Why haven't you learned Thai even after several years as an expat in Thailand?

[StandardIssue]

9 minutes ago, Airalee said:

In other words….

 

You can’t speak Thai, but you like to denigrate those who might (or might not be) at a lower level than yourself.

Perhaps I have offended. If so I apologize. In the other thread there were quite a few punters that seemed to be quite offended about being labeled "Farang". I maintain that if a person lives in a foreign country that it takes WORK to gain respect of it's citizens.. Expats are guests in Thailand but it seems many expats have bad experiences here because they are arrogant and think Thais should adjust to them when in reality they should WORK and TAKE ACTION to learn the culture, speak the language and show respect to their hosts. I have personally had a pretty good experience as an expat in Thailand. It takes tolerance and a lot of patience and understanding. Something quite a few punters on this board seem to lack. You want a good living experience in LOS? Take some time to learn the culture and language. Simple.

[atpeace]

25 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

A very simple formula.

 

http://www.thai-language.com/ref/tone-rules

Just perused the link.  Amazed you found that simple.  I do think that learning how to read and write might be a better option while at the same time learning how to speak. A couple friends have done this and had success.  

[norsurin]

6 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

You didn't get it did you. You said that your wife 'learned' you, where it should have been 'taught'. She did the teaching, you did the learning. OK?

Sorry..i misunderstood u.. anyway not important.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Just perused the link.  Amazed you found that simple.  I do think that learning how to read and write might be a better option while at the same time learning how to speak. A couple friends have done this and had success.  

Google translate works fine for reading Thai.   They even have apps that will translate speech, and you could easily express whatever, enough to get by.   

 

I've yet needed to write Thai, in any situation, and can read anything with G translate.

 

 

[Krillin]

One would be hard-pressed to think of a language as difficult for a Western person to learn as Thai. 

1) It's a tonal language.

2) There is no universally standardized way of even writing the alphabet in English so that a foreigner can try to pronounce it.

3) Tonal languages use both cerebral hemispheres; non-tonal languages only use one. So it's technically easier for everyone the world over to learn non-tonal languages than tonal languages.

4) Dialectical variations across the kingdom.

5) Thai media probably does not portray Westerners trying to speak Thai as often as it ought. Because of that, the Thai ear is not accustomed to what that particular train-wreck sounds like and so can't easily understand what's being said when they encounter a farang trying to speak it in the wild.

6) Like it or not, Thai is not an international language like Mandarin. There aren't many university courses that offer it. And because of that there isn't as much global effort put into providing Thai instructional materials as there is for other languages. Thai is still very much a niche language on the global stage.

7) Thai learning apps are not as good as the apps for other languages.

8 ) Not only is Thai a tonal language, but its list of vowels and consanants is different from that of many other languages. Those who try to learn Thai must learn how to, effectively, make sounds they've never made before. 

 

And all of the effort that that demands is just to learn the language of one single kindgom that, despite its other virtues, still does not amount to much on the global stage in comparison to some of its richer, older neighbords; a kingdom that, wrongly, has an unfortunate international reputation as a throw-away locale for tourists to visit, abuse, and then discard. 

 

Learning Thai takes a lot of effort and a lot of time for what amounts to relatively little pay-off. It's unfortunate, but true. I am presently on my third attempt to learn basic Thai. If even after this, nobody can understand what I'm trying to say, I will give up. Many other foreigners would give up after the first go. Perhaps the most difficult pill to swallow -- a pill I don't anticipate being swallowed any time soon -- is that if Thailand really, really wants to become more culturally accessible, there will need to be a nationwide movement away from the Thai language and toward either Mandarin or at least English. Thai will never be a global language, even though the Thai people really ought to be globally respected and listened to.

 

 

[Airalee]

3 minutes ago, StandardIssue said:

Perhaps I have offended. If so I apologize. In the other thread there were quite a few punters that seemed to be quite offended about being labeled "Farang". I maintain that if a person lives in a foreign country that it takes WORK to gain respect of it's citizens.. Expats are guests in Thailand but it seems many expats have bad experiences here because they are arrogant and think Thais should adjust to them when in reality they should WORK and TAKE ACTION to learn the culture, speak the language and show respect to their hosts. I have personally had a pretty good experience as an expat in Thailand. It takes tolerance and a lot of patience and understanding. Something quite a few punters on this board seem to lack. You want a good living experience in LOS? Take some time to learn the culture and language. Simple.

“Farang”, as I was taught by my educated Thai friends, is generally used by Thais with lower education levels.  Educated Thais (having a degree that isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on does not necessarily mean educated) will use the proper word for foreigner.

 

One shouldn’t need to learn every nuance about Thai culture and speak the language fluently to “gain respect”.

 

Farang is no different than “jek” or “kek”…..and those certainly aren’t terms of endearment.

 

In the USA, if an immigrant isn’t familiar with all our social mores and language, we don’t call them “chinks”, “slopes”, “gooks” or any other derogatory word until we deign them worthy of our respect.

[norsurin]

4 minutes ago, Krillin said:

One would be hard-pressed to think of a language as difficult for a Western person to learn as Thai. 

1) It's a tonal language.

2) There is no universally standardized way of even writing the alphabet in English so that a foreigner can try to pronounce it.

3) Tonal languages use both cerebral hemispheres; non-tonal languages only use one. So it's technically easier for everyone the world over to learn non-tonal languages than tonal languages.

4) Dialectical variations across the kingdom.

5) Thai media probably does not portray Westerners trying to speak Thai as often as it ought. Because of that, the Thai ear is not accustomed to what that particular train-wreck sounds like and so can't easily understand what's being said when they encounter a farang trying to speak it in the wild.

6) Like it or not, Thai is not an international language like Mandarin. There aren't many university courses that offer it. And because of that there isn't as much global effort put into providing Thai instructional materials as there is for other languages. Thai is still very much a niche language on the global stage.

7) Thai learning apps are not as good as the apps for other languages.

8 ) Not only is Thai a tonal language, but its list of vowels and consanants is different from that of many other languages. Those who try to learn Thai must learn how to, effectively, make sounds they've never made before. 

 

And all of the effort that that demands is just to learn the language of one single kindgom that, despite its other virtues, still does not amount to much on the global stage in comparison to some of its richer, older neighbords; a kingdom that, wrongly, has an unfortunate international reputation as a throw-away locale for tourists to visit, abuse, and then discard. 

 

Learning Thai takes a lot of effort and a lot of time for what amounts to relatively little pay-off. It's unfortunate, but true. I am presently on my third attempt to learn basic Thai. If even after this, nobody can understand what I'm trying to say, I will give up. Many other foreigners would give up after the first go. Perhaps the most difficult pill to swallow -- a pill I don't anticipate being swallowed any time soon -- is that if Thailand really, really wants to become more culturally accessible, there will need to be a nationwide movement away from the Thai language and toward either Mandarin or at least English. Thai will never be a global language, even though the Thai people really ought to be globally respected and listened to.

 

 

I lived with my exwife and her family for years.That helped alot even it took long time to learn it.

Sitting and listen to people speak thai all the time is not for everybody because some live in tourist areas where english is the daily langue.

[Airalee]

15 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Just perused the link.  Amazed you found that simple.  I do think that learning how to read and write might be a better option while at the same time learning how to speak. A couple friends have done this and had success.  

Learning to read was essential for me because it is not uncommon for Thais to mispronounce their own language to the point where I have to ask them to write it down for clarification.

[Krillin]

Just now, norsurin said:

I lived with my exwife and her family for years.That helped alot even it took long time to learn it.

Sitting and listen to people speak thai all the time is not for everybody because some live in tourist areas where english is the daily langue.

Just out of curiosity, why did she leave?

[norsurin]

Just now, Krillin said:

Just out of curiosity, why did she leave?

We moved to my country with our 2 kids 18 years ago.After 7 years here we divorced.Totally married 11 years.

[StandardIssue]

10 minutes ago, Airalee said:

“Farang”, as I was taught by my educated Thai friends, is generally used by Thais with lower education levels.  Educated Thais (having a degree that isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on does not necessarily mean educated) will use the proper word for foreigner.

 

One shouldn’t need to learn every nuance about Thai culture and speak the language fluently to “gain respect”.

 

Farang is no different than “jek” or “kek”…..and those certainly aren’t terms of endearment.

 

In the USA, if an immigrant isn’t familiar with all our social mores and language, we don’t call them “chinks”, “slopes”, “gooks” or any other derogatory word until we deign them worthy of our respect.

 

That being said, one has to live within the situation at hand. Thais are gonna talk about you and refer to you as a Farang. ( they do it right in front of you sometimes) If someone chooses to live in Thaland than, again, it's gonna take a lot of patience and tolerance along with making some effort to learn the culture and some of the language to have the best experience IMHO  I'm not fluent and cannot read or write but I do OK in simple conversation and have made an attempt to blend in and understand to operate within the culture. Generally speaking my experience has been pretty good. I've been able to live cheap in some nice places and enjoy life in Thailand.

[atpeace]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Google translate works fine for reading Thai.   They even have apps that will translate speech, and you could easily express whatever, enough to get by.   

 

I've yet needed to write Thai, in any situation, and can read anything with G translate.

 

 

That is kind of where I'm at.  It works and is easy but at times I wish I could have a conversation with Thais and find it mildly uncomfortable at Thai only events.  Been here a long time and some Thais I'm sure wonder why I don't speak more Thai.  Hell, some come out and ask me directly.  They want to talk but after 5 minutes of stumbling conversation I'm looking for a means to escape gracefully:) 

[zmisha]

Don't learn Thai. Think about how bar girls with their perfect English need a husband too!

[proton]

After over 30 years they still don't always understand the member numbers I give them at check outs, 7/11 have a key pad so I don't need to tell them. Often have to repeat 2 or three times, never gives me the encouragement to go further than a few phrases. Soon translation apps will be far better anyway.

[MalcolmB]

57 minutes ago, atpeace said:

I do think that learning how to read and write might be a better option while at the same time learning how to speak.

Of course you do. 

[MalcolmB]

46 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Farang”, as I was taught by my educated Thai friends, is generally used by Thais with lower education levels.  Educated Thais (having a degree that isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on does not necessarily mean educated) will use the proper word for foreigner.

Farang used daily in print news and television 

 

 

46 minutes ago, Airalee said:

 

Farang is no different than “jek” or “kek”…..and those certainly aren’t terms of endearment.

No it isn’t, and are not used in print news or TV 

[Airalee]

32 minutes ago, StandardIssue said:

 

That being said, one has to live within the situation at hand. Thais are gonna talk about you and refer to you as a Farang. ( they do it right in front of you sometimes) If someone chooses to live in Thaland than, again, it's gonna take a lot of patience and tolerance along with making some effort to learn the culture and some of the language to have the best experience IMHO  I'm not fluent and cannot read or write but I do OK in simple conversation and have made an attempt to blend in and understand to operate within the culture. Generally speaking my experience has been pretty good. I've been able to live cheap in some nice places and enjoy life in Thailand.

Of course one has to “live with the situation at hand” and my 14 years here have been quite pleasant.  An uneducated bumpkin using the word Farang doesn’t bother me because I understand that the educational system here is just about as bad as it gets and with an average IQ 10 points lower than western countries, I feel that it’s ok to cut them some slack.   Perhaps Thais could learn to do the same….or not.  Up to them.

 

Personally, I don’t tell Thais that I speak Thai.  And when I call them out in Thai if they speak disrespectfully (assuming I am none the wiser), their loss of face is quite humorous.  

[MalcolmB]

53 minutes ago, Krillin said:

2) There is no universally standardized way of even writing the alphabet in English so that a foreigner can try to pronounce it.

Which is why you learn Thai script.

it is easy, four year olds can do it.

And when you do you will see that unlike English it is usually pronounced as it is written.

[MalcolmB]

55 minutes ago, Krillin said:

Learning Thai takes a lot of effort and a lot of time for what amounts to relatively little pay-off.

Unless you live in Thailand where everyone speaks it.

A long list of excuses.

[MalcolmB]

56 minutes ago, Krillin said:

Not only is Thai a tonal language, but its list of vowels and consanants is different from that of many other languages. Those who try to learn Thai must learn how to, effectively, make sounds they've never made before. 

Only ง and maybe ป for the consonants.

And a few vowels, but again, four year olds master it in about a week. 
 

Watch this and you will be good to go in 5 minutes 

 

 

[zyphodb]

56 minutes ago, norsurin said:

I lived with my exwife and her family for years.That helped alot even it took long time to learn it.

Sitting and listen to people speak thai all the time is not for everybody because some live in tourist areas where english is the daily langue.

 

Everyone around me speaks Isaan/Lao, so my pidgin is as much Lao as Thai, just for added confusion...

[ukrules]

Why would I? If they don't speak English I don't care to speak to them.

[norsurin]

9 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

 

Everyone around me speaks Isaan/Lao, so my pidgin is as much Lao as Thai, just for added confusion...

I speak some Lao..its different then thai even many thinks it almost the same.

I speak Khmer too Enough to sit and talk but falling out when they speak Khmer about technical things.

Some words in Khmer is the same in thai but anyway wery different.

My exwife and her family speak thai..lao and khmer in daily basis.Depends who they talk with.

[bubblegum]

Why should I when everybody around me speaks Kmer.

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

Why should I when everybody around me speaks Kmer.

 

Seems you came up short on understanding the Ops point.

 

Can we assume you speak Khmer then ?

 

 

[save the frogs]

14 hours ago, StandardIssue said:

Perhaps I have offended. If so I apologize. In the other thread there were quite a few punters that seemed to be quite offended about being labeled "Farang". I maintain that if a person lives in a foreign country that it takes WORK to gain respect of it's citizens.. Expats are guests in Thailand but it seems many expats have bad experiences here because they are arrogant and think Thais should adjust to them when in reality they should WORK and TAKE ACTION to learn the culture, speak the language and show respect to their hosts. I have personally had a pretty good experience as an expat in Thailand. It takes tolerance and a lot of patience and understanding. Something quite a few punters on this board seem to lack. You want a good living experience in LOS? Take some time to learn the culture and language. Simple.

 

Yeah, but that's mostly "polite society" bs.

On the surface, you might get a pat on the back for integrating and learning the language, but nobody cares.

Apart from in-laws maybe if you're married ... then it might be important.

 

My landlord speaks English very well. Even in English, last time I was talking to her when I ran into her, I got the impression I was bothering her. I won't be speaking to her much, even though her English is good. People are busy with their lives, trying to make money. Maybe she doesn't like me that much. Most people don't care, apart from if you're putting food on their table, eating in their restaurants. All you need to do is smile and be polite and not be arrogant. 

 

Most locals who don't speak any English have no education. So most of the conversation in Thai will be gossip or mundane stuff. The most interesting Thais are the educated or wordly ones who have learned some English and maybe even traveled abroad. And the "bar girls", because they been around. 

 

 

[liddelljohn]

5 tones and up to 11 Classifiers   makes it very confusing     I can converse in Thai  but  its not at all easy   ,, women are easy to talk with  but Thai men often deliberately dont want to understand ,, even my thai wife has noticed this  when I talk with local in Thai ,, she says the men are lazy and ignorant..Sure my accent is not so great ..   Then there are all the different dialects   ....and the killer is that many Thais have nothing interesting to speak about anyway    even the so called intellectuals .

[Will B Good]

Profoundly deaf in left ear (covid), 35dB down in the right (heavy industry) and horrendous tinnitus in both.......struggle to understand English let alone Thai.

[blaze master]

5 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

Pretty retarded dropping out of school age 11 

 

I mean it is Thailand.

[jerrymahoney]

My Thai wife likes to speak English. Sometimes, when I say something that she says she doesn't understand, I explain it to her in Thai.