Tariffs and how Trump is a socialist.

[bubblegum]

Tariffs, another word for import/export tax. Usually used to protect local industries that might suffer from (unfair) competition by foreign compagnies.

Tariffs in Trump world however are seen as income from said foreign competition. This is a false and rather stupid claim.

 

Lets explain:

I have a manufacture business and order some parts from China. The parts cost me $ 100,-- per piece. I then use this for my final products and that costs me $ 10,-- per piece. I have to pay distributor's $ 10,-- per piece and my margin is $ 30,-- per piece.

You, the costumer are now paying $ 150,--. Simple right!

Here come the tariffs:

The guy from China is still charging me $ 100,-- per piece but now I have to pay  $ 50,--   import tax. So now you, the consumer will have to pay $ 200,-- for the same product because my firm is not going to  take the loss of import tax.

 

Lucky for you, I still have a year worth of products in my warehouse so you won't yet feel the pain. However after 6 months my distributor starts to charge me $ 15,-- per piece because he's been hit by tariffs as well and just like me, he is not going to suffer. He will let me pay the price. So I up my price by not $ 5,-- but  $ 15,-- . Why? Not all to much pieces left on the market so I figure I can up my price. After all it's a free market and I'm a capitalist. 

 

My warehouse is now empty, all prices have gone up because they all have been hit by tariffs. I calculate and now my product will cost you $ 275-- per piece.

 

Voila, inflation.

 

So why is Trump a socialist (as in the way European countries are)?

 

Remember what he said about childcare and how that was just a little bit of money compared to all the "big" stuff? Remember how he said that tariffs are going to pay for it?

 

What he was saying (without understanding it himself)  was that tax (tariffs) were going to pay for it.

 

That is exactly what European countries do ! You pay tax and get healthcare, child support and so on.

Trump is a socialist.

 

[candide]

5 hours ago, bubblegum said:

Tariffs, another word for import/export tax. Usually used to protect local industries that might suffer from (unfair) competition by foreign compagnies.

Tariffs in Trump world however are seen as income from said foreign competition. This is a false and rather stupid claim.

 

Lets explain:

I have a manufacture business and order some parts from China. The parts cost me $ 100,-- per piece. I then use this for my final products and that costs me $ 10,-- per piece. I have to pay distributor's $ 10,-- per piece and my margin is $ 30,-- per piece.

You, the costumer are now paying $ 150,--. Simple right!

Here come the tariffs:

The guy from China is still charging me $ 100,-- per piece but now I have to pay  $ 50,--   import tax. So now you, the consumer will have to pay $ 200,-- for the same product because my firm is not going to  take the loss of import tax.

 

Lucky for you, I still have a year worth of products in my warehouse so you won't yet feel the pain. However after 6 months my distributor starts to charge me $ 15,-- per piece because he's been hit by tariffs as well and just like me, he is not going to suffer. He will let me pay the price. So I up my price by not $ 5,-- but  $ 15,-- . Why? Not all to much pieces left on the market so I figure I can up my price. After all it's a free market and I'm a capitalist. 

 

My warehouse is now empty, all prices have gone up because they all have been hit by tariffs. I calculate and now my product will cost you $ 275-- per piece.

 

Voila, inflation.

 

So why is Trump a socialist (as in the way European countries are)?

 

Remember what he said about childcare and how that was just a little bit of money compared to all the "big" stuff? Remember how he said that tariffs are going to pay for it?

 

What he was saying (without understanding it himself)  was that tax (tariffs) were going to pay for it.

 

That is exactly what European countries do ! You pay tax and get healthcare, child support and so on.

Trump is a socialist.

 

Trump is for tariffs because it's the only policy he's able to understand. 

[Cameroni]

6 hours ago, bubblegum said:

What he was saying (without understanding it himself)  was that tax (tariffs) were going to pay for it.

 

Of course he <deleted> understood it. Hardly rocket science, is it?

[thesetat2013]

6 hours ago, candide said:

Trump is for tariffs because it's the only policy he's able to understand. 

What a biased thing to say. Why you do not add Biden/Harris as well as Canada and the EU and even Australia. Why turn this OP into your own political bias against Trump? 

[Srikcir]

If one follows MAGA logic, if one is a socialist one is also simultaneously a fascist and communist. Just a jumble of political "word salad" to deflect ignorance of the MAGA cult.

[spidermike007]

As far as I'm concerned one of the most dangerous, reckless, and poorly thought out policies that Trump has proposed, are even higher tariffs on many classes of imported products.

Who ends up paying for this? American companies who are manufacturing in China, and the consumer, that's who. 

In the end huge taxes may encourage companies to pull out of China, which is a good thing, but how long will that process take, and what will the economic consequences be in the interim? 

 

He is not a socialist. He is a failed capitalist. It is fairly easy to get wealthy if you are willing to steal most of your fortune from unsuspecting small contractors. Yet he still went bankrupt. That requires a special kind of skill. Or another form of grifting.

 

His tax hike proposals would end up being a disaster. If they were highly targeted tariffs, only imposed upon goods other states were subsidizing, making it impossible to compete, that makes sense and would be good policy. But, blanket tariffs end up being punitive for the American consumer and American companies forced to operate overseas due to the silly costs of manufacturing in the US. They are a tax.

 

Trump lies when he says other nations will pay for them. He lies when he says companies will pay for them. Consumers will pay, so it becomes a tax. Be bold, big Don and for once be honest. It is a tax hike. And it could slow down the economy and result in a massive loss of jobs, and major inflation. Very dumb policy. 

[AndreasHG]

7 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Of course he <deleted> understood it. Hardly rocket science, is it?

There is a chance he understands it. But zero chances his loyal base do. They leave in a world where magic things happen. Magic like the Chinese paying for the import duties. Or magic tree money not feeding into inflation.

Magic tree money like the one printed using the tool below:

 

Edited yesterday at 01:30 AM by AndreasHG

[bubblegum]

8 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Of course he <deleted> understood it. Hardly rocket science, is it?

Then why does he lies about it?

[bubblegum]

3 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

What a biased thing to say. Why you do not add Biden/Harris as well as Canada and the EU and even Australia. Why turn this OP into your own political bias against Trump? 

Reading is difficult, try it again.

[Presnock]

8 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

Then why does he lies about it?

 

8 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

Then why does he lies about it?

He has been lying about everything in his entire life.   He never accepts any blame for any shortcoming and yet makes false claims on positive activity.   And again, after giving big tax breaks to the rich when he was Prez, while they have reaped record profits, he is again promising big tax breaks for the rich.  But, Biden has been no better for the average American that is for sure and KH will be even more under the control of the powerful puppetteers IMHO anyway.  But, I am too old to even worry about it anymore.  After 50+ years of voting, I learned it has been a wasted effort on my part.  life seems to have gone to $%$^&& since I was old enough to vote and thought that I did so by studying the candidates - my mistake as I should have been looking at the puppetteers!  Hope everyone else  has a better life over the next 4 year term.

[Cameroni]

1 hour ago, bubblegum said:

Then why does he lies about it?

 

First of all you explained the micro capitalist procedure quite well congratulations. I want to make clear that I do not support tariffs in principle because I believe in a free market economy.

 

However, what lie are you referring to specifically?

Edited yesterday at 03:33 AM by Cameroni

[Berkshire]

11 hours ago, candide said:

Trump is for tariffs because it's the only policy he's able to understand. 

It may be the only policy he understands....or does he?  Every time Trump talks about tariffs, he falsely claims that foreign companies are paying for it.  But it's American companies and consumers who will pay for it.  So he can't even get that right. 

[bubblegum]

38 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

First of all you explained the micro capitalist procedure quite well congratulations. I want to make clear that I do not support tariffs in principle because I believe in a free market economy.

 

However, what lie are you referring to specifically?

That other countries will pay the tariffs.

[mdr224]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

As far as I'm concerned one of the most dangerous, reckless, and poorly thought out policies that Trump has proposed, are even higher tariffs on many classes of imported products.

Who ends up paying for this? American companies who are manufacturing in China, and the consumer, that's who. 

In the end huge taxes may encourage companies to pull out of China, which is a good thing, but how long will that process take, and what will the economic consequences be in the interim? 

 

He is not a socialist. He is a failed capitalist. It is fairly easy to get wealthy if you are willing to steal most of your fortune from unsuspecting small contractors. Yet he still went bankrupt. That requires a special kind of skill. Or another form of grifting.

 

His tax hike proposals would end up being a disaster. If they were highly targeted tariffs, only imposed upon goods other states were subsidizing, making it impossible to compete, that makes sense and would be good policy. But, blanket tariffs end up being punitive for the American consumer and American companies forced to operate overseas due to the silly costs of manufacturing in the US. They are a tax.

 

Trump lies when he says other nations will pay for them. He lies when he says companies will pay for them. Consumers will pay, so it becomes a tax. Be bold, big Don and for once be honest. It is a tax hike. And it could slow down the economy and result in a massive loss of jobs, and major inflation. Very dumb policy. 

Another copy paste. Trump didnt need to use tariffs, just threatening to use them would set other countries straight. Democrats dont even try, they just let China win.

[animalmagic]

5 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

What a biased thing to say. Why you do not add Biden/Harris as well as Canada and the EU and even Australia. Why turn this OP into your own political bias against Trump? 

The OP is titled 'Tariffs and how Trump is a socialist'!  It started off with a bias against Trump so you can't really accuse candide of turning it into his own political bias.

[Cameroni]

14 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

That other countries will pay the tariffs.

 

Okay, thanks. Well, it's a varied picture, isn't it? In the case of cars, if a Chinese car manufacturer wants to export their EV vehciles into the US, they would do so by using their US incoporated dealers in America. It would then be these dealers, as the initial purchasers and importers who pay the tariffs. To the extent they are subsidiaries of the Chinese manufacturers, indeed the Chinese company would be paying the tariff. Though you can argue they may pass it on, history shows instead the Chinese have lowered the price, and tariffs have had little effect.

 

With other consumer goods it's different of course, when Walmart imports Chinese consumer good that are subject to tariffs of course Walmart will pay the tariff and pass the cost on, that's true.

 

However, Biden of course kept Trump's tariffs, so both Biden and Trump thought these were sound policies. Why? Because they do bring in great revenue into state coffers, and they do make products unattractive the government does not want to be attractive, and they do penalise  manufacturers the government does not like. Even if the Chinese lower prices to keep their cars competitive, this hurts them.

 

What do experts think?

 

"Experts say tariffs on these products will likely have limited effects on consumer goods prices and economic growth. 

 

“These tariffs are very much on the margins, and the impacts on the economy will be a rounding error,” Bernard Yaros, lead US economist at Oxford Economics, told Al Jazeera."

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/5/16/who-benefits-from-us-tariffs-on-chinese-imports-experts-weigh-in

 

I don't agree with this particular Trump policy, because it is clearly protectionist, and I would be in favour in forcing US companies to adapt or die. But I can see the logic, if you're a nationalist and protectionist, then it makes sense.

 

Both Biden and Trump thought so. And so does Harris.

Edited yesterday at 04:25 AM by Cameroni

[gamb00ler]

12 hours ago, candide said:

Trump is for tariffs because it's the only policy he's able to understand. 

I would say it's unlikely he has a good understanding of tariffs.  He likes tariffs because he thinks that by making them country specific he is "targeting" those countries rather than just imposing extra costs on US residents.

[bubblegum]

34 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Okay, thanks. Well, it's a varied picture, isn't it? In the case of cars, if a Chinese car manufacturer wants to export their EV vehciles into the US, they would do so by using their US incoporated dealers in America. It would then be these dealers, as the initial purchasers and importers who pay the tariffs. To the extent they are subsidiaries of the Chinese manufacturers, indeed the Chinese company would be paying the tariff. Though you can argue they may pass it on, history shows instead the Chinese have lowered the price, and tariffs have had little effect.

 

With other consumer goods it's different of course, when Walmart imports Chinese consumer good that are subject to tariffs of course Walmart will pay the tariff and pass the cost on, that's true.

 

However, Biden of course kept Trump's tariffs, so both Biden and Trump thought these were sound policies. Why? Because they do bring in great revenue into state coffers, and they do make products unattractive the government does not want to be attractive, and they do penalise  manufacturers the government does not like. Even if the Chinese lower prices to keep their cars competitive, this hurts them.

 

What do experts think?

 

"Experts say tariffs on these products will likely have limited effects on consumer goods prices and economic growth. 

 

“These tariffs are very much on the margins, and the impacts on the economy will be a rounding error,” Bernard Yaros, lead US economist at Oxford Economics, told Al Jazeera."

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/5/16/who-benefits-from-us-tariffs-on-chinese-imports-experts-weigh-in

 

I don't agree with this particular Trump policy, because it is clearly protectionist, and I would be in favour in forcing US companies to adapt or die. But I can see the logic, if you're a nationalist and protectionist, then it makes sense.

 

Both Biden and Trump thought so. And so does Harris.

I agree tariff can be useful as I more or less stated in my OP. However both you and me know Trump has been talking about extreme tariffs of over 50 %. A bit like Thailand does. Now your expert can say its in the margins but have you bought a bottle of wine recently (in Thailand)?

[bubblegum]

39 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

The OP is titled 'Tariffs and how Trump is a socialist'!  It started off with a bias against Trump so you can't really accuse candide of turning it into his own political bias.

Try reading it before commenting.

[spidermike007]

45 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

Another copy paste. Trump didnt need to use tariffs, just threatening to use them would set other countries straight. Democrats dont even try, they just let China win.

Like your political master, you see to be very envious of well thought out and articulate replies. Try one sometime. 

[candide]

6 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

What a biased thing to say. Why you do not add Biden/Harris as well as Canada and the EU and even Australia. Why turn this OP into your own political bias against Trump? 

There's a difference between tariffs targeted on specific goods because of hidden subsidies by the exporting countries or industrial policy (chips) and the wide range tariffs policy touted by Trump.

[mdr224]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Like your political master, you see to be very envious of well thought out and articulate replies. Try one sometime. 

You like your posts so much that you have them saved on your computer, and as the biggest hypocrite here you accuse others have having low effort posts

[bubblegum]

59 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

Another copy paste. Trump didnt need to use tariffs, just threatening to use them would set other countries straight. Democrats dont even try, they just let China win.

If you got nothing to say then don't.

[mdr224]

2 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

If you got nothing to say then don't.

Baaaa says the sheep

[bubblegum]

1 hour ago, mdr224 said:

Baaaa says the sheep

Right.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, bubblegum said:

If you got nothing to say then don't.

Thrilled to be getting under your thin skin. Reminds me of someone. Hmm. 

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Who ends up paying for this?

American importers, then passed on to American distributors, then to the retailers, then to the American consumer who pays an even higher price as sales tax (ie., state, county and city each as taxation authorities) is added to the retail price. And as a reminder, POTUS Trump during his term eliminated as a deduction against federal income tax, the sales tax from nonfederal authorities.

[bubblegum]

51 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Thrilled to be getting under your thin skin. Reminds me of someone. Hmm. 

Might you be quoting the wrong person?

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

American importers, then passed on to American distributors, then to the retailers, then to the American consumer who pays an even higher price as sales tax (ie., state, county and city each as taxation authorities) is added to the retail price. And as a reminder, POTUS Trump during his term eliminated as a deduction against federal income tax, the sales tax from nonfederal authorities.

Contrary to his very well fabricated reputation, Trump is a terrible businessman, he cannot negotiate his way out of a paper bag, nearly all of his fortune is stolen, and it is downright  dangerous to put him in the room with either an ally or an adversary, as all it takes is one compliment and he's as soft as butter, or one insult and he loses his mind and his entire train of thought and concentration. 

 

The man is a walking time bomb, one of the most dangerous men on the planet, and the last man in the world who should be the next US president. 

 

 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, bubblegum said:

Might you be quoting the wrong person?

If you got nothing to say then don't.

 

It was your quote.