28 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

The thread is about Ev sales falling off a cliff.  I'm giving my view why this may be.

I'm just giving my opinion why me and many people like me still love the stinky old natural powered engines. Simple as that. No attraction to battery powered cars just yet.

No need to demonise the greater majority of car lovers due to an ilogical ideological belief. 

I try not to demonize or make it personal.  But after a couple years of trying to enlighten them to the 'facts', and they still come back with the BS, it's hard to respect their thoughts.

 

If you like your ICEV, fine.  Us owners of, like our BEV, and that's fine.  All we hear is doom & gloom from ignorant people, along with telling us, what we know from experience of owner & driving, that we're wrong and don't know what we are talking about. 

 

And they don't seem to hear, BEV perform better, and cost less ... in TH.  One fact that they seem to ignore, we have owned and driven both unlike them, so we know which actually is a better choice, for us.  I know I would never own another ICEV.

 

No ideological belief, just simple facts.  THB to THB, ICEV can't compete against BEV of the same price point.

 

I have the BEV version of the same ICEV we owned 2 years prior to upgrading to the BEV version.  Loved the ICEV version, but like the BEV's performance better.

 

Coincidentally, an ICEV ZS was at the guesthouse, and wife noticed the engine revving higher than she expected, when leaving today, as an incline to the road from guesthouse parking.  That's a woman noticing that, and she's not a motorhead.  That tells you a lot.

My friend is a driver in the UK. He has to charge his cars on the motorway and it costs around 80 pence a unit to fast charge at service stations.

On 8/3/2025 at 7:59 PM, JBChiangRai said:

 

With 29.3% of new vehicles sold in Thailand in June being EV's, I wonder exactly who is the idiot here?

 

My neighbour Boonsong Ekachai for one.

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I try not to demonize or make it personal.  But after a couple years of trying to enlighten them to the 'facts', and they still come back with the BS, it's hard to respect their thoughts.

 

If you like your ICEV, fine.  Us owners of, like our BEV, and that's fine.  All we hear is doom & gloom from ignorant people, along with telling us, what we know from experience of owner & driving, that we're wrong and don't know what we are talking about. 

 

And they don't seem to hear, BEV perform better, and cost less ... in TH.  One fact that they seem to ignore, we have owned and driven both unlike them, so we know which actually is a better choice, for us.  I know I would never own another ICEV.

 

No ideological belief, just simple facts.  THB to THB, ICEV can't compete against BEV of the same price point.

 

I have the BEV version of the same ICEV we owned 2 years prior to upgrading to the BEV version.  Loved the ICEV version, but like the BEV's performance better.

 

Coincidentally, an ICEV ZS was at the guesthouse, and wife noticed the engine revving higher than she expected, when leaving today, as an incline to the road from guesthouse parking.  That's a woman noticing that, and she's not a motorhead.  That tells you a lot.

Bev do not perform better,that's a fallacy.

They may accelerate well initially but run out of puff pretty quickly.

Much like an another version of an external powered engine like a steam train. Heaps of initial powér from stored energy....then start replacing/ recharging/ shovelling coal.

Want to race for say 1000km?

Or even 250km driving hard?

 

Of course not. EVs simply can't do it.

 

Not knocking them, horses for courses but don't kid yourself that they can compete power and distance wise.

 

Around town a battery car could make sense for some.

And good for them.

 

They're not the first choice for everyone.... respect other people's choices.

 

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Your logic is impeccable for the next 6-12 months. But over 5-10 years it is not. The Accord and Camry will be working fine after 10 years if looked after, and their resale value will be miles higher

 

Everybody keeps saying that 10 year old Toyotas and Hondas are worth loads of money. The truth is they are not.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Around town a battery car could make sense for some.

 

When people knock EVs that they have never driven, they forget that those of us who now drive EVs also once drove ICE. 

 

I bought a new pickup while I was building my house and made the mistake of thinking it would be ok to take it on a 7 hour drive to BKK. 

 

Around town a pickup truck could make sense for some, but if you want to travel in comfort on a long trip you need a real GT with effortless performance and silent luxury - I will stick to my EV

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

Bev do not perform better,that's a fallacy.

They may accelerate well initially but run out of puff pretty quickly.

Much like an another version of an external powered engine like a steam train. Heaps of initial powér from stored energy....then start replacing/ recharging/ shovelling coal.

Want to race for say 1000km?

Or even 250km driving hard?

 

Of course not. EVs simply can't do it.

 

Not knocking them, horses for courses but don't kid yourself that they can compete power and distance wise.

 

Around town a battery car could make sense for some.

And good for them.

 

They're not the first choice for everyone.... respect other people's choices.

 

The speed limit here is 90, 120 kph in a few spots.  And yea, they will go 250 kms driving hard, with plenty of reserve.  Our car anyway, and that's a small battery, compared to most newer cars. 

 

Useless, but our top speed, per specs is 175 kph, as if I'd ever find out if true.  I rarely catch myself in the 120 kph range.  I'm comfy at 90-100 on non highway, open road.  Main highway, due to speed cameras, I do the speed limit. 

 

They'll out perform most ICEV in there class or price point.  Even our slow A$$ car.  I don't drive more than 3-4 hrs on the roads.  I need to stop, or wife or dog will need to.

 

Which BEV do you own ?

13 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Maybe governments should spend less on fossil fuel subsidies instead

 

 

 

The most popular EV in Thailand is the BYD Dolphin 1405 kg - 1780kg

 

The most popular ICE is the Toyota Hilux 1,475 kg - 2,270 kg

What is the International Monetary Fund's definition of a subsidy? 

3 minutes ago, TedG said:

What is the International Monetary Fund's definition of a subsidy? 

Obviously subsidies are nothing but a means of corruption.  No profitable business should be subsidized.   That's just silly.  Subsidizing fossil fuel industry that has record windfall profits.

 

Call me crazy, but giving money to millionaires, somehow just doesn't seem right.

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Obviously subsidies are nothing but a means of corruption.  No profitable business should be subsidized.   That's just silly.  Subsidizing fossil fuel industry that has record windfall profits.

 

Call me crazy, but giving money to millionaires, somehow just doesn't seem right.

 

What is the nature of these subsidies?  

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Obviously subsidies are nothing but a means of corruption.  No profitable business should be subsidized.   That's just silly.  Subsidizing fossil fuel industry that has record windfall profits.

 

Call me crazy, but giving money to millionaires, somehow just doesn't seem right.

Look at the number.  The IMP claims 7.1 trillion in "subsidies" to oil companies.   Does that number make sense? 

4 minutes ago, TedG said:

Look at the number.  The IMP claims 7.1 trillion in "subsidies" to oil companies.   Does that number make sense? 

I really don't follow or care about such things, as I don't pay taxes, haven't paid taxes in 23 or last 25 years, and have gotten all my taxes back, via USA Soc Sec.

 

Saying that, quick Google, for USA, this is silly enough ...

 

 

Free money (tax money) to millionaires ... 

 

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I really don't follow or care about such things, as I don't pay taxes, haven't paid taxes in 23 or last 25 years, and have gotten all my taxes back, via USA Soc Sec.

 

Saying that, quick Google, for USA, this is silly enough ...

 

 

Free money (tax money) to millionaires ... 

 

 

They exceeded expectations and made profits, which is good. 

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Obviously subsidies are nothing but a means of corruption.  No profitable business should be subsidized.   That's just silly.  Subsidizing fossil fuel industry that has record windfall profits.

 

Call me crazy, but giving money to millionaires, somehow just doesn't seem right.

Bizare post as you previously stated

We charge with 'excess' solar.  Without the ฿240k govt incentive, a good chance we would not have bought an EV, as very happy with our ICEV. 

What thrifty shopper buys a new car, then sells it 2 yrs later ?  We kept all prior ICEV for 5-7 yrs, selling at the 125k-150k kms mark, not 40k kms.

MG ZS EV (D): 949,000 baht net (1,189,000 baht retail price minus state subsidy of 240,000 baht)

https://www.nationthailand.com/pr-news/special-edition/40014070

UK Gov 

Electric Car Grant launched

Car manufacturers can apply for vehicle eligibility for the grant from 16 July 2025.

The Electric Car Grant has 2 bands. £3,750 for the most sustainably produced cars and £1,500 for cars that meet some environmental criteria. This is in recognition of the need to address embedded carbon emissions across a vehicle’s lifetime, as well as tailpipe emissions. Vehicles that do not meet minimum sustainability standards will not be eligible for a grant.

The minimum environmental criterion is for manufacturers to hold a verified science based target. Science based targets are commitments corporate entities make to reduce their environmental impact, in line with the UK’s international climate commitments, which are verified by the independent Science Based Targets Initiative. The amount of grant available per vehicle will depend on the level of emissions associated with production of the vehicle. Emissions from vehicle production are assessed against the carbon intensity of the electricity grid in the country where vehicle assembly and battery production are located.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/electric-car-grant-launched

Not all EV brands are happy with the grants some labelling them as stupid

 

World's largest EV maker brands Labour's Electric Car Grant 'stupid'

It has been fuelled by reports that Chinese car makers have seemingly been left short by the UK Government; it is reported that the region's ongoing reliance on coal-powered energy for its vehicle assembly and battery manufacturing will fail to adhere to the scheme's sustainability criteria. 

Manufacturers will discover if they've met the required thresholds to qualify early next month. 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-14932769/Worlds-largest-EV-maker-brands-Labours-Electric-Car-Grant-stupid.html

Five brands discounting EVs over concerns they'll be excluded from grants

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Bizare post as you previously stated

We charge with 'excess' solar.  Without the ฿240k govt incentive, a good chance we would not have bought an EV, as very happy with our ICEV. 

What thrifty shopper buys a new car, then sells it 2 yrs later ?  We kept all prior ICEV for 5-7 yrs, selling at the 125k-150k kms mark, not 40k kms.

MG ZS EV (D): 949,000 baht net (1,189,000 baht retail price minus state subsidy of 240,000 baht)

https://www.nationthailand.com/pr-news/special-edition/40014070

Those incentives were for companies only investing in TH, building factories, creating jobs, stimulating the economy, which brings in tax revenue.  A win win for everyone.   

 

Giving billions to millionaires with already established businesses making huge profits, only benefits the corrupt politicians and millionaires.

 

And no, without incentives passed on to the consumer, we wouldn't have bought the BEV, as stated, very happy with the ICEV version.   Already had the E-MC & ebike for local transport, if actually wanting to save money.  Neither bought with any incentive.

 

I wouldn't really miss the extra performance of the BEV over the ICEV, as I'd just be another ignorant person who never experienced it.  

 

I don't think any businesses should be subsidized, and believe in a real 'free market'.

 

The prices would have eventually come down anyway, as at the time, MG had a monopoly on EVs basically.   Once BYD arrived, and competition did it's thing, priced dropped, and they are all still making a profit.

 

We would have simply picked up the S5, two and half years later, for even cheaper.

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

The speed limit here is 90, 120 kph in a few spots.  And yea, they will go 250 kms driving hard, with plenty of reserve.  Our car anyway, and that's a small battery, compared to most newer cars. 

 

Useless, but our top speed, per specs is 175 kph, as if I'd ever find out if true.  I rarely catch myself in the 120 kph range.  I'm comfy at 90-100 on non highway, open road.  Main highway, due to speed cameras, I do the speed limit. 

 

They'll out perform most ICEV in there class or price point.  Even our slow A$$ car.  I don't drive more than 3-4 hrs on the roads.  I need to stop, or wife or dog will need to.

 

Which BEV do you own ?

I don't own one. Driven a couple. I'll stick with petrol and diesel power for the time being thanks.

Your money, your choice.

EV owners are becoming like crazy religious nutters and simply cannot accept other people's choices.

I know that in my diesel truck nothing is being recorded, including conversations, and being relayed back to China. It also doesn't have a remote kill switch which it can pretty well guaranteed the Chinese battery cars do. Same as the solar inverters with their hidden wifi transmitters as has been discovered recently.

What better way could there be to cripple an enemy...shut down the power grid and transport.

Everything the Chinese do is done with strategic intent. Everything.

They've pretty well shutdown manufacturing in a lot of countries by becoming the world's factory.

3 hours ago, emptypockets said:

EV owners are becoming like crazy religious nutters and simply cannot accept other people's choices.

 

The "crazy religious nutters" who "cannot accept other people's choices" are the EV haters who constantly try to lecture EV owners about EVs!

 

I have never said everyone should drive EVs.

 

If you can't manage self-checkout at your local store an EV is not for you. They come with apps which some find a bit confusing.

 

Stick to handing ฿100 to the pump guy and you'll be fine.  

4 hours ago, emptypockets said:

EV owners are becoming like crazy religious nutters and simply cannot accept other people's choices.

 

owners of electric vehicles, all of whom have driven internal combustion engine (ICE) cars for years, share their knowledge and first-hand experience about the benefits of driving an electric vehicle in daily life on this forum ... we BEV (battery electric vehicle) owners try to counter rumors, myths, and misinformation about electromobility with facts.

 

electric cars are not for everyone, especially not for those who feel the need to defend their fixed opinions with sometimes outrageous arguments. electric vehicles are not perfect, but in many ways, BEV's are superior to ICE cars ...

 

i don't know a single electric vehicle owner who has a problem with others choosing to drive ICE cars ... it's just another baseless claim from an anti-ev person!

7 hours ago, emptypockets said:

EV owners are becoming like crazy religious nutters and simply cannot accept other people's choices.

Just reply to this part, as the rest falls in 'tin foil hat' territory.   

 

We're not the ones on every EV thread telling owner how stupid they are, along with the doom & gloom that we face in the future.

 

We simply state why BEV are better for us, and try to enlighten others, with facts, comparison of specs & operating cost.

Just curious. What percentage of EV's in the UK are Teslas? Is this maybe an anti Musk thing? Nobody wants to buy used Teslas in the USA.

1 hour ago, gargamon said:

Just curious. What percentage of EV's in the UK are Teslas? Is this maybe an anti Musk thing? Nobody wants to buy used Teslas in the USA.

 

Nobody is buying Tesla's in the UK or EU and quite right too, if you buy one you can expect to be jeered in public.

2 hours ago, gargamon said:

What percentage of EV's in the UK are Teslas? Is this maybe an anti Musk thing? Nobody wants to buy used Teslas in the USA.

 

Tesla used to be the top seller in the UK, nobody wants to buy them now, new or used, hence the title of this post "U.K. EV values fall off a cliff" where it's really Tesla dragging the market down

 

 

19 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Everybody keeps saying that 10 year old Toyotas and Hondas are worth loads of money. The truth is they are not.

 

 

 

Talk about eco-woke distortion of the truth - you choose the one that has done about 30K a year for 10 years (275Ks+).

 

I looked for 10 year old EVs with 275Ks on the clock to compare - and guess what - there are none !!

  

BUT I found used 2024 BYD Seals (Accord equivalent) starting at 850K Baht.

 

AND the cheapest 2024 Honda Accord I could find is 1.5 Million - HEV. 

 

Right now - especially in Thailand, unless it is a Tesla - IMO only buy a HEV if you want electric. NOT a plug-in Hybrid (PHEV), because Thais do stupid things with electricity, and the electricity supply in Thailand is 'dubious' at best.

 

HEV batteries can only be charged by the car itself - they are far better designed, and are much safer, and that is why they have a better resale value - because Somchai cannot plug the car into his homemade/illegal power source, or the tampered with charger at the local petrol station.

Tesla Model 3 is fastest-selling used car in July – Auto Trader

The Tesla Model 3 is currently the UK’s fastest selling used car between three and five years old, according to data from online sales platform Auto Trader.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/tesla-model-3-is-fastest-selling-used-car-in-july-auto-trader/317011

Choice of used Tesla against an Jaguar I-PACE or a Fisker ocean its a no brainer Tesla

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO only buy a HEV if you want electric. NOT a plug-in Hybrid (PHEV), because Thais do stupid things with electricity, and the electricity supply in Thailand is 'dubious' at best.

 

HEV batteries can only be charged by the car itself - they are far better designed, and are much safer, and that is why they have a better resale value - because Somchai cannot plug the car into his homemade/illegal power source, or the tampered with charger at the local petrol station.

 

 

So you think they water down the DC charging stations but the liquid fuel at petrol stations is fine?

 

You definitely shouldn't buy an EV

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Tesla Model 3 is fastest-selling used car in July – Auto Trader

The Tesla Model 3 is currently the UK’s fastest selling used car between three and five years old, according to data from online sales platform Auto Trader.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/tesla-model-3-is-fastest-selling-used-car-in-july-auto-trader/317011

Choice of used Tesla against an Jaguar I-PACE or a Fisker ocean its a no brainer Tesla

 

Extrapolate that...

 

Many people are selling their Tesla's cheap because they don't want them.

 

The buyers are snapping a used Nazi bargain.

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The buyers are snapping a used Nazi bargain.

Anyone thinking Musk is a Nazi  and selling their Tesla cheap has fallen for some pretty stupid propaganda

( some might say they fell for another sort of propaganda buying the EV in the first place)

Anyway   Volkswagen and Porsche anyone ?

5 minutes ago, johng said:

Anyone thinking Musk is a Nazi  and selling their Tesla cheap has fallen for some pretty stupid propaganda

( some might say they fell for another sort of propaganda buying the EV in the first place)

Anyway   Volkswagen and Porsche anyone ?

 

teSSla 0 to 1939 in 3 seconds

22 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Many people are selling their Tesla's cheap because they don't want them.

Teslas are far superior than your Chinese scrap bucket.

23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The buyers are snapping a used Nazi bargain.

An utterly ignorant and idiotic statement.