Russia Dismisses Trump’s Ukraine Peace Plan Offers 3 Day Ceasefire

[BLMFem]

5 hours ago, FlorC said:

It was under Obama in 2014 that the west staged a coup.

You know Sorros and Nuland.

Just one of the many links :

Obama and Soros—Nazis in Ukraine 2014—U.S. in 2017? (schillerinstitute.com)

 

Putin had no choice.

Now he holds all the cards , like Trump would say.

 

[BLMFem]

5 hours ago, frank83628 said:

You will never accept the your USA pushed this war.

Bury you head in the sand and just call everyone Putin puppet

Speaking for myself I don't call everyone a Putin puppet, but I'm happy to label you one.

[ChicagoExpat]

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Yes Crimea was under Obama and it was basically a peaceful handover so there was no conflict there for Trump to end in his 1st term.

As with EVERYTHING, you are totally unaware of how Crimea was "peacefully handed" over.  It was an invasion by, as Putin called it, his "little green men" -- i.e. soldiers with no insignia (which is a war crime).  There was nothing "peaceful" about it.  If a bunch of armed thugs surprises you in your house so completely, you don't have time to react, is the fact that they have thrown you out of your house a "peaceful takeover"?

[BLMFem]

6 hours ago, connda said:

The spokespersons for Russia, Dmitry Peskov, Maria Zakharova, Sergey Lavrov, Sergei Shoigu among others have repeated Russian's conditions for an end of the conflict succinctly and consistently.  Those conditions are:

Russia has also been very up-front that if the US and Ukraine want to reject the conditions, Russia (who has the military advantage on the battlefield regardless of the propaganda by Western media who say the Russia troops are fighting with shovels and sticks) will just continue to do what it's been doing and continue the Special Military Operation and continue moving into Western Ukraine and taking more territory.  It's pretty simple.  Ukraine could have accepted the conditions in April 2022 and only have given up Crimea and agreed to Donesk as an autonomous state.  Now the conditions are listed above.  In other year they can probably add Odessa, historic Novorossiya, and buffer zones such as Sumy into the terms of an unconditional surrender of Ukraine.  The conditions will never become better if Ukraine continues the conflict with a losing hand. And there is not going to be a "ceasefire."  Russia saw that before during the Minsk accord:  If the conflict stops then Ukraine uses the opportunity to rearm, regroup, reentrench, and recover - Russia isn't going to allow that to happen, they'll just continue to press their military advantage.  That's just reality regardless of how much the US, EU, UK, and Ukraine what to deny it.

Yes, their demand is that they'd be rewarded for their brutal invasion with total capitulation.

Only one answer can be given: <deleted> the <deleted> off!

[FlorC]

9 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

 

Well you should know . But they don't seem to help you much !

[BLMFem]

4 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

This is not a "belief". 

 

This is the reality of the world. Just as the USA gets to determine how other sovereign nations conduct themselves, witness Panama being invaded when they sold secrets to Cuba, if those sovereign nations are in the US sphere of influence, so does Russia get to determine how other sovereign nations conduct themselves, if they are in the Russian sphere of inluence.

 

And Ukraine conducted herself abominably, jumped into bed with hansum man America and then did a gangbang with Europe on top, when its boyfriend Russia was paying her energy bills. Cheating is an ugly betrayal, and Ukraine now pays the price.

So Ukraine, a sovereign nation, aligned itself with whichever country or block it wanted (as is its right) and now they "pay the price".

I can understand why. How dare an independent nation act independently - abominable!

[FlorC]

39 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Yes, their demand is that they'd be rewarded for their brutal invasion with total capitulation.

Only one answer can be given: <deleted> the <deleted> off!

Please BLM , go show them how it is done in the frontline .

[frank83628]

2 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

As with EVERYTHING, you are totally unaware of how Crimea was "peacefully handed" over.  It was an invasion by, as Putin called it, his "little green men" -- i.e. soldiers with no insignia (which is a war crime).  There was nothing "peaceful" about it.  If a bunch of armed thugs surprises you in your house so completely, you don't have time to react, is the fact that they have thrown you out of your house a "peaceful takeover"?

So if it was a war crime, why didn nothi g happen? You and others here accuse other of war crimes while ignoring you own countries, and some allies too.

[BLMFem]

1 minute ago, FlorC said:

Please BLM , go show them how it is done in the frontline .

Only if you promise to be on the other side, together with the orcs.

[Cameroni]

2 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

So Ukraine, a sovereign nation, aligned itself with whichever country or block it wanted (as is its right) and now they "pay the price".

I can understand why. How dare an independent nation act independently - abominable!

 

No, it's not their right to align themselves with whatever country. You see, Ukraine is a neighbour of Russia. Even disregarding all the historical ties, by the mere fact that it is a neighbour of huge, powerful  country like Russia, this means that Ukraine has to consider Russia's national interest. Ukraine can't keep poking Russia in the eye continously, because Russia is too powerful a country to antagonise that. The same with Panama, when it sold secrets to Cuba, the US swiftly invaded.

 

There is wishful, wishy-washy "Oh it's fair, world should be like this" thinking, and then there is realistic, real world thinking. According to the latter, Ukraine belongs in Russia's sphere of influence, and for its own safety and well being had to consider Russia's national interest. This is only logical. Ukraine jumping into bed with America and then Europe meant she cheated. Cheaters can meet a bad end. Not a good policy. Rarely pays off.

[SunnyinBangrak]

Difficult dynamics at play. An irrelevant yappy illegitimate powderboy with dreadful fashion sense, and 2 big dog alphas needing absolute wins for their egos. Sad to say Russia holds all the cards, no reason to not take all they want.

Id advise Trump to hit the links and forget about the whole region. The closest he should get is eating a bowl of borscht. Let the cards fall where they may. This is all Obamas fault for his weakness and duplicity.

[BLMFem]

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, it's not their right to align themselves with whatever country. You see, Ukraine is a neighbour of Russia. Even disregarding all the historical ties, by the mere fact that it is a neighbour of huge, powerful  country like Russia, this means that Ukraine has to consider Russia's national interest. Ukraine can't keep poking Russia in the eye continously, because Russia is too powerful a country to antagonise that. The same with Panama, when it sold secrets to Cuba, the US swiftly invaded.

 

There is wishful, wishy-washy "Oh it's fair, world should be like this" thinking, and then there is realistic, real world thinking. According to the latter, Ukraine belongs in Russia's sphere of influence, and for its own safety and well being had to consider Russia's national interest. This is only logical. Ukraine jumping into bed with America and then Europe meant she cheated. Cheaters can meet a bad end. Not a good policy. Rarely pays off.

What utter drivel. Ukraina is a sovereign nation and, like all other nations bordering Russia (excluding the failed state of Belarus), it can align itself with whatever block it likes.

Just like Poland, the Baltic states, Finland and Norway have done, and several countries in the Caucasus are trying to do.

Ukraine "cheated"?? You sound like a jilted teenager.😂

 

[FlorC]

14 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Only if you promise to be on the other side, together with the orcs.

Why should I ? I'm not the warmonger.

But I would be on the winning side in a justified war.

[Cameroni]

1 minute ago, BLMFem said:

What utter drivel. Ukraina is a sovereign nation and, like all other nations bordering Russia (excluding the failed state of Belarus), it can align itself with whatever block it likes.

 

No, you are badly mistaken. Ukraine is a direct neighbour of Russia, the most powerful country in the region. As such, Ukraine cannot align with Russia's enemies. Ukraine has to consdier the interest of Russia. If it does not ,very negative consequences folllow for Ukraine. Same for Georgia.

 

Ukraine is not Latvia, Ukraine is far more important as the gateway to the European plains. If this had fallen to NATO then Russia would have been unable to defend herself  propertly. Ukraine, however, will have learnt this lesson and is unlikely to join NATO now. And the EU would have to be insane to incporate Ukraine.

 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

I will make it clear to you.... The people of Crimea do not care what you or the 'west' think

You ask them or you just propagandize for Putin. 

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, you are badly mistaken. Ukraine is a direct neighbour of Russia, the most powerful country in the region. As such, Ukraine cannot align with Russia's enemies. Ukraine has to consdier the interest of Russia. If it does not ,very negative consequences folllow for Ukraine. Same for Georgia.

 

Ukraine is not Latvia, Ukraine is far more important as the gateway to the European plains. If this had fallen to NATO then Russia would have been unable to defend herself  propertly. Ukraine, however, will have learnt this lesson and is unlikely to join NATO now. And the EU would have to be insane to incporate Ukraine.

 

NATO is most definitely no longer an issue when it comes to Ukraine. It's off the agenda. Not going to happen. Maybe if talks of it happening were squashed immediately this war may not have happened.

[BLMFem]

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, you are badly mistaken. Ukraine is a direct neighbour of Russia, the most powerful country in the region.

Yes, and so are Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland (via Kaliningrad Oblast), Belarus, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, China, Mongolia, and North Korea, six of whom are members of NATO.

Case closed.

[BLMFem]

Just now, dinsdale said:

NATO is most definitely no longer an issue when it comes to Ukraine. It's off the agenda. Not going to happen. Maybe if talks of it happening were squashed immediately this war may not have happened.

Ukraine will most definitively become a member of NATO. Putin just needs to die first, and the sooner the better.

[frank83628]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You ask them or you just propagandize for Putin. 

Around 90% voted to join, speaks for itself

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Around 90% voted to join, speaks for itself

The referendum was illegal, the choices were skewed, the loyalist boycotted and the military at polling stations were I intimating factor. Speak of outright rigged in Russia favor. 

[candide]

7 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Putin publicly dissing Trump is a good thing; Trump has a fragile ego and it might wake him up to the fact that Putin DOESN'T view him as a fellow tough guy dictator but a pansy, a cuck, a simp, a chump.

Putin knows Trump is weak and will do nothing.

 

Z should be careful. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump would start blaming him again

[dinsdale]

8 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Putin publicly dissing Trump is a good thing; Trump has a fragile ego and it might wake him up to the fact that Putin DOESN'T view him as a fellow tough guy dictator but a pansy, a cuck, a simp, a chump.

Wow! You've been going on for hours. The syndrome is strong with you. One thing I've not seen so far in any of your posts is at least Trump is trying. Old sleepy Joe who, according to all your lot on the looney left was fit to be POTUS, didn't even speak to Putin to seek a resolution indeed it could be, has been and is being argued was happy to see it continue as was the EU. Calling Trump a dictator, which is implicit in your comment, simply shows you do not know what a dictator is and then calling Trump "a pansy, a cuck, a simp, a chump" just goes to show that the mind virus runs deep within you. HE'S TRYING TO END THE WAR yet all you can do is criticise with maximum hate. Pitiful. 

[candide]

6 hours ago, FlorC said:

It was under Obama in 2014 that the west staged a coup.

You know Sorros and Nuland.

Just one of the many links :

Obama and Soros—Nazis in Ukraine 2014—U.S. in 2017? (schillerinstitute.com)

 

Putin had no choice.

Now he holds all the cards , like Trump would say.

Good Russian propaganda! 🤣

[dinsdale]

37 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Ukraine will most definitively become a member of NATO. Putin just needs to die first, and the sooner the better.

Yeh right! Get back to us when this happens. Membership of the EU? Possibly. NATO membership? As I said not happening. Why don't you post something (sourced) that supports your statement. I along with others I'm sure would be interested to see your comment or is it just another one to add to your long list of baseless comments. Putin needs to die and the sooner the better well maybe some would say so does Zelensky and the sooner the better so there can be elections. Both ridiculous statements when you think logically which from your past posts seems to be beyond your grasp.  

[candide]

39 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, you are badly mistaken. Ukraine is a direct neighbour of Russia, the most powerful country in the region. As such, Ukraine cannot align with Russia's enemies. Ukraine has to consdier the interest of Russia. If it does not ,very negative consequences folllow for Ukraine. Same for Georgia.

 

Ukraine is not Latvia, Ukraine is far more important as the gateway to the European plains. If this had fallen to NATO then Russia would have been unable to defend herself  propertly. Ukraine, however, will have learnt this lesson and is unlikely to join NATO now. And the EU would have to be insane to incporate Ukraine.

The NATO threat argument is ridiculous!

European NATO countries had been reducing their military budget for decades since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The EU was concentrating on what it's doing best: peace. The U.S. military presence in Europe also significantly decreased. Missiles and nukes have remained where they were before and have not been moved closer to Russia. There was no threat to Russia!

[johng]

37 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Putin just needs to die first, and the sooner the better.

So after Putin dies who do you think will take over ?   someone sympathetic to Ukraine willing to give back Crimea and the eastern territories  pay for reconstruction , hand over the "child abductors" to  the ICC   and agree that Ukraine  joins NATO !!!   nope  not gonna happen.

[frank83628]

34 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The referendum was illegal, the choices were skewed, the loyalist boycotted and the military at polling stations were I intimating factor. Speak of outright rigged in Russia favor. 

Says the western propaganda machine. If you support Israel then you are in no position to lecture about illegal occupation.

[Cameroni]

46 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Yes, and so are Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland (via Kaliningrad Oblast), Belarus, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, China, Mongolia, and North Korea, six of whom are members of NATO.

Case closed.

 

No, not case closed. Norway, Finland and the Baltics, and Poland, do not have the highly strategic importance for Russian self defence that Ukraine has. In this regard Ukraine is far more important to Russia's ability to defend herself.

 

If the great plains of Ukraine fall to NATO the defence of Russia would essentially be impossible.

 

And no, Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. Russia would sooner invade all of Ukraine than see that happen. Because the loss of Ukraine would be tantamount to Russia being defenseless against invasion.

 

7 minutes ago, candide said:

The NATO threat argument is ridiculous!

European NATO countries had been reducing their military budget for decades since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The EU was concentrating on what it's doing best: peace. The U.S. military presence in Europe also significantly decreased. Missiles and nukes have remained where they were before and have not been moved closer to Russia. There was no threat to Russia!

 

It's not ridiculous at all, had Ukraine become a NATO member the great European plains would have been controlled by NATO, making Russia's defence impossible. Ukraine falling to NATO was and is a major threat to Russia's ability to defend herself.

 

[dinsdale]

Just now, candide said:

The NATO threat argument is ridiculous!

European NATO countries had been reducing their military budget for decades since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The EU was concentrating on what it's doing best: peace. The U.S. military presence in Europe also significantly decreased. Missiles and nukes have remained where they were before and have not been moved closer to Russia. There was no threat to Russia!

Fact is Putin saw it as a threat and said so. The EU and the US supported NATO expansion. Yes, the EU reduced it's NATO spending but still the US was and still is the backbone of NATO. Trump wants this to change.

Question is did the EU and the US want Russia to invade Ukraine? Was NATO expansion used a trigger/bait to get Putin to invade? Has Ukraine just been a pawn in a much larger scenario? I have posited these questions on here before but without intelligent replies. Certainly get plenty of the unintelligent/anonymised negative emojis from those without the balls or intelligence to dispute these assertions and which I expect again with this post.

I'm genuinely interested to see any comments to argue Ukraine hasn't been used as a pawn in a proxy war against Russia.

[frank83628]

34 minutes ago, candide said:

The NATO threat argument is ridiculous!

European NATO countries had been reducing their military budget for decades since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The EU was concentrating on what it's doing best: peace. The U.S. military presence in Europe also significantly decreased. Missiles and nukes have remained where they were before and have not been moved closer to Russia. There was no threat to Russia!

Peace, haha, yes, ok then