologies, if adopted by a project, can make the illegal renters have a more difficult time getting in and out, and make it more difficult for the owners doing the illegal rentals.

[newnative]

59 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Elsewhere, CBRE reported the hike to 75% was sheer PR, aka BS, as very few condos get near the 49% quota uptake. They said the maximum was around 40%, with many foreigner quotas remaining seriously unfilled. From a source that can't be named.

Likely true for a lot of places but not Pattaya, especially for desirable projects.

[mokwit]

16 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Totally agree.  I think there are glimmers of hope here and there.  At one condo project I owned at (not the one in my other post), the management is now making an effort, this after being very lenient in the first years of the new project when I lived there.  New technologies, if adopted by a project, can make the illegal renters have a more difficult time getting in and out, and make it more difficult for the owners doing the illegal rentals.

The problem is if the majority bought to rent and live elsewhere, then there is no resolve. I guarantee if we installed facial recognition the owners who ST let would crawl out of the woodwork to vote at meetings to have it abolished. The best we can hope for is to have all "tenants" officially registered with passport details, rather than this free for all where we don't know who the hell they are and they are coming and going with copied key cards, following on behind other tenants at the security doors, and sneaking up and down the fire escapes. Our security company has a a very different view on what constitutes security provision to the residents. Don't get me wrong, they are nice people, they will open the door with their keycard if someone asks them. They are not there just to wave at people coming past with wheelie luggage, they even help them with it sometimes.

Edited June 25 by mokwit

[newnative]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

The problem is if the majority bought to rent and live elsewhere, then there is no resolve. I guarantee if we installed facial recognition the owners who ST let would crawl out of the woodwork to vote at meetings to have it abolished. The best we can hope for is to have all "tenants" officially registered with passport details, rather than this free for all where we don't know who the hell they are and they are coming and going with copied key cards, following on behind other tenants at the security doors, and sneaking up and down the fire escapes. Our security company has a a very different view on what constitutes security provision to the tenants. Don't get me wrong, they are nice people, they will open the door with their keycard if someone asks them. They are not there just to wave at people coming past with wheelie luggage, they even help them with it sometimes.

      Yes, that's the problem with trying to get anything done--owner-residents vs. investors doing ST rentals.  And, more of a problem, in many cases, with newer, large projects with lots of the smaller-size condos new projects have, vs. older projects with fewer and larger unit sizes.  And, easier for investors to buy blocks of small condos in new projects.  Northshore in Pattaya has less than 200 units, with the smallest unit 64 sqm.  New projects often have 1000 units and 64 sqm would be one of the largest units, in a project of mostly 25 to 35 sqm units.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

Likely true for a lot of places but not Pattaya, especially for desirable projects.

What's your source?

[BobBKK]

I really wish our governments would respond in kind. They might wake up then.

[kinyara]

Yet another admission that the lack of an effective law enforcement body is negatively affecting legitimate operations. The bad news for the head of the Thai Hotels Association is that his industry's problem doesn't go away even if you maintain the current ownership ratio let alone increase it. So how about pressuring this government to do something about that issue. No hope there unsurprisingly given the slow return to normal being playing out currently.

 

If the situation is as bad as he says, objecting to an increase of foreign % ownership on that basis should be a source of national embarrassment given tourism is one of the main drivers of the economy.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

What's your source?

    Primarily personal experience in trying to buy desirable condos in foreign quota in Pattaya for the past 14 years.  As soon as we heard about the 75% proposal, my spouse and I joked that there will be a stampede of Northshore owners switching their company-owned condos to foreign quota.

[john donson]

how long would AI take to check those websites offering rooms with a database at some government office where they are supposed to be registered and filtered out the one's operating without license and sending the men in brown to go collect ?

[jonclark]

21 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Yeah then the Chinese mafia just buys 75% and then buys 25% in Thai people their names, who they control, now they run a building.

Why would the chinese mafia spend a huge sum of money buying an entire condo block? All mafias whilst being criminal organisations are essentially designed to make money. How would buying an entire condo block be a good business move??

[shdmn]

Serious question.  How would this increase competition with hotels?  Can people not already rent out Thai registered condos to foreigners? 

Edited June 25 by shdmn

[Henryford]

1 hour ago, shdmn said:

Serious question.  How would this increase competition with hotels?  Can people not already rent out Thai registered condos to foreigners? 

 

Answered already. Condos should only be rented for 30 days + which is not competition for hotels. If more condos are rented, illegally, daily/weekly that is massive competition for local hotels.

[shdmn]

44 minutes ago, Henryford said:

 

Answered already. Condos should only be rented for 30 days + which is not competition for hotels. If more condos are rented, illegally, daily/weekly that is massive competition for local hotels.

 How would anything change with less than 30 day rentals if the foreign ownership quota increased?  I am pretty sure lots of those are thai registered.  A lot of condo buildings don't allow less than 30 days anyways.

Edited June 26 by shdmn

[bradiston]

15 hours ago, newnative said:

    Primarily personal experience in trying to buy desirable condos in foreign quota in Pattaya for the past 14 years.  As soon as we heard about the 75% proposal, my spouse and I joked that there will be a stampede of Northshore owners switching their company-owned condos to foreign quota.

Fair enough. But what "figures" to trust? Your observations are probably as good as any real estate agents in the area. But somewhere there has to be a record of quota uptake in order to monitor it. Does condo management have to report this stuff, if they have access to it? My little old condo in Pratamnak is oversubscribed by foreigners. I believe the figure is about 55-45% in "favour" of foreigners. Brown envelopes at land registry go a long way. Luckily my daughter is Thai so ...

[KhunLA]

Big surprise.   Aside from the illegal hotel rooms, they don't want people to have vacation homes here, and simply rent from their overpriced properties.

 

Why timeshares were popular days past, before silly priced.   I bought one, least expense I could find, along with least expensive maintenance/tax fees.   Used mainly for trading for much better properties, as didn't really plan on using the 'week' I owned at the timeshare.  

 

Surprisingly I did use quite a bit, and even rented spares they had, as it was perfectly located, fronting Boca Raton beach, FL.  Trading was where it was at, and saved big $$$ vs hotel stays.  

 

Never really stayed in hotels till I worked for airlines, and hotels & car rental extended huge discount to airline employees.  Did a lot of camping, pre airlines work.   Would do it here/TH if not for the heat.  AC guesthouses are simply too inexpensive, and EnSuite is nice, with my prostate.  Can't see wondering off to P at night, with the amount of snakes here 

[newnative]

5 hours ago, bradiston said:

Fair enough. But what "figures" to trust? Your observations are probably as good as any real estate agents in the area. But somewhere there has to be a record of quota uptake in order to monitor it. Does condo management have to report this stuff, if they have access to it? My little old condo in Pratamnak is oversubscribed by foreigners. I believe the figure is about 55-45% in "favour" of foreigners. Brown envelopes at land registry go a long way. Luckily my daughter is Thai so ...

    We've always checked with the Juristic for foreign quota available at any condo project we have been interested in.  

[Purdey]

I have two condos that I converted into one. I don't see the big deal. But if the fear is that one foreigner could buy 75% of a building, simply limit the number of units that one person or company can buy in the same building.

[Ralf001]

Hmmm.... thinking of coming to Thailand for a two week holiday.

 

Should I book a hotel room or buy a condo.

 

The dilema weighs heavily on my shoulders.

[bradiston]

48 minutes ago, newnative said:

    We've always checked with the Juristic for foreign quota available at any condo project we have been interested in.  

Sure, but how many have you checked? How many is it possible to check without visiting every single condo in Thailand? We're talking nationally, not just locally. And as somebody pointed out, the figures will vary wildly. I imagine CBRE manage the high end of the market. Maybe they have access to data we don't. There's been no challenge to their observations as far as i know. No ministry has objected. Probably completely clueless but the idea looked attractive. Just like all their badly researched ideas. Also, this would be crucial data for construction firms to consider. What's selling, and to whom.

Edited June 26 by bradiston

[newnative]

55 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Sure, but how many have you checked? How many is it possible to check without visiting every single condo in Thailand? We're talking nationally, not just locally. And as somebody pointed out, the figures will vary wildly. I imagine CBRE manage the high end of the market. Maybe they have access to data we don't. There's been no challenge to their observations as far as i know. No ministry has objected. Probably completely clueless but the idea looked attractive. Just like all their badly researched ideas. Also, this would be crucial data for construction firms to consider. What's selling, and to whom.

     I suppose it might be useful to have this information available somewhere.  For our purposes, it was only necessary to check the projects we might have been interested in.  At this point, we have moved on to a house and no longer own any Pattaya condos.