Expats angry at huge concessions in latest Thai visa announcements

[bogozy]

I made a calculation, compare the cost of one year retirement visa, arranged by an agent, with the new 60 days stamp, and visit immigration office, and border runs. The retirement visa is cheaper, easier, and no hassle visits immigration, border bounces a lot of times.

[OldmanJ]

With all these changes with visa's going 0n why doesn't someone think about making it easier for someone who is married to a Thai maybe with children and living in Thailand.Or is it because non Thai's are not welcome long term.

[MangoKorat]

9 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

.. who are, for the most part, remote workers.  I agree the tax-policy works at cross-purposes - but they may hope to use easier-stays to increase tax-revenue. 

None of the border runners that I either know of have met are remote workers. 

Edited July 22 by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

16 hours ago, kwilco said:

I paid tax for 20 years - even got rebates in some years.

I don't doubt you did but were you working?  I'm talking about the people who bring millions of baht in to buy houses and cars etc.

 

I should have included people who are/were working in Thailand - not only those in business but I doubt any of those could have avoided paying tax.

Edited July 22 by MangoKorat

[mania]

2 hours ago, OldmanJ said:

With all these changes with visa's going 0n why doesn't someone think about making it easier for someone who is married to a Thai maybe with children and living in Thailand.Or is it because non Thai's are not welcome long term.

 

Well Non Thai ladies are welcome 😉

 

Did you know that when a Thai Man marries a foreign lady she gets to stay without visa & even gets citizenship?

 

It is foreign men who marry Thai Ladies that are made to jump thru hoops

Edited July 22 by mania

[kwilco]

8 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I don't doubt you did but were you working?  I'm talking about the people who bring millions of baht in to buy houses and cars etc.

 

I should have included people who are/were working in Thailand - not only those in business but I doubt any of those could have avoided paying tax.

So your principle is just "avoiding" tax?

[MangoKorat]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

So your principle is just "avoiding" tax?

Not at all, I am simply saying that prior to the recent announcments regarding tax residency, many foreigners living in Thailand have brought substantial amounts of money in without question.

Edited July 22 by MangoKorat

[pacovl46]

On 7/21/2024 at 6:04 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

20 years ago they started the visa clampdowns. 

 

Around 2002 and earlier you didn't need to leave the country to get any type of visa you needed. 

The border runs were still possible all the way up to the beginning of around 2014. 

[NoshowJones]

On 7/22/2024 at 5:24 AM, mania said:

 

I know that sounds good & is a humorous thing we all like to claim but....

 

Does anyone here really think they couldn't grab  Vorayuth "Boss" Yoovidhya anytime they wanted ? IF they actually wanted to.  No Vorayuth's freedom is bought & paid for till statute of limitations renders it all a memory

 

Does anyone actually think Thaksin & also his sister were not allowed to leave? Then allowed to return?

(His sister soon to return.) 

 

Justice?

Thailand's Justice System works just the way they (TPTB)  WANT it to work. Not  Justice as usual foreigner style...

(NOT that Foreign governments have no corruption)

 

But that aside yes Taxing foreigners (aside from those working in Thailand) is a big ask for any government & highly unlikely

 

It is only here on this mainly geriatric forum that folks get all excited over things that don't exist as it is a form of exercise/socializing for them 😉

What does TPTB stand for?? You are not texting on your phone you are on a live forum.

[mania]

3 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

What does TPTB stand for?? You are not texting on your phone you are on a live forum.

The Powers That Be...... Yeah most are on a live forum many are brain dead tho 😅

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/tptb

[kingstonkid]

8 hours ago, mania said:

 

Well Non Thai ladies are welcome 😉

 

Did you know that when a Thai Man marries a foreign lady she gets to stay without visa & even gets citizenship?

 

It is foreign men who marry Thai Ladies that are made to jump thru hoops

 

I think that is because of the abuse to the marriage visa in the past too many girls were too willing to get married for a few baht.  If you take a look at most western countries, they also make you go through hoops because there are too many women willing to get married to a guy that comes into the country, pays them some money, and leaves.

[mania]

1 minute ago, kingstonkid said:

 

I think that is because of the abuse to the marriage visa in the past too many girls were too willing to get married for a few baht.  If you take a look at most western countries, they also make you go through hoops because there are too many women willing to get married to a guy that comes into the country, pays them some money, and leaves.

Yes I think so too. 

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, racket said:

 

A retirement visa in Thailand is available for those aged 50 or older. If you are under 50, you can still retire but will need to explore other visa options, such as the Elite Visa or another appropriate alternative.

Elite Visa??    

[StayinThailand2much]

11 hours ago, OldmanJ said:

With all these changes with visa's going 0n why doesn't someone think about making it easier for someone who is married to a Thai maybe with children and living in Thailand.Or is it because non Thai's are not welcome long term.

 

They couldn't care less about spouses of Thai citizens. IMHO, the focus has always been on the short-term tourists, i.e. those staying for up to 60 days.

[Neeranam]

12 hours ago, OldmanJ said:

With all these changes with visa's going 0n why doesn't someone think about making it easier for someone who is married to a Thai maybe with children and living in Thailand.Or is it because non Thai's are not welcome long term.

It is easier for someone married to a Thai or with children. 

Half the amount required to show in the bank, for example. 

If going for Permanent Residency, the price is 100k baht cheaper. 

If going for Citizenship, you don't need PR first if married, etc. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

56 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

They couldn't care less about spouses of Thai citizens. IMHO, the focus has always been on the short-term tourists, i.e. those staying for up to 60 days.

Not true, the nationality act was changed a few years back to make it much easier for those married to Thai citizens to become citizens or permanent residents themselves. 

[Maitdjai]

16 hours ago, racket said:

 

A retirement visa in Thailand is available for those aged 50 or older. If you are under 50, you can still retire but will need to explore other visa options, such as the Elite Visa or another appropriate alternative.

 

21 hours ago, racket said:

 

You can’t retire if you’re younger than 50. While it might be cheaper, it requires depositing a significant amount of money in a Thai bank. In Thailand, retirement visas are generally available only to those aged 50 and above. Additionally, to qualify for a retirement visa, applicants must either have a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB (approximately $2,000 USD) or a deposit of 800,000 THB (approximately $24,000 USD) in a Thai bank. These financial requirements ensure that retirees have sufficient funds to support themselves while living in Thailand.

 

21 hours ago, racket said:

 

You seem to think everyone is 50 years old or older. Sure, By paying 2,000 baht, you expect to secure 800,000 baht or generate a monthly retirement income of 65,000 baht..

 

21 hours ago, racket said:

 

1 million baht is not a lot of money, and you can't retire if you are under 50.

 

I can't follow, why you are constantly insisting on the "Elite" Visa?

 

Are you working for the company issuing it? That would explain it in a way.

Or, you want to show off, that you're a "retired" millionaire, younger than 50 years, and a "Elite" visa holder?

So, then you've chosen one option. There are still others, also not cheap, for young wealthy "retirees".  Having much more to offer, when it comes to business, investment, and more.

 

"1 million Baht is not a lot of money" (maybe not for you).

 

But the 800K deposit (no fee!) in the own account, or 65000/month into a TiT bank is suddenly a "significant" amount of money?

 

So, the "young" wealthy clients (under 50 years) you're addressing, can always find a way to stay in TiT long-term.

It's just a matter of choice, and the will to pay the price.

Including the possible Tax residency!

Another disadvantage of the "Elite" visa.

But, in my view, why should especially "Elite" Aliens not pay taxes.

Winging is strictly allowed!

 

[racket]

27 minutes ago, Maitdjai said:

 

 

 

 

I can't follow, why you are constantly insisting on the "Elite" Visa?

 

Are you working for the company issuing it? That would explain it in a way.

Or, you want to show off, that you're a "retired" millionaire, younger than 50 years, and a "Elite" visa holder?

So, then you've chosen one option. There are still others, also not cheap, for young wealthy "retirees".  Having much more to offer, when it comes to business, investment, and more.

 

"1 million Baht is not a lot of money" (maybe not for you).

 

But the 800K deposit (no fee!) in the own account, or 65000/month into a TiT bank is suddenly a "significant" amount of money?

 

So, the "young" wealthy clients (under 50 years) you're addressing, can always find a way to stay in TiT long-term.

It's just a matter of choice, and the will to pay the price.

Including the possible Tax residency!

Another disadvantage of the "Elite" visa.

But, in my view, why should especially "Elite" Aliens not pay taxes.

Winging is strictly allowed!

 

 

No, I don’t work for Elite Visa. If you read my first post, you’ll see that I strongly criticized it for anyone considering that option if they don’t plan to stay in Thailand for at least five years, as it’s a waste of money. The issue with your 800k statement is that you’re assuming everyone is 50 years old. You can’t get a retirement visa if you’re under 50. It’s called ‘Elite’ for a reason: you’re paying a premium to avoid other measures that make it harder to stay long-term in Thailand.

 

The Elite Visa program is designed for individuals who want to avoid the hassle of annual visa renewals and other bureaucratic requirements. 

 

I think the basic elite program might either become cheaper or be reorganized due to the effects of DTL.

[Maitdjai]

2 hours ago, racket said:

 

No, I don’t work for Elite Visa. If you read my first post, you’ll see that I strongly criticized it for anyone considering that option if they don’t plan to stay in Thailand for at least five years, as it’s a waste of money. The issue with your 800k statement is that you’re assuming everyone is 50 years old. You can’t get a retirement visa if you’re under 50. It’s called ‘Elite’ for a reason: you’re paying a premium to avoid other measures that make it harder to stay long-term in Thailand.

 

The Elite Visa program is designed for individuals who want to avoid the hassle of annual visa renewals and other bureaucratic requirements. 

 

I think the basic elite program might either become cheaper or be reorganized due to the effects of DTL.

 

The 50-year threshold for retirement visas is your point.

 

But even under 50 years, there are choices, as I mentioned.

 

The only thing you spare is the "annual" renewal, and the re-entry permits. Tm30, and Tm47 are still mandatory. Only the handling is different. You still have to provide the information to somebody from some "Elite Visa" agency.

In all other cases of EoS, you can do it online, or by an agency, either.

The "big" audit comes also, only later with the same scrutiny, but ridiculous fees.

Anyways.

 

Sure it should be evaluated! Or better scrapped at all, like many other visa types they offer.

Sometimes, it seems to me, that the "creatives" of the visa "hub" don't even know, about the different types they already have.

When they "proudly" announce a "half-cooked" new one, or a half-cloned one with a new name.

 

Instead of streamlining, and optimizing the present ones, always additional (temporary?) ones are created.

Like with electric wiring. instead of fixing the broken wire, just pull a new one right beside it, without knowing, or thinking about the purpose of the old one.

Result: Confusion

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23 by Maitdjai

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, racket said:

The Elite Visa program is designed for individuals who want to avoid the hassle of annual visa renewals and other bureaucratic requirements. 

It was designed for people who come here often,  many times a year. 

That's why all these funny airport perks.

It wasn't designed for people to  live here. 

And that's why it's just a kind of tourist visa.

 

20 or 30 years ago,  when it was designed,  there were not so many Westerners (except retirees) keen on saving a pound or two by living i  a third-world country.  Especially, as you couldn't work remotely and get a Western income.

And Russians or Chinese, now the best buyers, were unheard of.

 

 

Edited July 23 by Lorry

[Chongalulu]

On 7/22/2024 at 12:40 PM, racket said:

 

1 million baht is not a lot of money, and you can't retire if you are under 50.

So you don’t understand investment principles. Firstly,bringing in 65k per month (minimum) is far cheaper than losing the investment return on 800k baht,and so even is paying an agent 20k (if you have to) and investing that lump sum wisely. I say that as one whose investments are very considerably in excess of this - but maybe they got that way because I did understand.

[GoodieAfterDark]

On 7/21/2024 at 3:15 PM, AreYouGerman said:

 

And you're still on this forum?

 

I show up when I need a good laugh. It is free entertainment.

[Sigmund]

Elite visa - useless.

LTR visa , same.

 

Thailand need to understand that one of the main spender here are the house owners retirees who come over just for 3 to 5 months in winter. Nothing has been done to make the O Non Imm visa more simple and friendly. For instance give at least 4 months of stay instead of the current 90 days. A 50 yr old home owner will always spend big bucks, regardless of the duration of stay.

[Mike Teavee]

11 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

Elite visa - useless.

LTR visa , same.

 

Thailand need to understand that one of the main spender here are the house owners retirees who come over just for 3 to 5 months in winter. Nothing has been done to make the O Non Imm visa more simple and friendly. For instance give at least 4 months of stay instead of the current 90 days. A 50 yr old home owner will always spend big bucks, regardless of the duration of stay.

Not sure why you think LTR Visa is useless given it costs 50K for 10 years and you get an exemption from paying tax on any money you bring into Thailand so could pay for itself in year 1. 

 

But I do believe that anybody who's been on a Non-IMM O for a reasonable period of time (Let's say 5 years) should be given a 5 year extension instead of messing around every year (Did mine today, thank <deleted> that's done with for another year)

 

 

 

[Patong2021]

On 7/20/2024 at 8:22 AM, alex8912 said:

My Thai friends who come to visit USA get 10 year multiple entry visa and it's easy to extend for 10 more years!!  It's NOT an expensive visa either. My rich Thai friends can buy land and houses in USA easily. 

 

This issue has been explained multiple times ever since this forum was called Thai Visa. Yes, it is true that your rich Thai friends are allowed to buy land and houses in the USA. There are literally city blocks available in Detroit, Texas City, Cleveland, Flint,  etc. where they would be greeted with joy and delight. The locations come with their own population of "special" people who can provide hours of entertainment as they drop in unexpectedly and share their love of crack, yaba, syringes, Pabst Blue Ribbon, Ripple and guns.  However, even wealthy Thais find that quality locations in places like Palm Springs, Miami, New York City etc. can cost in excess of 50 million baht. That is quite a contrast from the sub 5 million baht affordability of Thailand. Not many Thais can afford to purchase in the USA and those who do are as you say, are wealthy.  The western foreigners who purchase in Thailand are not particularly wealthy, and most if not all have less than US $1 million in liquidity. Thailand is the last place a wealthy law abiding US citizen would choose and the reasons have been  explained multiple times over the years.

 

The Thai visa and landownership restrictions are needed to ensure that Thais are not priced out of the market and do not see their country purchased by foreigners.  Ask Canadians how a free for all on visas and foreign ownership has worked out.  3 million temporary citizens  have crowded out Canadians from affordable housing and from their medical care system. Ask the UK and the EU how they like being over run by foreigners who have transformed some communities into foreign enclaves and forced other ethnic/religious groups out.  

[JimTripper]

On 7/20/2024 at 12:12 PM, Neeranam said:

Good post. 

 

Retired people are moaners and Thai bashers.

 

What's the big deal of going to immigration once a year, you have all the time in the world. 

What's the big deal of going to a neighboring country to do a visa run?

What's the big deal in paying 15,000 baht year to become an illegal immigrant?

What's the big deal of keeping 800k in  a bank for a few months, If a Thai goes to USA, they must INVEST

17 million baht for a retirement visa. 

You need to interact with people you don't want to be around to do those things.

[CallumWK]

11 hours ago, racket said:

The Elite Visa program is designed for individuals who want to avoid the hassle of annual visa renewals and other bureaucratic requirements. 

 Don't Elite via holders need to extend every year?

[CallumWK]

On 7/22/2024 at 12:31 PM, racket said:

While it might be cheaper, it requires depositing a significant amount of money in a Thai bank. In Thailand, retirement visas are generally available only to those aged 50 and above. Additionally, to qualify for a retirement visa, applicants must either have a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB (approximately $2,000 USD) or a deposit of 800,000 THB (approximately $24,000 USD) in a Thai bank.

 

But after 5 years that 800.000 baht is still 800K, more actually if he put it in a term deposit, and which the foreigner can withdraw.

Your 1 million you spend on your elite visa is gone after the first day already

[Neeranam]

On 7/20/2024 at 7:22 PM, alex8912 said:

My Thai friends who come to visit USA get 10 year multiple entry visa and it's easy to extend for 10 more years!!  It's NOT an expensive visa either. My rich Thai friends can buy land and houses in USA easily. 

As a Thai, I'd have to invest 17 million Baht for a long term retiree visa. 

For a Yank retiring here they need to just show 800,000 baht. 

Its MUCH easier for Yanks to come here. 

[balo]

Enjoy it while it last.  I am pretty sure we will discuss something else in 4 years from now.