Global Correction

[VegasVic]

A bit of hope....?

New York closed, Friday, November 21, 2008:

Dow 8,046.42 +494.13 (+6.54%)

S&P 500 800.03 +47.59 (+6.32%)

Nasdaq 1,384.35 +68.23 (+5.18%)

But, Citigroup lost another 20% and losing a dramatic 60% in the past 5 trading days and 87% since Jan. 1, 2008.......a company, once solid as a rock with 352,000 employees...

LaoPo

Mostly just a short covering rally in the final 30 minutes. The appointment of Tim Geithner was Obamas first good move. Hillary as Sec. of State is not a bad move but she is a fairly abrasive individual and their were more qualified people on the short list! Wouldn't it be a huge surprise if Obama put McCain in as Sec. of Defence

[flying]

Wouldn't it be a huge surprise if Obama put McCain in as Sec. of Defence

Dang made me spit coffee on my monitor

[bingobongo]

is this really a surprise given i have been mentioning this for over a year now? enjoy..................

Thai Economic Growth Slows Amid Waning Exports, Violent Rallies

The SET Index of stocks is on course for its worst year since the 1997 financial crisis. Consumer confidence is at the lowest level in a year and the baht is close to its weakest level against the dollar in 20 months as exports and tourist arrivals slow and foreign investors sell the nation's assets.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

Edited November 24, 2008 by bingobongo

[bingobongo]

how will the sexpat feed his addiction?

how will the farang manager meet his quota and pay his staff?

how will the farang in the throws of a midlife crisis reconcile this new reality?

how will the traveler get his frequent flier miles with the airport(s) now a giant homeless shelter?

oh the humanity!!!

Economic crisis sweeps deeper into Asia

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081128/bs_af...ld_081128105430

Edited November 28, 2008 by bingobongo

[zorro1]

A bit of hope....?

New York closed, Friday, November 21, 2008:

Dow 8,046.42 +494.13 (+6.54%)

S&P 500 800.03 +47.59 (+6.32%)

Nasdaq 1,384.35 +68.23 (+5.18%)

But, Citigroup lost another 20% and losing a dramatic 60% in the past 5 trading days and 87% since Jan. 1, 2008.......a company, once solid as a rock with 352,000 employees...

LaoPo

Mostly just a short covering rally in the final 30 minutes. The appointment of Tim Geithner was Obamas first good move. Hillary as Sec. of State is not a bad move but she is a fairly abrasive individual and their were more qualified people on the short list! Wouldn't it be a huge surprise if Obama put McCain in as Sec. of Defence

Its a long short rally.

[pkrv]

Hi Naam.

A few weeks ago I posted that I had heard on the BBC a list of countries who risk defaulting on their debt.

One of those I said was Brazil and you said that was rubbish !

But the article lana posted ( Post #1820 ) says

I have an increasingly uneasy feeling that Iceland is the canary in the coalmine. Hungary is struggling.

So are Pakistan, Ukraine, Belarus, Romania and Argentina. Cristina Ferna'ndez de Kirchner, the P

resident of Argentina, took everyone by surprise last week when she announced that the country's

private pension funds (about $26 billion) would be transferred into the state pension system.

The official line is that she is aiming to protect the country's pension funds from the global turmoil. Who is she kidding?

Now, the Federal Reserve Bank has decided to provide emergency loans to Mexico, Brazil, Singapore and South Korea

No one appears safe...........................

no such thing like the FED "providing loans" to any of the countries you mentioned Midas! i am too tired too explain that your perception is completely wrong as i am busy since three days attending gruelling long meetings and conducting heated discussions with bankers, traders and investor friends from all over the world. just came home for a shower, a dip in the pool and then i have to rush back.

looking forward for 23.00 hours when most of them have their mind set on exploring the "lighter side" of Pattaya

Naam are you saying the old war horses are being called up? honest question.

i have a feeling (not sure though) that the opposite applies and those who are called up are young fillies

Ohh god sorry for being so slow - Lambs to the Slaughter.

[VegasVic]

A bit of hope....?

New York closed, Friday, November 21, 2008:

Dow 8,046.42 +494.13 (+6.54%)

S&P 500 800.03 +47.59 (+6.32%)

Nasdaq 1,384.35 +68.23 (+5.18%)

But, Citigroup lost another 20% and losing a dramatic 60% in the past 5 trading days and 87% since Jan. 1, 2008.......a company, once solid as a rock with 352,000 employees...

LaoPo

Mostly just a short covering rally in the final 30 minutes. The appointment of Tim Geithner was Obamas first good move. Hillary as Sec. of State is not a bad move but she is a fairly abrasive individual and their were more qualified people on the short list! Wouldn't it be a huge surprise if Obama put McCain in as Sec. of Defence

Its a long short rally.

Yes, its been a long short rally Just a mini short covering bull run in the middle of a bear market! Sometime next week we will likely see a turning point and the DOW will back off 1000 pts., and then later in the month there will be a Santa Claus rally that will last through the 1st week in January and the market will fall again! Its a great traders market, a real gift during these times

[zorro1]

A bit of hope....?

New York closed, Friday, November 21, 2008:

Dow 8,046.42 +494.13 (+6.54%)

S&P 500 800.03 +47.59 (+6.32%)

Nasdaq 1,384.35 +68.23 (+5.18%)

But, Citigroup lost another 20% and losing a dramatic 60% in the past 5 trading days and 87% since Jan. 1, 2008.......a company, once solid as a rock with 352,000 employees...

LaoPo

Mostly just a short covering rally in the final 30 minutes. The appointment of Tim Geithner was Obamas first good move. Hillary as Sec. of State is not a bad move but she is a fairly abrasive individual and their were more qualified people on the short list! Wouldn't it be a huge surprise if Obama put McCain in as Sec. of Defence

Its a long short rally.

Yes, its been a long short rally Just a mini short covering bull run in the middle of a bear market! Sometime next week we will likely see a turning point and the DOW will back off 1000 pts., and then later in the month there will be a Santa Claus rally that will last through the 1st week in January and the market will fall again! Its a great traders market, a real gift during these times

I threw 20k into BHP at $22. Think I should take it out Monday, talk about beginners luck

Edited November 29, 2008 by zorro1

[BlackJack]

Although the Federal Reserve has become more open over the years, it is still one of the most mysterious Washington institutions.

These photos from files or provided by the Federal Reserve are the people, who hold such power over each American's pocket book: from top left, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Ben Bernanke; Federal Reserve Governor Susan Bies; Federal Reserve Vice Chairman Donald Kohn; Federal Reserve Governor Kevin Warsh; Federal Reserve Governor Randall Kroszner; Michael Moskow, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago; Federal Reserve Governor Frederic Mishkin; Timothy Geithner, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York;(bottom left, LP) William Poole, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis; Cathy Minehan, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston; Thomas Hoenig, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City.

-Daylife

LaoPo

The FBI failed to see the 911 event or some theorists would say different

The FED failed to see the 2008 bust or ignored it more likely.

I have been reading/researching about the FED for that last week and I am in shock that this organisation part government part private banks, has failed to do the most basic thing in their position description. And that is to stop equity bubbles. They actually fueled it by printing more money and lending it out to private banks that were not checking borrowers properly.

"ascertaining whether undue use is being made of bank credit for the speculative carrying of or trading in securities, real estate, or commodities, or for any other purpose inconsistent with the maintenance of sound credit conditions; and, in determining whether to grant or refuse advances, rediscounts, or other credit accommodations"

Under sections 23 24 or the US CODE they all should be in jail and or fined "not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."

On November 7, 2008, Bloomberg News requested details of Fed lending under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act and filed a federal lawsuit seeking to force disclosure. According to a Bloomberg News article:[125]

The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

Having read that i want to bounce off others the following:

where to put your savings and investments (long term low risk), salvage whats left or until this sorts itself out (12 months or more):

gold normally follows oil = oil is down, gold controlled by wall street cartels

term deposits = not like the old days of 8.5% - now 5.5% (Australia) and dropping as of tomorrow

shares = most at an all time low and many not paying dividends / with holding as they need the liquidity

managed funds = most at an all time low

currency = wild rides and high risk - more like musical chairs -

All financial advisors i have spoke to - once you cut through the BS - all agree that this has not happened to the markets before - and that things will get worse once the Federal Reserve Bank of USA comes clean with their massive debts and "print more money" policies. Once this ripples through to the mums and dads (no job no house (minus 35% equity in houses) etc), currencies weaker, asia problems (appearing now), most countries and currencies will feel the pinch.

DOES ANYONE have any alternative investment strategies for us kick around.

[cclub75]

DOES ANYONE have any alternative investment strategies for us kick around.

I do.

Working.

In such environment, you have to invest/buy a business (that can survive the hurricane), and work yourself and being paid for. It's the only way to generate wealth, or at least cope with devaluation/debasement/inflation whatever you wish to call it.

As you said, all the other "vehicules" (stocks, funds, term deposits etc.) are screwed, and for a very long time.

[midas]

I have been reading/researching about the FED for that last week and I am in shock that this organisation part government part private banks, has failed to do the most basic thing in their position description. And that is to stop equity bubbles. They actually fueled it by printing more money and lending it out to private banks that were not checking borrowers properly.

"ascertaining whether undue use is being made of bank credit for the speculative carrying of or trading in securities, real estate, or commodities, or for any other purpose inconsistent with the maintenance of sound credit conditions; and, in determining whether to grant or refuse advances, rediscounts, or other credit accommodations"

Under sections 23 24 or the US CODE they all should be in jail and or fined "not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."

On November 7, 2008, Bloomberg News requested details of Fed lending under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act and filed a federal lawsuit seeking to force disclosure. According to a Bloomberg News article:[125]

The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

Having read that i want to bounce off others the following:

where to put your savings and investments (long term low risk), salvage whats left or until this sorts itself out (12 months or more):

gold normally follows oil = oil is down, gold controlled by wall street cartels

term deposits = not like the old days of 8.5% - now 5.5% (Australia) and dropping as of tomorrow

shares = most at an all time low and many not paying dividends / with holding as they need the liquidity

managed funds = most at an all time low

currency = wild rides and high risk - more like musical chairs -

All financial advisors i have spoke to - once you cut through the BS - all agree that this has not happened to the markets before - and that things will get worse once the Federal Reserve Bank of USA comes clean with their massive debts and "print more money" policies. Once this ripples through to the mums and dads (no job no house (minus 35% equity in houses) etc), currencies weaker, asia problems (appearing now), most countries and currencies will feel the pinch.

DOES ANYONE have any alternative investment strategies for us kick around.

Blackjack I am equally astonished about the true nature of the Federal Reserve.

Maybe if enough Americans got together they could take out a private lawsuit against

members of the Federal Reserve and thereby there would have to be full disclosure of many

things which now remain secret in the courts? It doesn't surprise me because it reminds me

very much on the secretive nature of the nuclear arsenal a certain country( which we cannot name)

is allowed to keep ( even though NO OTHER country enjoys this privilege )

and demonstrates just how powerful some of these figures have become

[bingobongo]

given that the thai economy is going to have massive unemployment in the coming year, those who want to recycle and keep busy, can urinate in plastic bags as is being done by some airport protestors which are to be hurled at the police at a later date

good luck and keep drinking

Edited November 30, 2008 by bingobongo

[AlexLah]

You can drink the urine as it is perfectly sterile.

[BlackJack]

DOES ANYONE have any alternative investment strategies for us kick around.

I do.

Working.

In such environment, you have to invest/buy a business (that can survive the hurricane), and work yourself and being paid for. It's the only way to generate wealth, or at least cope with devaluation/debasement/inflation whatever you wish to call it.

As you said, all the other "vehicules" (stocks, funds, term deposits etc.) are screwed, and for a very long time.

MMMM

I agree in the business side of things

however

the problem is that many are salaried and if no demand for their products the companies lay off 1000's and in many cases close the company. 3/4 of all toy companies started in China closed in the last 12 months

you will see this in Thailand next year (and around the world) as people stop spending, postpone going on holidays, bunker down for the next storm.

also there are millions of retirees and their savings, interest, investments are being wiped out (read some of the posts from retired EXPATS on the loss of value in the dollar pound and AU. Some of those that planned for retirement will possibly go on welfare. The welfare bill will explode and governments will then blow out their budgets.

In Australia the KRUDD government has said states should go into debt in 2009 - further fuel for the fire.

[BlackJack]

I have been reading/researching about the FED for that last week and I am in shock that this organisation part government part private banks, has failed to do the most basic thing in their position description. And that is to stop equity bubbles. They actually fueled it by printing more money and lending it out to private banks that were not checking borrowers properly.

"ascertaining whether undue use is being made of bank credit for the speculative carrying of or trading in securities, real estate, or commodities, or for any other purpose inconsistent with the maintenance of sound credit conditions; and, in determining whether to grant or refuse advances, rediscounts, or other credit accommodations"

Under sections 23 24 or the US CODE they all should be in jail and or fined "not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."

On November 7, 2008, Bloomberg News requested details of Fed lending under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act and filed a federal lawsuit seeking to force disclosure. According to a Bloomberg News article:[125]

The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

Having read that i want to bounce off others the following:

where to put your savings and investments (long term low risk), salvage whats left or until this sorts itself out (12 months or more):

gold normally follows oil = oil is down, gold controlled by wall street cartels

term deposits = not like the old days of 8.5% - now 5.5% (Australia) and dropping as of tomorrow

shares = most at an all time low and many not paying dividends / with holding as they need the liquidity

managed funds = most at an all time low

currency = wild rides and high risk - more like musical chairs -

All financial advisors i have spoke to - once you cut through the BS - all agree that this has not happened to the markets before - and that things will get worse once the Federal Reserve Bank of USA comes clean with their massive debts and "print more money" policies. Once this ripples through to the mums and dads (no job no house (minus 35% equity in houses) etc), currencies weaker, asia problems (appearing now), most countries and currencies will feel the pinch.

DOES ANYONE have any alternative investment strategies for us kick around.

Blackjack I am equally astonished about the true nature of the Federal Reserve.

Maybe if enough Americans got together they could take out a private lawsuit against

members of the Federal Reserve and thereby there would have to be full disclosure of many

things which now remain secret in the courts? It doesn't surprise me because it reminds me

very much on the secretive nature of the nuclear arsenal a certain country( which we cannot name)

is allowed to keep ( even though NO OTHER country enjoys this privilege )

and demonstrates just how powerful some of these figures have become

From WIKI we get

A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the he exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, without any product or service being delivered.

The FED is nothing more that a government private bank pyramid scheme.

the exchange of money for a product. In this case and the LAW the money MUST BE backed up by GOLD and It is not

For the FED to buy back the gold to support its outstanding paper money is impossible.

So the FED simply presses the button and prints more and more. THe USA slips further and now exponentially into debt.

The paper money MUST be guaranteed by a resource. ie gold and the measures taken by the USA FED now (printing more money) are not going to solve the problems.

Many countries are now buying gold to support their country ie China. However, the USA has its foot on the price of gold because they dont have it and to buy it back would further drive the USA into bigger debt.

The USA has leased out their gold to other banks and in some cases other countries.

THey have been doing this for years.

Lease it out, control the price, regular fees coming in.

Perfect until someone wants their gold or paper money back!!!!!!!!!

So the greatest crime of the century is by the biggest pyramid scam the world has ever seen

My bet is that resources (not so much gold) ie metals will be the true worth of a country over the next few years.

in the meantime I am all ears as to what others are doing to ride this one out.

[glyph]

"the money MUST BE backed up by GOLD and It is not..."

The US has been off of the gold standard for a couple of generations. Welcome to the 21st century.

[flying]

"the money MUST BE backed up by GOLD and It is not..."

The US has been off of the gold standard for a couple of generations. Welcome to the 21st century.

Yes sad but true Blackjack. Glyph is right they did drop the gold standard back in Nixons time. But it is also interesting that it broke down when Nixon eliminated the fixed price of gold. Bringing the gold standard to end. At least that is my understanding of it.

What I do not really understand is how the rest of the world allowed our USD to be backed by a wing & a prayer. I know they believe we are fool proof. I know they believe the USD is backed by taxation but is that a solid belief? You would think they would want more from the Worlds #1 currency to which so much is pegged no? I mean so many speak ill of the ninja loans ( no income, no assets mortgages ) that supposedly crushed our house of cards & yet...... Our USD is in effect a ninja currency.

Edited December 1, 2008 by flying

[BlackJack]

"the money MUST BE backed up by GOLD and It is not..."

The US has been off of the gold standard for a couple of generations. Welcome to the 21st century.

Yes sad but true Blackjack. Glyph is right they did drop the gold standard back in Nixons time. But it is also interesting that it broke down when Nixon eliminated the fixed price of gold. Bringing the gold standard to end. At least that is my understanding of it.

What I do not really understand is how the rest of the world allowed our USD to be backed by a wing & a prayer. I know they believe we are fool proof. I know they believe the USD is backed by taxation but is that a solid belief? You would think they would want more from the Worlds #1 currency to which so much is pegged no? I mean so many speak ill of the ninja loans ( no income, no assets mortgages ) that supposedly crushed our house of cards & yet...... Our USD is in effect a ninja currency.

FIAT currency

[flying]

FIAT currency

True but

The terms fiat currency and fiat money relate to types of currency whose usefulness results not from any intrinsic value or guarantee that it can be converted into gold or another currency, but instead from a government's order (fiat) that it must be accepted as a means of payment

So we know our govt orders us to accept this as legal tender. But why does the rest of the world fall for it?

Edited December 1, 2008 by flying

[BlackJack]

"the money MUST BE backed up by GOLD and It is not..."

The US has been off of the gold standard for a couple of generations. Welcome to the 21st century.

The US are master of misdirection.

I was referring to an over view pyramid scam - the FED started in 1913 - in the 70's Nixon further added to the scam as the US needed to print money to support the Vietnam war. SO they de linked the dollars from gold however they still use gold as an asset. Hence the reserves

If the new government (possible) was to bring back the gold standard the price of gold would go through the roof.

Anything is possible -

but we digress

how to save our hard earned dollars and investments now?

is investing in gold part of every good portfolio?

[BlackJack]

FIAT currency

True but

The terms fiat currency and fiat money relate to types of currency whose usefulness results not from any intrinsic value or guarantee that it can be converted into gold or another currency, but instead from a government's order (fiat) that it must be accepted as a means of payment

So we know our govt orders us to accept this as legal tender. But why does the rest of the world fall for it?

same reasons we fell for weapons of mass destruction

[midas]

"the money MUST BE backed up by GOLD and It is not..."

The US has been off of the gold standard for a couple of generations. Welcome to the 21st century.

The US are master of misdirection.

I was referring to an over view pyramid scam - the FED started in 1913 - in the 70's Nixon further added to the scam as the US needed to print money to support the Vietnam war. SO they de linked the dollars from gold however they still use gold as an asset. Hence the reserves

If the new government (possible) was to bring back the gold standard the price of gold would go through the roof.

Anything is possible -

but we digress

how to save our hard earned dollars and investments now?

is investing in gold part of every good portfolio?

But do you see gold continuing to be so important in the future?

It's not so important for industrial use anymore? If I was given the choice between a few bars of

gold in Thailand or three warehouses full of bags of rice ( equivalent value ) I would much prefer

to own the rice ?

[BlackJack]

I am no financial wizard and I am only looking for answers to this current crisis

My reckoning at the moment is if you have a few billionaires and a few millionaires then billionaires can wipe out the millionaires and then get their companies and assets for a song - as was recently the case in the USA.

With all things down now and going further down I would like to save what I have left

I have money in managed funds - resources in fact - however resources were the first thing hit in the credit scam and now 80% OF THIS FUND WAS WIPED OUT.

I asked the managers is it possible to wipe the fund out - i think impossible as its full of Australian blue chip companies.

this is his answer

"as stated in our PDS, 'In extreme market conditions, such as a rapid fall in the market of over 60%, you may lose all of your capital.'

To better understand an manage investment risk, you might consider speaking to your financial adviser.

In other words we dont know talk to someone else

NEXT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[midas]

But this is my point- your reference to managed funds , the gold standard is heavily reliant

on the assumption that they will continue without interruption in the future We are now entering such unchartered territory with the ongoing

religious wars, terrorism, the world financial crisis etc that I would never be so bold

as to predict things will continue the way they have ?

Edited December 1, 2008 by midas

[BlackJack]

according to the USA the FIAT approach works and so if the pound yen AU$ is sinking then we should by US$ ??? or start printing our own

reminds me of the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy when they made the leaf legal tender and everyone over night became fabulously rich

[BlackJack]

looks like the AU$ (plus other currencies) is going down at least 25% against the US$

in buying US$ there are fees and charges and unfortunately NO interest on the account (CBA Australia)

anyone know how to calculate if AU$ drops 25% less fees less charges less interest over 3 months?

sorry I dont know anything about forex trading

[pkrv]

according to the USA the FIAT approach works and so if the pound yen AU$ is sinking then we should by US$ ??? or start printing our own

reminds me of the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy when they made the leaf legal tender and everyone over night became fabulously rich

I too am a big fan - however they actually had a work around that required work! They considered defoliation. The fraction reserve system that the world uses today is far more labour saving, and concentrates wealth in fewer hands (not everyone can set up a bank or make formal loans, note you are forbidden to lend your pension money via a UK Self Invested Personal Pension (SIPP)). Do nothing conjure the money into existence, from nothing, and charge interest on it!

I hope you have seen this 'sort of video' - You MUST watch at least 'the goldsmiths tale' it explains everything. Boy are you going to be pissed off.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

Edited December 1, 2008 by pkrv

[LaoPo]

sorry; double post; something went wrong.

LaoPo

Edited December 1, 2008 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

As Marketwatch describes it:

MORE GLOOM HITS DOW

Drop of 7.7% is fourth biggest; interest rates at new low.

Recession started a year ago...

http://www.marketwatch.com/

Another RED MONDAY on Wall Street:

Dow 8,149.09 -679.95 (-7.70%)

S&P 500 816.21 -80.03 (-8.93%)

Nasdaq 1,398.07 -137.50 (-8.95%)

Sometimes the news makes one wonder....

Citigroup today dropped a dramatic -22.20% in just one day (YTD lost -80% !!) and at the same time the financial giant thinks it's a good plan to buy a SPANISH Highway Operating Firm for $ 10.2 Billion.

Well.....

LaoPo

[bingobongo]

say bye bye to the export dependent asian economies.........

Credit-card industry may cut $2 trillion lines: analyst

The credit card is the second key source of consumer liquidity, the first being jobs, the Oppenheimer & Co analyst noted

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081201/bs_nm/...rch_oppenheimer