Expats angry at huge concessions in latest Thai visa announcements

[Kaopad999]

On 7/20/2024 at 9:16 AM, webfact said:

Brit who recently paid 900,000 baht (about 20,000 UK pounds) for the five year Elite visa said he had wasted his money

it's always been a rip off regardless, so no real grounds to complain when you were willing to pay that amount for a 5 year visa in the first place. 

[sungod]

12 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

Sure, and I wish him luck.

 

Reckon he'll get a couple of border runs in before he's stopped and asked if he is working or refused entry on arrival. 

I think you are right,

 

Just shows he has nothing to moan about!

[sungod]

15 hours ago, kwilco said:

except he knows it won't last...

 

Sure, so as I just wrote, he has nothing to moan about.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I think you may be being a little optimistic in thinking that Thailand is likely to attract many more remote workers.  Thailand is just one destination for such people - there are plenty of others. Besides, up until recently, to the best of my knowledge, Thailand has never cracked down on any foreigners spending money.  Apart from those in business in Thailand, foreigner's money has been largely ignored. Many of us have been bringing relatively large amounts in regularly and never been questioned.

 

The recent changes in the taxation rules seem to be going to change all that and as a result, many expats are considering leaving for at least half the year.  Probably an 'own goal' in terms of actual tax revenue.

 

The doubling of the entry duration from 30 to 60 days and the inclusion of many more countries with that entry criteria is clearly aimed at tourists but for the reasons I stated in my previous post, all its likely to do is make things easier for the border runners.

 

There have been several news reports on here where the fact that tourists are not spending as much despite overall numbers increasing has been brought up.  I wish them well in their efforts but I can't see much changing.

 

 

Yeah, thos that get the DTA nowadays (since it came out after June 27) can remit money/spend money earned without a problem (unless of course they were here prior to 27 JUne and depending on how many days) since unless they are spending more than 180 days during THIS calendar year, are not tax residents of Thailand.  However, depending on all the dust settling, unless some new guidance is provided on the DTA, once any of the holders stay over 180 days in one calendar year then they will be Thai tax residents and will not be tax exempt on earnings.   Good luck to all.  enjoy it while you can.

[Presnock]

20 minutes ago, Kaopad999 said:

it's always been a rip off regardless, so no real grounds to complain when you were willing to pay that amount for a 5 year visa in the first place. 

According to some that got/get free golf green fees, and if one play a lot of golf (some courses have lights and open at night too and I once a member of such a course played 3 rounds many days and at least two rounds every day) then it might not be such a bad visa.  If one can afford that visa, then why should anyone else complain?  That person is not making anyone get a particular visa which is the choice of every person based on qualifications and meeting all the requirements of a particular visa.  I have previously been on a retirement O for 20 years, accepted the reporting requirements, yearly extenions of same and finally realized that the LTR fit me much better so switched.  That is the option of each of us and if taxation continues to evolve depending on the government, we also have the option of leaving or accepting whatever comes down be it permanent or temportary.  Good luck to all and hope all get what they deserve uh earn.

[CLW]

On 7/20/2024 at 3:09 PM, Bobajob said:

The official word is that you get 180 days on entry. Then you have a choice. You can either extend for a year at immigration or you can leave the country and come back in and get another 180 days per entry, not per year. I phoned the Thai embassy in London and had a conversation with someone and that is what they told me. The visa guys have also answered my email with the same question as you can see below. The official word is 180 days stamp, extendable by another year or leave the country, come back in, it resets and you can do this every year for the length of your visa, in this case 5 years. Whether that changes in the future, I've got no idea of course, but that is the word at the moment.

So according to this answer, once I have this visa, I can stay in Thailand 179 days, leave the country, come back and get another 180 days? I can do this for a period of five years? And only for an initial fee of 10,000 THB?

[racket]

14 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

 

So, The Elite extension for another 10 yrs is essentially 40,000 thb/yr.  Over 16 years, 6,770 thb/mo = 81,240/yr. My annual retirement Non-O extension costs me 1,900 thb/year. These people must be the ones burning money in the fire place to keep warm. 

 

You can’t retire if you’re younger than 50. While it might be cheaper, it requires depositing a significant amount of money in a Thai bank. In Thailand, retirement visas are generally available only to those aged 50 and above. Additionally, to qualify for a retirement visa, applicants must either have a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB (approximately $2,000 USD) or a deposit of 800,000 THB (approximately $24,000 USD) in a Thai bank. These financial requirements ensure that retirees have sufficient funds to support themselves while living in Thailand.

[racket]

23 hours ago, amexpat said:

Indeed!  Just 81,240 per year is quite reasonable compared to 2,000 per year for retirement option.  

 

You seem to think everyone is 50 years old or older. Sure, By paying 2,000 baht, you expect to secure 800,000 baht or generate a monthly retirement income of 65,000 baht..

[racket]

On 7/21/2024 at 8:06 AM, Chongalulu said:

This is a terrible investment of almost 1 million baht. You have completely forgotten the investment return on that sum. I just have to look at the return on such a sum invested I have achieved on my U.K. SIPP (pension) and ISA (another tax free wrapper). 

 

1 million baht is not a lot of money, and you can't retire if you are under 50.

[CallumWK]

5 minutes ago, racket said:

 

You seem to think everyone is 50 years old or older. Sure, By paying 2,000 baht, you expect to secure 800,000 baht or generate a monthly retirement income of 65,000 baht..

 

You seem to think that if you pay 1 million for that glorified tourist visa, you live for free.

 

And you can retire at any age, just depends on your financials, not your age

Edited July 22 by CallumWK

[Doctor Tom]

The Elite Visa was never worth the money and it was always plain that Thailand's longer term goals would need a much more relaxed set of visa processes within a more advanced digital age. The latest move to attract digital nomads to LOS is sensible and will enhance the country's attractiveness to a wider age group of working people, as well as tourists. All good moves, so I don't see where the anger comes from, except from those who were fooled by the Elite Visa terms.  

[CallumWK]

54 minutes ago, CLW said:

So according to this answer, once I have this visa, I can stay in Thailand 179 days, leave the country, come back and get another 180 days? I can do this for a period of five years? And only for an initial fee of 10,000 THB?

 

Are you just a wind up or that ignorant?

 

The 180 days is per calendar year, not per stay

Edited July 22 by CallumWK

[digger70]

On 7/20/2024 at 9:16 AM, webfact said:

Longstay expats with expensive visas say the new 60 days visa-exempt policy and the 180 days Destination Thailand Visa have made the Elite visa and the annual extensions of stay for retirement and marriage worthless.

Bloody wingers , the one year extension based on retirement is as easy as Possible  No running around no border hopping ,just dot he 90 day online and then one only has to go to Imm Ones per year . The 800 K  isn't lost like the money for the Elite Visa. If one would want to leave Thailand For good one can take the 800 K and GO.

[transam]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

Bloody wingers , the one year extension based on retirement is as easy as Possible  No running around no border hopping ,just dot he 90 day online and then one only has to go to Imm Ones per year . The 800 K  isn't lost like the money for the Elite Visa. If one would want to leave Thailand For good one can take the 800 K and GO.

I think we are all well aware of all that........😉

[anrcaccount]

29 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Are you just a wind up or that ignorant?

 

The 180 days is per calendar year, not per stay

You're incorrect.

 

180 days per stay.

 

Unlimited entries in a 5 year validity period. After 180 days consecutively may extend at Immigration for an additional 180 days.

 

Or just leave and re enter prior to the end of any stay to avoid needing extensions. 

 

 

 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, CLW said:

So according to this answer, once I have this visa, I can stay in Thailand 179 days, leave the country, come back and get another 180 days? I can do this for a period of five years? And only for an initial fee of 10,000 THB?

Suggest then that you read the Thai govt revenue dept about being a tax resident in Thailand - having to pay tax on any assessable remittances or monies earned in Thailand.

[CLW]

1 hour ago, CallumWK said:

 

Are you just a wind up or that ignorant?

 

The 180 days is per calendar year, not per stay

Not, it does not. I just checked the regulations on the Thai Embassy of my home country. It clearly says the 180 days is per entry and starting from zero again once you leave and re-enter Thailand. No limit of days per calendar year. Visa is valid five years and can be extended ONCE within the country for a total stay of 360 days without leaving.

[tomacht8]

Expats angry 

You can only be angry with yourself that you may have made the wrong investment decision. Anyone who bought the Elite Visa in the past got it that way. Now new visa types have been added. More choice isn't a bad thing in itself. Everyone can choose what suits them best. It is well known that Thailand is constantly changing its visa types, length of stay, document requirements, application procedures and bureaucracy at short notice. As a rule, nothing here is long-term and can be planned. I will probably also take advantage of the new opportunity to enter the country visa-free for 60 days several times a year, as from a tax perspective I will limit my stay in Thailand to 179 days a year. Philippines, Vietnam and Europe in summer are also nice countries where I can spend my money.

Edited July 22 by tomacht8

[CLW]

36 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Suggest then that you read the Thai govt revenue dept about being a tax resident in Thailand - having to pay tax on any assessable remittances or monies earned in Thailand.

What does tax have to do with the topic of Thailand visas?

[kingstonkid]

On 7/20/2024 at 5:26 PM, Presnock said:

well just the other day they announced 19 million tourists so far this year....however, the money folks say that the amount of money recvd from these tourists is below what was expected.

The question is not how many but how many from where.

 

Let's face it Chinese tourist are mostly in groups

  You are not going to find a lot of them in Pattaya at the bars.

 

They need the Aussies Brit American that want to party.

 

BUt. The big issue is that they need to make tourism the second biggest money maker

[CLW]

Below is screenshot from the official announcement Thai MOFA 

For eligibility criteria 2.) Muay Thai or sports training. 

Does it mean I can enroll for Thai boxing class or weightlifting courses at my local gym and this is enough to get a five year visa? Sounds to good to be true....

 

[CallumWK]

27 minutes ago, CLW said:

Not, it does not. I just checked the regulations on the Thai Embassy of my home country. It clearly says the 180 days is per entry and starting from zero again once you leave and re-enter Thailand. No limit of days per calendar year. Visa is valid five years and can be extended ONCE within the country for a total stay of 360 days without leaving.

 

Sorry should have read the whole thread. I confused the 180 days with those to be considered resident for tax purposes or not.

[tomacht8]

17 minutes ago, CLW said:

What does tax have to do with the topic of Thailand visas?

I see taxes and visa options as a total package to stay longer in a country. Anyone who stays in Thailand for more than 180 days a year becomes a tax resident. For example, anyone who has transferred 3-4 million baht per year to Thailand runs the risk of paying 30% in taxes. At 4 million, that's around 1.3 million. The new regulations make it possible to commute often between Thailand and other countries in order to achieve a maximum stay of 179 days cost-effectively if you want to avoid tax resident status.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/20/2024 at 3:24 PM, Neeranam said:

I remember Taksin raised the price of PR from 20k to 200k RE 2003. he also raised visa extensions from 500 to 1900 baht. Also increased marriage visa bank deposits by 100%.

 

 

If that is true and I believe it is, it just backs up onemorefarang's many negative posts about him posts about him.

[Rob Browder]

7 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

all its likely to do is make things easier for the border runners.

... who are, for the most part, remote workers.  I agree the tax-policy works at cross-purposes - but they may hope to use easier-stays to increase tax-revenue. 

 

7 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

tourists are not spending as much despite overall numbers increasing has been brought up

This is because the recent increase has been Indian and Chinese tourists - many on "zero baht" tours - vs Western visitors who spent more money per-each, historically. 

It's a shame they harassed Westerners who "spent too much time (= money)" in Thailand - driving many to other destinations.   This financially hurt many Thais, but Immigration didn't care about them.

 

When I was briefly in Cambodia, a few years ago, I met dozens of "forced out of Thailand by immigration" Westerners who were spending their money there, in direct response to Thai immigration's "crackdowns."  They were openly bitter and angry about Thailand, and unlikely to ever return.  

 

Note that Cambodia never had the tax-loophole Thailand had, before - and it didn't seem to affect them - never even came up in conversation. 

[anrcaccount]

12 minutes ago, CLW said:

Below is screenshot from the official announcement Thai MOFA 

For eligibility criteria 2.) Muay Thai or sports training. 

Does it mean I can enroll for Thai boxing class or weightlifting courses at my local gym and this is enough to get a five year visa? Sounds to good to be true....

 

 

Based on the wording, yes., A number of pending applications have been made on the basis of a single doctors appointment. Haven't read any confirmed yet, but I see no reason why they won't grant them. 

 

Personally, I think anyone having trouble with the employment "workcation" requirements would be better served by just applying under the "soft power" reasoning.

 

IMO really, this is a long term tourist visa. Should be easy to get, and very convenient for people.

 

Yes compared to the criteria for many visas it does seem "too good to be true", but why complain when, for a change, the requirements are being made easier.

[Rob Browder]

2 hours ago, racket said:

These financial requirements ensure that retirees have sufficient funds to support themselves while living in Thailand.

The lack of "welfare" ensures we have sufficient-funds to support ourselves in Thailand - regardless of age.  The fact that 6 X 12-hour days here = 1-8-hour day working back home, means we have no incentive to work illegally.  

It's a self-correcting system, which is why the Cambodia and Laos do not have "money in the bank" requirements.  The PI doesn't either, if one uses the 3-years of tourist extensions + bounce out-back, and repeat method.

[Presnock]

57 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

The question is not how many but how many from where.

 

Let's face it Chinese tourist are mostly in groups

  You are not going to find a lot of them in Pattaya at the bars.

 

They need the Aussies Brit American that want to party.

 

BUt. The big issue is that they need to make tourism the second biggest money maker

Yeah, based on what my friends back in the USA are discussing about spending, is much closer to home now a days especially with this election which no one thinks will improve the economic outlook no matter who wins.  Many folks are just planning on moving to a cheaper area as the housing in too many places is just too expensive - I saw a youtube bit on that very subject too.  In many of the larger cities, houses are costing a minimum of 1 million USD.  Not a lot of middle income folks could ever afford that and they mention that the middle class is just about gone today.  I think until the world economy gets back on track (if ever) not too many westerners will waste their time or money on Thailand.  My opinion only of course.

[Mr Meeseeks]

7 hours ago, Presnock said:

According to some that got/get free golf green fees, and if one play a lot of golf (some courses have lights and open at night too and I once a member of such a course played 3 rounds many days and at least two rounds every day) then it might not be such a bad visa.  If one can afford that visa, then why should anyone else complain?  That person is not making anyone get a particular visa which is the choice of every person based on qualifications and meeting all the requirements of a particular visa.  I have previously been on a retirement O for 20 years, accepted the reporting requirements, yearly extenions of same and finally realized that the LTR fit me much better so switched.  That is the option of each of us and if taxation continues to evolve depending on the government, we also have the option of leaving or accepting whatever comes down be it permanent or temportary.  Good luck to all and hope all get what they deserve uh earn.

 

The point is, is that in the end, it was nothing but a swindle by the Thais.

 

It started off with good intentions and worthwhile privileges, but then quickly turned into another typical Thai boondoggle. 

[racket]

4 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

You seem to think that if you pay 1 million for that glorified tourist visa, you live for free.

 

And you can retire at any age, just depends on your financials, not your age

 

A retirement visa in Thailand is available for those aged 50 or older. If you are under 50, you can still retire but will need to explore other visa options, such as the Elite Visa or another appropriate alternative.