5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Romance is free. If you think of yourself before your partner, that's called selfishness. Loving yourself first is mandatory, but that doesn't mean you neglect your partners life. It does take time to romance before a woman gives herself "freely". Taking out the garbage all the time. Making dinner. Taking her out on dates. Getting her flowers for nothing besides a thought, doing the wash. Taking the kids out and letting her rest a day. Looking in her eyes when she talks and actively listening, hearing what she's saying instead of thinking about the latest football game.

 

It doesn't take a lot of extra money to show you care for the one who should be the most important person in your life. Providing for your family is a given, as responsibility isn't missed by a normal woman. A greedy one won't look at you as anything besides cash, and will give herself begrudgingly as her main focus is on possessions and how she looks to her "friends". Normal women do not think like greedy damaged ones. If you want steady sex, you give more than you receive, as they don't forget when someone shows love IF they are normal.

I see the regular thumbs down man has arrived. Every day just after I and others post, you can see that thumbs down coming, along with seeing him at the bottom in the list of members.

Well, I married a Pattaya bar girl 20 years ago. Still very happily married now with two great kids. For those past 20 years we have lived in Bangkok (where I also work).

My traits? Ambitous, tenacious, driven, successful, a family man, enjoy being with my wife, always supportive, and love a laugh.

Guess you can't generalise, eh?

7 minutes ago, JRG23 said:

Well, I married a Pattaya bar girl 20 years ago. Still very happily married now with two great kids. For those past 20 years we have lived in Bangkok (where I also work).

My traits? Ambitous, tenacious, driven, successful, a family man, enjoy being with my wife, always supportive, and love a laugh.

Guess you can't generalise, eh?

Good for you. Life is too short to not do what you want. 

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

Enjoy your prostitutes😂

And, how do you know your lady was snow-white..........?   🤔

 

No, don't bother, you probably believe everything you are told, bit like the OP...........😂

3 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Enjoy your prostitutes😂

Happily married to my Thai wife since 1984, but thank you all the same.

On 7/9/2025 at 5:04 AM, fredwiggy said:

30 years of reading up on psychology and why people do what they do.

Mostly bs. Language, culture and common interests are the main factors. Most farangs don't speak Thai, don't even like Thai food, don't care for Buddhism and don't follow the national sport. If a foreigner goes to France, speaks French, follows soccer, eats French food and fits in with the locals the amount of women they get exposed to is a lot higher. Same in Thailand or anywhere. There is no use fishing where there are no fish. Most farangs get catfish not barramundi. If you want a barramundi you have to go where they are and use the right bait.

I played pool with a girl the other night.

She didn't speak any English, so hard to gauge her personality.

But she had a nice personality. She seemed nicer than 100 other non bargirl women I've met. 

She claims she's been there 5 months. So not the same as 5 years maybe? 

 

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I played pool with a girl the other night.

She didn't speak any English, so hard to gauge her personality.

But she had a nice personality. She seemed nicer than 100 other non bargirl women I've met. 

She claims she's been there 5 months. So not the same as 5 years maybe? 

 

It is her job to attract a client isnt it? If she was unfriendly nobody would hire her 

11 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Mostly bs. Language, culture and common interests are the main factors. Most farangs don't speak Thai, don't even like Thai food, don't care for Buddhism and don't follow the national sport. If a foreigner goes to France, speaks French, follows soccer, eats French food and fits in with the locals the amount of women they get exposed to is a lot higher. Same in Thailand or anywhere. There is no use fishing where there are no fish. Most farangs get catfish not barramundi. If you want a barramundi you have to go where they are and use the right bait.

Mostly facts. Where else does anyone get factual evidence than from professionals in any particular subject? Taking others opinions that aren't educated enough or aren't in that business is less valid than taking advice from the former.

 

I'm not speaking of Thais but people in general, as all people are pretty much the same, with the same personality types, traits and human habits, with a few differences in cultures. He asked me where I got my information from and I told him.

 

Any man with money can end up with women in any country as there are enough greedy, material minded women to go around.

 

You don't need to speak their language although it can help. You don't need to like their music, food, politics, religion or national sports. Many expats never learn the language and many have wives that can't speak their language. Money keeps her around, which usually means a much better life than being with a local, especially in the country.

 

Thais prefer Thais if money isn't involved. If you want barrimundi you need to have money, especially if that fish is a lot younger than you. If you want a pretty, young woman that's independent here, you need to be in shape, be close to her age, plus have money.

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

Mostly facts. Where else does anyone get factual evidence than from professionals in any particular subject? Taking others opinions that aren't educated enough or aren't in that business is less valid than taking advice from the former.

 

I'm not speaking of Thais but people in general, as all people are pretty much the same, with the same personality types, traits and human habits, with a few differences in cultures. He asked me where I got my information from and I told him.

 

Any man with money can end up with women in any country as there are enough greedy, material minded women to go around.

 

You don't need to speak their language although it can help. You don't need to like their music, food, politics, religion or national sports. Many expats never learn the language and many have wives that can't speak their language. Money keeps her around, which usually means a much better life than being with a local, especially in the country.

 

Thais prefer Thais if money isn't involved. If you want barrimundi you need to have money, especially if that fish is a lot younger than you. If you want a pretty, young woman that's independent here, you need to be in shape, be close to her age, plus have money.

Mostly impractical bs. I've read books like this. Mostly useless in the real world. Look at you. Read books for 30 years, still lots of failed relationships. You don't get people Fred. About 10 to 20% of books is useful day to day. Women want to have fun and be supported emotionally and financially. It's not rocket science.

Perhaps a more interesting question is to ask what traits a man needs who adamantly refuses to ever consider a bargirl.

I’ll guess:

 

1)      He’s not packing much heat down there and fears others have satisfied her more than he ever could

2)      He’s so naïve he believes his woman really is a virgin, but just lost her hymen when she slipped on a banana peel

3)      His woman “only had one former lover”, but sadly he passed in a motorcycle accident before they could marry

4)      His mother caught him rubbing one out when he was 13, and sex has shamed him ever since.

5)      He KNOWS that even if he was a female born into abject poverty, he would never resort to selling his (her) body to make ends meet. He's just inherently superior. /sarc

6)      He came to Thailand full of Western morality, actually believing that some “creator” made 200,000,000+ galaxies, most with 500 billion to a trillion stars, just so in one galaxy on a planet circling one star made rules as to how often a female of one species was allowed to have a Tab A enter her Slot B, and under what circumstances. Of course, there are other folks believing their “creator” had quality control issues and demanded the men remove a female's love button, just so she won’t violate their deity’s rules.

 

It all boils down to a man’s personal level of confidence or lack of insecurity. Since in the West about half of all marriages fail, there’s really no argument for why a man would not consider a bargirl as a mate….unless he’s got a bizarre morality or is just woefully insecure.

 

Hard to imagine for such guys that even a bargirl could be a better human being and a more faithful partner than a “normie” or hi-so Thai woman. Now I’m not married to a bargirl, but her past would not be a consideration if I happened to fall in love. Today and tomorrow matter, but since I had more than my fair share of girlfriends back home, I shouldn’t be hypocritical. I see no moral high ground in one who has sex because of horniness and one who does it for money.

Stupidity 

16 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Thais prefer Thais if money isn't involved. If you want barrimundi you need to have money, especially if that fish is a lot younger than you. If you want a pretty, young woman that's independent here, you need to be in shape, be close to her age, plus have money.

Not really. Thai women are happy with any man that meets the 3 criteria of fun, emotional needs and finance needs. Many Thai women are unworldly and don't know much about farangs but if a farang enters their world and ticks of the 1,2,3 boxes they will be wanted.

 

You don't need to be close to her age either. 20 years is close enough.

 

You don't need to be fit or good looking either. Women care about looks in a man but that's no 4 behind the others. You see 8s and 9s dating ugly guys around the world. Dave Hughes is a comedian. He's a 1. His partner is or was an 8.5. He meets the top 3. 

1 minute ago, Harrisfan said:

Mostly impractical bs. I've read books like this. Mostly useless in the real world. Look at you. Read books for 30 years, still lots of failed relationships. You don't get people Fred. About 10 to 20% of books is useful day to day. Women want to have fun and be supported emotionally and financially. It's not rocket science.

Where did I say I've had lots of failed relationships? I said the women I've had children with weren't good parental or partner material. I've been with many women, but there are many reasons people don't stay with others, and it doesn't just mean one is bad or treating the other wrong. Different future plans, familiar values, places wanted to live, all can end a decent relationship.

 

I'm thinking you haven't read many books on the subject as you dismiss them, although many books all say the same things. You read many, think, then make a decision what makes sense.

 

There's no cut and dried method to determine what percentage of books is good or bad, as some are based on opinions and most are based on gathering evidence by talking to many individuals and couples.

 

I "get" people a lot more than you'll ever imagine, and very likely a lot more than you do. I already knew a lot about people from living in the world and dating a lot of women, listening to them, and listening to people who were successful in their relationships. What makes a good relationship is having two people who are first attracted to each other, are loyal, honest, trustworthy and want the same things in the future.

 

Why do you think a man reads many things on relationships when it's mostly women who do? it's a man who wants the best for his relationships, woman and family. My only problem was picking unstable women to have children with, as many worldwide can attest in their own lives, be it the man or the woman who made the wrong choices.

 

If you haven't read more than a couple of books, you'll never understand because we're all in the "real" world, no matter if you read or not. 

Same traits you would need if you married a stripper 

 

Understanding 

 

Then again op doesn't stipulate if she will continue working or not.  Many of the older girls are looking for a husband because their best before date is running iut

A good sausage perhaps…

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Where did I say I've had lots of failed relationships? I said the women I've had children with weren't good parental or partner material. I've been with many women, but there are many reasons people don't stay with others, and it doesn't just mean one is bad or treating the other wrong. Different future plans, familiar values, places wanted to live, all can end a decent relationship.

 

I'm thinking you haven't read many books on the subject as you dismiss them, although many books all say the same things. You read many, think, then make a decision what makes sense.

 

There's no cut and dried method to determine what percentage of books is good or bad, as some are based on opinions and most are based on gathering evidence by talking to many individuals and couples.

 

I "get" people a lot more than you'll ever imagine, and very likely a lot more than you do. I already knew a lot about people from living in the world and dating a lot of women, listening to them, and listening to people who were successful in their relationships. What makes a good relationship is having two people who are first attracted to each other, are loyal, honest, trustworthy and want the same things in the future.

 

Why do you think a man reads many things on relationships when it's mostly women who do? it's a man who wants the best for his relationships, woman and family. My only problem was picking unstable women to have children with, as many worldwide can attest in their own lives, be it the man or the woman who made the wrong choices.

 

If you haven't read more than a couple of books, you'll never understand because we're all in the "real" world, no matter if you read or not. 

So if you wanted to be a top chef you would focus on recipe books instead of spending 20 years in kitchens with top chefs 

2 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Not really. Thai women are happy with any man that meets the 3 criteria of fun, emotional needs and finance needs. Many Thai women are unworldly and don't know much about farangs but if a farang enters their world and ticks of the 1,2,3 boxes they will be wanted.

 

You don't need to be close to her age either. 20 years is close enough.

 

You don't need to be fit or good looking either. Women care about looks in a man but that's no 4 behind the others. You see 8s and 9s dating ugly guys around the world. Dave Hughes is a comedian. He's a 1. His partner is or was an 8.5. He meets the top 3. 

Yes really. Thai women prefer their own. They can relate because of the language, culture and growing up in the same place, with much the same background. That women all want fun, emotional needs met and being provided for is a given, anywhere. Most that go with foreigners have either been hurt by locals and or know a foreigner will meet their material needs. The rest of what I said is spot on. You can't put celebrities of any area into this, as they will attract mostly because of their money. 

Just now, Harrisfan said:

So if you wanted to be a top chef you would focus on books instead of spending 20 years in kitchens with top chefs 

No, you read for a reason, to better yourself no matter how decent a man you might already be. Some don't understand how to relate to women, and reading teaches you that, even if you were raised in a  close family. There's always a need for improvement, and how people learn things is based on a few methods. Reading, being taught personally and experience. All together is the best method. Knowledge is the key for any success, and anything anyone wants to learn can be learned by reading, as you don't only get one perspective but many. 20 books are better than learning from one chef.

7 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

No, you read for a reason, to better yourself no matter how decent a man you might already be. Some don't understand how to relate to women, and reading teaches you that, even if you were raised in a  close family. There's always a need for improvement, and how people learn things is based on a few methods. Reading, being taught personally and experience. All together is the best method. Knowledge is the key for any success, and anything anyone wants to learn can be learned by reading, as you don't only get one perspective but many. 20 books are better than learning from one chef.

6 months with a top chef is way better than reading 20 books. Not even close. Most knowledge never gets used from books. Kids go to school for 12 years+. They only used a small percent of the knowledge. 

14 minutes ago, Wingate said:

Perhaps a more interesting question is to ask what traits a man needs who adamantly refuses to ever consider a bargirl.

I’ll guess:

 

1)      He’s not packing much heat down there and fears others have satisfied her more than he ever could

2)      He’s so naïve he believes his woman really is a virgin, but just lost her hymen when she slipped on a banana peel

3)      His woman “only had one former lover”, but sadly he passed in a motorcycle accident before they could marry

4)      His mother caught him rubbing one out when he was 13, and sex has shamed him ever since.

5)      He KNOWS that even if he was a female born into abject poverty, he would never resort to selling his (her) body to make ends meet. He's just inherently superior. /sarc

6)      He came to Thailand full of Western morality, actually believing that some “creator” made 200,000,000+ galaxies, most with 500 billion to a trillion stars, just so in one galaxy on a planet circling one star made rules as to how often a female of one species was allowed to have a Tab A enter her Slot B, and under what circumstances. Of course, there are other folks believing their “creator” had quality control issues and demanded the men remove a female's love button, just so she won’t violate their deity’s rules.

 

It all boils down to a man’s personal level of confidence or lack of insecurity. Since in the West about half of all marriages fail, there’s really no argument for why a man would not consider a bargirl as a mate….unless he’s got a bizarre morality or is just woefully insecure.

 

Hard to imagine for such guys that even a bargirl could be a better human being and a more faithful partner than a “normie” or hi-so Thai woman. Now I’m not married to a bargirl, but her past would not be a consideration if I happened to fall in love. Today and tomorrow matter, but since I had more than my fair share of girlfriends back home, I shouldn’t be hypocritical. I see no moral high ground in one who has sex because of horniness and one who does it for money.

Packing heat isn't as important as knowing how to please a woman.

 

That bargirls have had many men inside them makes them jaded, looking at men as Johns and not a partner.

 

Most men understand finding a virgin isn't easy, especially the older you get and looking in the wrong places.

 

No one knows how many men a woman might have had. They could be honest and had 2, and liars and had 30. Time will always tell a smart man if a woman was promiscuous before him.

 

Catching your children "rubbing one out" is only going to embarrass them for a short while, as long as the parent doesn't shame them themselves. Everyone not damaged by parents can have a normal relationship with the opposite gender just by personal learning.

 

No one is superior to anyone on earth. Some just act better or worse. Thinking you are comes from learning that behavior from your parents.

 

Western morality is still morality, although all don't have it there, and there's nothing wrong with being moral, but there is something wrong with being immoral.

 

There is an argument for not wanting a bargirl. That thinking is already skewed, and most of it comes from being abused and neglected in childhood, or by being forced into the trade by scumbags  for profit, through addiction or fear. Entering the trade by either method hurts them emotionally, and in their thinking or men in general,and being a victim or an abuser in a marriage from this thinking isn't going to help matters.

 

Yes, most marriages fail, but in a bargirl relationship, you're already starting out in the red. Some have made it work, but it all depends on how long they've been in the trade, whether they were forced by parents for greed, or went there because their parents abused or molested them. If you catch one who hasn't been there long, then your problems aren't going to be huge later, whereas if you find one that's been involved for longer, or much longer, you're already working uphill from the beginning and might always be looked at as a John.

4 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

6 months with a top chef is way better than reading 20 books. Not even close. Most knowledge never gets used from books. Kids go to school for 12 years+. They only used a small percent of the knowledge. 

You guess at many of your replies. You have absolutely no information of any chefs and how they learned, and seeing there are millions of chefs, there's no telling how they learned. Again, anything you can learn from a person can be learned from a book. Personal lessons in a physical area, meaning sports, are better learned from a teacher, but can be bolstered by reading. mental lessons can be learned by books and teachers, none being any better than the other. Books are written by teachers. Your personal opinions about books shows only that you don't like reading, don't believe in it, or are limited in what it takes to learn anything. 

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

No one is superior to anyone on earth

Why do you say that? 

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You guess at many of your replies. You have absolutely no information of any chefs and how they learned, and seeing there are millions of chefs, there's no telling how they learned. Again, anything you can learn from a person can be learned from a book. Personal lessons in a physical area, meaning sports, are better learned from a teacher, but can be bolstered by reading. mental lessons can be learned by books and teachers, none being any better than the other. Books are written by teachers. Your personal opinions about books shows only that you don't like reading, don't believe in it, or are limited in what it takes to learn anything. 

You seem to have no idea about anything. Playing golf with Tiger 3 times a week for 6 months will teach you far more than 200 books. Nobody would rather read 200 books except you.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Books are written by teachers. Your personal opinions about books shows only that you don't like reading,

I just read 5 books in 2 weeks. I enjoyed the books but I'm smart enough to know these books are just books. They are limited in their practical application to life. You are not. 

25 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes really. Thai women prefer their own.

 

Some do, some don't, you may be right that most do, but a large number don't.

 

I'm talking to a girl now, who only wants farang, not interested at all in Thais.

 

27 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Most that go with foreigners have either been hurt by locals and or know a foreigner will meet their material needs.

 

I don't think that's it. Whilst yes, a first unsuccessful rel with a Thai can be a factor, I think the main reason is that farang are more interesting to many Thai girls, they look more attractive and are seen as easier to get along with. And yes, having more money.

 

Usually, a Thai girl will ride the farang c0ck carousel and after a string of disappointments will then lower her standards for a Thai provider.

Just now, Harrisfan said:

Why do you say that? 

Because it's common sense. All humans are equal. Their actions and words are what makes them worse as individuals.  Some of the worst acting humans have proven to be those with a lot of money and power. Some people are smarter than others because of genetics or desire to learn. That doesn't mean they are better humans. Some are better in sports because of genetics and desire to learn, along with practice. Media is what has looking better. People are all the same as humans. No matter if you're a CEO, wearing a Rolex and driving a Lamborghini, wearing Armani suits, living in a NYC penthouse and eating Lobster Thermidor, or are scrounging for food in a dumpster, wearing tattered rags, smelling like roadkill and have an IQ of 70, you still have as much worth as a hum as the former.

6 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

I just read 5 books in 2 weeks. I enjoyed the books but I'm smart enough to know these books are just books. They are limited in their practical application to life. You are not. 

Fiction doesn't count, They only enrich your enjoyment level, along with possible vocabulary. We aren't talking about all books but reading books to learn a certain subject, and again, reading is one of the best teachers.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Because it's common sense. All humans are equal. Their actions and words are what makes them worse as individuals.  Some of the worst acting humans have proven to be those with a lot of money and power. Some people are smarter than others because of genetics or desire to learn. That doesn't mean they are better humans. Some are better in sports because of genetics and desire to learn, along with practice. Media is what has looking better. People are all the same as humans. No matter if you're a CEO, wearing a Rolex and driving a Lamborghini, wearing Armani suits, living in a NYC penthouse and eating Lobster Thermidor, or are scrounging for food in a dumpster, wearing tattered rags, smelling like roadkill and have an IQ of 70, you still have as much worth as a hum as the former.

So a murderer is equal to a nice person who never harms 

Just now, fredwiggy said:

Fiction doesn't count, They only enrich your enjoyment level, along with possible vocabulary. We aren't talking about all books but reading books to learn a certain subject, and again, reading is one of the best teachers.

They were books on life and happiness. Some of them are world famous best sellers.