4 hours ago, Effective altruism said:

Please explain which laws allow U.S. citizens to interfere with law enforcement.

To stick with the topic...

Now hearing that bodycams were worn (not sure how many). Let's see what comes out if anything actually does.

4 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

To stick with the topic...

Through the democratic process of free and fair elections not through organized anarchy.

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Through the democratic process of free and fair elections not through organized anarchy.

Emmm - off topic.

Repeat:

1 minute ago, Schoggibueb said:

Emmm - off topic.

Repeat:

This means through elections not through insurrection and the forceful overthrow of the sitting government.

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

This means through elections not through insurrection and the forceful overthrow of the sitting government.

"... it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it."

As you are an expert in law, constitution and the declaration of independance you know this document.

Or maybe not. In that case you would be excused.

4 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

"... it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it."

As you are an expert in law, constitution and the declaration of independance you know this document.

Or maybe not. In that case you would be excused.

Ah! Yes I am wrong.

I got AI to clarify.

• Alter: To amend, modify, or change the structure and policies of the existing government, particularly when it no longer serves the public good or becomes destructive.

• Abolish: To entirely destroy, eliminate, or discard an existing, tyrannical government.

• The Right/Duty: The Declaration emphasizes that this is not only a right but a duty when a "long train of abuses" points to absolute despotism.

• Context: This principle, rooted in Enlightenment philosophy, justifies replacing a government that has broken its social contract with the people. It was the justification for the American colonies separating from King George III's rule.

• Replacement: The phrase is immediately followed by the necessity to "institute new Government" that better secures the safety and happiness of the people. 

I draw your attention to "absolute despotism".

Absolute despotism is a form of government where a single ruler or small group holds total, unrestricted power, exercising authority arbitrarily and often cruelly without legal limitations or constitutional checks. It represents the extreme opposite of democracy, focusing on complete control, tyranny, and the suppression of individual rights.

This obviously is not now or never has been the case with any federal government in the history of the United States of America.

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I draw your attention to "absolute despotism".

Absolute despotism is a form of government where a single ruler or small group holds total, unrestricted power, exercising authority arbitrarily and often cruelly without legal limitations or constitutional checks. It represents the extreme opposite of democracy, focusing on complete control, tyranny, and the suppression of individual rights.

Thank you for the confirmation.

Hits the nail right on the head.

1 minute ago, Schoggibueb said:

Thank you for the confirmation.

Hits the nail right on the head.

Hits what nail on the head. Do you not understand the definition of absolute despotism.

1 hour ago, Fact said:

If they are "undocumented", how do you know this?

Undocumented immigrants are required by law to pay federal taxes on any income earned in the U.S. Many do so using an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), which is issued by the IRS for tax processing purposes to individuals not eligible for a Social Security number (SSN). 

• Income Taxes: Many file federal income tax returns using an ITIN.

• Payroll Taxes: Federal payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare are often automatically withheld from their paychecks by employers.

Undocumented immigrants pay a variety of state and local taxes:

Sales and Excise Taxes: paid when purchasing everyday goods and services.

Property Taxes: paid by undocumented immigrants who own homes directly, and by renters indirectly through their rent payments.

Income Taxes: In states with a state income tax, undocumented immigrants pay these taxes, often using their ITIN when filing returns. In fact, in 40 states, undocumented immigrants pay higher effective state and local tax rates than the top 1% of households in those states. 

do undocumented migrants in the us pay federal, state and local taxes? - Google Search

Speculation is growing in the wake of another fatal shooting in Minnesota that the Department of Homeland Security is hiring pardoned Jan. 6 rioters as immigration agents.

Border Patrol commander Greg Bovino confirmed that the two agents who shot 37-year-old Alex Pretti were already back on duty, but not in Minneapolis, and has refused to identify them. Journalists who have covered pro-Donald Trump militant groups suspect some of the agents involved in immigration crackdowns are drawn from those extremist ranks.

"Because I filmed the Proud Boys for years, because I was in Charlottesville and at the January 6 riot, and spent five months filming the ICE agents in Federal Plaza I’m convinced they are the same people," said independent visual journalist Sandi Bachom. "It’s impossible to find a whole new army of aggressive, violent, immature, Call to Duty Trump sycophants. That’s why they’re masked. People are gonna start figuring it out. That’s why he pardoned them all."

"I remember thinking when I got back from January 6, well Hitler had an army and Trump doesn’t," Bachom added. "He does now."

Speculation grows ICE hired Jan. 6 rioters to be in 'Trump's army'

"Anyone else notice how the Proud Boys, Three Percenters, Oath Keepers, Patriot Front, etc. were always out there marching to support and protect law enforcement...until recently?" asked University of Washington biologist Carl T. Bergstrom. "They're never out there supporting ICE. It's so odd, like Superman and Clark Kent."

Alex Pretti's co-workers in moments of silence to remember and honour his life

48 minutes ago, bannork said:

Alex Pretti's co-workers in moments of silence to remember and honour his life

who cares?

do you expect people to break down in tears so their emotions will get in the way of facts?

52 minutes ago, bannork said:

Alex Pretti's co-workers in moments of silence to remember and honour his life

Bad news for you anarchy sympathizers.

Looks like Tim Walz has caved. The Minneapolis police has stepped in and is arresting the protesters.

Tim Walz has used these useful idiots like puppets and now decides to throw them under the bus.

9 hours ago, bannork said:

• Murder Conviction Rates (Texas 2016 per 100,000):

  • Native-born Americans: 3.2

  • Illegal Immigrants: 1.8

  • Legal Immigrants: 0.9 

  including legal migrants in the murder figures for Texas, for example, illegals committed 30.5% of the murders in 2016.

  So yes, more people, more murders. More activity in the economy too.

  The removal of approximately 8.3 million undocumented workers (about 5% of the U.S. workforce) would result in a substantial contraction of the economy: 

  • GDP Decline: Estimates suggest U.S. GDP would shrink by 2.6% to 7.4% over the next decade, representing a loss of $1.1 trillion to $1.7 trillion. For context, the U.S. GDP shrank by 4.3% during the Great Recession.

  • Sector Disruptions: Agriculture and construction would be hit hardest, potentially losing 14% to 25% of their respective workforces, leading to food price inflation as high as 9%.

  • Secondary Job Losses: Research suggests that for every 1 million undocumented workers deported, roughly 88,000 U.S.-born workers could lose their jobs due to business closures and reduced consumer demand. 

• The U.S. economy would lose the following annual tax contributions previously paid by undocumented households: 

  • Total Taxes: Approximately $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes.

  • Social Safety Net: Contributions include $22.6 billion to Social Security and $5.7 billion to Medicare.

  • Spending Power: A loss of roughly $256.8 billion in annual household spending power. 

  However, the Trump admin argues that removals of illegals will eventually lower housing costs and increase real wages for blue-collar American workers, with some reports claiming real wage growth of 4.2% in 2025. 

how much would the removal of all illegal immigrants cost the US economy? - Google Search

The study that showing that half the rate of native-born citizens for violent and drug crimes, and roughly one-quarter the rate for property crimes is a phony two-year study in only a small part of the state. It's bullsh*t.

Apprehending and or convicting illegal aliens is much more difficult than citizens, and only about a third of murders result in convictions, assuming your numbers are correct, illegal by aliens murder about 7 per 100,000, so deporting a million saves 70 lives.

In any event, every crime committed by an illegal alien is a crime that would not be committed but for illegal immigration.

Why do you suppose Texas is the only state that tracks criminal status by immigration status?

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

who cares?

do you expect people to break down in tears so their emotions will get in the way of facts?

People with a heart care.

12 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Obviously I am ignorant of your kill rate as you won't say what it is, I was hoping it would be impressive , maybe its not , were you not a very good shot?

Or were you, in reality, rejected due to your "spurs" just like anybody else suffering that condition was rejected , including your president,, so don't feel too bad, at least you're in good company

I wasn't rejected and as a matter of fact I was awarded an expert marksman medal and I spent several years in and around VN. I worked with and trained ARVN troops regularly for 10 years total.

13 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Oh no,

Recent ICE Enforcement Actions

In Fiscal Year 2023, ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) arrested 73,822 noncitizens with criminal histories. The associated charges and convictions for this group included: 

• Homicide: 1,713 charges or convictions.

• Sexual Assault/Sex Offenses: 4,390 charges or convictions. 

Super deflection, master class.

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

People with a heart care.

People with a heart AND half a brain care that Tim Walz finally came to his senses and sent the police and these idiot anarchists are finally being arrested.

14 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

How is deporting illegal aliens against the US Constitution?

deporting illegals is not against the US Constitution but denying them due process IAW the Articles of the US Constitution prior to deporting them is against the Constitution. Suggest you read that document before you continue claiming false data.

Just now, Presnock said:

deporting illegals is not against the US Constitution but denying them due process IAW the Articles of the US Constitution prior to deporting them is against the Constitution. Suggest you read that document before you continue claiming false data.

Except that they are not being denied due process, that is a myth propagated by the left.

Every illegal alien that has an order of removal issued against them, has had all the due process they are entitled to.

Have there been a few mistakes? Sure. But by and large, ICE is acting legally and apprehensions and deportations are legal.y

Pepper-spraying and using force to deter "protesters" interfering with ICE is also legal, and any "protester" that touches an ICE officer has committed a felony.

14 hours ago, Yagoda said:

You are wrong. 18 USC 1325, and I challenge you to show us show us otherwise.

If one wants to quote US laws, then suggest you read all the laws pertaining to that subject. Read USC1325 and 1326. and, as usual with too many people here, they only print out portions of laws making it seem that others are wrong when in fact many of us do check before print false or misleading information. And on top of that, the current US administratopm seems IMHO many times to do as you do and misinterprets laws and thus courts are calling them on that and issuing injunctions against the govt immigration activity.

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Except that they are not being denied due process, that is a myth propagated by the left.

Every illegal alien that has an order of removal issued against them, has had all the due process they are entitled to.

Have there been a few mistakes? Sure. But by and large, ICE is acting legally and apprehensions and deportations are legal.y

Pepper-spraying and using force to deter "protesters" interfering with ICE is also legal, and any "protester" that touches an ICE officer has committed a felony.

again, you quote lies too IMHO based on the news I see and read about. There have been and are current court cases ongoing if you care to check.

15 hours ago, dinsdale said:

So you'd be interested in this then.

Another silly guessing post from the master guesser........🙄

Plus, I see Trump, your hero, has sacked the ICE commander over the deaths of the innocent, now don't weep, it is another 180 by your leader.....

So, stand down chap, take note of your hero Trump being cornered, just like you.......😉

18 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Except that they are not being denied due process, that is a myth propagated by the left.

Every illegal alien that has an order of removal issued against them, has had all the due process they are entitled to.

Have there been a few mistakes? Sure. But by and large, ICE is acting legally and apprehensions and deportations are legal.y

Pepper-spraying and using force to deter "protesters" interfering with ICE is also legal, and any "protester" that touches an ICE officer has committed a felony.

Order of removal based solely on narrow administrative warrant and not a judge warrant is against the 4th amendment protection. It is extrajudiciary actions often in violation of due process. Thought you know that but chose to obfuscate.

12 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Sure did ...I hope they bring in mass immigration so America ends up with lower wages , I hope millions arrive ,I agree with you NN , open those borders up please

You'll look long, hard, and, ultimately in vain trying to find a single post where I stated I am for open borders. But, feel free to give it a try. I am for secure borders, and I think a large majority of Americans are, as well. I am for illegal aliens being found and deported, once they have been processed through the legal system.

What I am NOT for is randomly stopping people and demanding they prove they are citizens. What I am NOT for is the brutal tactics being used by ICE agents, and peaceful neighborhoods being turned into war zones with thousands of combat-attired and heavily-armed agents roaming the streets. What I am NOT for is ICE agents breaking the law, including the 4th Amendment, in order to make a ridiculous arrest quota. Short of the quota? Well, let's just arrest the next 100 non-whites we come upon--it will eventually get sorted out and if they are citizens they'll be back home in a few days. Hey, made the quota! It's Miller time!

And, of course, what I am NOT for is American citizens being murdered on American streets by heavily-armed, poorly trained, masked agents dressed in combat uniforms like they are going to war. Illegal aliens with deportation orders need to be located and deported. But, not this way. Better ways were used in the past and America should return to those ways. The latest, horrible murder may have brought about a 'tipping point'. Let's hope so.

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Except that they are not being denied due process, that is a myth propagated by the left.

Every illegal alien that has an order of removal issued against them, has had all the due process they are entitled to.

Have there been a few mistakes? Sure. But by and large, ICE is acting legally and apprehensions and deportations are legal.y

Pepper-spraying and using force to deter "protesters" interfering with ICE is also legal, and any "protester" that touches an ICE officer has committed a felony.

Got it. Step 1. Violently throw the protester to the ground. Step 2. Note that the protester has 'touched' the agent during Step 1 and has committed a felony. Step 3. Arrest the protester for 'touching' the agent. Step 4. Murder anybody who comes to the aid of a protester violently thrown to the ground by an ICE agent, especially any nurses, who are trained to give aid.

Step5 Tim walz caves in to Mr Trump , and the police are now doing their jobs, It looks like things will now start to become rather unpleasant for the anarchist scum who will now have to face real consequences for their treasonous behaviour.

These riots and the unfortunate deaths could have been so easily avoided if the police had been mobilised earlier, Walz has blood on his hands, and now he has effectively thrown the anarchists he enabled right under a bus,

This is absolutely beautiful, the rioters are looking at all sorts of grief now, Prison time, Debanking, and no fly orders are now looming Oh deary deary me lol

1 minute ago, Bday Prang said:

Step5 Tim walz caves in to Mr Trump , and the police are now doing their jobs, It looks like things will now start to become rather unpleasant for the anarchist scum who will now have to face real consequences for their treasonous behaviour.

These riots and the unfortunate deaths could have been so easily avoided if the police had been mobilised earlier, Walz has blood on his hands, and now he has effectively thrown the anarchists he enabled right under a bus,

This is absolutely beautiful, the rioters are looking at all sorts of grief now, Prison time, Debanking, and no fly orders are now looming Oh deary deary me lol

You blame Walz because you have been buried, Walz has "blood on his hands", don't be daft...😬

ICE agents did the executions; the blood is on their hands, but you are too stupid to see it.

Why not just blame Trump for his ICE cock-up, had to sack his head man over the killings that YOU supported.............

Did you forget..........? 🤫

Some offensive posts with personal insults have been removed.