2 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Complete and utter tosh.

 

How many times does this point have to be made?

 

Ukraine formally withdrew its pursuit of NATO membership in June 2010, when its parliament passed a law declaring the country non-aligned and neutral: Ukraine did not formally re-apply for NATO membership until September 2022 after Russia invaded its territory.

He actually thought he could end western influence and bring Ukraine back to the Russian sphere. Western influence meaning NATO. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/explainer-why-did-russia-invade-ukraine

Russia has long opposed NATO’s eastward expansion, viewing it as a direct threat to its security.
Ukraine’s growing ties with NATO and the EU were seen by Moscow as unacceptable.

2 minutes ago, Purdey said:

He actually thought he could end western influence and bring Ukraine back to the Russian sphere. Western influence meaning NATO. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/explainer-why-did-russia-invade-ukraine

Russia has long opposed NATO’s eastward expansion, viewing it as a direct threat to its security.
Ukraine’s growing ties with NATO and the EU were seen by Moscow as unacceptable.

So he invaded Crimea, got away with it, hence, nations were woken up to protect themselves by unity, a sensible move, to push the bear back into the bush.....🤗

11 minutes ago, Purdey said:

He actually thought he could end western influence and bring Ukraine back to the Russian sphere. Western influence meaning NATO. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/explainer-why-did-russia-invade-ukraine

Russia has long opposed NATO’s eastward expansion, viewing it as a direct threat to its security.
Ukraine’s growing ties with NATO and the EU were seen by Moscow as unacceptable.

Ukrainians will decide if they want closer ties with EU not Russia.Before Russia invasion in 2021, 67% of UKrainians said they will vote yes in a referendum to join EU. The latest poll after the invasion, revealed 92$ want EU membership by 2030. It is not EU or Nato membership that worried Putin but the flourishing democracy of Ukraine that Russia fear most. 

 

https://www.euractiv.com/news/ukraine-92-want-eu-membership-by-2030/

1 hour ago, Autocan said:

Hmm, nonsense.

 

Ukraine declared itself permanently neutral in its 1990 Declaration of Sovereignty (post-USSR), including the principle of not joining military alliances. This was enshrined in its 1996 Constitution.

 

Then, in Dec. 2014 (post-coup) Ukraine's parliament voted to join Nato. This goal was further included in their Constitution in 2018.

 

What nonsense? The nonsense is spouted by those who try to distort events and the timeline to excuse Russian aggression.

 

2008:  NATO said that Ukraine would eventually join the alliance.

June 2010: Ukrainian parliament voted to abandon the goal of NATO membership and reaffirm its neutrality

February 2014: Maidan revolution 

March 2014:  Russia annexes Crimea,

August 2014: Russia invades eastern Ukraine

December 2014 Ukraine's parliament voted to seek NATO membership

February 2022: Russia invades Ukraine 

 

Based on that timeline, what was the justification for Russia's annexation of Crimea and invasion of eastern Ukraine? The Maidan revolution?  This had nothing to do with NATO membership and everything to do with Yanukovych's refusal to enact the mandate on which he was elected i.e. to sign the EU - Ukraine Association Agreement.

 

And what about the invasion in 2022? What aggressive act by NATO was the catalyst for this event? That's right; there wasn't one. Ahh but, the Russian apologists say, Ukraine did state that they wanted NATO membership in December 2014. Yes, following Russia's actions in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. I'd say that was a fair enough response given Russia's naked aggression, wouldn't you?

24 minutes ago, Purdey said:

He actually thought he could end western influence and bring Ukraine back to the Russian sphere. Western influence meaning NATO. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/explainer-why-did-russia-invade-ukraine

Russia has long opposed NATO’s eastward expansion, viewing it as a direct threat to its security.
Ukraine’s growing ties with NATO and the EU were seen by Moscow as unacceptable.

 

 

Ukraine's relationship with NATO is a red herring. This is all about Ukraine - an independent, sovereign nation - democratically deciding that it saw its economic future with the EU rather than Russia. 

 

And you think that this decision therefore justifies continual and continuous Russian aggression towards Ukraine and the invasions in 2014 and 2022?

6 hours ago, Purdey said:

Why would Putin negotiate with NATO? It was the threat of Ukraine joining NATO that led to the invasion.

Putin also give a reason of Ukraine full of Nazis and when he moved all his troops near the border he thought he could use the old " Were only on manouvers " another lie.

20 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

Ukraine's relationship with NATO is a red herring. This is all about Ukraine - an independent, sovereign nation - democratically deciding that it saw its economic future with the EU rather than Russia. 

 

And you think that this decision therefore justifies continual and continuous Russian aggression towards Ukraine and the invasions in 2014 and 2022?

Well said Raymond.............

39 minutes ago, RayC said:

This is all about Ukraine - an independent, sovereign nation ...

Independent, sovereign nations don't have their cabinet chosen by an enormously fat woman from US State. Here's V. Nuland doing just that right after the CIA-organized coup in Kiev:

 

 

Ever since Ukraine's been run by kleptocratic Nazi puppets and armed and funded solely to attack Russia. It's been a proxy war between the West and Russia since 2014, with everything from cash to to intel to weapons coming from the West.

 

Ukraine? It's providing the corpses, 2 million of its men to date. Sovereign? My left buttock cheek. Independent? My right buttock cheek.

1 hour ago, Autocan said:

Independent, sovereign nations don't have their cabinet chosen by an enormously fat woman from US State. Here's V. Nuland doing just that right after the CIA-organized coup in Kiev:

 

 

Ever since Ukraine's been run by kleptocratic Nazi puppets and armed and funded solely to attack Russia. It's been a proxy war between the West and Russia since 2014, with everything from cash to to intel to weapons coming from the West.

 

Ukraine? It's providing the corpses, 2 million of its men to date. Sovereign? My left buttock cheek. Independent? My right buttock cheek.

 

Oh, please. This nonsense is re-gugutated as often as the Ukraine/ NATO membership rubbish.

 

How many more times does it have to be pointed out that the Maidan revolution was a popular uprising by the Ukrainian people against a President who - under pressure from Moscow - refused to implement the main pillar of the mandate on which he was elected i.e. the signing of the EU - Ukraine Association Agreement.

 

The Yatsenyuk government which replaced the Yanukovych administration was elected by the Ukrainian parliament and later by popular vote, not by the US. Did the US government have a preference re the replacement for Yanukovych? Almost certainly. Did the US instigate a coup? No. Did the US pick the Ukrainian cabinet? No.

 

To infer that this war is the fault of the West and that the blessed Vlad is simply a good guy fighting Nazis defies belief. I hope that you have left room on your buttock cheeks and the rest of your torso for these ridiculous conspiracy theories. 

On 12/3/2025 at 3:32 AM, johng said:

 

Russia will carry on till their objectives are met  Trump is kinda  

irrelevant  anyway now as Ukraine and Europe have set the scene for continued war..maybe Trump wants to officially join the war against Russia but somehow I doubt it.

What are the objectives?  The Denazification of Ukraine?  Save the Russians in Donbas?  To prevent the NATO expansions, which already failed?   But, this was all in self defense. 

2 hours ago, Autocan said:

Ever since Ukraine's been run by kleptocratic Nazi puppets and armed and funded solely to attack Russia.

When did Ukraine attack Russia? 

6 minutes ago, TedG said:

When did Ukraine attack Russia? 

By Western / Nato  definition in 2014 due to the Eastern Ukrainian rejection of governance by a western installed Government leading to appeals to Russian adoption and recognition of independence which resulted in Ukrainian forces  firing on the  Ukrainian dissenters. 

Eventually Russia directly entered the conflict after border postures were not taken seriously in the attempt to deter NATO backed assumption of dominant outcome.

Initial disaster in attempting to force a quick concession to demands evolved into the prolonged persistence typical of Russian resolve still not broken by allies of opportunity providing sufficient resistance always short of counter victory .

Moscow has no cause to concede because it does not operate as the NATO expects in accommodating a failing US hegemony.

 

5 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

By Western / Nato  definition in 2014 due to the Eastern Ukrainian rejection of governance by a western installed Government leading to appeals to Russian adoption and recognition of independence which resulted in Ukrainian forces  firing on the  Ukrainian dissenters. 

Eventually Russia directly entered the conflict after border postures were not taken seriously in the attempt to deter NATO backed assumption of dominant outcome.

Initial disaster in attempting to force a quick concession to demands evolved into the prolonged persistence typical of Russian resolve still not broken by allies of opportunity providing sufficient resistance always short of counter victory .

Moscow has no cause to concede because it does not operate as the NATO expects in accommodating a failing US hegemony.

 

Was this seeded by Russian with their little green men? 

On 12/3/2025 at 4:59 AM, Eric Loh said:

If Trump has the moral guts, he should impose secondary sanctions on BRICS and those countries that still buy oil and gas from Russia. Hit them with high tariffs. All these proposals were in the Sanctioning Russia Act but he TACO. 

 

You again forget that it was Russia who invaded Ukraine. They are the war mongers. Ukraine is just defending their sovereignty. Ukraine seek peace while Russia seek war. Please get this right for the umpteenth times that we need to remind you.  

 

You think brics gives a toss about the west's rules or sanctions ?

 

31 minutes ago, blaze master said:

 

You think brics gives a toss about the west's rules or sanctions ?

 

Brics is the union of <deleted>ty counties.  

1 minute ago, TedG said:

Brics is the union of <deleted>ty counties.  

 

Brics is slowly catching up. Gdp and reserve currency numbers tell the story. They might be shhhh countries but they will soon overtake the west in numbers.

2 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

Brics is slowly catching up. Gdp and reserve currency numbers tell the story. They might be shhhh countries but they will soon overtake the west in numbers.

 

BRICS is no more than a catchy acronym. As a group, it has no structure, constitution, values, etc; in short, there is nothing to bind this disparate group of nations together.

 

That is not to say that the individual countries are unimportant. China certainly is; India increasing so. Russia not so much.

8 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

BRICS is no more than a catchy acronym. As a group, it has no structure, constitution, values, etc; in short, there is nothing to bind this disparate group of nations together.

 

That is not to say that the individual countries are unimportant. China certainly is; India increasing so. Russia not so much.

 

If you say so. Go back to la la land give me a call when you want to take this seriously. 

10 hours ago, TedG said:

Was this seeded by Russian with their little green men? 

Are you confirming your dubious grasp of reality?

27 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Are you confirming your dubious grasp of reality?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26532154

14 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

You think brics gives a toss about the west's rules or sanctions ?

 

NATO countries are BRIC countries's main trade partners.....

11 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

If you say so. Go back to la la land give me a call when you want to take this seriously. 

It's you in la la land. 

 

BRICS is not a trade zone, not a political alliance, and also not a military alliance. It's a kind of club like G7.

 

On top of it, BRICS countres main economic partners are NATO countries, starting with the US and the EU.

5 hours ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Are you confirming your dubious grasp of reality?

The Donbass rebelion was led by Russian FSB operatives, previously actve in Chechnya and Transnitria.

 

For example, this nice guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

11 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

If you say so. Go back to la la land give me a call when you want to take this seriously. 

 

Top 15 countries by GDP in 2024 (Note: No cherry picking. 1st site in my Google search)

 

2024 
United States: $25.43 trillion
China: $14.72 trillion
Japan: $4.25 trillion
Germany: $3.85 trillion
India: $3.41 trillion 
United Kingdom: $2.67 trillion  
France: $2.63 trillion
Russia: $2.24 trillion
Canada: $2.16 trillion
Italy: $2.04 trillion
Brazil: $1.92 trillion
Australia: $1.69 trillion
South Korea: $1.67 trillion
Mexico: $1.46 trillion
Spain: $1.41 trillion 

(Source: Safeguard Global)

 

11 non-BRICS out the 15 top nations suggests that BRICS countries' have a lot of catching up to do. 

 

So what bit of my contention that BRICS is no more than a catchy acronym for a loose grouping with no structure is incorrect?

 

Let me know when you have a coherent counter argument.

43 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Top 15 countries by GDP in 2024 (Note: No cherry picking. 1st site in my Google search)

 

2024 
United States: $25.43 trillion
China: $14.72 trillion
Japan: $4.25 trillion
Germany: $3.85 trillion
India: $3.41 trillion 
United Kingdom: $2.67 trillion  
France: $2.63 trillion
Russia: $2.24 trillion
Canada: $2.16 trillion
Italy: $2.04 trillion
Brazil: $1.92 trillion
Australia: $1.69 trillion
South Korea: $1.67 trillion
Mexico: $1.46 trillion
Spain: $1.41 trillion 

(Source: Safeguard Global)

 

11 non-BRICS out the 15 top nations suggests that BRICS countries' have a lot of catching up to do. 

 

So what bit of my contention that BRICS is no more than a catchy acronym for a loose grouping with no structure is incorrect?

 

Let me know when you have a coherent counter argument.

You could add the EU with $19.4 trillion as it is the relevant entity for trade.

 

Only US + EU has a larger GDP than the whole BRICS.

 

It confirms how dumb Trump is, for antagonizing the EU, instead of collaborating with the EU to counter China (which is the only real power inside BRICS)

It's all a distraction allowing China to continue on its path to destroy the west and the middle east.

6 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Top 15 countries by GDP in 2024 (Note: No cherry picking. 1st site in my Google search)

 

2024 
United States: $25.43 trillion
China: $14.72 trillion
Japan: $4.25 trillion
Germany: $3.85 trillion
India: $3.41 trillion 
United Kingdom: $2.67 trillion  
France: $2.63 trillion
Russia: $2.24 trillion
Canada: $2.16 trillion
Italy: $2.04 trillion
Brazil: $1.92 trillion
Australia: $1.69 trillion
South Korea: $1.67 trillion
Mexico: $1.46 trillion
Spain: $1.41 trillion 

(Source: Safeguard Global)

 

11 non-BRICS out the 15 top nations suggests that BRICS countries' have a lot of catching up to do. 

 

So what bit of my contention that BRICS is no more than a catchy acronym for a loose grouping with no structure is incorrect?

 

Let me know when you have a coherent counter argument.

 

You simply dont get it. Carry on.

7 hours ago, candide said:

It's you in la la land. 

 

BRICS is not a trade zone, not a political alliance, and also not a military alliance. It's a kind of club like G7.

 

On top of it, BRICS countres main economic partners are NATO countries, starting with the US and the EU.

 

If you say so.

2 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

If you say so.

Feel free to provide facts, for a change....🙂

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Feel free to provide facts, for a change....🙂

 

Feel free to not reply to me.