Thai Tax on UK pensions

[flexomike]

On 4/2/2025 at 1:36 PM, jwest10 said:

Been told you no need to file full stop and several times by my local Revenue Office and as per your circumstances.

Damn man you have posted this same comment about 20 times, I think everyone knows what your were told now.

 

[scorecard]

On 4/1/2025 at 7:38 PM, Humpy said:

From Press reports I understood that expats recieving income abroad were to be taxed.... yes or no ?

 

But there's ongoing discussion whether gov't based pensions from abroad are 'income'.

[Burma Bill]

Thai Tax on UK pensions

 

Oh really? During my 20 years of retirement in Thailand, I never paid one Baht in Thai tax on my 3 pensions. 

 

Now living in Cambodia for the past 5 years, not one Riel in tax on the same 3 pensions.

[jwest10]

3 hours ago, flexomike said:

Damn man you have posted this same comment about 20 times, I think everyone knows what your were told now.

 

Dam you too aND MORE and just advising and what do you do exactly!!

[Porthos]

1 hour ago, Burma Bill said:

During my 20 years of retirement in Thailand, I never paid one Baht in Thai tax on my 3 pensions. 

 

Before 2024 foreign pensions have only been taxable if they were sent to Thailand in the same tax year but no one bothered to enforce it.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/24648.html

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I don’t think it has nothing to do with immigration they are not accountants or tax experts 

You do not need to be an expert to ask for proof of compliance, conformity, validity etc etc.

It is very unlikely immigration will get involved, but cannot be dismissed out of hand, after all there has been checks in the past.

 

A Tax Clearance Certificate is a certificate issued by the Director-general of the Revenue Department or the Provincial Governor or the delegated authority to a foreigner who is departing Thailand to indicate that he has already paid taxes or that he has provided a guarantor or securities as guarantee for tax liabilities and tax payable.

https://www.legal.co.th/resources/corporate-and-tax-advisory/thailand-tax-law/what-thai-tax-clearance-certificate/

[jwest10]

On 4/2/2025 at 3:28 PM, trainman34014 said:

Seems every Tax Office in Thailand has its own idea's but mine told me no Law has been passed through Parliament and therefore nothing has changed until further notice.   I just recieved a Cheque for my Tax Refund today so all is well as far as i am concerned.

 

I have been told that we Expats have a Tax allowance of 520,000 Baht before any 'assessable Income' is applied.

 

[jwest10]

4 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

 

Yes it is either 500 or 560K but depends on personal circumstances.

 

[offset]

Is the UK Tax free allowance (£12570) classed as accesable income in Thailand

[topt]

16 minutes ago, offset said:

Is the UK Tax free allowance (£12570) classed as accesable income in Thailand

It's pretty much irrelevant to the Thai RD.

Its only relevant in that you haven't paid any tax on it so in theory you have no tax to set off against a Thai tax charge if you had one from remitting that money. 

 

[OJAS]

On 4/2/2025 at 1:36 PM, jwest10 said:

Been told you no need to file full stop and several times by my local Revenue Office and as per your circumstances.

 

What your local revenue office has told you is one thing. What others' revenue offices tell them can be different.

 

You also need to bear in mind that someone else in your revenue office might tell you that you DO need to file. And even the individual who told you that there was no need to file is capable of subsequently changing their mind, depending on which side of the bed they got out of that morning.

 

[OJAS]

On 4/11/2025 at 10:58 AM, scorecard said:

 

But there's ongoing discussion whether gov't based pensions from abroad are 'income'.

 

In what context is this "ongoing discussion" taking place? And between whom? If you are suggesting that the TRD may be seeking amendments to ALL existing DTA's aimed at ensuring that ALL pension income is deemed assessable for local taxation purposes regardless of its source, what evidence do you have for this?

[MartinL]

2 hours ago, topt said:

It's pretty much irrelevant to the Thai RD.

Its only relevant in that you haven't paid any tax on it so in theory you have no tax to set off against a Thai tax charge if you had one from remitting that money. 

 

I might well be wrong but I've always understood that it was the act of HMRC ASSESSING all ones income that was important, whether or not they then actually demanded any payment. All my UK income, including that below £12,570, has been assessed for income tax and the relevant tax paid. 

 

It'll all become clear one day ........ or not. In the meantime, I won't lose any sleep over it.

[OJAS]

On 4/11/2025 at 9:34 AM, crazykopite said:

My OAP is frozen

 

As is mine. But those claiming the new State Pension between now and 5 April 2026 will receive a weekly payment of £230.25*, which, by my reckoning, converts to around 525k THB per annum on the basis of current GBP:THB exchange rates. Since this is in excess of the various TRD allowances and exemptions which potentially total 500k THB in the case of those eligible for the State Pension, it follows that they might actually have to pay tax locally in respect of their State Pension income which was fully remitted on a calendar year basis - subject to prevailing GBP:THB exchange rates, of course.

 

Strikes me that those who are already in receipt of a frozen new (as distinct from basic) State Pension and are clamouring for this to be increased to current triple-lock rates in their cases may need to be careful of what they wish for!

 

* https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/what-youll-get

 

[jwest10]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

 

As is mine. But those claiming the new State Pension between now and 5 April 2026 will receive a weekly payment of £230.25*, which, by my reckoning, converts to around 525k THB per annum on the basis of current GBP:THB exchange rates. Since this is in excess of the various TRD allowances and exemptions which potentially total 500k THB in the case of those eligible for the State Pension, it follows that they might actually have to pay tax locally in respect of their State Pension income which was fully remitted on a calendar year basis - subject to prevailing GBP:THB exchange rates, of course.

 

Strikes me that those who are already in receipt of a frozen new (as distinct from basic) State Pension and are clamouring for this to be increased to current triple-lock rates in their cases may need to be careful of what they wish for!

 

* https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/what-youll-get

 

Yes, but stated this often those lucky to receive so many increases  over several decades now know how we feel somewhat us the 550K plus frozen pensioners feel!!!

[jwest10]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

What your local revenue office has told you is one thing. What others' revenue offices tell them can be different.

 

You also need to bear in mind that someone else in your revenue office might tell you that you DO need to file. And even the individual who told you that there was no need to file is capable of subsequently changing their mind, depending on which side of the bed they got out of that morning.

 

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[topt]

2 hours ago, MartinL said:

I might well be wrong but I've always understood that it was the act of HMRC ASSESSING all ones income that was important,

Not to the Thai RD which is what's relevant to what is being discussed.

[rough diamond]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

But those claiming the new State Pension between now and 5 April 2026 will receive a weekly payment of £230.25*, which, by my reckoning, converts to around 525k THB per annum on the basis of current GBP:THB exchange rates. Since this is in excess of the various TRD allowances and exemptions which potentially total 500k THB in the case of those eligible for the State Pension, it follows that they might actually have to pay tax locally in respect of their State Pension income which was fully remitted on a calendar year basis - subject to prevailing GBP:THB exchange rates, of course.

If they are legally claiming the full pension whilst here in Thailand they will have commitments in the UK and probably not staying over 180 days per year so no tax in Thailand for them!

[oldcpu]

8 hours ago, MartinL said:

I might well be wrong but I've always understood that it was the act of HMRC ASSESSING all ones income that was important, whether or not they then actually demanded any payment. All my UK income, including that below £12,570, has been assessed for income tax and the relevant tax paid. 

 

It'll all become clear one day ........ or not. In the meantime, I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

Further, in the mean time, we have Royal Decree 18 which clearly states that some foreign income is tax exempt in accordance with some agreements on Double Taxation (DTAs). 

 

The interpretation here by many is by saying 'tax exempt' in that Royal Decree it also means exempt for Thailand tax calculation purposes, which basically equates to not being assessable income for Thailand. 

 

Of course this also depends on the wording of the relevant DTAs as to whether the foreign income is tax exempt in Thailand.  Many DTAs do not make the foreign income tax exempt.

[Presnock]

On 4/11/2025 at 9:07 AM, Presnock said:

only if you meet the NECESSARY criteria do you have to get a tax ID at all and/or file for earned income from overseas, as has been explained numerous times here

 

On 4/11/2025 at 9:34 AM, crazykopite said:

My OAP is frozen it’s my military pension that I depend on plus that is taxed in the UK so I can go to bed and have a good nights sleep 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/index-html is the English language of the revenue department, has copies of the double taxation agreements between countries and thailand plus taxation reegulations, exemptions etc.  good luck 

[henryford1958]

How did you record the UK tax paid under the dual tax arrangements. As i understand it the standard tax form does not provide for an entry showing UK tax paid.?

[JimGant]

On 4/23/2025 at 8:43 AM, henryford1958 said:

How did you record the UK tax paid under the dual tax arrangements. As i understand it the standard tax form does not provide for an entry showing UK tax paid.?

 

Do a tax return with manufactured numbers. First, do a straight forward tax return, including UK remitted assessable income, noting total Thai taxes due. Then, net out from Thai taxes due the UK taxes that Thailand allows as an offsetting credit. Then, with your spreadsheet, find out what manufactured number for UK remitted assessable income, when plugged in, has a tax return with a tax owed that represents the netted tax credit for UK taxes.

 

You may find that "zero" is the magic number, meaning the UK taxes on that remitted income exceeds the Thai taxes on that exact same income. Thus, you just leave the income line for remitted foreign income blank. Or, if Thai income tax exceeds UK income tax on that same amount, some manufactured positive number will be placed on that line to arrive at the correct Thai tax, netted for the UK tax credit.

 

Anyway, you're completely kosher here (except, maybe, for mechanics), as total Thai tax due incorporates the credit for UK taxes -- assuming the Thai instructions allow for a UK tax credit. Thus, you've not short changed Thailand one satang -- and, of course, you'd keep good notes on this procedure, in the unlikely event of an audit.

 

And, of course, this is not a procedure you'd want to do face to face with your local TRD official.... Nope, electronic filing only, unless you can do a manual return yourself, and drop in the mailbox at your local TRD -- or maybe even mail it in, if allowed (don't believe it is.....).

[OJAS]

On 4/23/2025 at 8:43 AM, henryford1958 said:

How did you record the UK tax paid under the dual tax arrangements. As i understand it the standard tax form does not provide for an entry showing UK tax paid.?

 

Are you referring specifically to the likes of UK government occupational pensions (as distinct from the State Pension) which are solely taxable in the UK by HMRC under the UK/Thailand DTA - and are, hence, not deemed to be assessable income for TRD taxation purposes? If so, then what purpose would be served by being upfront about any remitted non-assessable income in TRD returns? Why would the TRD need to know about such income in any case?

 

That said, if one were to receive a request out of the blue from the TRD for details of any non-assessable income remitted within their previous tax year (for whatever reason), it would probably not be a good idea to decline providing them with the necessary info. But I'm still waiting (with bated breath!) for any such request (principally in relation to my UK government occupational pension in my case in practice) to turn up following the 2024 tax return I filed with them in January!

 

[treetops]

23 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Are you referring specifically to the likes of UK government occupational pensions (as distinct from the State Pension) which are solely taxable in the UK by HMRC under the UK/Thailand DTA - and are, hence, not deemed to be assessable income for TRD taxation purposes? If so, then what purpose would be served by being upfront about any remitted non-assessable income in TRD returns? Why would the TRD need to know about such income in any case?

 

That said, if one were to receive a request out of the blue from the TRD for details of any non-assessable income remitted within their previous tax year (for whatever reason), it would probably not be a good idea to decline providing them with the necessary info. But I'm still waiting (with bated breath!) for any such request (principally in relation to my UK government occupational pension in my case in practice) to turn up following the 2024 tax return I filed with them in January!

 

I'm pretty sure he's asking how to take a credit for UK tax paid against any potential Thai tax bill.  This can't be done using the current system and the post above yours presents a fudge or workaround for anyone determined to get on the system.

 

Personally my UK tax bill outweighs any potential Thai tax bill so nothing should be due to the TRD, so even more reason to keep a low profile and not volunteer any information unless asked.