Honest Question: How is Trump a 'threat to Democracy'?

[Cameroni]

14 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

"Trump has always made clear he will hand the decision on abortion to the states, he can't be bothered with it".

 

A total abdication of responsibility. Having loaded the SCOTUS, then pushed for and claimed victory for overturning Roe v Wade..... he walks away from it all.

 

Not only is it despicable, it shows a total lack of moral leadership....... leaving the States to decide they can murder babies after birth to demand no abortions whatsoever is atrocious.

 

I think it's actually a very democratic position to take. If people in Minnesota want to murder and kill babies up to the 8th month, they are free to do so now.

 

If people in Missouri want to make abortion mostly illegal, then they can do so.

 

After all, the cultural climate in the states is very different, seems like a sage and Solomonic decision.

 

Let's say he were to try to push through Missouri style abortion laws all over the US, this would galvanize pro-abortion fanatics all over the country and cause massive civil unrest. It's a very controversial issue. Leaving aside the fact that there are now strong legal frameworks in the US to deal with this anyway.

 

 

Edited September 19 by Cameroni

[Thingamabob]

9 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

It's tough for Democracy to survive if elected leaders lie.

 

"They're eating the dogs 

They're eating the cats"

 

 

Sadly dogs and cats are eaten in several countries around the world, including Haiti.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

I think it's actully a very democratic position to take. If people in Minnesota want to murder and kill babies up to the 8th month, they are free to do so now.

 

If people in Missouri want to make abortion mostly illegal, then they can do so.

 

After all, the cultural climate in the states is very different, seems like a sage and Solomonic decision.

 

Let's say he were to try to push through Missouri style abortion laws all over the US, this would galvanize pro-abortion fanatics all over the country and cause massive civil unrest. It's a very controversial issue. Leaving aside the fact that there are now strong legal frameworks in the US to deal with this anyway.

 

 

 

 

I think it's actully (sic) a very democratic position to take. If people in Minnesota want to murder and kill babies up to the 8th month, they are free to do so now.

 

I am truly amazed that you can accommodate totally different outcomes and live with the fact your prospective President is a total moral vacuum who can also live with such extremes.......that is not how a  democracy works.......where is the leadership??

[watthong]

[watthong]

"Honest Question"?

 -Okay, your definition of "honest"?

[Cameroni]

5 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

I think it's actully (sic) a very democratic position to take. If people in Minnesota want to murder and kill babies up to the 8th month, they are free to do so now.

 

I am truly amazed that you can accommodate totally different outcomes and live with the fact your prospective President is a total moral vacuum who can also live with such extremes.......that is not how a  democracy works.......where is the leadership??

 

This is the whole essence of democracy, that you accept and respect the "other".

 

It's not a "moral vaccum", it's a diversity of moral perspectives, especially on abortion.

 

 

[Will B Good]

Honest Question: How is Trump a 'threat to Democracy'?

 

Ignore the name Trump in the question, pretend this answer is not about him........

 

......a serious threat to democracy arises when a leader or leaders

 

constantly/frequently lie

gaslight

intentionally mislead

intentionally confuse

don't obey the laws we all have to obey or should be obeying

see themselves above the law

actively employ nepotism to their own and others benefit

deny obvious 'truths'

perpetuate unfounded stories

fabricate stories and defend that by saying they are trying to get a message across

actively use their public office to gain wealth in an immoral fashion

constantly denigrate opponents at a highly personal level

 

No country needs or should want a leader with these 'attributes'.

 

[Will B Good]

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

This is the whole essence of democracy, that you accept and respect the "other".

 

It's not a "moral vaccum", it's a diversity of moral perspectives, especially on abortion.

 

 

 

 

......."a diversity of moral opinions".......1984 here we come.

[earlinclaifornia]

Mystery as Trump supporters experience odd medical condition after sitting behind former president at Arizona rally

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13867101/Mystery-Trump-supporters-experience-odd-medical-condition-Arizona-rally.html

Edited September 19 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[Will B Good]

5 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Mystery as Trump supporters experience odd medical condition after sitting behind former president at Arizona rally

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13867101/Mystery-Trump-supporters-experience-odd-medical-condition-Arizona-rally.html

 

 

Now physically blind as well as morally blind......wow!!!

[digger70]

20 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

In a nutshell - find a copy of "Project 2025" and READ it. Don't just listen to others' opinions. Many of his former staff helped write it, and the forward was written by his VP pick J.D. Vance.

 

45 has denied any association with it. You HAVE to know he is the most prolific, blatant liar ever to be involved in politics at this level.

 

If that doesn't convince you then you don't want to be convinced, you just want to deny, ignore, lie, deflect or obfuscate the truth.

 

Up to you.

Just like Any politician in the world , They are all Liars and cheats 

I will say DT is not the Worst, his now opponents are worse.

You just pick a side what you think is  the best out of the Bad bunch.

[Cameroni]

8 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

......."a diversity of moral opinions".......1984 here we come.

 

Olympics again?

[Will B Good]

5 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Mystery as Trump supporters experience odd medical condition after sitting behind former president at Arizona rally

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13867101/Mystery-Trump-supporters-experience-odd-medical-condition-Arizona-rally.html

 

 

 

 

I wonder if we will see 100's of Trumpettes turn up at the next rally wearing eye patches out of sympathy`for the injured?

 

 

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, mdr224 said:

Indeed, im kissing it goodbye. A country ruled by the media

Biased media, owned by corporations.

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

What is in the Agenda about abortion is diametrically opposed to all that Trump has ever said about his abortion policy, he couldn't even implement that if he wanted to.

You're correct in that Trump cannot directly implement policies that are the state's responsibilities.  However if he is re-elected his influence over state level politics will result in MAGA friendly candidates and thus policies having the edge.

Edited September 19 by gamb00ler

[johng]

53 minutes ago, harryviking said:

Now we need someone with a more clear mind, not a barking mad dog named Trump

Kamala Harris ?

[Cameroni]

Just now, gamb00ler said:

You're correct in that Trump cannot directly implement policies that are the state's responsibilities.  However if he is re-elected his influence over state level politics will indirectly result in MAGA friendly candidates and thus policies having the edge.

 

I am sure we both know that in the US the powers of the president are limited. Even Kamala Harris, if she were to become president would be unable to pass the kind of abortion law she wants to pass. Unless the Democrats would win both Senate and Congress. If the Republicans managed to pull that off they too could pass laws more easily.

 

However, any president would still be constrained by the Supreme Court, so even then making the mailing of abortion pills illegal, like Project 2025 want, would not be possible.

[watthong]

 

At my local mall in working class Samut Prakan, they often moved merchandise from the big store saround and place it at the center court. Often they would hold a book sale there and like a faithful lamb I always ventured to their farang book corner. Fiction and non-fiction. The non-fiction side invariably has lots of warfare stuff, from Lao Tzu to WWx. But one corner is surely dedicated to Hitler and his SS/SA men. If you looked hard, like I did, you would be in vain finding one word, "holocaust." I always wondered why... 

Interestingly, Op's "honest question" re Trump has somehow given me a clue. Thanks,

 

 

Edited September 19 by watthong

[Sheist]

Is this OP serious?  No clue about the real history of this bozo.  He learned much from his former personal attorney Roy Cohn, whom he coldly ignored when revealed as a disbarred gay man in hiding.  Personally convicted of 34 felonies for crimes he did (with evidence and testimony), impeached twice for actions he did, his personally-named company is a felon for crimes he blamed on the guy he personally selected 15 years prior, Weisselberg. and paid him millions and his legal fees through the trials, and on it goes.

 

Found guilty of sexual assault in NY ("rape" in any other state, but NY requires the rapee to look down and verify if it was a finger or a penis that the rapist used to rape her!, hence sexual assault), found twice to have defamed and lied about her in public and fined almost 100 million dollars penalty (if he defames again, they move immediately to the penalty phase!) his former acccountant Mazars revoked all 15 years of financial statements because he lied to them for those and more years and they announced publicly that no business or entity should take his financial statements seriously because of the lies of the client himself (this began the period where he added that hopeless disclaimer statement that was deemed not valid in court), liable for repeated systemic business loan lies and INTENTIONAL, wildly misvalued-property fraud as a course of natural behavior for 10 years at a minimum (finally caught) and fined over 500 million dollars disgorgement, plus 3 of 4 cases waiting to be adjudicated in court, including 1) for ATTEMPTING TO OVERTHROW THE USA IN 2021! and pushing false electors way after the laste date of all his 60+ court cases were thrown out for lack of merit (no evidence), standing, etc - HE WON ZERO COURT CASES defending his "stolen election" fiction story, so the issue with pushing false electors AFTER the final loss date made the continuing action illegal, 2) stealing and refusing to cooperate with the US Justice Dept in returning stolen classified and other official documents from the WH which he neither IS nor WAS legally allowed to take or keep! (the case will be reversed in the Appeals court in November hopefully with a new, non-corrupt judge as his appointed Cannon incorrectly and improperly dismissed the case without legal standing or precedent to do so), Georgia's RICO case where 4 of his former attorneys have pled guilty for assisting him in attempting to overthrow his election loss in 2020 with the bozo caught on tape attempting to strong-arm Georgia officials to just "give him" the votes! (illegal), and the 34-count felony conviction where he was caught and convicted, the sentencing of which will occur in November.  He has 3-4 personal attorneys already disbarred for these activities because his ego can't admit he lost in 2020. 

 

Any more questions?  Don't bother.  Your furious leader told you to ignore it all.  He gave you persons and entities to hate and blame instead.  All former dictators used the same playbook.  Don't think he will do whatever he wants when he gets the keys to the nation's car? 

 

And zero evidence to impeach 46.

 

Bill Maher's assessment is correct: he's over.  His political epitaph will read "they're eating the dogs!"  

 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

51 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

I think it's actually a very democratic position to take. If people in Minnesota want to murder and kill babies up to the 8th month, they are free to do so now.

 

If people in Missouri want to make abortion mostly illegal, then they can do so.

 

After all, the cultural climate in the states is very different, seems like a sage and Solomonic decision.

 

Let's say he were to try to push through Missouri style abortion laws all over the US, this would galvanize pro-abortion fanatics all over the country and cause massive civil unrest. It's a very controversial issue. Leaving aside the fact that there are now strong legal frameworks in the US to deal with this anyway.

They (Trump haters) are just so rabid - Trump has not decided to 'not be bothered with it' - he has accepted the SCOTUS decision.  That decision was that abortion is a health care issue (not a global human right) and therefore whether abortions are legal or not is a State matter as per the Constitution of USA. Some States have banned them except in certain situations (Arizona has OK's up to 15 weeks, then only for proven medical issues), and other States have made them legal - I believe California has made it legal right up until birth.

 

Abortions is being loid about by the Dems and MSM, as an attack against Trump. he has been smarter than last time, and this time he is shutting up about abortions and saying it is a State matter - which it is. 

[watthong]

 

[WDSmart]

2 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

Trump is only trying to stop the Non-Americans from voting. What rubbish you post. 

The Democrats place other Dems in key positions as soon as they take office as well. More rubbish you post. 

He has never strived to become a dictator. This is a tactic used by the Democrats to turn the Republican votes to their party. More utter rubbish you post. 

He can not remove limitations set by the constitution. Maybe you can learn something if reading it. It also tells you he can never become a dictator using the laws in the constitution. It takes many other people to do all the things you accuse Trump of doing. So your reasons are now turned to garbage.  Try posting things with facts to support what you say. 

"Non-Americans" (non-citizens?) are already not allowed to vote. What Trump and the Republicans are doing is making it much more difficult for citizens to register and vote by imposing ID requirements that many citizens, especially minorities and the poor, cannot meet. You hurt my feelings when you say I post "rubbish." 

Yes, both parties place allies in key positions when they take office. I never said they didn't. I guess this comment of yours was in response to my mention of gerrymandering, which I agree both parties do. Oh, more accusations of "rubbish"! You hurt my feelings again! 

Trump has always wanted and has consistently tried to become a dictator. More hurt feelings! 

Trump does not care about the US Constitution. As any dictator would, he will try to do what he wants without any regard to the Constitution. Just one example of that is what led up to the Jan 6 Insurrection. He tried to have his vice president, Pence, accept votes from states from Electors who were not appointed by their state. Pence, however, knowing the limits of his constitutional authority, refused to do so. Then, the insurrection ensued. And accusations of posting "garbage" also hurts my feelings! 

If you'll re-read my initial post, you'll see I prefaced all of my remarks with "IMO," which means "in my opinion." Most everything could be "supported by facts," if by that you mean "references to online sources," but as I'm sure you know, all of us can find online sources for almost anything we want, true or not. That's the state of the online world today. I guess you could say much of it is "rubbish" or "garbage." 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

54 minutes ago, Sheist said:

Found guilty of sexual assault in NY

Lie.  

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

I think it's actually a very democratic position to take. If people in Minnesota want to murder and kill babies up to the 8th month, they are free to do so now.

 

If people in Missouri want to make abortion mostly illegal, then they can do so.

 

After all, the cultural climate in the states is very different, seems like a sage and Solomonic decision.

 

Let's say he were to try to push through Missouri style abortion laws all over the US, this would galvanize pro-abortion fanatics all over the country and cause massive civil unrest. It's a very controversial issue. Leaving aside the fact that there are now strong legal frameworks in the US to deal with this anyway.

 

 

I guess that means that, to your way of thinking,  in states like Kansas and Ohio, the majority of voters are pro-abortion fanatics.

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Sheist said:

Is this OP serious?  No clue about the real history of this bozo.  He learned much from his former personal attorney Roy Cohn, whom he coldly ignored when revealed as a disbarred gay man in hiding.  Personally convicted of 34 felonies for crimes he did (with evidence and testimony), impeached twice for actions he did, his personally-named company is a felon for crimes he blamed on the guy he personally selected 15 years prior, Weisselberg. and paid him millions and his legal fees through the trials, and on it goes.

 

Found guilty of sexual assault in NY ("rape" in any other state, but NY requires the rapee to look down and verify if it was a finger or a penis that the rapist used to rape her!, hence sexual assault), found twice to have defamed and lied about her in public and fined almost 100 million dollars penalty (if he defames again, they move immediately to the penalty phase!) his former acccountant Mazars revoked all 15 years of financial statements because he lied to them for those and more years and they announced publicly that no business or entity should take his financial statements seriously because of the lies of the client himself (this began the period where he added that hopeless disclaimer statement that was deemed not valid in court), liable for repeated systemic business loan lies and INTENTIONAL, wildly misvalued-property fraud as a course of natural behavior for 10 years at a minimum (finally caught) and fined over 500 million dollars disgorgement, plus 3 of 4 cases waiting to be adjudicated in court, including 1) for ATTEMPTING TO OVERTHROW THE USA IN 2021! and pushing false electors way after the laste date of all his 60+ court cases were thrown out for lack of merit (no evidence), standing, etc - HE WON ZERO COURT CASES defending his "stolen election" fiction story, so the issue with pushing false electors AFTER the final loss date made the continuing action illegal, 2) stealing and refusing to cooperate with the US Justice Dept in returning stolen classified and other official documents from the WH which he neither IS nor WAS legally allowed to take or keep! (the case will be reversed in the Appeals court in November hopefully with a new, non-corrupt judge as his appointed Cannon incorrectly and improperly dismissed the case without legal standing or precedent to do so), Georgia's RICO case where 4 of his former attorneys have pled guilty for assisting him in attempting to overthrow his election loss in 2020 with the bozo caught on tape attempting to strong-arm Georgia officials to just "give him" the votes! (illegal), and the 34-count felony conviction where he was caught and convicted, the sentencing of which will occur in November.  He has 3-4 personal attorneys already disbarred for these activities because his ego can't admit he lost in 2020. 

 

Any more questions?  Don't bother.  Your furious leader told you to ignore it all.  He gave you persons and entities to hate and blame instead.  All former dictators used the same playbook.  Don't think he will do whatever he wants when he gets the keys to the nation's car? 

 

And zero evidence to impeach 46.

 

Bill Maher's assessment is correct: he's over.  His political epitaph will read "they're eating the dogs!"  

 

 

As soon as you start with the "convicted of 34 felonies" and try to make it sound so epic, you lose most normal people. He messed up the paperwork used to paid a porn star to shut up. "Convicted of 34 felonies" is a crass and childish attempt to make it sound like he is a mass murderer. 

 

In the end, all his legal machinations about the election came to nothing. The American legal system is more than enough to handle whatever happens.   Seems there is a huge missing link between "Trump wins election" and "Trump becomes dictator". Nobody seems to know how to bridge that gap. 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

 Seems there is a huge missing link between "Trump wins election" and "Trump becomes dictator". Nobody seems to know how to bridge that gap. 

How's this for a bridge?

Trump threatens lawyers, donors and election officials with prison for 'unscrupulous behavior'
Trump and his allies filed dozens of unsuccessful cases after the 2020 election in an attempt to overturn the results.

Former President Donald Trump, who makes frequent false claims that the 2020 presidential election was stolen through rampant fraud, warned Saturday that he would try to imprison anyone who engages in "unscrupulous behavior" during this year's race.

He issued the threat on Truth Social, his social media website, and repeated his false claims that the 2020 election was stolen, accusing Democrats of "rampant Cheating and Skullduggery."

“The 2024 Election, where Votes have just started being cast, will be under the closest professional scrutiny and, WHEN I WIN, those people that CHEATED will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the Law, which will include long term prison sentences so that this Depravity of Justice does not happen again," he wrote.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-warns-prison-sentences-people-cheated-2024-rcna170088

[Sheist]

3 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Lie.  

 

Your assessment is factually and legally incorrrect.  He was found guilty by a jury of his peers, not any person or group he told his followers to hate.

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db

 

Also:

 

"The main difference between sexual assault and sexual abuse is that sexual assault occurs to adults and sexual abuse occurs to minors or children."

 

 

[Cameroni]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I guess that means that, to your way of thinking,  in states like Kansas and Ohio, the majority of voters are pro-abortion fanatics.

 

I like Missouri's abortion laws. Ohio and Kansas seem moderate.

[Cameroni]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

As soon as you start with the "convicted of 34 felonies" and try to make it sound so epic, you lose most normal people. He messed up the paperwork used to paid a porn star to shut up. "Convicted of 34 felonies" is a crass and childish attempt to make it sound like he is a mass murderer. 

 

 

It's always so funny when they emphasize "a THIRTY-FOUR times convicted felon"...until you realise the 34 counts related to 34 payslips paid to a lawyer. 

 

You can't make it up.

[placeholder]

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

I like Missouri's abortion laws. Ohio and Kansas seem moderate.

According to your criterion, those moderate laws were overturned by pro-abortion fanatics. Who apparently constitute a majority of the citizenry of those states.