8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Did you miss the importance of retaining command and control of their stockpiled nuclear capabilities? Hand over the keys to the European nuclear "football" to crazies from France and the UK?

 

If the US downsizes their European "boots on the ground", does that equate with a proportional reduction on their wholly-owned European nuclear assets?

 

Not sure what you're saying here but it sounds like you think Europe is too crazy to be entrusted with nuclear weapon? No way Europe is any crazier than any other country which has nuclear weapons.

8 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Actually America is one of the more diverse places racially and ethnically.

Yes, that's something you MAGA guys are SO proud of and mention every opportunity you get. The "browning" of the US goes on and Whites will eventually be a minority, and the White MAGA guys on this forum welcome it. Good on you!

2 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

So what happens to the US grunts after closure of European bases？

Do they face mass retrenchment？

That sort of thing already happened in the past(after the Gulf War 1991).

And it happened on US soil.

 

 

 

Well, someone has to staff all the thousands of revitalised and brand new factories that Trump's tariff-fueled restoration of American manufacturing is going to create. Work places need workers, no?

17 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Oh, goody.

Talking points.

What next...........links to articles with "Ukrainian officials say...."?

You can label what I've said how you like. What you apparently can't do, is offer counter arguments based on reasoning and evidence. You've got nothing.

At one time they were termed US forward bases there to protect the USA.

It is about time all US forces were removed from Europe and their bases closed.

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You can label what I've said how you like. What you apparently can't do, is offer counter arguments based on reasoning and evidence. You've got nothing.

 

Let's take the popular indictments of Russian and Chinese alleged "hackers" that is announced in loud, flashy pressers when Washington needs a win.

 

It gets written up as though it were fact, that they're guilty, but we can't persecute because they're outside the country.

 

What happens in the occasional cases when the malign actors actually show up for court?

 

Delays, refusals to allow discovery, no evidence is provided on "national security" grounds.  Then more delays, and the cases are eventually dropped.  Quietly.  Bigly, bigly quietly.

 

It's all fluff.

14 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

Not sure what you're saying here but it sounds like you think Europe is too crazy to be entrusted with nuclear weapon? No way Europe is any crazier than any other country which has nuclear weapons.

 

The Trump mantra is that the European's are untrustworthy. It's been part of his recent claims to the decades-long "back stabbing" of America by haters of America and Americans. Yes, I know he's talking about trade (at the moment).

 

The VP has been far more openly critical about how European society is fomenting terrorism and how the continent of Europe is a weak ally.

 

Do you think the Iranians would go crazy if they gained entry to the nuclear brotherhood?

8 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Let's take the popular indictments of Russian and Chinese alleged "hackers" that is announced in loud, flashy pressers when Washington needs a win.

 

It gets written up as though it were fact, that they're guilty, but we can't persecute because they're outside the country.

 

What happens in the occasional cases when the malign actors actually show up for court?

 

Delays, refusals to allow discovery, no evidence is provided on "national security" grounds.  Then more delays, and the cases are eventually dropped.  Quietly.  Bigly, bigly quietly.

 

It's all fluff.

Got some links you can share?

12 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

At one time they were termed US forward bases there to protect the USA.

It is about time all US forces were removed from Europe and their bases closed.

...an' take their pesky goldarned nukes with 'em!

16 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

It’s time the people of Europe built their own armies for defense. 

 

They have.  It was the USA that had insisted that  the Europeans not have large militaries. At the time, the USA had a point, because of the European predisposition to war. The  change should  be phased in and not sudden.

 

With the  reduction in US military. the EU and UK  should also be free to set their foreign policy that is in their best interest and  does not incorporate USA's political goals. The primary purpose of the USA's military presence was to project the USA power and to have a say in foreign relations and trade. As the USA pulls back, it must also accept that it will no longer have the ability to project its interests into the affairs of other nations, Nor can the USA expect  the EU to hand over military bases when the USA  needs them.

The Europeans and UK can move towards  trade in Euro and not USD. They can also turn their focus to resource powerhouse Canada  to supply their energy needs, instead of  Canada selling oil to the USA and  EU purchasing US LNG. Once the USA closes its door to the EU it must accept its reduced ability to impose its will on others.

3 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

They have.  It was the USA that had insisted that  the Europeans not have large militaries. At the time, the USA had a point, because of the European predisposition to war. The  change should  be phased in and not sudden.

 

With the  reduction in US military. the EU and UK  should also be free to set their foreign policy that is in their best interest and  does not incorporate USA's political goals. The primary purpose of the USA's military presence was to project the USA power and to have a say in foreign relations and trade. As the USA pulls back, it must also accept that it will no longer have the ability to project its interests into the affairs of other nations, Nor can the USA expect  the EU to hand over military bases when the USA  needs them.

The Europeans and UK can move towards  trade in Euro and not USD. They can also turn their focus to resource powerhouse Canada  to supply their energy needs, instead of  Canada selling oil to the USA and  EU purchasing US LNG. Once the USA closes its door to the EU it must accept its reduced ability to impose its will on others.

Wonderful. When do we start? After the EU breaks up.? That's probably the goal.

12 hours ago, stevenl said:

Who is complaining?

US kept troops in Europe to wield influence. According to the US it was in their strategic interest to keep the troops there.

 

I got the impression Europe was complaining.  Am I wrong?

This is an accurate assessment of Europe. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

With the  reduction in US military. the EU and UK  should also be free to set their foreign policy that is in their best interest and  does not incorporate USA's political goals. The primary purpose of the USA's military presence was to project the USA power and to have a say in foreign relations and trade. As the USA pulls back, it must also accept that it will no longer have the ability to project its interests into the affairs of other nations, Nor can the USA expect  the EU to hand over military bases when the USA  needs them.

 

Europe is irrelevant on the world stage. 

1 hour ago, TedG said:

Europe is irrelevant on the world stage. 

 

And you expect to be taken seriously?

If it is irrelevant, why then is the USA so afraid of the EU not using USD for trade and financial services?

9 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Wonderful. When do we start? After the EU breaks up.? That's probably the goal.

 

The EU will not break up. It will adapt. That's a trait the USA has been unable to  master since its successive debacles in Vietnam.

9 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

And you expect to be taken seriously?

If it is irrelevant, why then is the USA so afraid of the EU not using USD for trade and financial services?

I'm sorry that you can't handle the truth.  Europe is irrelevant. 

 

Europe is finished

It’s time to mourn the demise of old Europe. The rot is too far gone, the decline too pronounced, the welfarism, decadence, pacifism and self-hatred too ingrained, the doom-loop unstoppable.

 

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2024/02/05/europe-is-finished/

 

How Europe Made Itself Irrelevant

 

https://www.compactmag.com/article/how-europe-made-itself-irrelevant/

6 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The EU will not break up. It will adapt. That's a trait the USA has been unable to  master since its successive debacles in Vietnam.

 

Europe is failing. 

 

Get your house in order, Europe — or face ‘ongoing decline,’ economists warn

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/02/europes-economy-faces-the-danger-of-ongoing-decline-economists-say.html

12 hours ago, Bannoi said:

At one time they were termed US forward bases there to protect the USA.

It is about time all US forces were removed from Europe and their bases closed.

Hummm……Russia on the move a raping killing and a looting their neighbors……the most traitorous unamerican president in our history who spouts kremlin propaganda at every opportunity……Americas finances in a self inflicted mess by said president…….well im guessing who would be ecstatic over this heres a clue it certainly won’t be any of the nato members…..

4 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

 

I got the impression Europe was complaining.  Am I wrong?

"500M Europeans Are Begging 300M Americans for Protection from 140M Russians Who Have Been Unable to Overcome 50M Ukrainians for Three Years"

 

 

3 minutes ago, Tug said:

Hummm……Russia on the move a raping killing and a looting their neighbors……the most traitorous unamerican president in our history who spouts kremlin propaganda at every opportunity……Americas finances in a self inflicted mess by said president…….well im guessing who would be ecstatic over this heres a clue it certainly won’t be any of the nato members…..

 

Why is this a US problem?  Europe should deal with it.  But, they can't. 

1 minute ago, TedG said:

 

Why is this a US problem?  Europe should deal with it.  But, they can't. 

Simply because we don’t want ww3 because that’s excactly what Europe will be forced into to check Russian aggression same as last time,I’d like to say different aggressor but that would be untrue on account of Russia and Germany dividing Poland after their joint invasion of the late 30s….i digress we are needed there as a check to Russian aggression pure and simple especially now.

Just now, Tug said:

Simply because we don’t want ww3 because that’s excactly what Europe will be forced into to check Russian aggression same as last time,I’d like to say different aggressor but that would be untrue on account of Russia and Germany dividing Poland after their joint invasion of the late 30s….i digress we are needed there as a check to Russian aggression pure and simple especially now.

 

Russia is a paper Tiger.    They can't handle Ukraine at this point.   The arrogance Europeans need to handle Russia. 

1 minute ago, TedG said:

 

Russia is a paper Tiger.    They can't handle Ukraine at this point.   The arrogance Europeans need to handle Russia. 

Trump pulling us out of Europe and humping putins leg like an amorous puppy dog is not good there’s no way to paint that as a positive (if you are lucid) unfortunately for the European democracys they depend on us weapon systems what happens if Putins asset trump decides not to support European democracy?they at this time need our support.

Just now, Tug said:

Trump pulling us out of Europe and humping putins leg like an amorous puppy dog is not good there’s no way to paint that as a positive (if you are lucid) unfortunately for the European democracys they depend on us weapon systems what happens if Putins asset trump decides not to support European democracy?they at this time need our support.

 

Why should a soldier from the USA be willing to die for Europe when they refuse to fund their own defense?  

On 4/11/2025 at 10:39 PM, placeholder said:

Given that, under Trump, they might end up fighting for Putin, maybe it's best that they do leave.

 

And, you know....

 

The way things are quickly going.....

 

I think this might be the very last time, this year, that we can once, again, read the important selections from...

D.H. Lawrence.....

 

Lady Chatterley's Lover....

 

 

 

Yes, as Chicken Little said....

 

The sky is falling.....

 

 

Given the success the Americans have withdrawing their troops from anywhere, taking Vietnam or Afghanistan for example to name a couple, there is more chance of a fire drill in a nursery working

7 hours ago, TedG said:

 

Why should a soldier from the USA be willing to die for Europe when they refuse to fund their own defense?  

Why should 642 British soldiers have died for the USA in Afghanistan or the 2000 that were seriously wounded

12 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

 

I got the impression Europe was complaining.  Am I wrong?

Anything European here?

 

"However, reducing American forces in Europe would be a disastrous signal to Moscow, warns General Chris Cavoli, the commander of NATO forces in Europe.

 

In addition, The influential House Armed Services Committee, led by Chairman Michael Rogers, strongly opposes Trump's plans."

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The EU will not break up. It will adapt. That's a trait the USA has been unable to  master since its successive debacles in Vietnam.

Yeah we are in such bad shape compared to Europe LOL