Ukraine Backs U.S. Ceasefire Proposal, Awaiting Russian Response

[Cameroni]

2 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Maybe Ukraine needs to come to terms with its own atrocities.

 

This is a good point, the Ukrainians too have committed killings of civilians and atrocities in this war.  

 

 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Trump won’t sanction putin that’s just noise trump wants to force Ukraine to surrender without guarantees or any territory returned then after trump delivers a victory to the enemy he will lift sanctions off putin

Trump sanctioned Russia in his first term, Biden came into office and lifted the sanctions. 

 

Trump initiated arms shipments to Ukraine, including Javelin missiles, Biden came into office and stopped the shipments. 

 

But but but orange man bad. 

[Purdey]

I am absolutely certain that Russia will sign a security agreement with Ukraine. The proof?

 

Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, on December 5, 1994, providing a multilateral agreement affirming Ukraine's security and sovereignty in exchange for giving up Ukraine's nuclear stocks. What more do you need?

[transam]

14 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

I can spell perfectly well....

Cretinous clown... see

Oh look, more foot stomping from Putin's western puppet......... 

[Yagoda]

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

This is a good point, the Ukrainians too have committed killings of civilians and atrocities in this war.  

 

 

Thats what all of the "Russians" do. Ukrainians in the Red Army were busily raping and murdering across Germany after they spent their time working for the Nazis shoving Jewish women and children into gas chambers. 

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

How would a fair and just peace look like to you? What has been floated so far is that there is a ceasefire and further Ukrainian land ceded to Russia; Ukraine withdraws from the Russian territory it currently holds; Zelenski steps aside (and goes into exile?) and new elections called.

 

I have seen no more than that so I would assume that, as none of the power mongers are discussing Russian reparations or Putin or any of his regime facing repercussions, he and they will continue as they are. 

 

Will you call that a just outcome?

 

Looks like you've seen more than everybody else. 

[xylophone]

51 minutes ago, transam said:

Agree, Trump has sold out Ukraine to a murdering tyrant invader, because Trump has not got the brains to deal with anyone.................😬

[transam]

Just now, xylophone said:

Spot-on....😁

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, Purdey said:

I am absolutely certain that Russia will sign a security agreement with Ukraine. The proof?

 

Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, on December 5, 1994, providing a multilateral agreement affirming Ukraine's security and sovereignty in exchange for giving up Ukraine's nuclear stocks. What more do you need?

I sincerely hope that's sarcasm on your part, because we all know what happened after that and we all know that America's word cannot be trusted esp when Vlad is pulling the strings..

[Purdey]

8 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I sincerely hope that's sarcasm on your part, because we all know what happened after that and we all know that America's word cannot be trusted esp when Vlad is pulling the strings..

Satire - hopefully people will learn from history.

[NoDisplayName]

22 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Indeed it could have been avoided and Ukraine and Russia were far down the road of negotiating a peaceful settlement

 

That would have been Minsk and Minsk-2.

 

This little public relations attempt at Minsk-3 won't succeed.

 

But it will serve its intended purpose, becoming a talking point for posters to like, link and share.

[NoDisplayName]

24 minutes ago, Purdey said:

I am absolutely certain that Russia will sign a security agreement with Ukraine. The proof?

 

Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, on December 5, 1994, providing a multilateral agreement affirming Ukraine's security and sovereignty in exchange for giving up Ukraine's nuclear stocks. What more do you need?

 

Ethnic cleansing voids all warranties, expressed or implied.

[Cameroni]

3 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

That would have been Minsk and Minsk-2.

 

This little public relations attempt at Minsk-3 won't succeed.

 

But it will serve its intended purpose, becoming a talking point for posters to like, link and share.

 

Exactly, Minsk 1 and 2. 

 

This one will succeed though, because Russia wants peace and Ukraine desperately needs peace.

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

Trump is an idiot, as is his bit_h Vance.  If Russia really wanted to end the war it could have just retreated back to where it came from instead of trespassing.

 

If Russia stopped and got the hell of Ukraine's land the was would have ended immediately. 

 

Do you know the meaning of common sense  ? 

Do you know the meaning of reality.

 

There were talks arranged back in April 22, the whole thing could have been sorted back then. But the us & UK stopped it. Quit bitching at the wrong person.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

23 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Looks like you've seen more than everybody else. 

 

So you have no opinion on what justice would look like to you?

[dinsdale]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Briliant strategic move by Zelensky. He got plenty from this ceasefire plan. He is now seen as a peacemaker and if Putin reject, he will be viewed as a war-monger. Zelensky got back the restoration of military aid and intelligence sharing and access to satelite imagery. Now the ball at Putin's feet. His spokesman declined any comment on Russia's stance on the proposed partial ceasefire. Now a good PR image for Russia. 

The brilliance isn't on Zelensky's part. Trump put him in this corner by withdrawing intelligence and aid. Trump forced Zelensky's hand. Now he has to force Putin's hand.

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

So you have no opinion on what justice would look like to you?

There can be no justice. 

 

What I would like and what is likely are pretty far apart. 

[Cameroni]

45 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

You should lie down for a bit.

 

I'm serious. Even if it goes to plan and Ukraine and Russia sign a peace treaty it will not stop Europe rearming madly. If the past few years have shown us anything it is that European politicians are the most inept. Imagine them armed to the teeth on a collission course with Russia. Dangerous times ahead.

[connda]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

This is exactly what he did and why Ukraine has agreed in principle to a 30 day ceasefire.

And now Trump has reinstated weapons and intelligence again.

That carrot and stick approach works well with a country like Ukraine, but I doubt seriously that it's going to work with a peer nuclear power.  But it's getting easier to read Trump now that we've seen his approach to Geo-politics, and pretty much everything else as well:  Stick, carrot, Stick, carrot, STICK, carrot.....

The biggest problem with the US is that treaties aren't worth the paper they are written on.  They may be Ok for 4 years or so, then a new administration comes in and unilaterally rips up everything that was agreed to before.  Which is why Russia considers the US to be "agreement incapable."  Then this "Peace Through Strength" nonsense.  I've been reading that on signs at SAC bases since I was a kid.  What's "Peace Through Strength" brought since the 1950s.  Nothing much.  We're still on the knife's edge of nuclear war.  In the last two month the nuclear clock as probably been rolled back a 1/2 hour, but that can change in a matter of days. 

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts and replies dragging WW2, Winston Churchill and Israel into it have been removed.

[proton]

44 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

Debunked LIE she never said this

 

https://checkyourfact.com/2019/12/27/fact-check-donald-trump-mary-anne-mother-politics/

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

How would a fair and just peace look like to you? What has been floated so far is that there is a ceasefire and further Ukrainian land ceded to Russia; Ukraine withdraws from the Russian territory it currently holds; Zelenski steps aside (and goes into exile?) and new elections called.

 

I have seen no more than that so I would assume that, as none of the power mongers are discussing Russian reparations or Putin or any of his regime facing repercussions, he and they will continue as they are. 

 

Will you call that a just outcome?

 

 

Yet you you have "seen" a lot more than I have.

 

Far more progress and detail is required for opinions to be formed. 

 

[steven100]

40 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Do you know the meaning of reality.

 

There were talks arranged back in April 22, the whole thing could have been sorted back then. But the us & UK stopped it. Quit bitching at the wrong person.

 

 

I'm not bitching   

[xylophone]

12 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Debunked LIE she never said this

 

https://checkyourfact.com/2019/12/27/fact-check-donald-trump-mary-anne-mother-politics/

Ah, so I see...........when it suits the MAGA/trumpies, Fact Checkers can be relied upon, yet when it doesn't suit because they are disparaging of trump and co-, they are not to be believed.

 

Who'd have thunk it!! 

[proton]

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Ah, so I see...........when it suits the MAGA/trumpies, Fact Checkers can be relied upon, yet when it doesn't suit because they are disparaging of trump and co-, they are not to be believed.

 

Who'd have thunk it!! 

 

Are you claiming it was true?

[rough diamond]

35 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Trump forced Zelensky's hand. Now he has to force Putin's hand.

People who are forced to take actions against their will never make good bed fellows.

[Briggsy]

With Putin's puppet in the White House, this sadly is just a temporary reprieve for Ukraine.

 

Trump will gradually withdraw all support from Ukraine whilst pretending to be an honest mediator. When Russia makes no compromise, he will demand more compromises from Ukraine.

 

The only option for Ukraine is determined military support from other nations, primarily Europe, which won't happen and almost suicidal defence from Ukraine as Russia pushes it back which will.

 

How many more years of Putin do we have? And what will come next?

[candide]

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Team Ukraine 🇺🇦. 

 

Team Russia! 🙂

[frank83628]

3 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

With Putin's puppet in the White House, this sadly is just a temporary reprieve for Ukraine.

 

Trump will gradually withdraw all support from Ukraine whilst pretending to be an honest mediator. When Russia makes no compromise, he will demand more compromises from Ukraine.

 

The only option for Ukraine is determined military support from other nations, primarily Europe, which won't happen and almost suicidal defence from Ukraine as Russia pushes it back which will.

 

How many more years of Putin do we have? And what will come next?

What's come before?... he's been there 20 yrs aleready...

[nauseus]

21 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I'm serious. Even if it goes to plan and Ukraine and Russia sign a peace treaty it will not stop Europe rearming madly. If the past few years have shown us anything it is that European politicians are the most inept. Imagine them armed to the teeth on a collission course with Russia. Dangerous times ahead.

 

Dangerous times are already here. Most of the European countries have been weakening their militaries for decades. Trump warned them (via NATO) in 2019. There was very little reaction until 2022 when Ukraine was invaded. Now, Trump has given Europe another scare and it has reacted immediately (at least with words). Trump wants Europe to deal with European security more powerfully and responsibly, which is fair enough. I think Trump has other dangerous possibilities to consider.