Expats angry at huge concessions in latest Thai visa announcements

[BE88]

It is now clear to everyone that this government is desperately trying to revive the economy in Thailand otherwise it will be defeated in the next elections so any action it takes could be the opposite of everything in a short time, therefore I do not give any credit that everything it decides is valid in long term and not even short term.

 

Therefore I am only enslaving and organizing my money transfer to Thailand keeping it non-taxable while for the visa 0 maintaining it does not expose me to the rapid change of the unstable government and gives me a certain peace of mind.

[thaibreaker]

On 7/20/2024 at 1:30 PM, newbee2022 said:

No. That's not right.

With DTV you are to leave after 180 days (or one day before). Entering again another 180 days start. Same procedure for 5 years.

However, with a retirement visa 365 days) you will be taxed.

Also: retirement visa is available inside and outside of Thailand.

DTV is only outside of Thailand available.

What visa you are on has nothing to do whether you will be taxed or not.

 

If you will be taxed, and that is a big IF, depends on how many days you stay in Thailand a year.

You can in theory have a "retirement visa" and only stay 179 days in Thailand. That does not make you a tax resident. So the visa in itself has nothing to do with it.

 

But as soon as you extend your DTV within the same year, and stay 180 days or longer, you'll become a tax resident.

 

The LTR visa is the only visa that officially let you off the tax-hook.

Edited July 21 by thaibreaker

[BumGun]

Expats angry

 

for many that seems to be any day of the week ending in Y ? but still they stay ?

 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

They should be happy enough with the hundred plus thousand dollars I spend here every year.

If you've got the income coming in to match that spend (a min of $80,000 pa or $40,000 pa if you're willing to invest £250,000) then you should look into the LTR Visa which will exempt you from tax on any money you remit to Thailand. 

 

Should have no problems keeping your Thai Bank Account & Driving License if you do decide to be resident for <180 days pa. 

 

[sungod]

3 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

He won't qualify for the DTV.

 

He's retired. 

Nothing stopping him doing the 60 days, extend and border run.

[kwilco]

On 7/20/2024 at 3:16 AM, webfact said:

face ever-changing regulations

 

I think this will change too.... let's face it most "new measures" in Thailand are not fully thought out.

What worries me is they will just cancel the whole thing.Tourists like to use Thailand as a hub for touring neighbouring countries in the region and this can involve several land border crossings - if tat is lost, it would be a great shome.

[kwilco]

10 minutes ago, sungod said:

Nothing stopping him doing the 60 days, extend and border run.

except he knows it won't last...

 

[bdenner]

3 hours ago, retarius said:

Goodbye Thailand. I made the decision a couple of months back to spend fewer than 180 days a year in Thailand each year, starting this year, and not to <snip>

I'm still of the opinion a lot of you guys are getting ya knickers in a twist over nothing.

How on this earth are the idiots who run this country going to tax 100K - 200K - 1M Farang when they can't even bring Boss "Red Bull" or Thaskin Shinawat to justice.

[TheAppletons]

7 hours ago, bradiston said:

Maybe off topic but I think I'll keep my non O with retirement ext. No knowing when they'll rescind this order.

 

  Yeah, that's the thing about this - and perhaps it's already been mentioned but I'm not reading 10 pages of whining posters - but one doesn't have to change.  

 

  If you like what you have, keep it.  Nothing says you have to change anything.  

 

  1900 THB per year for an extension is a bargain.  I'll be keeping that.  

Edited July 21 by TheAppletons

[theblether]

Let's be honest. The people cracking up are the usual sanctimonious suspects. They thought they could buy themselves status by having an elite visa and ignored the repeated warnings it was a glorified and expensive tourist visa. They were also repeatedly warned not to assume the visa category was safe. They took a long term punt on a visa category in Thailand and got caught out. Som nam na. 

 

I have more sympathy for the people relying upon the 800,000 baht "retirement" method, but even they had the option to prove a monthly income and were not forced to commit capital. 

 

The truism runs deep and is set in stone. Don't move capital to Thailand you can't afford to lose. 

 

And we all know that you can't follow Thai immigrations tracks in the snow as they veer from policy to policy depending upon the mood of the latest chief or immigration officer you encounter. 

 

However!! 

 

Before the crows gather to rip the absolute p*ss out of the sanctimonious, the same thing applies to this latest announcement. Anyone thinking, "woohoo, my long stay problems are solved" is likely to wake up one day next year and find themselves scrambling for the border. We've seen it all before. 

 

My advice is to not drop your "retirement" visas and take a small L in the meantime. It could turn into a big win when the gov orders a knee-jerk correction. 

[theblether]

45 minutes ago, bdenner said:

I'm still of the opinion a lot of you guys are getting ya knickers in a twist over nothing.

How on this earth are the idiots who run this country going to tax 100K - 200K - 1M Farang when they can't even bring Boss "Red Bull" or Thaskin Shinawat to justice.

 

Amazing comment. Comparing retired farangs to the guy that almost sparked a civil war and triggered two coups. 

 

 

[Jack1988]

It's very funny how all these foreigners with elite visas got scr...ewed lol

[Jack1988]

On 7/20/2024 at 11:20 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

A Non-Immigrant visa allows you to open bank accounts, obtain a driving licence and other privileges that the 60 day stamps and DTV don't support.

 

Also, you don't qualify for the DTV, because you are a retiree, and that is not a category that it supports.

I have a thai bank account since more than 6 years, I opened it when i was married and i renewed it less than one year ago when i was already divorced, no problem for me

[DonniePeverley]

This visa is going to attract criminals too looking to get away. 

[Jack1988]

I would apply for a retirement visa when and if I will reach 50s because I think it's always better to avoid too many free stamps on the passport but for now I am happy to use the free exemption 60 days stamps or STV/METV visas

[BobfromNYC]

Perhaps the expensive long stay Visa's need to be rethought.

[Mr Meeseeks]

2 hours ago, sungod said:

Nothing stopping him doing the 60 days, extend and border run.

 

Sure, and I wish him luck.

 

Reckon he'll get a couple of border runs in before he's stopped and asked if he is working or refused entry on arrival. 

[Gknrd]

Those elite visa's were always aimed at business people wanting to stay and work. What idiot would pay 900K to live in a poluted dying country? Where you can only live for 6-8 months a year because of the pollution. Either that or live under an air purifier for months on end. Same old story in Thailand, farang gets fleeced in Thailand because he is an idiot then complains...

 

I'm always amazed at the people that get scammed, then whine about it. It is your job to take care of your finances. If you cannot then it is your fault, 99.9% of the time.

 

If you want to retire to a country that is and has been doing everything possible to fleece the western countries and its people then you are going to have to deal with the problems that come up. You are not going to win!

 

At this point the Thai thinking is, we can do anything we want these idiots will always come.

Edited July 21 by Gknrd

[scoutman360]

On 7/20/2024 at 10:20 AM, racket said:

The Elite Visas can be a total waste if you are not planning to stay for a very long time. 

 

Additionally, what this elite visa holder may not mention is that the Elite Visa offers the possibility of extending for up to 6 years initially. By paying an additional 400,000 baht before the initial period expires, he can extend the visa for another 10 years, making it a total of 16 years. 

 

If he stays on the elite visa program for 16 years, he’ll end up paying just 6,770 baht per month, which is quite reasonable compared to other long-term residency options..

 

So, The Elite extension for another 10 yrs is essentially 40,000 thb/yr.  Over 16 years, 6,770 thb/mo = 81,240/yr. My annual retirement Non-O extension costs me 1,900 thb/year. These people must be the ones burning money in the fire place to keep warm. 

[Lorry]

37 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

At this point the Thai thinking is, we can do anything we want these idiots will always come.

It's their experience of 50 years. 

 

1990s: AIDS? Not me.

 

2004: Tsunami, thousands of dead tourists and the government openly stating they can't tell the truth because they might get sued by the farang? Tourists loved Thailand more than ever. 

 

2010: Riots, 100 people shot dead in a temple? Thai temples are so beautiful!

 

2024: Smog? I have yet to meet a single person outside of Thailand who believes me that Thailand has bad air. Some of my friends were here during smog season,  they still don't believe it.

 

"The tourists will always come" (Bernard Trink) 

 

[Gknrd]

10 minutes ago, Lorry said:

It's their experience of 50 years. 

 

1990s: AIDS? Not me.

 

2004: Tsunami, thousands of dead tourists and the government openly stating they can't tell the truth because they might get sued by the farang? Tourists loved Thailand more than ever. 

 

2010: Riots, 100 people shot dead in a temple? Thai temples are so beautiful!

 

2024: Smog? I have yet to meet a single person outside of Thailand who believes me that Thailand has bad air. Some of my friends were here during smog season,  they still don't believe it.

 

"The tourists will always come" (Bernard Trink) 

 

Yes, even I, when going as a tourist could deal with it. Retiring there and getting old is a whole different story. 

[Klonko]

4 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

 

So, The Elite extension for another 10 yrs is essentially 40,000 thb/yr.  Over 16 years, 6,770 thb/mo = 81,240/yr. My annual retirement Non-O extension costs me 1,900 thb/year. These people must be the ones burning money in the fire place to keep warm. 

The 20 year Privilege Card membership for SE Elite visa for THB 1m was a viable long-term solution given the track record of grandfathering older Elite schemes, e.g. the transferable life time memberships. Other visa do not secure a hassle free long-term stay. However, with the Privilege Card price increases, the 20 year value proposition is questionable comparing  with the tax free LTR visa (though with health insurance requirement) and the cheap DTA visa. If I had not the possibility for tax exempt remittances, I would probably apply for a LTR visa assuming I could  reactivate my SE visa if the LTR visa is abandoned or curtailed.

 

If they want to maintain Privilege Cards sales volume, they have to substantially cut prices, get tax exemption like the LTR, remove the tax exemption from LTR, or find enough people to believe in the value of their perks schemes.

[Bday Prang]

On 7/20/2024 at 10:49 AM, jonclark said:

I think you have an erronous view of all  expats here. I have NEVER drank Chang beer. 

and I aint seen a beech in about 10 years

[AreYouGerman]

On 7/20/2024 at 5:37 PM, GoodieAfterDark said:

 

I would never live in Thailand, not even if someone paid me. The weather is horrible hot and I am not a good friend of the AC.

 

And you're still on this forum?

[mania]

11 hours ago, bdenner said:

How on this earth are the idiots who run this country going to tax 100K - 200K - 1M Farang when they can't even bring Boss "Red Bull" or Thaskin Shinawat to justice.

 

I know that sounds good & is a humorous thing we all like to claim but....

 

Does anyone here really think they couldn't grab  Vorayuth "Boss" Yoovidhya anytime they wanted ? IF they actually wanted to.  No Vorayuth's freedom is bought & paid for till statute of limitations renders it all a memory

 

Does anyone actually think Thaksin & also his sister were not allowed to leave? Then allowed to return?

(His sister soon to return.) 

 

Justice?

Thailand's Justice System works just the way they (TPTB)  WANT it to work. Not  Justice as usual foreigner style...

(NOT that Foreign governments have no corruption)

 

But that aside yes Taxing foreigners (aside from those working in Thailand) is a big ask for any government & highly unlikely

 

It is only here on this mainly geriatric forum that folks get all excited over things that don't exist as it is a form of exercise/socializing for them 😉

Edited July 21 by mania

[DonniePeverley]

Watching the news and seeing the protests across Europe at mass tourism.

 

I predict Thai citizens will soon by protesting following the policies of open door immigration by this lunacy leadership. 

 

You've already seen rents shoot up 50% in Phuket. When this starts hurting local Thais around Thailand that is when the lunacy policy will be seen for what it is. 

 

The DTV is going to attract the worlds biggest dross, backpackers with laptops, those hiding from military call ups, and criminals from around the world. 

 

Welcome to the new Thailand. Quality tourism? Nah, MASS CHEAP TOURISM. 

 

[MangoKorat]

On 7/20/2024 at 8:52 PM, Rob Browder said:

They are increasing the share of millions of people who work remotely, who will now be able to spend earned foreign-income into the Thai economy, ongoing. 

I think you may be being a little optimistic in thinking that Thailand is likely to attract many more remote workers.  Thailand is just one destination for such people - there are plenty of others. Besides, up until recently, to the best of my knowledge, Thailand has never cracked down on any foreigners spending money.  Apart from those in business in Thailand, foreigner's money has been largely ignored. Many of us have been bringing relatively large amounts in regularly and never been questioned.

 

The recent changes in the taxation rules seem to be going to change all that and as a result, many expats are considering leaving for at least half the year.  Probably an 'own goal' in terms of actual tax revenue.

 

The doubling of the entry duration from 30 to 60 days and the inclusion of many more countries with that entry criteria is clearly aimed at tourists but for the reasons I stated in my previous post, all its likely to do is make things easier for the border runners.

 

There have been several news reports on here where the fact that tourists are not spending as much despite overall numbers increasing has been brought up.  I wish them well in their efforts but I can't see much changing.

 

 

[bamnutsak]

In the OP two expats have strong opinions. Angry? Meh.

 

 

I'm certainly not angry that others have more options now.

 

AFAIK my extension of stay based on retirement remains a valid option for me.

[kwilco]

12 hours ago, bdenner said:

when they can't even bring Boss "Red Bull" or Thaskin Shinawat to justice.

THat shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work in Thailand - If you are a person "of influence" in Thailand you can to all intents and purposes by above the law - a humble farang may not find that so easy. - without a load of cash to spend.

[kwilco]

29 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I think you may be being a little optimistic in thinking that Thailand is likely to attract many more remote workers.  Thailand is just one destination for such people - there are plenty of others. Besides, up until recently, to the best of my knowledge, Thailand has never cracked down on any foreigners spending money.  Apart from those in business in Thailand, foreigner's money has been largely ignored. Many of us have been bringing relatively large amounts in regularly and never been questioned.

 

The recent changes in the taxation rules seem to be going to change all that and as a result, many expats are considering leaving for at least half the year.  Probably an 'own goal' in terms of actual tax revenue.

 

The doubling of the entry duration from 30 to 60 days and the inclusion of many more countries with that entry criteria is clearly aimed at tourists but for the reasons I stated in my previous post, all its likely to do is make things easier for the border runners.

 

There have been several news reports on here where the fact that tourists are not spending as much despite overall numbers increasing has been brought up.  I wish them well in their efforts but I can't see much changing.

 

 

I paid tax for 20 years - even got rebates in some years.