What Actually Makes You an “Old-Hand” in Asia?

[daveAustin]

Assimilating a bit, having good Thai friends, being more at home here than ‘back home’. 

[lamyai3]

Not sure the term can be defined in the same way these days. Old Asia Hand was more of a big deal twenty or thirty years ago when there were relatively fewer examples, typically with genuinely interesting histories. For example those here since the Vietnam War like Bill Jones in Pattaya, or who hitchhiked overland to Thailand in the 60's like Roger Crutchley (Bangkok Post). Guys like that would definitely deserve the title, but those of us who've put in two or three decades in the modern era not so much. 

[FolkGuitar]

35 years this past June, between Japan and Thailand.

I came for the culture and stayed for the people, food, and amazingly different lifestyles that will take me another 35 years to appreciate. 

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, SoCal1990 said:

After 20-30 years, you should at least be able to speak it with a 4th grade proficiency. No excuse not to. 

I speak Thai with reasonable proficiency, not fluent. I understand about 50% of what is spoken to me.

 

I retired here at age 65. It's much more difficult to learn a new language at that sort of age.

[mark5335]

12 hours ago, SoCal1990 said:

I’d say if you haven’t done at least 20 years here, you’re still a mid-level newbie. It’s only after the two-decade mark that you can claim true “old-hand” status. That's when you’ve seen governments change multiple times, witnessed street protests, department store fires, coups, tsunamis, currency crashes, floods, bar scenes rise and fall, and you’ve been through at least a couple cycles of Thailand reinventing itself.

 

adding to your list...when your can recall that Chongnonsi / Silom was the only business district; when you can recall all the past names of Molly Malones before it shut down in Convent Rd; when a private taxi from Don Muang to Silom would take 3 - 5 hours prior to any tollways being built; when Thong Lo Rd was just a long street full of wedding shops; when you could park your car inside the Nana Plaza courtyard; when it was an unsurfaced dirt road only from Patong to Kamala; and not being confined to Thailand...when you knew all the best pubs to visit in Singapore, KL, HCMC and Hong Kong.

[DeaconJohn]

Speaking the lingo has got to be #1.

If not, you're dealing with sensory deprivations akin to being deaf and dumb - you just don't know what is going on around you.

Some people seem to be born with an aptitude for learning languages.

I wasn't, but I overcame it to learn Thai because I didn't want my wife and our two daughters to see me as an illiterate who couldn't speak the language.

A close second would be a good marriage into a decent family.

Thais take care of their own, and that would include a farang who has lived among them for many years as a husband and father.

Family means everything here.

Your position in the family defines who you are.

Without one you are nobody.

Farang tao-nahn eng.

Most expats come here too late in life.

Too late to learn the language and attain some degree of literacy.

Too late to attract anything better than a mercenary woman and become a cash cow for her greedy relatives.

Living among low-life Thais in some cesspool like Sleaze-by-the-Sea, or leading an alienated hermit-like existence surely explains the Thai-bashing and general negativity so often seen on the forums and elsewhere.

Now that so many Faranglands have changed out of recognition and gone to the dogs, these expats are stuck here - they can't go home again.

 

[Gottfrid]

13 hours ago, SoCal1990 said:

What qualifies someone as a real old-hand in Asia, particularly in Thailand? Years in-country, experience with visas and immigration, half a dozen failed romances, knowledge of local culture, language skills, or merely staying long enough without going home?

 

Personally, I’d say if you haven’t done at least 20 years here, you’re still a mid-level newbie. It’s only after the two-decade mark that you can claim true “old-hand” status. That's when you’ve seen governments change multiple times, witnessed street protests, department store fires, coups, tsunamis, currency crashes, floods, bar scenes rise and fall, and you’ve been through at least a couple cycles of Thailand reinventing itself.

 

And for those who hit 30 years? I don’t even know what category that is… ancient relic? Museum piece? Or maybe just “part of the woodwork.” Either way, at that point you've seen it all, and none of it surprises you anymore. Not even a soi full of ladyboys. 

How about, just because of love?

[newbee2022]

13 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

How about, just because of love?

Ask the walking Mumies in Pattaya

[Rimmer]

22 years in Singapore followed by 24 years in Thailand, I think that qualifies me as an Old Asia Hand ☺️ 

[Gottfrid]

12 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Ask the walking Mumies in Pattaya

Why the need to do that. They are the part of expats, that have blown their brains out with daily intake of alcohol or/and other substances. There are a lot of good expats in Pattaya as well. Why not ask the normal people instead?

[jayboy]

9 hours ago, SoCal1990 said:

After 20-30 years, you should at least be able to speak it with a 4th grade proficiency. No excuse not to. 

 

Bill Heinecke, who has been here since boyhood, only has very rudimentary Thai language skills.But he understands Thailand backwards, and has the contacts to match.

 

I would not regard any AN member who came to Thailand as a middle aged person on spec (aka sex tourist) - as an "old hand". They simply do not have the intellectual capital nor would they really have much experience beyond the fleshpots - and that includes those who end up is some boring Isaan village.

[newbee2022]

9 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Why the need to do that. They are the part of expats, that have blown their brains out with daily intake of alcohol or/and other substances. There are a lot of good expats in Pattaya as well. Why not ask the normal people instead?

Yes, sorry.

You're right ❤️

[KhunLA]

Can't speak for Asia, as TH is the only place I've lived.  You don't need a lot of time in country to be an 'old hand', you just need to leave the barstool and read a lot.

 

First 2 yrs here (2021/23), saw the 'tourist' spots, since had to rely on public trans; plane, train, bus & ferries.  2003, bought a car, and got off the beaten path, for about 2 yrs of non-stop O&A, knowing it would wind down to 3 months a year, once the wee one started school.

 

Less than 5 yrs, saw all there really was to see and know about TH.  Now just revisiting or exploring new nooks & crannies, viewpoints.  Just fine tuning to best restaurants, coffee shops, views & relaxing.

 

Leave the barstool, and you become an 'old hand' fast.   And that was all done, first 5 yrs here, with paper map & LP.  No Gmaps, no smartphone, no booking sites, no internet, no forums, no YT, no travel sites.

[jayboy]

11 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

There are a lot of good expats in Pattaya as well. Why not ask the normal people instead?

 

I beg to differ.

[ColeBOzbourne]

I've met many who try to depict themselves as an 'old hand' as they turn conversation into competition and a game of one upmanship. I've been here longer than you. I've been to more places than you. I've been to better places than you. I understand Thai people and society better than you. Therefore, I am superior to you. Some attempt to take you under their wing and nurse you along. It's not very impressive because 'under the wing' of a human is called an armpit. 

[Peter Crow]

17 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Leave the barstool, and you become an 'old hand' fast.  

My first visit to Thailand was 1979, I must have spent three afternoons on barstools... Didn't want more, the guys there were about as articulate as Trump.. 

[Gottfrid]

36 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I beg to differ.

You can beg.

[novacova]

Again, this op is trying to project a location-based stereotype which is completely irrelevant to reality. Some people adapt well and quickly no matter where they are or what circumstances they’re in, whether in a work environment or some far away land, others struggle with it for a period or throughout their lives, all of which is well depicted here all over this forum platform. Different folks have different experiences and perspectives of those experiences that varies the ability to convey thought and expression, which may be perceived differently by others, the fewer experiences and human interactions in one location like home country will most likely be superimposed at another location. So, a very out going social person who is lived here for four or five years may have much greater experience and have adapted much more than that of someone who has lived here for forty years who doesn’t get out much. It’s the same human condition everywhere on the planet.

[VocalNeal]

10 hours ago, SoCal1990 said:

After 20-30 years, you should at least be able to speak it with a 4th grade proficiency. No excuse not to. 

 

I chose not to learn Thai because as you say I would have 4th grade - whatever that is - proficiency and could not possibly talk coherently to potential customers. So I let the Thai staff do the talking and I just held a clip board and made sage nods and gestured to tech staff. 

 

As for "Old Hand". I have noticed in my latest circle of expat friends a tendency to rate their status on length of time in country much like some guys rate their status by the size of their motorcycle. As for their "proficiency" in Thai; it only serves to confuse Thai restaurant staff more than simply pointing at a picture on a menu. I get by with basic "Taxi Thai" and paper and pencil and/or photographs in shops   I.E I went to an electrical shop; drew a representation of a switch and the sun and they gave me a photoelectric switch.🫲 I let my wife do all the culture stuff and don't really have any Thai people to whom I wish to have an in depth conversation. My Thai mates in that category all speak English.

 

So to all the Old Hands; what size is their motorcycle?

 

 

 

 

[ezzra]

Which hand? coz there's a difference between right and left hand, I know I do.

[DaRoadrunner]

Thailand can destroy you, mentally, physically and financially. Not surprising then that there are few surviving old hands. Roadrunner has been here since 1981, body and soul are (surprisingly) still together. Finding a way to survive has been a recurring struggle, if you survived living in this looney land then I guess that makes you an old hand.

[VocalNeal]

 

Thinking about this some more.

 

Maybe being an Old-Hand here is like being a parent. Children come home from school all excited and insist on telling mum/mom the new thing they learned today.  She has to sit and listen enthusiastically to this new thing she already knows.

 

 

[3NUMBAS]

A Bernard Trink reader renders you an old hand

[3NUMBAS]

You were a regular at the Marine bar inpatters 

[VocalNeal]

13 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

A Bernard Trink reader renders you an old hand

 

- To steal a kiss he had the knack but lacked the cheek to get one back. 

- Within this land of toil and sin your head grows bald but not your chin

 

[cjinchiangrai]

Moving past calling everything Thais do stupid. Most activities have good reasons, even if we do not see it.

[BKKKevin]

Being able to get the rubber band off takeaway without damaging it... 

[sidjameson]

58 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

- To steal a kiss he had the knack but lacked the cheek to get one back. 

- Within this land of toil and sin your head grows bald but not your chin

 

Great. Who wrote it?

[kwilco]

14 hours ago, SoCal1990 said:

with real experience

Trouble is what they think is "experience" turns out  to be just bad habits

[Kinnock]

To be a true 'old hand' in Thailand you must be able to put a red elastic band on the top of an inflated bag of som tam without losing the air.