There should be an island thousands of miles from anywhere and civilisation that all anti-vaxers can go to live free from medical science and modern medicine.

 

Maybe with a few witch doctors and black magic practitioners to run the local hospital.

AI Overview
In the 1700s, there was no "vaccination" as we know it, but rather variolation, a dangerous procedure that involved inserting material from a smallpox pustule into a healthy person's skin to induce a mild, hopefully protective, form of the disease. This practice was introduced to America in Boston in 1721 and later adopted by George Washington for the Continental Army in 1777, a move credited with helping the colonies win the Revolutionary War. 

The Method: Variolation

 

I prefer...

 

 

7 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

There should be an island thousands of miles from anywhere that all anti-vaxers can go to live free from medical science and modern medicine.

 

Maybe with a few witch doctors and black magic practitioners to run the local hospital.

 

 

...plus one person suffering from smallpox......and one with polio.....let them embrace nature.

This thread gets the grand prize for dumbest of all anti-vax threads.

Only one dumber would be a smallpox thread.

 

Base on world wide elimination or near worldwide elimination of these diseases.

Douglas Sayer Ji (born October 10, 1972) is the founder of alternative medicine portal GreenMedInfo, a website known for promoting various pseudoscientific publications. He was identified in 2020 as one of the largest promoters of COVID-19 misinformation on social media.

 

Wikipedia

2 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Douglas Sayer Ji (born October 10, 1972) is the founder of alternative medicine portal GreenMedInfo, a website known for promoting various pseudoscientific publications. He was identified in 2020 as one of the largest promoters of COVID-19 misinformation on social media.

 

Wikipedia

 

 

Anti-vaxxers can use any sources they want on this forum......bit like a bear pit.

I cannot believe that the OP and Stiddle Mump can honestly try to peddle such garbage.

Their denial of true facts and reality defy comprehension.  

I was going to ignore them - but their contributions to the forums are actually good for a laugh!

30 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

This thread gets the grand prize for dumbest of all anti-vax threads.

Only one dumber would be a smallpox thread.

 

Base on world wide elimination or near worldwide elimination of these diseases.

RFK is promoting Smallpox with his anti-vax and raw milk program. It is almost like that old French guy never existed.

21 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

You are nature. I am nature. Nature is us. We are nature.

 

It is not in nature's interest to have invisible entities, hiding behind a tree, or a lamp post, that will pounce on us at every opportunity. That's man-made nonsense.

 

Essentially, nature is only interested in two things; survival and reproduction. Along with those two essentials come protection, good thoughts, clean living. nutritious food, clean water, fresh air and an appreciation of who we are within nature's realm.

 

Have we forgotten our purpose on this earth. Is out true destiny becoming further and further away?

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

 

I totally agree.

 

5 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

A quack am I Gamby?

 

I'll have you know I've never been stuck off. My reputation is right up there. On this platform and the BWW.

Your posts are nothing but your uninformed opinion repeated as an incantation to ward off real science.

 

Sorry, but stuck off doesn't mean diddly to me.  Perhaps you mean that as the re-incarnation of OWL SEES ALL you have yet to be censored by a forum moderator?

 

Is the 'fake french guy' you used as proxy when OWL ran afoul still around?

 

Why do you resort to weird trickery to continue to hang out here? 

4 hours ago, G Rex said:

I cannot believe that the OP and Stiddle Mump can honestly try to peddle such garbage.

Their denial of true facts and reality defy comprehension.  

I was going to ignore them - but their contributions to the forums are actually good for a laugh!

Facts indeed! Like the 'facts' associated with the 'Germ Theory'?

 

I cannot find any reference, anywhere, that says 'infection' is contagious. I cannot find any experiment (documented) that shows a virus even exists; let alone causes harm.

 

Any truth out there; I'm listening. Any junk science - as in vaccines - I'll rebel against it, and say why.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

I cannot find any reference, anywhere, that says 'infection' is contagious. I cannot find any experiment (documented) that shows a virus even exists; let alone causes harm.

I feel bad for you stuck in that windowless and doorless silo.  Maybe Owl Sees All will come keep you company.

8 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I feel bad for you stuck in that windowless and doorless silo.  Maybe Owl Sees All will come keep you company.

Thanks for feeling bad for me Gamby.

 

Now! What about those links?  Reference, anywhere, that says 'infection' is contagious. And one that shows a virus even exists.

On 9/8/2025 at 1:33 PM, Red Phoenix said:

 

Always the messenger, never the content. 

At least @TimBKK - although I do not agree with his verdict - made the effort to look into the arguments presented by Sayer Ji.  

But the content is bad as well.

I.e. there was an issue with the original dead-virus vaccine manufactured at one lab in California where they didn't kill the virus properly, so it got a bad reputation so the US switched to a live-virus vaccine for decades, which did have the issue that a tiny proportion of people could get the disease from the vaccine.

But then they switched back to the dead-virus vaccine in the 90s to end that problem.

I.e. It's talking about a problem that hasn't been a problem for 30 years...

1 hour ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Facts indeed! Like the 'facts' associated with the 'Germ Theory'?

 

I cannot find any reference, anywhere, that says 'infection' is contagious. I cannot find any experiment (documented) that shows a virus even exists; let alone causes harm.

 

Any truth out there; I'm listening. Any junk science - as in vaccines - I'll rebel against it, and say why.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

 

 

 

I am not sure where you get your facts from! - (or what credentials (if any) you have), other than internet searches for information that conforms with your views.

I worked as a veterinarian for 35 years, and have a lot(!) of experience dealing with the effect of germs (bacteria) , protozoa, parasites and viruses.  I have seen first hand the effect that vaccinations have in the prevention of many diseases in many species.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinions - but that is all they are. Trying to educate or (mis)inform others of your beliefs is not only wrong, but potentially dangerous.

 

You sound like a religious zealot trying to convert and save us!

 

2 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

I cannot find any reference, anywhere, that says 'infection' is contagious. I cannot find any experiment (documented) that shows a virus even exists; let alone causes harm.

 

I have trouble believing that people willingly admit things like this in public. It actually made me grimace when I read it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that 'you' can't find this information says more about you than about the information.

On 9/8/2025 at 12:05 AM, Red Phoenix said:

Why Trump is Wrong About the Polio Vaccine: It is Far From Amazing

Great article by Sayer Ji, explaining in full detail why Trump's recent praise of the polio vaccine is flat out wrong (looks like Trump is being played again by Bill Gates 'of Hell') 

 

 

Source: https://sayerji.substack.com/p/why-trump-is-wrong-about-the-polio

 

"Look, you have some vaccines that are so amazing. The polio vaccine, I happen to think is amazing," President Donald Trump declared on 5 September, echoing the words of Bill Gates, which had been given a prominent platform at a White House dinner just days earlier."

...

In mainstream tellings, polio was a terrifying viral scourge eliminated by Salk and Sabin's "miracle" vaccines, and today we are on the cusp of eradicating it globally if everyone would just comply. Gates himself never misses a chance to repeat that polio cases have dropped 99% since 1988 "thanks to mass vaccination campaigns". The polio vaccine, we're told, is "not controversial" -- a model of safe, effective medicine that no sane person could oppose. Trump echoed exactly this sentiment, urging that "vaccines that work...they're not controversial at all...those vaccines should be used"¹. But this rosy narrative is far from the full story. In fact, it's flat-out wrong on multiple counts:

,,,

Trump's newfound parroting of Gates's polio talking points is therefore not a triumph of bipartisanship -- it's a dangerous re-centering of a narrative that desperately needs to be challenged."

 

In this very well researched article Sayer Ji breaks down each myth and reveals what the real polio story looks like.  The article can be accessed here > 

https://sayerji.substack.com/p/why-trump-is-wrong-about-the-polio

 

Mod's note: post content shortened to comply with fair use quoting.

The vaccine was introduced in 1955. Observe the graph's lines after mass vaccination began.

 

 

3 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Now! What about those links?  Reference, anywhere, that says 'infection' is contagious. And one that shows a virus even exists.

 

On 9/8/2025 at 1:33 AM, Red Phoenix said:

Always the messenger, never the content.

The content is garbage.   It's easy to debunk. 

On 9/8/2025 at 2:33 PM, nglodnig said:

Welcome -  you are number 22 in my ignore list

He has been on mine for a long time.

On 9/8/2025 at 12:33 PM, Red Phoenix said:

 

Always the messenger, never the content. 

  

When an experienced B-double truck driver gives me instruction on how to drive a truck, I'll listen.

 

If it is someone who only just learned to ride a bicycle, I won't.

While there is no denying that some people have an adverse reaction to a particular vaccine, there is no denying the number of lives that have been saved by vaccination.

 

Smallpox was to all intents and purposes eradicated, with some samples being kept in some medical research labs by governments.

 

Why not Polio?

4 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Now! What about those links?  Reference, anywhere, that says 'infection' is contagious. And one that shows a virus even exists.

The long term damage from the Dunning-Kruger effect has left no room for uncomfortable facts in your brain.  It would be just a waste of time and electricity to post what is so easily found by the willing.

 

You've spent countless hours mucking about in the gutters of the internet .... take a break and seek the sunshine of science.

6 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

The long term damage from the Dunning-Kruger effect has left no room for uncomfortable facts in your brain.  It would be just a waste of time and electricity to post what is so easily found by the willing.

 

You've spent countless hours mucking about in the gutters of the internet .... take a break and seek the sunshine of science.

He is just a brainwashed anti-vaxer 

On 9/8/2025 at 12:38 AM, TimBKK said:

 

Executive summary

 

The piece blends a few correct points (e.g., the Cutter incident; OPV can, rarely, seed vaccine-derived polio) with many inaccurate or misleading claims. The core assertions that polio was chiefly pesticide poisoning, that the disease “disappeared” because of bookkeeping tricks, and that eradication is a mirage are contradicted by a century of virology, surveillance methods, and real-world outcomes. Vaccination (IPV/OPV), plus sanitation, drove a >99% drop in wild polio worldwide; two wild serotypes are certified eradicated, and WPV1 persists only in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Vaccine-derived outbreaks are real but occur almost exclusively where vaccination coverage is low—and global programs have switched tools (e.g., IPV use in many countries; nOPV2) to reduce that risk.

 

Overall verdict: mostly inaccurate, with selective use of real problems to imply the consensus story is “flat-out wrong.”

 

Here's my AI version with a touch of Film Noir...

 

That dame. She strolled into my office, all dressed up in half-truths and lies, a dame with a story that was a cocktail of just enough fact to be believable and a chaser of pure fiction. She had some juicy tidbits, sure—a whisper about the Cutter incident, a little wrinkle in her tale about the OPV going rogue. But the rest of her story? It was a cheap suit on a flimsy frame.

She had the gall to tell me the sickness was a ghost, a mirage conjured up by bookkeepers with a pen and a dream. She swore the real killer was something as common as pesticide poisoning, a patsy to take the fall for a disease that was just a tall tale. She even had the nerve to say that the whole idea of an eradication was a fool's errand. A real knockout, that one.

But the facts were all there, laid out on my desk like a deck of cards I knew how to play. A century of virology and surveillance told a different story. The cure wasn't a magic trick; it was a pair of jabs and a clean-up crew. And it worked. The proof was in the pudding: a 99% drop in the numbers. Two of the wild serotypes were already sleeping with the fishes, and the last one was on its last legs.

As for those so-called vaccine-derived outbreaks? The ones she was so keen on using as a gotcha? They were a joke. A punchline that only landed where no one was vaccinated, a cruel kind of irony that the tool meant to save them was the very one that caused them harm. But even that was getting straightened out; the boys on the global beat were already swapping out their gear to make sure that gag never got to play out again.

6 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Here's my AI version with a touch of Film Noir...

 

That dame. She strolled into my office, all dressed up in half-truths and lies, a dame with a story that was a cocktail of just enough fact to be believable and a chaser of pure fiction. She had some juicy tidbits, sure—a whisper about the Cutter incident, a little wrinkle in her tale about the OPV going rogue. But the rest of her story? It was a cheap suit on a flimsy frame.

She had the gall to tell me the sickness was a ghost, a mirage conjured up by bookkeepers with a pen and a dream. She swore the real killer was something as common as pesticide poisoning, a patsy to take the fall for a disease that was just a tall tale. She even had the nerve to say that the whole idea of an eradication was a fool's errand. A real knockout, that one.

But the facts were all there, laid out on my desk like a deck of cards I knew how to play. A century of virology and surveillance told a different story. The cure wasn't a magic trick; it was a pair of jabs and a clean-up crew. And it worked. The proof was in the pudding: a 99% drop in the numbers. Two of the wild serotypes were already sleeping with the fishes, and the last one was on its last legs.

As for those so-called vaccine-derived outbreaks? The ones she was so keen on using as a gotcha? They were a joke. A punchline that only landed where no one was vaccinated, a cruel kind of irony that the tool meant to save them was the very one that caused them harm. But even that was getting straightened out; the boys on the global beat were already swapping out their gear to make sure that gag never got to play out again.

If I unleash my imagination, I can hear Bogart narrating this tale as Sam Spade.

2 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

 

A model done by an art class in Oxford Sir

1 hour ago, still kicking said:

He is just a brainwashed anti-vaxer 

I'm pro-nature.

11 hours ago, G Rex said:

 

I am not sure where you get your facts from! - (or what credentials (if any) you have), other than internet searches for information that conforms with your views.

I worked as a veterinarian for 35 years, and have a lot(!) of experience dealing with the effect of germs (bacteria) , protozoa, parasites and viruses.  I have seen first hand the effect that vaccinations have in the prevention of many diseases in many species.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinions - but that is all they are. Trying to educate or (mis)inform others of your beliefs is not only wrong, but potentially dangerous.

 

You sound like a religious zealot trying to convert and save us!

 

The biggest problems with domesticated and farm animal's health are; 

 

Living conditions.

Poor diet.

Over, and unnecessary, medication.

 

Is there special viruses for animals then Sir?

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

8 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

A model done by an art class in Oxford Sir

LOL... and when you look at any solid matter in this universe you don't really see its true nature.  Your eye doesn't see the vast gaps (relative to the solid bits) that exist in everything.  Neutrinos can pass through lead that is light years thick and never interact with any of it.  So,  your point is exactly what?

 

Oh ... I see... you don't believe in electrons, neutrons and protons because nobody has ever isolated them and YOU can't see them?

 

Obviously there are huge gaps in your logic as well.   LOL