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‘Putin clearly won’: Pundits say meeting was ‘bad for Americans’

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16 hours ago, sharot724 said:

My California Governor still has it going...

 

 

Arnie' it's pronounced Nobel🤔

Gyj8POkX0AAIgh0.jpg

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  • Another anti Trump thread, based on less than all the others    ... "Both leaders suggested progress had been made on talks about the future of the war in Ukraine but neither disclosed detai

  • The more Trump attempts to "play" the role as a kingpin the more he makes an ass of himself.  

  • The results were as expected.  Putin continues to make a fool of Trump.

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  • Popular Post
4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Well, most of the major European leaders are heading to Washington tomorrow, along with Zelinsky. Obviously there are things to discuss.  

 

This conflict is just one of the many sh!t sandwiches that were left behind by the previous administration, lets hope a deal can be made to end the killing.

Naa haggie they are going to force trump to betray Europe to their collective faces but I’m guessing trump will talk tough then taco when he doesn’t have to face them face to face.

15 minutes ago, Tug said:

they are going to force trump to betray Europe to their collective faces

How can you betray someone that hates you?

Europe is Americas enemy.

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Trump is no match for Putin; Putin has many years of experience as a senior intelligence officer/operative, easy for him to play Trump. 

5 minutes ago, JimHuaHin said:

Trump is no match for Putin; Putin has many years of experience as a senior intelligence officer/operative, easy for him to play Trump. 

 

I really don't get this line of thinking nor the complaints about trying to end the war.

 

How exactly did Trump get played?  There is no better deal you are going to get.  The Russians have been crystal clear for a long time now.  Sounds like they budged a little.

 

Take it or leave it. It's your war now.

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30 minutes ago, JimHuaHin said:

Trump is no match for Putin; Putin has many years of experience as a senior intelligence officer/operative, easy for him to play Trump. 

Trump's experience has been mostly ripping off people and has never graduated from the minor leagues.

14 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Trump's experience has been mostly ripping off people.  Trump has never graduated from the minor leagues.

 

Whatever.  Go put your big boy pants on and take your kids to war or cut yourself a better deal with Putin.  It's really that simple.   The United States want's nothing more to do with this sh*tshow.

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48 minutes ago, Miloki said:

 

Whatever.  Go put your big boy pants on and take your kids to war or cut yourself a better deal with Putin.  It's really that simple.   The United States want's nothing more to do with this sh*tshow.

If the U.S. wants no part of this why is the master negotiator even getting involved?

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no one has to be the master of the deal to make these type of deals, giving another country territories, rewarding  an aggressor can be done by any of us, Trump was talking tough before the meeting but again Putin forced him into a U Turn, now Trump is all sweet again with Putin, they are best buddies, they cal each other by first name basis that shows the world who Trump really his, Zelensky is supposed to be at the WH today Monday the 18th, it will be a waste of time and energy because Trump has been brainwashed again by Putin, some EU countries are trying to get into the meeting hoping Trump will see, they did warned him2 days before the Putin meeting, the reality of his misleading deals and comments, he's very much like my grand kid, one time is back 5 minutes later it's white and later it's black again, how can this guy be a leader of anything, he's the laughing stock of the international community and I do thin he should h=get help, there are many specialists to treat personality disorders 

 

Outline emerges of Putin's offer to end his war in Ukraine

https://au.news.yahoo.com/outline-emerges-putins-offer-end-213751529.html

 

4 hours ago, Miloki said:

 

I really don't get this line of thinking nor the complaints about trying to end the war.

 

How exactly did Trump get played?  There is no better deal you are going to get.  The Russians have been crystal clear for a long time now.  Sounds like they budged a little.

 

Take it or leave it. It's your war now.

 

It's a nonsense of course, Trump did the right thing, engage with Putin with the aim of seeking an end to the war. Nobody expected this would be resolved in one day in Alaska.

 

Obviously it was always going to tbe difficult, now that Russia is winning the war so clearly. Putin actually made a very generous offer, all he's asking is the Donbass region, which is very reasonable given the state of the battelfied.

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7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It's a nonsense of course, Trump did the right thing, engage with Putin with the aim of seeking an end to the war. Nobody expected this would be resolved in one day in Alaska.

 

Obviously it was always going to tbe difficult, now that Russia is winning the war so clearly. Putin actually made a very generous offer, all he's asking is the Donbass region, which is very reasonable given the state of the battelfied.

So Russia is winning the war now? Who judged Russia is winning? 

 

Take a brake from the propaganda machinery and think a little bit why you believe so, and who’s interest is it to make you believe Russia winning. 

 

It is still a war where they shooting at each other from ditches and they move two steps up, and two steps back 

11 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You mean THIS guy?

 

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Obama had 9 meetings with Putin, and he was an representative statesman who knew his task and also made a few deals with him, so obviously he had different agendas when meeting with Putin, and different approaches. 

 

 

Screenshot_20250818-053730_Original.png

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Obama had 9 meetings with Putin, and he was an representative statesman who knew his task and also made a few deals with him, so obviously he had different agendas when meeting with Putin, and different approaches. 

 

 

Screenshot_20250818-053730_Original.png

Exactly. He was trying to make deals, just like the current President. The myth that Obama was some tough guy negotiator who "stood up" to Putin is nonsense.  He was doing his job as President in spite of whatever personal animosity he may have felt. 

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On 8/16/2025 at 11:48 AM, Harrisfan said:

How would you do a deal? You anti Trump whiners have no ideas. Putin does not care what the west says.

Putin's economy is based on selling oil  - if that stopped through serious US sanctions and other financial moves, Putin would soon have no money for his war machine. Then, the west would not care what Putin says, for he'd be dead, the victim of  an open sixth floor window. The compromising material that Vlad has on little Donnie will likely make this scenario near impossible, but....we live in hope. 

21 minutes ago, Hummin said:

So Russia is winning the war now? Who judged Russia is winning? 

 

Take a brake from the propaganda machinery and think a little bit why you believe so, and who’s interest is it to make you believe Russia winning. 

 

It is still a war where they shooting at each other from ditches and they move two steps up, and two steps back 

 

So I guess Zelensky is evacuating Pokrovsk because there's a huge barbecue organised in Kiev? Who are you kidding? Even the BBC says Russia is grinding onwards in Ukraine.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0l0k4389g2o

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24 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

So I guess Zelensky is evacuating Pokrovsk because there's a huge barbecue organised in Kiev? Who are you kidding? Even the BBC says Russia is grinding onwards in Ukraine.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0l0k4389g2o

As mentioned by b17, all Trump has to do , which he indeed 'threatened' to do in 10 days,  is to whack up the tariffs on India and China if they  buy Russian oil. 

Tank the Russian economy.

But he chickened out as usual and instead went for a 'summit' where he did nothing but kowtow to the murderous dictator. 

Trump is even worse than Neville Chamberlain.

12 minutes ago, bannork said:

As mentioned by b17, all Trump has to do , which he indeed 'threatened' to do in 10 days,  is to whack up the tariffs on India and China if they  buy Russian oil. 

Tank the Russian economy.

But he chickened out as usual and instead went for a 'summit' where he did nothing but kowtow to the murderous dictator. 

Trump is even worse than Neville Chamberlain.

 

Trump is not Neville Chamberlain and Putin is  certainly not Hitler. That comparison falls at any number of hurdles, for a start Putin could never even conquer all of Ukraine, let alone Poland, the Baltics, Sweden or Finland. The Russian economy is already not strong enough and more akin to Spain and Russia could never pose a threat to Western Europe.

 

Trump did not "chicken out" he took the very courageou step to engage and meet with Putin, which he knew would be attacked by Europeans and Democrats. However, it is absolutely the right decision, the only way a peace can be made is a proper negotiation, not with any tariffs.

 

Putin is not a dicator of course, he's an elected president.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

So I guess Zelensky is evacuating Pokrovsk because there's a huge barbecue organised in Kiev? Who are you kidding? Even the BBC says Russia is grinding onwards in Ukraine.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0l0k4389g2o

Still far away from losing the war, if you knew a little bit of warfare and how Putin desperately trying to improve now before and during the peace talks, and not just coloured by the mass media forcing you to think any deal is a good deal. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Trump is not Neville Chamberlain and Putin is  certainly not Hitler. That comparison falls at any number of hurdles, for a start Putin could never even conquer all of Ukraine, let alone Poland, the Baltics, Sweden or Finland. The Russian economy is already not strong enough and more akin to Spain and Russia could never pose a threat to Western Europe.

 

Trump did not "chicken out" he took the very courageou step to engage and meet with Putin, which he knew would be attacked by Europeans and Democrats. However, it is absolutely the right decision, the only way a peace can made is a proper negotiation, not with any tariffs.

 

Putin is not a dicator of course, he's an elected president.

 

 

Putin is a dictator, no opposition is tolerated,  they're either in jail, exile or murdered.

He is also a mass murderer of civilians and soldiers in Ukraine, a sovereign country he invaded.

Everyone, including Rubin, knows Putin only listens to might and power.

“As soon as I take office, I will move quickly to increase pressure on Moscow,” Rubio said. “Under my administration, there will be no pleadings for meetings with Vladimir Putin. He will be treated for what he is – a gangster and a thug.”

Vladimir Putin is 'a gangster and thug', says US presidential candidate Marco Rubio | US elections 2016 | The Guardian

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5 hours ago, Miloki said:

 

Whatever.  Go put your big boy pants on and take your kids to war or cut yourself a better deal with Putin.  It's really that simple.   The United States want's nothing more to do with this sh*tshow.

Support for Greater U.S. Role in Ukraine Climbs to 46% High

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Three years into the Russia-Ukraine war, 46% of Americans believe the U.S. is not doing enough to help Ukraine in the conflict, marking a 16-percentage-point increase since December to a new high in the trend that dates back to 2022. At the same time, the proportions thinking the U.S. is doing too much (30%) or the right amount (23%) for Ukraine have shrunk.

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/658193/support-greater-role-ukraine-climbs-high.aspx

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

How can you betray someone that hates you?

Europe is Americas enemy.

Thanks for the dumbest reply of the day. 

Just now, spidermike007 said:

Thanks for the dumbest reply of the day. 

So America didn't have a war with

England, Spain, Germany, Italy ..... All countries in Europe.

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14 minutes ago, bannork said:

Putin is a dictator, no opposition is tolerated,  they're either in jail, exile or murdered.

He is also a mass murderer of civilians and soldiers in Ukraine, a sovereign country he invaded.

Everyone, including Rubin, knows Putin only listens to might and power.

“As soon as I take office, I will move quickly to increase pressure on Moscow,” Rubio said. “Under my administration, there will be no pleadings for meetings with Vladimir Putin. He will be treated for what he is – a gangster and a thug.”

Vladimir Putin is 'a gangster and thug', says US presidential candidate Marco Rubio | US elections 2016 | The Guardian

Thanks for reminding the MAGA crowd, although they seem to know that based on how silent they've been the last few days. 

27 minutes ago, bannork said:

Putin is a dictator, no opposition is tolerated,  they're either in jail, exile or murdered.

He is also a mass murderer of civilians and soldiers in Ukraine, a sovereign country he invaded.

Everyone, including Rubin, knows Putin only listens to might and power.

“As soon as I take office, I will move quickly to increase pressure on Moscow,” Rubio said. “Under my administration, there will be no pleadings for meetings with Vladimir Putin. He will be treated for what he is – a gangster and a thug.”

 

They're all gangsters and thugs, from Obama to Bush to Trump, I mean they send killing teams to kill people, Obama did it, Bush did it and Trump would do it. Unfortunately that is the state of statecraft today.

 

However,  Putin was elected. There was opposition to his election but they did not get as many votes. If you check Carl Schmitt's definition of dictatorship there is no way that Putin is a dictator.

 

Of course it's regrettable how cavalier the Russian army is towards murder of civilians, but so were the British in WWII. Let's not see the West climb  on a high horse, when they were not better in warfare. Worse in fact.

 

 

16 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Yeah I remember how well Putin and the secret police treated his political opponents. You have a bizarre definition of who an elected president is.

 

If you study the work of Carl Schmitt, the foremost authority on the concept of "dictatorship" this may yield a few surprises.

 

Dictatorship, is a necessary legal institution in constitutional law and has been wrongly portrayed as just the arbitrary rule of a so–called dictator..

 

The attribution of extraordinary powers to an individual emerges as a crucial tool in times of crisis when the existing order is unable to cope with pressures. Indeed, the practices of Italian and German states, France, and Cromwell’s England, pertaining to different situations, such as political crises, revolutions, and counterrevolutions, allows Schmitt to dissect two basic forms of dictatorship: a commissarial one, which is established with a mandate to restore the pre-existing order, and a sovereign one, which arises at the vanguard of change with a mission to bring forth an order which is yet to materialise. 

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2014/03/11/book-review-dictatorship-by-carl-schmitt/

 

Putin, very clearly, is neither. Zelensky, however, could be described as the former type of dictator, the first category.

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

They're all gangsters and thugs, from Obama to Bush to Trump, I mean they send killing teams to kill people, Obama did it, Bush did it and Trump would do it. Unfortunately that is the state of statecraft today.

 

However,  Putin was elected. There was opposition to his election but they did not get as many votes. If you check Carl Schmitt's definition of dictatorship there is no way that Putin is a dictator.

 

Of course it's regrettable how cavalier the Russian army is towards murder of civilians, but so were the British in WWII. Let's not see the West climb  on a high horse, when they were not better in warfare. Worse in fact.

 

 

 

The warfare of the Imperium haven't changed since day one, same thing same deleted same vendinga

 

And every enemy is willing to do the same and also willing to go further to conquer piece by piece

Dictatorial power in its original, Roman form is a formally delegated and time-limited power to defend an already existing republican constitution through the use of extra-legal force.

 

But the relation between sovereignty and dictatorship changed in the French revolution. The revolutionary governments relied heavily on dictatorial action to create a new situation of normality that would allow a new constitution to come into force. The revolutionary governments, like the absolutist sovereign, claimed the power to decide on the exception, but they did not claim to be sovereign. Rather, they claimed to exercise the authority to decide on the exception in the name of the French people, even while they were ruling the French people by the use of dictatorial methods (D 132–47). Sovereignty and dictatorship had become fused in the novel institution of sovereign dictatorship: A sovereign dictator is a dictator who does not defend an already existing constitution but attempts to create a new one and who does so not by his own authority but in the name of the people 

 

In essence, dictatorship, in the modern sense, is a by-product of democracy, largely invented by the French during their revolution. Schmitt argues that it is also highly compatible with democracy, indeed, a required part of it.

 

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schmitt/#SovDic

 

I don't see how Putin can be described as a dictator, since he does not meet the criteria.

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

So America didn't have a war with

England, Spain, Germany, Italy ..... All countries in Europe.

Paradoxically part of the reason for the Spanish-American War was the liberation of Cuba from the oppressive yoke of Spanish colonialism. Not all wars are the same and nothing is as simplistic as you attempt to make it sound with your jingos. 

 

You can make an argument that there are good wars and there are bad wars. The US war with England was a good war as the US freed itself from a colonial power, which is always a good thing. The US war with Italy and Germany was also a good thing, and it was not something that we wanted to engage in it, but was forced upon us by a genocidal superfreak. 

 

What we might agree is that virtually every other war that the US has fought in was a bad War, except World War I. 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Dictatorial power in its original, Roman form is a formally delegated and time-limited power to defend an already existing republican constitution through the use of extra-legal force.

 

But the relation between sovereignty and dictatorship changed in the French revolution. The revolutionary governments relied heavily on dictatorial action to create a new situation of normality that would allow a new constitution to come into force. The revolutionary governments, like the absolutist sovereign, claimed the power to decide on the exception, but they did not claim to be sovereign. Rather, they claimed to exercise the authority to decide on the exception in the name of the French people, even while they were ruling the French people by the use of dictatorial methods (D 132–47). Sovereignty and dictatorship had become fused in the novel institution of sovereign dictatorship: A sovereign dictator is a dictator who does not defend an already existing constitution but attempts to create a new one and who does so not by his own authority but in the name of the people 

 

In essence, dictatorship, in the modern sense, is a by-product of democracy, largely invented by the French during their revolution. Schmitt argues that it is also highly compatible with democracy, indeed, a required part of it.

 

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schmitt/#SovDic

 

I don't see how Putin can be described as a dictator, since he does not meet the criteria.

Is that truly and honestly the best defense that you can muster up for Putin, and for the way that Trump is currently treating Putin? 

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