Do you personally care about the future of Ukraine? (nobody will know)

[hotandsticky]

50 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

No, it's not. And once that war is finally over, guess whom media and politicians will blame for all ills in society, economy, and politics - Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump... (And no, my country isn't the U.S. either.)

 

 

I won't blame Trump.

 

Possibly coming from the same country as you, I quite like some elements of strong leadership.

[bkk6060]

Could careless because either way they, will blame the west.  100's of billions and thankless Zelensky is bad mouthing.  Terrible really, if you go their some day they will probably spit in your face and tell you to go to H.

[Sir Dude]

22 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I have to admit I had to look it up on a map.

I don't think many people know it and I guess very few will care about it.

 

Well, that's a prize for Moscow, hence why it goes to very long lengths to garrison and supply the area known as Transnistria, a Russian enclave in Moldova. This place is one of the gaps in geography that allows access to the Russian interior or steppes and anywhere you can drive a division of tanks through, the Kremlin wants control over.

That's what this Russian aggression is all about, the access points to the Russian space... there are 7 of them, and when the Soviet Union was around, they controled all of them, but when it fell they lost control of most of them. This is why we have had the Chechen/Georgian wars because that is one access point that Russia has been historically attacked from, Moldova is another gap but is on the other side of Ukraine, Poland and the Silwalki Gap to Kalinningrad is another, Estonia and the Baltics are more. 

Russia is paranoid about this and wants natural barriers as defence (which are offered next to these gaps when you check the geography), then can just plonk a division or so in the gaps, and ta-da, it's fixed. When you look back through history, the Russian steppes have all been invaded through these access points, from the Ottoman Empire to the Nazis etc. That's what they really want and why they are so pissed that Nato has expanded so far as it places some of these gap out of reach (and Putin wants to roll things back to the Soviet times). This should explain their paranoia about security... all about these strategic points/access gaps.

[Mike_Hunt]

Russia sucks.  The only way Russia will give up the land they occupy in Ukraine is if someone removes them with force.    Who is going to do that? 

[Mike_Hunt]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

The reality is that Ukrainians living in the Russian areas will experience a higher GDP per capita and a better quality of life than those who live in the rest of Ukraine. 

 

That's not an endorsement of Putin.  I's a statement of fact, based on widely available data.  Russia's economy was better, and though it's corrupt, it's less corrupt than Ukraine.

 

It's like if the USA invaded Baja Mexico.  The inhabitants would see a massive improvement in their quality of life.  But that doesn't mean I advocate an invasion.

 

The Russian held areas are a mess.   It will require billions to rebuild. Which Russia does not have. 

[cdemundo]

No doubt he will stop with the Sudetenland.

 

Oh wait, there's a rule about bringing that up.

 

But the thing is it is very relevant.

[bokningar]

Interesting to see that 21 % of all voted here i Russian trolls or bots. And quite scary.

I guess this will make me spend less time here from now on.

[AlexRich]

I think this issue is much more than just the fate of Ukraine, it is about the world that we want to live in and where this will all lead to. The rules of law in world affairs are deteriorating fast, we are moving quickly into a world where “might is right”. And laws don’t matter anymore. 
 

So, for Europe, they better get serious about their defensive capabilities before Putin divides and conquers. I suspect that the US will soon withdraw from NATO and that the Baltic states and the rest of Ukraine will be on the Russian menu. Not immediately, first they will use lifted sanctions to get the war machine up to full strength. And if Europe doesn’t offer any resistance they will start carving up their neighbours. There are many pro Russian sponsored political parties in Europe - Hungary and Slovakia are run by them and others are fighting hard to lead countries. Reform UK being one, the Afd in Germany being the other. But they are everywhere. If these parties can gain positions of power we will all be under the influence of Russia and heading towards authoritarian regimes. The new century will be an Orwellian nightmare. 
 

And that’s why this issue is about more than just Ukraine. 

[bokningar]

11 hours ago, bangadang said:

Zelensky is unelected and elections banned

A lot of countries constitutions wont allow elections during war, and that is the case in Ukraine. Anyone suggesting stuff that is against the constitution of a country doesn't really want to find a solution.

[LosLobo]

4 hours ago, Njoku said:

Other, and why?  When the Soviet Union was considering breaking up and looked for guarantees from the US and others that the possible future independent republics would not be offered Nato membership, it was given.

 

One by one the former republics where offered Nato membership, you can read about it here, https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

 

Call Putin a dictator, insecure what ever, he has very good reason to not trust the west, have we forgotten the Cuban missile crisis? that started first when the US placed long range nuclear missiles able to reach Moscow in Turkey, Russia then did the same thing in Cuba, what we didnt hear about for years from the press or from the US government was the deal to pull out of Turkey if the Russians would pull theres out of Cuba.

 

Unfortunately Ukraine has been a pawn of the bigger player in this who for what ever reasons they had wanted to keep a bit of the Cold War going, no doubt Ukraine has there own issues and desires but by allowing themselves to jump into bed with a Nation that has shown countless times when the time comes they will just up and leave.

 

The deal was always going to be what ever the Russians took land wise they would keep with puppet governments in place, The idea that Ukraine was going to win, winning what ever was pure press and Nato propaganda, Love or Loath at least Trump may end the war, as the outcome would have always been the same no matter who was in charge.

While verbal assurances were given to Gorbachev about NATO not expanding, nothing was signed or legally binding.

This differs from the Budapest Memorandum (1994), where the U.S., U.K., and Russia formally committed to respect and Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons. The memorandum also included a commitment to support Ukraine if was attacked.

This Russia violated with its annexation of Crimea and invasion of Donbas in 2014.

Now, Trump wants to violate this Memorandum with his current stance on throwing Ukraine under the bus.
 

[simon43]

On 2/19/2025 at 5:58 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

In a nice and fair world Russia would not have invaded Ukraine.

And in a nice and fair world Russia should give back all the land they occupied and give reparations to Ukraine.

 

But this world is not fair.

Now Trump and Putin talk about economy and how to end this war and make some profitable deal for both leaders. And nobody asks Ukraine.

That is obviously not nice and not fair and all that. But at the end of the day who expects that this world is fair?

Is it better to have no war and maybe no Ukraine anymore?

 

I am interested how people will vote here, anonymous. 

Obviously, you can explain in a post how you voted and why. But you don't have to.

I think many of us want a fair solution. But at the end of the day how many of us know someone in Ukraine and really care?

What is your opinion?

 

Wow, some biased options in your poll...

 

I'm old enough to remember when the 'west' promised (on several public occasions) Russia that NATO would never extend eastwards - and then they did just that!

 

Don't anger the Russian bear...

[simon43]

On 2/19/2025 at 7:37 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I have to admit I had to look it up on a map.

I don't think many people know it and I guess very few will care about it.

Apparently it is the most boring country in Europe to visit.

[johng]

46 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The rules of law in world affairs are deteriorating fast, we are moving quickly into a world where “might is right”. And laws don’t matter anymore.

 

That has been the case at least since the last WW...difference now is that there are more powers with the "might to be right"  not just "uncle SAM"

the so called "rules based order"  is being challenged, and good as the rules only

applied to certain entities whilst others  ignored them or worse  thought they are exempt !

[blaze master]

5 hours ago, 248900_1469958220 said:

Why dont all you liberal fags that are ranting about this put your boots on and get cracking? Maybe you can turn up to the UK in a boat , with no papers , get a free house and then join Starmers barmy army that he wants to send...How about that?....

 

P.S : Send pics. 

 

Nice homophonic slur. Who even uses that word anymore.

 

You can park your dinosaur outback. 

[blaze master]

50 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I think this issue is much more than just the fate of Ukraine, it is about the world that we want to live in and where this will all lead to. The rules of law in world affairs are deteriorating fast, we are moving quickly into a world where “might is right”. And laws don’t matter anymore. 
 

So, for Europe, they better get serious about their defensive capabilities before Putin divides and conquers. I suspect that the US will soon withdraw from NATO and that the Baltic states and the rest of Ukraine will be on the Russian menu. Not immediately, first they will use lifted sanctions to get the war machine up to full strength. And if Europe doesn’t offer any resistance they will start carving up their neighbours. There are many pro Russian sponsored political parties in Europe - Hungary and Slovakia are run by them and others are fighting hard to lead countries. Reform UK being one, the Afd in Germany being the other. But they are everywhere. If these parties can gain positions of power we will all be under the influence of Russia and heading towards authoritarian regimes. The new century will be an Orwellian nightmare. 
 

And that’s why this issue is about more than just Ukraine. 

 

Hahahhhaahahsh

[Mike_Hunt]

3 minutes ago, blaze master said:

 

Nice homophonic slur. Who even uses that word anymore.

 

You can park your dinosaur outback. 

When you putting on your boots and heading to Ukraine?

[blaze master]

1 minute ago, Mike_Hunt said:

When you putting on your boots and heading to Ukraine?

 

Why would I do something stupid like that ? 

 

And what relevance does that have to the posters homophonic slur ? It's almost like you're defending that poster. 

 

Crazy stuff.

[swissie]

There is a chance that Russian troops will appear at the Ukrainian/Hungarian border within 3 to 5 years.

 

It is THEN when Europeans will start to show true interest in something that happens less than 1000 km away.

[theblether]

AFAIC the Baltic states led the way with rapid moves to join NATO in the 1990's. Ukraine couldn't do so as it was still in the grip of Russian nationalists. The 2006 declaration by the Europeans saying that Ukraine would be welcome in NATO was undone by the 2010 Parliamentary vote saying no thanks. 

 

This invasion was telegraphed a mile off and Biden could have done more to make Putin think twice. 

 

I would have loved Ukraine to have defeated Russia but it now looks impossible. As it now looks impossible my thoughts are - do a deal, surrender the Donbass, stop the killing - and I would love Ukraine to now be fast-tracked into NATO.

[theblether]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

I think this issue is much more than just the fate of Ukraine, it is about the world that we want to live in and where this will all lead to. The rules of law in world affairs are deteriorating fast, we are moving quickly into a world where “might is right”. And laws don’t matter anymore. 
 

So, for Europe, they better get serious about their defensive capabilities before Putin divides and conquers. I suspect that the US will soon withdraw from NATO and that the Baltic states and the rest of Ukraine will be on the Russian menu. Not immediately, first they will use lifted sanctions to get the war machine up to full strength. And if Europe doesn’t offer any resistance they will start carving up their neighbours. There are many pro Russian sponsored political parties in Europe - Hungary and Slovakia are run by them and others are fighting hard to lead countries. Reform UK being one, the Afd in Germany being the other. But they are everywhere. If these parties can gain positions of power we will all be under the influence of Russia and heading towards authoritarian regimes. The new century will be an Orwellian nightmare. 
 

And that’s why this issue is about more than just Ukraine. 

 

You mention Germany - the same guys that opened the door to mass migration and laughed at Trump when he warned them about energy security and depending on Russia for their energy needs. 

 

The same clowns who shut down their nuclear reactors. 

 

The biggest single threat to the West is that we are now run by a managerial class who are cowardly and brainless. It is the definition of strong men make good times, weak men make bad times. 

 

Excessive empathy will kill the West and that will have dire consequences for the world. 

[impulse]

2 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

The Russian held areas are a mess.   It will require billions to rebuild. Which Russia does not have. 

 

Does anyone think that wailing on each other for another year or so will make it any cheaper to rebuild? 

 

It's time for the dying to stop and the rebuilding to begin.  It's about 2 years (and hundreds of thousands of deaths) past time.

 

 

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

There is a chance that Russian troops will appear at the Ukrainian/Hungarian border within 3 to 5 years.

 

It is THEN when Europeans will start to show true interest in something that happens less than 1000 km away.

If Trump lets Putin get his way that could happen in 3 to 5 weeks!

[biervoormij]

4 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

 

Well, that's a prize for Moscow, hence why it goes to very long lengths to garrison and supply the area known as Transnistria, a Russian enclave in Moldova. This place is one of the gaps in geography that allows access to the Russian interior or steppes and anywhere you can drive a division of tanks through, the Kremlin wants control over.

That's what this Russian aggression is all about, the access points to the Russian space... there are 7 of them, and when the Soviet Union was around, they controled all of them, but when it fell they lost control of most of them. This is why we have had the Chechen/Georgian wars because that is one access point that Russia has been historically attacked from, Moldova is another gap but is on the other side of Ukraine, Poland and the Silwalki Gap to Kalinningrad is another, Estonia and the Baltics are more. 

Russia is paranoid about this and wants natural barriers as defence (which are offered next to these gaps when you check the geography), then can just plonk a division or so in the gaps, and ta-da, it's fixed. When you look back through history, the Russian steppes have all been invaded through these access points, from the Ottoman Empire to the Nazis etc. That's what they really want and why they are so pissed that Nato has expanded so far as it places some of these gap out of reach (and Putin wants to roll things back to the Soviet times). This should explain their paranoia about security... all about these strategic points/access gaps.

I wonder if Georgia would be next since Russia has occupied parts of Georgia since 2008. Also since Georgia does not have a border with a NATO or EU nation it might be considered less important to protect.

 

I am sure that Russia is also very upset with Finland becoming a NATO member. That is a very long border.

 

 

[Mike_Hunt]

3 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

Why would I do something stupid like that ? 

 

And what relevance does that have to the posters homophonic slur ? It's almost like you're defending that poster. 

 

Crazy stuff.

Why are so stuck on a homophonic slur rather than address the post? 

[blaze master]

21 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Why are so stuck on a homophonic slur rather than address the post? 

 

Because of the bias. Rules for thee but not for me. 

 

It's disgusting. 

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, bokningar said:

Interesting to see that 21 % of all voted here i Russian trolls or bots. And quite scary.

I guess this will make me spend less time here from now on.

 

With some posters I agree with your impression.

But the question is if people personally care about Ukraine. 

How many of us ever visited that region? How many of us would know if Ukraine ever existed? How many would feel any personal difference if Ukraine would not exist anymore tomorrow? I guess the answer to all these questions is: few.

 

I am sure many of us would love to see a fair solution for any conflict in this world (and other conflicts). But in reality, we know often there are no fair solutions. And if it is far enough away from us like in the next village or at the other end of the world we don't really care.

[nomad22]

If Ukraine falls, who's next?  Poland?  Lithuania?  Finland?

 

At what point will those of you being spoon fed Russian propaganda start caring?

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, nomad22 said:

If Ukraine falls, who's next?  Poland?  Lithuania?  Finland?

At what point will those of you being spoon fed Russian propaganda start caring?

I don't care what bunch of rich folk run my country or any of the neighboring countries.

It's unlikely to affect my life in any negative way.

 

Why do you care?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, nomad22 said:

If Ukraine falls, who's next?  Poland?  Lithuania?  Finland?

 

At what point will those of you being spoon fed Russian propaganda start caring?

 

There is a huge difference. The countries you mention are part of NATO. And anybody who starts a war against a NATO member knows that they start a war against NATO. In such a war all NATO countries could join the fight on day one.

 

Ukraine is not part of NATO. Other countries helped because they saw the unfairness of the invasion. They didn't have to help. That is a huge difference. And obviously if many NATO countries would fight with all their military, then that would be WWIII. Nobody wants that. 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't care what bunch of rich folk run my country or any of the neighboring countries.

It's unlikely to affect my life in any negative way.

 

Why do you care?

 

Imagine someone would burn your house down. And all your neighbors would say: We don't care, it was his house, not our houses.