Avoid to pay tax

[rwill]

Don't buy anything otherwise you will be paying VAT.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, ThiAmo said:

Have I missed them... the new Income tax forms 2024 in English, promised repeatedly to be available for december at the latest?? 

By what means do you declare your taxes now? 

Thank you and sorry if I have overlooked. 

We're still waiting for them to be published, since we're now in tax filing season, I suspect they will become available, after the new years holiday.

[jojothai]

On 12/31/2024 at 10:53 AM, mfd101 said:

(1) Fill out Thai tax declaration, pointing out the relevant (difficult to understand - even for me) section in the Thai/Oz DTA, which appears to say that my second source above - the only relevant one - can be taxed ONLY in Oz; OR

 

Just checking, for item 2 that would be correct if using clause 19 for services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions.

 

For category 1 however, you still have a liability for the income on the investment. But currently only if you are remitting it to Thailand (unless they change to worldwide income). 
If the income is small then it should not be a problem regarding tax, however if it is large you need to work it out. But be careful.

If you are remitting say 400 to 500, 000 baht under 1. and get investment income / gains of 10% then you may think that by ratio the taxable amount may be negligible. However the TRD may consider that the remittance is from only the income gained, then the picture can change markedly.

Your Oz bank will exchange their information with Thailand under the CRS  requirements.

Investment gains is either income or capital gains. For Thailand capital gains is taxed as income. So either way the investment gains are income, regardless of how Australia treats it.

I suggest that you need to get the Oz bank to work out how you can split the account into two, savings from before 2024  and put investment income/ gains into the second account before each year end for the statements by the oz bank. Then only make transmittals from the savings part and be able to prove it from the bank information for each year end. Basically, do not remit from the gains on the investment. You can use that in Oz .
This is the same potential issue for me (and other people?). I do not transmit money here yet. But in the future will need to do so. I plan to do what i have stated. However, if the TRD changes to worldwide income it will not be any use.

 

[mfd101]

10 minutes ago, jojothai said:

For category 1 however, you still have a liability for the income on the investment. But currently only if you are remitting it to Thailand (unless they change to worldwide income). 

The investment AND its earnings are free of tax in Oz. That's part of the early retirement package from my ancient federal government superannuation scheme (CSS - closed to newcomers in the early 1990s precisely because it was too generous). I expect that the relevant clause of the DTA means that the earnings of that investment - untaxable in Oz - cannot be taxed in Thailand.

 

It would be a weird outcome if that were not the case.

[wwest5829]

On 12/30/2024 at 11:07 AM, KannikaP said:

Yep, another Bht 190k is allowed, so up to 400k before you need to worry about it.

65,000 baht minimum to be brought into Thailand every month for retirement extension (monthly method). Help me understand. Immigration required income, revenue department says it will now be taxed?

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

65,000 baht minimum to be brought into Thailand every month for retirement extension (monthly method). Help me understand. Immigration required income, revenue department says it will now be taxed?

Maybe.

 

IF you are a Thai tax resident.

IF the source of the funds is not excluded from Thai taxation under your nation's Double Taxation Agreement (for example U.S. social security which is excluded from Thai tax)

Thai deductions applied such as for being over age 65

Possibly double taxation treaty can be used as credits for Thai tax due, if any.

Enjoy!

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

65,000 baht minimum to be brought into Thailand every month for retirement extension (monthly method). Help me understand. Immigration required income, revenue department says it will now be taxed?

If you are using the current year income method your only sensible option is to invoke the DTA. Assuming the income isn't excluded income under the terms of the DTA, you will need to use the tax paid on that income in your home country to offset any Thai tax liability.

[KannikaP]

4 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

65,000 baht minimum to be brought into Thailand every month for retirement extension (monthly method). Help me understand. Immigration required income, revenue department says it will now be taxed?

I am lucky that my IO in Phitsanulok will accept the Combination Method, where he allows the total of money in the bank plus monthly remittances must be over 800k. I have 420k in the bank and send 35k per month = 420k. That's over the 400k threshold, but my local Taxman is also very amenable.

[topt]

27 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

but my local Taxman is also very amenable.

Please correct me if I remember incorrectly but wasn't it you who was one of the first to publicly claim having gone to the TRD and got a TIN and paid 5-7k in tax based on your remittances?

[chiang mai]

6 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

If you listen carefully to Mr Hart, in the video above, and the one below, posted on internet 3 hours ago

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N754HjfStfA

 

 

Mr Hart is still confusing 2 things, Joining OECD and CRS, which Thailand joined, by Royal Degree, on 31 March 2023.

Well spotted! I think it's safe to assume there aren't many who understand the entire picture, each appears to be carving out just their own particular niche area.....which makes me even more concerned about what regional TRD officers understand. Have to say, this is turning into a debacle of the highest order.

[chiang mai]

34 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I am lucky that my IO in Phitsanulok will accept the Combination Method, where he allows the total of money in the bank plus monthly remittances must be over 800k. I have 420k in the bank and send 35k per month = 420k. That's over the 400k threshold, but my local Taxman is also very amenable.

There is no 400k threshold, presumably you mean the after TEDA amount?

[The Cyclist]

45 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

65,000 baht minimum to be brought into Thailand every month for retirement extension (monthly method). Help me understand. Immigration required income, revenue department says it will now be taxed?

 

For anyone using the income method. Immigration do not care what that money is spent on.

 

Dancing ladies, alcohol, rent boys or the Thai Taxman is of no concern to Immigration.

 

Which may, or may not change at some point in the future.

[jojothai]

13 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

The investment AND its earnings are free of tax in Oz. That's part of the early retirement package from my ancient federal government superannuation scheme (CSS - closed to newcomers in the early 1990s precisely because it was too generous). I expect that the relevant clause of the DTA means that the earnings of that investment - untaxable in Oz - cannot be taxed in Thailand.

 

It would be a weird outcome if that were not the case.

Understood.
Clause 19 governmental service clause 2 applies to exempt the pension (unless you got Thai nationality).
Your case may be hard to judge for the Thais if they can see that its coming from an investment scheme. It may depend on how your bank shows the amounts in their information to TRD.
Maybe best that you check how the bank shows the income account / amounts in your statements or what they report. So it will only be regarded as "pension" income.
There are standard forms for what the banks have to report for CRS.
I did manage to find the standards but cannot readily understand them. There is a lot involved. It would take some effort that I do not need to spend yet.

I do not know whether an individual can ask to see the information sent by the bank to the TRD.

FYI, I have just seen my offshore bank statements for end 2024. They show transactions through the year and when I transferred my personal pension out from trustees to the bank in 2024,they show a code PEN with reference number. That may signify that the bank has classed it as from pension funds which had been stated on the inward remittance from my trustees.
A "PEN" code was shown against the transfer out I just made recently directly to my thai wife as a gift.
Plausible that the amount is currently being classed against pension Income.

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Well spotted! I think it's safe to assume there aren't many who understand the entire picture, each appears to be carving out just their own particular niche area.....which makes me even more concerned about what regional TRD officers understand. Have to say, this is turning into a debacle of the highest order.

 

I said right from the start that this was going to resemble Immigration, different offices, probably doing different things.

 

So for every utterance of " What we lnow so far " was a joke then, is a joke today, and reality will not be known until people rock up at their RD and go from there.

 

The only picture I understand is my own, I wont be filing 😀😀

[KannikaP]

22 minutes ago, topt said:

Please correct me if I remember incorrectly but wasn't it you who was one of the first to publicly claim having gone to the TRD and got a TIN and paid 5-7k in tax based on your remittances?

Yes & no. In April 2023 I went to my local, Bang Rakam, tax office to ask if I needed a Tax number. The very nice man said yes, it can be done, put my financial details into the PC. At the time I was transferring 40k per month = 480k, plus 420 in the bank. He charged me 200 Bht for filing late. This year I went in February, and gave him my figures, which are now 35k per month = 420 Bht. 

No tax to pay.

[KannikaP]

27 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

There is no 400k threshold, presumably you mean the after TEDA amount?

190k for me being over 65, 60k for the Mrs and 150k @ 0% = 400k.

[TheAppletons]

35 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

For anyone using the income method. Immigration do not care what that money is spent on.

 

Dancing ladies, alcohol, rent boys or the Thai Taxman is of no concern to Immigration.

 

Which may, or may not change at some point in the future.

 

  I think you may have misunderstood the poster (wwest5829) to whom you replied.

 

  As I read his post, he was attempting to make the point that Immigration requires the remittance of 65K/month for the income method and now TRD is saying that money is going to be taxed.  

 

  The answer to that question is quite possibly "yes" (individual circumstances dependent.)

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  I think you may have misunderstood the poster (wwest5829) to whom you replied.

 

  As I read his post, he was attempting to make the point that Immigration requires the remittance of 65K/month for the income method and now TRD is saying that money is going to be taxed.  

 

  The answer to that question is quite possibly "yes" (individual circumstances dependent.)

 

Yes, its a possiblity, but unconnected.

 

You remit 65k a month for immigration purposes and put aside 1k* a month for tax purposes.

 

* Or whatever figure you deem neccessary to cover your potential tax bill.

 

I'm not really getting why anyone would would struggle with that concept.

[KannikaP]

15 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Yes, its a possiblity, but unconnected.

 

You remit 65k a month for immigration purposes and put aside 1k* a month for tax purposes.

 

* Or whatever figure you deem neccessary to cover your potential tax bill.

 

I'm not really getting why anyone would would struggle with that concept.

65k per month = 780k. Of that you get 190k for you, 60k for the Mrs and 150k @ 0%, leaving 380k on which you pay tax.

150-300k is @ 5%, (15000) and the other 80k is @ 10%. (8k) totalling 23k tax. So putting aside 2k per month would make more sense.

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

65k per month = 780k. Of that you get 190k for you, 60k for the Mrs and 150k @ 0%, leaving 380k on which you pay tax.

150-300k is @ 5%, (15000) and the other 80k is @ 10%. (8k) totalling 23k tax. So putting aside 2k per month would make more sense.

 

Thanks

 

22 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

* Or whatever figure you deem neccessary to cover your potential tax bill.

 

😉😉😉

[SiSePuede419]

Freeloader Bum.

 

[KhunHeineken]

35 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Freeloader Bum.

 

Yes, but he'll tell you he ploughs money into the Thai economy, and how the Thai government would never get rid of him because they would lose too much money.  

[Jack1988]

On 12/31/2024 at 6:13 AM, Presnock said:

 

 If one wants to avoid ever paying taxes anywhere, that is a personal problem maybe.

 

yes, I don't want to pay tax anywhere

[Presnock]

7 hours ago, Jack1988 said:

yes, I don't want to pay tax anywhere

apparently, based on the numerous comments on this forum, not many people do appreciate paying taxes to any country - now people are upset due to the CRS FACTA and OECD changes to taxation in many countries but these programs are in efforts to get everybody paying what is considered by govts to be one's fair share whether or not individuals agree.  I am not a fan of taxes but realize the need for them.  Unfortunately, too many govts and politicians abuse the use of their citizens' tax payments.  As an American, I have never considered never paying my taxes no matter where I have lived.  There are still some countries that are more lenient in the taxation of different groups of people, i.e. the Philippines and expat pensioners but eventually Thailand may or may not do the worldwide income taxation scheme to capture expats but maybe just to catch their own citizens that have managed to escape the revenue department.  Best of luck to all.

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, Jack1988 said:

yes, I don't want to pay tax anywhere

You know the saying about death and taxes. 

 

If you don't want to pay tax, that only leaves the other option.  

[Jack1988]

On 1/4/2025 at 3:19 PM, KhunHeineken said:

You know the saying about death and taxes. 

 

If you don't want to pay tax, that only leaves the other option.  

No problem for me. You can pay tax if you like

[wwest5829]

On 1/2/2025 at 5:09 PM, Jingthing said:

Maybe.

 

IF you are a Thai tax resident.

IF the source of the funds is not excluded from Thai taxation under your nation's Double Taxation Agreement (for example U.S. social security which is excluded from Thai tax)

Thai deductions applied such as for being over age 65

Possibly double taxation treaty can be used as credits for Thai tax due, if any.

Enjoy!

Thanks. Really just wanted to elicit an answer. American, retired, read the Tax Treaty. While I am a year round resident, IMHO will not apply to me. I will await notification from the Embassy of the USA in Bangkok that this will need my attention. Only US Social Security and state government retirement sources of monthly income. My Thai based USA Income Tax preparer advises, “jai yen, yen”.

[wwest5829]

On 1/2/2025 at 5:12 PM, chiang mai said:

If you are using the current year income method your only sensible option is to invoke the DTA. Assuming the income isn't excluded income under the terms of the DTA, you will need to use the tax paid on that income in your home country to offset any Thai tax liability.

Therein lies a potential conflict for me. As a U.S. citizen, subject to income tax on worldwide income my taxation in the USA is “no tax due” (I am poor by US tax standards). Hmm, but as a Thai year round retiree resident? Thailand says my required income results in taxation because I am not poor (I ignore the DTA here)?

[treetops]

On 1/8/2025 at 3:05 AM, wwest5829 said:

I will await notification from the Embassy of the USA in Bangkok that this will need my attention.

 

Do you really think the US Embassy are going to get involved to any extent?

[Jingthing]

On 1/8/2025 at 10:10 AM, wwest5829 said:

Therein lies a potential conflict for me. As a U.S. citizen, subject to income tax on worldwide income my taxation in the USA is “no tax due” (I am poor by US tax standards). Hmm, but as a Thai year round retiree resident? Thailand says my required income results in taxation because I am not poor (I ignore the DTA here)?

It depends on what exactly are the sources of your U.S. income that you remit. You may indeed owe Thai tax or you may not.