Thailand Yet to Finalise Policy on Taxing Expats’ Overseas Income

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Robert_Smith said:

..'ere comes the inevitable Thai back-pedal..

 

Has the penny finally dropped that the well healed will just up and leave if they implement this absolutely ridiculous regulation?

 

Looking forward to the 'It was all just a big misunderstanding' article in a few weeks...

 

regards,

bob.

The Thais have zero to back-peddle. It's the foreigners who took a snippet of info and just made stuff up. 

[redwood1]

12 minutes ago, DULEROY said:

It's not time yet
The Thai Revenue Department is amending the tax law to tax worldwide income, not imported income.

 

Not any more ......

 

Trump gave the OECD the middle finger......And the worldwide OECD tax is all but dead now.....

 

Thailand will not have a world tax until long after Trump is out of office.

 

 

[jojothai]

28 minutes ago, DULEROY said:

If permitted under Double Tax Agreement (DTA).
So, there will be no double taxation for residents of Thailand.

 

No, 

Read the first part above.

Uk DTA has no provision against state or personal pension (unless government service). So there can be double tax on pensions.

The UK seem to have deliberately left out the clause in most DTA's.

The people responsible must have loved trying to screw pensioners. Just like no yearly inflation increases in state pension.

 

 

 

[kingstonkid]

6 hours ago, JoePai said:

Calm down everyone, after many years in Thailand I understand any new legislation takes many years of to and fro 

 

 

Just look at the Marijuana laws lol

 

[jojothai]

There seems to be a lot of opinion that nothing will happen.

But the banks are now starting to ask for tax ID to satisfy CRS.

ITs taken two years.

Slow, yes. In uk it took about one year.

One step at a time.

For those who think the TRD will not get their act together, then things may prove to be a but quicker than some expect.

There was a seminar in hua hin recently to discuss the tax issues with the TRD. See attached FYI.

some points to note , but still questions yet to be answered.

From the reports we see, its clear that many jurisdictions do not Understand what is started, however it may slowly become more consistent.

Many people will hope it does not happen too quickly.

Added comment. Sorry if the text is not very clear. I wil look at improving if i can later on my notebook.

 

 

[rough diamond]

1 hour ago, twizzian said:

If and when it ever comes to the knock on the door to steal our money, I never new or read about it in the news.

 

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

 

"In Thailand, the Royal Gazette (official publication) announced that foreign income earned after January 1, 2024, and remitted into Thailand, will be taxed under Section 41 of the Revenue Code, while income earned before that date is exempt from tax"

How many AN members, never mind expats in general. read the "Royal Gazette"?

[redwood1]

11 minutes ago, jojothai said:

There seems to be a lot of opinion that nothing will happen.

But the banks are now starting to ask for tax ID to satisfy CRS.

ITs taken two years.

Slow, yes. In uk it took about one year.

One step at a time.

For those who think the TRD will not get their act together, then things may prove to be a but quicker than some expect.

There was a seminar in hua hin recently to discuss the tax issues with the TRD. See attached FYI.

some points to note , but still questions yet to be answered.

From the reports we see, its clear that many jurisdictions do not Understand what is started, however it may slowly become more consistent.

Many people will hope it does not happen too quickly.

Added comment. Sorry if the text is not very clear. I wil look at improving if i can later on my notebook.

 

 

 

Who gives a rats azz what happens in Hua Hin....

 

They are all a bunch of banjo playing, red neck hicks in Hua Hin any ways...

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

 

How many AN members, never mind expats in general. read the "Royal Gazette"?

 

Do you have any idea what the Royal Gazette is ???

 

Its not a 'regular publication' like that Bangkok post - it seems your post implied that.

 

(the Ratchakitchanubeksa) is the official public journal of Thailand, where laws, regulations, royal decrees, government announcements, and legal notices are published. It serves as the authoritative source for legal enactments and official communications from the Thai government such as: 

 

- Publication of Laws – All new laws, acts, royal decrees, and amendments must be published in the Royal Gazette before they come into effect.

- Government Announcements – Official notices from ministries, departments, and government agencies.

- Royal Decrees and Proclamations – Any announcements from the monarchy, including royal appointments and honours.

- Public and Private Legal Notices – Includes company registrations, court rulings, and other legally required disclosures.

 

Thus: the mere mention that a law has been published (or not) in the Royal Gazette indicates its official legality... i.e. if The Thaiger or Bangkok post reports that a Law has been published in the Royal Gazette - this would indicate it is official. 

[dingdongrb]

...and yet another boring tax thread that I will not be reading

[gtr]

3 hours ago, pomchop said:

Listen to the age old advice from thai gals:

 

why u worry too mutt?

You mean - farang tink too mutt ?? 

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, nothing worth reporting gets written.  I find it mildly amusing.

 

 

Disagree. This is the first time one of the so-called farang experts is basically saying ' relax, just wait, nothing has been decided yet '.

[pomchop]

10 minutes ago, gtr said:

You mean - farang tink too mutt ?? 

yes tink too mutt

talk too mutt

worry too mutt

eat too mutt

drink too mutt

 

thai gals are full of good advice if only we would learn to listen

[BritScot]

7 hours ago, JoePai said:

Calm down everyone, after many years in Thailand I understand any new legislation takes many years of to and fro 

 

 

The 800,000baht didn't! And, it was the final straw when after 8 years at the same imigration office seeing the same woman said to me when I asked a question replied "it's only 800,000baht". We were back in the uk within 6 months. Best decision!!! However, still waiting on global warming. 

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

So those who'll get audited in the forthcoming years and a found liable for undeclared income will have to cough up tax + penalties.

 

All you expat pensioners, be afraid.......be very afraid.

 

Back in the real world, audits on expats with modest incomes aren't going to happen.

[Pekaer]

3 hours ago, puck2 said:

A very lovely family member of my wife called the Tax-offices in BKK and Mae Hong Son.

She asked them, if a falang has to pay taxes of the money he transfers to Thailand and what already has been taxed in Germany. She also added the question, if I had to go to the tax-office in MHS to get a PIN (number).

 

The Bangkok officer told her: no tax in Thailand because of the DTA (Double Tax Agreement), but she should contact the MHS-Office, too.

The MHS-Tax-Officer confirmed: no tax on my money, that has already been taxed in Germany. Therefore:   I should NOT ask for a PIN-number in the MHS-office, because I don't have any income here in Thailand. If only a few THB of bank interest it would woud alteady have been taxed by the Bank.

 

Did some of our AN-members receive the same answer from their tax-offices?

Are you really still paying tax in your previous living country? TBO, i also checked out from paying tax from where I receive my pension. Therefore the DTA might not be valid for me. Maybe I am naive, but I believe a. pensioners in Thailand are tax accountable, but b. the tax amount for pensioners in Thailand remains 0%. Until there are any further valid information from the Thai Tax Dept I will not do anything. Don’t trust all the surrounding information that come from third hand!

[ronnie50]

Unless there is a new law in the works and about to be unveiled to tax all residents in Thailand of more than 180 days on our global income (and there could be), as expats, at present, if we are not earning money inside Thailand, and not remitting money earned/received in the 'present tax year' or since 1 January 2024, we are not assessible for taxation. Our Thai bank accounts pay interest and then tax is deducted from that at source. If we remit money to Thailand that we've had in a foreign bank account for years (2023 and earlier), it should also not be assessible in Thailand. So this generally refers to those who live here year-round and are not working of course (retirees or similar). This seems clear to me. Let's hope no law (Act of Parliament) is proposed to tax global income.

[whitfield]

I'll be living off my mother's inheritance, meagre though it was, until I die.  How can they possibly identify which money brought in is taxable.  Time another spliff and a Leo. 

[Andycoops]

Their is and never had been any clarity with the Thai government's policies aimed at expats because individuals and individual offices make up there own mud as they fumble along in their small bubble of officialdom.

[ianwheldale]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

According to an attorney that I've spoken with there is no tax law in effect yet, and there are no taxing requirements on foreigners as of now. This law has not even passed legislation and it could possibly be a big nothing burger. 

Exactly

[ujayujay]

What Expat Tax?

[ianwheldale]

11 minutes ago, whitfield said:

I'll be living off my mother's inheritance, meagre though it was, until I die.  How can they possibly identify which money brought in is taxable.  Time another spliff and a Leo. 

I'm in the same situation. Fortunately, for some reason I brought the will and probate with me when I moved here

[baansgr]

The tax office is going to give 20,000 baht to every foreigner that hasn't wasted their time on this nonsense, those that have wasted their time by declaring their earnings will be fined 20,000 baht 😁 😁 😁 

[ujayujay]

1 hour ago, rough diamond said:

 

How many AN members, never mind expats in general. read the "Royal Gazette"?

Nobody!

[khunPer]

At the beginning of the change of the savings-taxation and demand for foreigners' taxation, we were told that details would come later.

 

Deadline is 31st March for 2024-tax year. Due to the official postings, tax-resident foreigners need to declare taxable income – i.e., anything earned after 1st January 2024 and transferred into Thailand, including ATM withdrawals on foreign cards – but can be credited already paid foreign income tax for those amounts that has already been taxed abroad and is covered by a DTA (Double Taxation Agreement). Bear in mind that DTAs are slightly different from country to country, so you need to check you own home country's DTA.

 

 

A had a meeting – actually two, see more below – with the local revenue office director, who insisted that foreign already taxed income – for example retirement pension – shall be registered in the tax return form. However, income tax covered by a DTA shall be credited. Easy to be done online with E-filing...

 

 

However, there seems to be a system-error. You can only mark "Overseas payers" if "Withholding tax" is 0.00. And if you place any amount in the "Withholding tax"-field, a Thai "Payer number for you" is needed. I've set my browser to translate the Thai characters in E-filling to English, which is why you see English in my screen dump.

 

A second meeting with Big Boss in revenue department unveiled that it was impossible to credit foreign paid tax. The staff tried with access to my E-filling profile, and even a call to "someone important" up in Bangkok didn't solve the problem. If you need to deduct foreign withheld tax in accordance with a DTA, you need to fill in a paper P.N.D.90 tax return form – which has to be the one in Thai language and you name and address in with Thai characters; perhaps your local tax department in the Aphor-office might do it for you. You need to attach proof of paid tax in English or preferably Thai language.

Now, your deductions are:

60,000 baht personal deduction

100,000 baht maximum deduction, taken as 50% of your income

190,000 baht if you are a 60 years or elder retiree

150,000 baht untaxed base

-----------

600,000 baht total; but can be little more if you are married and spouse no income, and have minor children with your spouse.

 

The below screen dump shows the deductions in my E-filing-attempt...

 

If you are 65 year or elder, and total taxable foreign transferred income is not more than around 600,000 baht, just fill in the tax return on E-filing and avoid any problems.

 

Thai income tax begins with 5% of the first taxable 150,000 baht, so even if you taxable income is a little more than the tax free base, it might be worth just paying a few baht instead of making a P.N.D.90-paper tax return form; especially if you need paid help from an accountant of tax service agent.

 

And remember that savings from before 1st January can be transferred free of tax. It might be a good idea to keep a home country tax office-statement of your savings by 31st December 2023.

 

[redwood1]

9 minutes ago, khunPer said:

At the beginning of the change of the savings-taxation and demand for foreigners' taxation, we were told that details would come later.

 

Deadline is 31st March for 2024-tax year. Due to the official postings, tax-resident foreigners need to declare taxable income – i.e., anything earned after 1st January 2024 and transferred into Thailand, including ATM withdrawals on foreign cards – but can be credited already paid foreign income tax for those amounts that has already been taxed abroad and is covered by a DTA (Double Taxation Agreement). Bear in mind that DTAs are slightly different from country to country, so you need to check you own home country's DTA.

 

 

A had a meeting – actually two, see more below – with the local revenue office director, who insisted that foreign already taxed income – for example retirement pension – shall be registered in the tax return form. However, income tax covered by a DTA shall be credited. Easy to be done online with E-filing...

 

 

However, there seems to be a system-error. You can only mark "Overseas payers" if "Withholding tax" is 0.00. And if you place any amount in the "Withholding tax"-field, a Thai "Payer number for you" is needed. I've set my browser to translate the Thai characters in E-filling to English, which is why you see English in my screen dump.

 

A second meeting with Big Boss in revenue department unveiled that it was impossible to credit foreign paid tax. The staff tried with access to my E-filling profile, and even a call to "someone important" up in Bangkok didn't solve the problem. If you need to deduct foreign withheld tax in accordance with a DTA, you need to fill in a paper P.N.D.90 tax return form – which has to be the one in Thai language and you name and address in with Thai characters; perhaps your local tax department in the Aphor-office might do it for you. You need to attach proof of paid tax in English or preferably Thai language.

Now, your deductions are:

60,000 baht personal deduction

100,000 baht maximum deduction, taken as 50% of your income

190,000 baht if you are a 60 years or elder retiree

150,000 baht untaxed base

-----------

600,000 baht total; but can be little more if you are married and spouse no income, and have minor children with your spouse.

 

The below screen dump shows the deductions in my E-filing-attempt...

 

If you are 65 year or elder, and total taxable foreign transferred income is not more than around 600,000 baht, just fill in the tax return on E-filing and avoid any problems.

 

Thai income tax begins with 5% of the first taxable 150,000 baht, so even if you taxable income is a little more than the tax free base, it might be worth just paying a few baht instead of making a P.N.D.90-paper tax return form; especially if you need paid help from an accountant of tax service agent.

 

And remember that savings from before 1st January can be transferred free of tax. It might be a good idea to keep a home country tax office-statement of your savings by 31st December 2023.

 

 

Yawn.....Boring

 

 

[Dmaxdan]

I, like many decided it would be better to be safe than sorry so I went and attempted to file a tax return. I got last year's bank statement then trotted off to what I thought was nearest my tax office only to be told I don't live in the correct area.

We were then redirected to a much smaller RD located at our district office. On arrival we were seen immediately (there was nobody else in there). I was asked 'do you work here?' to which I replied 'no'.

I was then asked 'did you remit large sums of money, for example one million baht plus?' to which I replied 'no'.

I was then asked 'well why are you here then?'

We, or should I say my wife started babbling on about 180 days and new tax laws on remitted income etc etc and all we got were bewildered looks. The lady we dealt with was adamant that I was not required to file a return nor did I need a TIN. 

So I left thinking that this is one office that clearly didn't get the memo, if there ever was a memo...

 

 

[kdugmore]

Maybe they could tell us what benefits we will receive as taxpayers. Presumably we will now pay the same price as thais in hospitals, national parks and anywhere else we have previously been gouged into paying more.

[VBF]

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Citation, please.

 

I have seen nothing that says once you've filed once, you must file forevers.

You're probably right, but if you file once they know you exist.

 

Moral of that story "Lie low and say nothing"

[grain]

12 minutes ago, kdugmore said:

Maybe they could tell us what benefits we will receive as taxpayers. Presumably we will now pay the same price as thais in hospitals, national parks and anywhere else we have previously been gouged into paying more.

That's it exactly. If we are required by law to get tax numbers and do tax returns and pay some tax because we are tax RESIDENTS, then we are no longer tourists, visitors or guests, we are residents. Therefore we should be issued with resident ID cards that distinguish us from tourists, so we get the Thai price at national parks and hospitals and all the other things that have dual pricing. 

[Enzian]

28 minutes ago, grain said:

46 minutes ago, kdugmore said:

 

That's it exactly. If we are required by law to get tax numbers and do tax returns and pay some tax because we are tax RESIDENTS, then we are no longer tourists, visitors or guests, we are residents. Therefore we should be issued with resident ID cards that distinguish us from tourists, so we get the Thai price at national parks and hospitals and all the other things that have dual pricing.

This is what I've always assumed to be the ultimate reason that the EU requires tourists to not stay in the territory for more than 90 out of any given 180 day stretch; they might have to include us in resident systems if they allowed it longer officially. A quick Google search, however, does not confirm my assumption. If anyone has better info, please chime in, and it probably applies to LOS in some way also. FWIW, I'm an American in Italy now (home is Bangkok) counting my days.