25 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

Your dementia playing up again Jonny?

Not at all.

1. Where in that post do I say Farage is my hero? I said I support him on Brexit. I do not support him on everything. Try not to see everything in black and white. It's a very simplistic way of thinking. You can do better.

2. Farage has been drifting to the left in recent months. Recruiting old Tory failures. His wrist is getting limper. I have no desire to support the Conservatives 2.0. I've had enough of fake right-wing parties.

3. Rather than continuing to defend the indefensible with politicians that take the wrong path like you guys have with Starmer, I keep an open mind.

4. Like Farage did with the Tories over Brexit, Rupert Lowe is probably going to force Farage to keep on the right path. We've seen in in the past few days with Farage announcing an ICE style agency since Restore launched. If that pattern continues, he will have my support again.

Let's see the direction that Reform take. In my opinion Restore will keep them from drifting too far left.

4 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

Yet another reason that Brexit was such short-sighted folly. An isolated small island state, with crowded cities, that imports 40% of its food, in a world being forced into protectionist politically-driven tendancies. What could possibly go wrong?

If they supported farmers instead of forcing them into suicide with inheritance tax we could produce much more of our own food.

23 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

If they supported farmers instead of forcing them into suicide with inheritance tax we could produce much more of our own food.

Yes, the EU always stopped British farmers from producing food.

They especially had it in for British dairy.

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Sensationalist article. The whole of Europe is in the same boat.

Not really!

https://www.agriculture-strategies.eu/en/2024/10/european-food-sovereignty-what-do-the-numbers-say

45 minutes ago, candide said:

Not really!

https://www.agriculture-strategies.eu/en/2024/10/european-food-sovereignty-what-do-the-numbers-say

That's the whole of the EU. In case of a disaster, transport could shut down. A consequence of the world we live in. Accept it and move on, or grow your own vegetables on the balcony.

The UK being an island makes it more isolated, agree there. But the principle is the same IMO.

21 hours ago, simon43 said:

They could adopt the methods used in Singapore - vertical farms.

Plus kick out all the millions of immigrants to reduce the population to a more sustainable level

A 'plague'of anthrax or similar would also help to reduce the population.......

Genetically modify anthrax so that it only kills immigrants; that way the costs of deportation are avoided🤦

Sorry must go. Rupert Lowe is on the line. I expect that he's about to offer me the choice of being Chancellor, Home Secretary or Minister for Science in Restore's shadow cabinet.

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Too many mouths to feed.

Hopefully Restore UK will fix that.

I’m pleased to see you’ve switched your allegiance, a rightwing split is another good thing.

Now extrapolate that to all the right-wingers who actually do vote and will have to decide how far right they want to vote.

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yes, the EU always stopped British farmers from producing food.

They especially had it in for British dairy.

Utter nonsense.

Supermarkets are the culprits on British dairy.

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m pleased to see you’ve switched your allegiance, a rightwing split is another good thing.

I'm pleased to see you're making things up again.

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Now extrapolate that to all the right-wingers who actually do vote and will have to decide how far right they want to vote.

It's possible the vote could be split. I think more likely is they won't stand against each other in constituencies where a vote split could allow Labour in by default with such a small number of votes again.

Let's see if Corbyn and Sultana can get beyond arguing about a party name and form something to attract the ultra loony faction of the left away from Labour.

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I'm pleased to see you're making things up again.

It's possible the vote could be split. I think more likely is they won't stand against each other in constituencies where a vote split could allow Labour in by default with such a small number of votes again.

Let's see if Corbyn and Sultana can get beyond arguing about a party name and form something to attract the ultra loony faction of the left away from Labour.

There’s no love lost between Lowe and Farage.

I doubt they’ll cut a deal to stand down.

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Not at all.

1. Where in that post do I say Farage is my hero? I said I support him on Brexit. I do not support him on everything. Try not to see everything in black and white. It's a very simplistic way of thinking. You can do better.

2. Farage has been drifting to the left in recent months. Recruiting old Tory failures. His wrist is getting limper. I have no desire to support the Conservatives 2.0. I've had enough of fake right-wing parties.

3. Rather than continuing to defend the indefensible with politicians that take the wrong path like you guys have with Starmer, I keep an open mind.

4. Like Farage did with the Tories over Brexit, Rupert Lowe is probably going to force Farage to keep on the right path. We've seen in in the past few days with Farage announcing an ICE style agency since Restore launched. If that pattern continues, he will have my support again.

Let's see the direction that Reform take. In my opinion Restore will keep them from drifting too far left.

Reform will put on a facade of staying on the right, but if they get in they'll do a Starmer u-turn on most of their promised policies. Farage the delusional, narcisistic gobschite he is, should never be trusted. I'd go with Restore or Advance.

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There’s no love lost between Lowe and Farage.

I doubt they’ll cut a deal to stand down.

Wonders never cease. I actually agree with you on something. I'm going to buy a lottery ticket tomorrow.

On 2/25/2026 at 6:03 PM, 0ffshore360 said:

He has a well paid job as a University Lecturer in Social Sciences.

I am slightly amused that this information has resulted in laugh emojis.

Social Sciences encompasses social engineering .

Perhaps some either deny such exists .

More fool them I say!

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There’s no love lost between Lowe and Farage.

I doubt they’ll cut a deal to stand down.

Politics isn't about personal friendship.

On 2/25/2026 at 3:53 PM, 3NUMBAS said:

They can survive on hamburgers surely

Donald Trump does

On 2/24/2026 at 11:17 PM, BritManToo said:

From GOV.UK

"Therefore, the UK does not produce everything it eats or eat everything it produces. In 2020, the UK imported 46% of the food it consumed. Having a diverse range of international sources makes food supply more resilient, as if the production or output of one source is disrupted, other sources can meet demand."

"The UK relies on imports for roughly 40% of its food."

The initial comment was in respect to western countries. As a group, they are indeed food exporters.

You now wish to use the UK data. Fine. On the surface, you refer to the UK in 2020 importing 46% of the food it consumes. That number has nothing to do with self sufficiency or core food groups needed to survive. Those imports consist primarily of seasonal fruits and vegetables and exotic foods not native to the UK. For example, the UK imports 750,000+ tonnes of rice at a market value in excess of £1 billion. This is a reflection in large part of the dietary preferences of a segment of its population. It is not a critical import to survive because the UK is self sufficient in other grains. The UK has chosen to concentrate on certain key agricultural segments, while relying on the EU for almost 3/4 of its imported food. The reality is that if tomorrow, the UK was cut off from the rest of the world, it would be able to survive. It could pivot to greenhouse and indoor growing The selection might not be abundant, but could be done. It isn't done now because it is cheaper to import the food. However, the technology is available today to make it viable.

I never saw riots during that first lockdown, March 2020, and Sainsburys was down to a packet of frozen prawns. We'd just live on Pot Noodles and sardines.

On 2/27/2026 at 4:41 AM, Patong2021 said:

The initial comment was in respect to western countries. As a group, they are indeed food exporters.

You now wish to use the UK data. Fine. On the surface, you refer to the UK in 2020 importing 46% of the food it consumes. That number has nothing to do with self sufficiency or core food groups needed to survive. Those imports consist primarily of seasonal fruits and vegetables and exotic foods not native to the UK. For example, the UK imports 750,000+ tonnes of rice at a market value in excess of £1 billion. This is a reflection in large part of the dietary preferences of a segment of its population. It is not a critical import to survive because the UK is self sufficient in other grains. The UK has chosen to concentrate on certain key agricultural segments, while relying on the EU for almost 3/4 of its imported food. The reality is that if tomorrow, the UK was cut off from the rest of the world, it would be able to survive. It could pivot to greenhouse and indoor growing The selection might not be abundant, but could be done. It isn't done now because it is cheaper to import the food. However, the technology is available today to make it viable.

Fair response. Which AI engine did that?

You could add that imports of animal feed, we'd eat a lot less pork and chicken, and eat a lot more grass fed animals (beef, lamb). We wouldn't starve, but there would be an increase in deficiency diseases, like Ricketts, Derby Throat, and likely an increase in infectious disease, as a result of weakened immune systems.

On 2/26/2026 at 6:41 AM, RayC said:

Genetically modify anthrax so that it only kills immigrants; that way the costs of deportation are avoided🤦

Sorry must go. Rupert Lowe is on the line. I expect that he's about to offer me the choice of being Chancellor, Home Secretary or Minister for Science in Restore's shadow cabinet.

The UK sees 1-3 cases of Anthrax per 4-5 years, mostly subcutaneous. Its a disease associated with the farmyard. We had some spikes of inhalational anthrax, which is more serious, among heroin users about 10 years ago.The theory is that the drug was being cut with contaminated bone meal at some point in the narcotic's smuggling journey. There was a strange case in the Scottish borders of a buddhist itinerant drum maker dying from it. They only figured it out after he had been cremated, and his home stripped of keep sakes following a wake with hundreds of mourners in attendance. He lived alone in a farm in Scotland, and had bats in his loft. The farm was clear, and there was great worry by the guys I knew at Health England's bit of DSTL about whether or not bats could carry the bacterium. They don't. No sign of the bacterium in his home. But he was English, and often visited his parents over the border, where he did drum making classes for the local kids at the village hall. It was in the hall that they found the smoking gun.

Experiments showed that the anthrax spore, once it was on a surface, was a sticky bugger. You need energy to shift it, eg rubbing the surface. Likely he was close to the hides as he stitched them. He was buying West African sheep skins off Ebay..... Valuable insight for what I needed to do.

A few months later, a young Spanish drum maker was found dead in his London flat. The accumulated experience meant decon was no issue.

I am aware of a British soldier bringing back inhalational anthrax from Florida. He had previously served in Iraq, and went on a family holiday to Disney etc. He was in a bad way on the return flight, and it was blues and twos to St Barts. Elevated WBCs, and other signals, so he was suffering a systemic infection, and he was into multiple failure, so they pumped him full of antiobiotics. Only weeks later, after he recovered, did the results from Porton Down come back; tell tale Anthrax toxin residues in his blood. The combination of the NHS acting quicly, his high degree of phyical fitness, and that he had been pumped to the gunnels with mystery unapproved vaccines likely saved his life.

Bacillus anthracis is not something you would engineer into an "ethnic bioweapon". You would use a virus, if you did such a thing. South Africa is thought to have used Bacillus anthracis to contaminate certain types of food favoured by certain groups, and this might have lead to localised deaths. Much earlier, a cult in Oregon wanted to rig a local election, by contaminating salad bars in fast food restaurants, places they didn't eat at. That way, people were too sick to vote on polling day, allowing the cult to swing an election.

46 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

Fair response. Which AI engine did that?

You could add that imports of animal feed, we'd eat a lot less pork and chicken, and eat a lot more grass fed animals (beef, lamb). We wouldn't starve, but there would be an increase in deficiency diseases, like Ricketts, Derby Throat, and likely an increase in infectious disease, as a result of weakened immune systems.

I did not use AI. I am from a period of time when people had benefit of a system of education that provided one with general knowledge and taught how one can consult with reference sources, such as data collections.

The UK has the ability to be self sufficient in animal proteins (pork, beef, chicken and seafood). Dairy and egg production would ramp up. The UK can easily produce a wide range of fruits and vegetables that can be supplemented. If there is an increase in the prevalence of infectious disease it would be as a direct result of declining vaccination rates, not because of diet.

33 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

I did not use AI. I am from a period of time when people had benefit of a system of education that provided one with general knowledge and taught how one can consult with reference sources, such as data collections.

The UK has the ability to be self sufficient in animal proteins (pork, beef, chicken and seafood). Dairy and egg production would ramp up. The UK can easily produce a wide range of fruits and vegetables that can be supplemented. If there is an increase in the prevalence of infectious disease it would be as a direct result of declining vaccination rates, not because of diet.

You appear to have not fully comprehended my response. Yes, the UK could sustain food production to meet calorific demand (been done before), but less likely to sustain demand for micronutrientss, without artificial interventionn. Patterns of meat consumption will change, because our ability to raise livestock is dependant on the available animal feed. We have lots of grass, hence beef and lamb production can increase. We don't grow much soy, so pork production will reduce. We don't grow maize, so chicken production will decline (unless you change your yield expectations per bird. Chickens will get much smaller, and cost more, so people will consume less).

Our production of pork and chicken is largely dependant on imported feed giving high yields, ie. soy protein and maize. Without these, pork and chicken production will inevitably fall, and will not meet current demand. Demand for these meats will need to fall, likely through an increase in cost.

Consumption of pork has increased in recent years, approaching the highs last seen in the 1970s, of about 25-27kg a year per person. But how pork is produced has changed, and we must not return to the old ways of rearing porcine beasts. Production was sustained through the use of pig swill to supplement animal feed. But that same pig swill gave rise to FMDV infection of herds. If a single animal is infected, the entire herd needs to be culled. Pigs are also an important vector in influenza spread, and novel strain emergence (the flu is considered to have occurred because 2000 years ago someone in Greece worked out pig stys were better than pigs on a mountainside).

Yes, there are arguments that if treated, pig swill is perfectly ok. That was the argument when they simplified bone meal manufacture. A failure in the process to ensure non-contamination was the origin of nvCJD (mad Cow), with 90% of the British population exposed to an agent with a possible incubation of 40-50 years.

Chicken used to be a luxury. In the 1950s, chicken was about 1% of the meat consumption of the average household. In the 1970s, a chicken was typically 1kg, now a chicken is 2kg. We've gone from eating about 0.5kg of chicken per month in the 1970s to 1kg of chicken today. The only way that yield increase was achieved in just 50 years was in industrialised production, using high calorific foods that were imported. Its fanciful to suggest we could maintain such levels without imported animal feed. Yes, we will eat less chicken, and it will be more expensive chicken. It might be better chicken, but that's not your thesis.

You are under the false illusion that vaccinations cover non-contagious disease. Your assumptions about declinng vaccine rates would account for a rise in diseases such as necrotizing fasciitis I would suggest, at best, extremely ignorant. Almost all routine vaccinations provided by the NHS are for contagious disease, eg. human to human. An exception is tetanus. Very few vaccines that are available are what would be called sterilizing; ie a vaccine that prevents infection. An example of a sterilizing vaccine are the HPV and measles vaccines. In general, vaccines prevent the development of disease. Most people think the measles vaccine is effective because of the lack of a rash. But if you test that group of school kids for virus, you will find it is still circulating among them. The vaccine gives the body a helping hand to stave off symptoms of disease. In a well nourished population, the measles vaccination is 97% effective in preventing disease. In a malnourished population, its about 60-65% effective, according to Prendergast.

It is widely recognised that vaccination is less effective in malnourished populations, because of diminished immune response. The single reason for the reduction in infectious disease in the British population is NOT the miracle of modern medicine, but the improvement in public health, ie. improved diet, improved access to clean water.

There are no vaccinations against Staphyloccocus aureus. This is an opportunistic commensal. It lives mostly without causing harm on the skin. Until you suffer an injury, and then it can lead to serious infection, sometimes resulting in cellulitus or even sepsis. Sepsis was the leading cause of death among injured troops recovered from the battle field over the last 20-25 years, pretty much the same as 100 years ago. There is no vaccination against "strep throat". Group A Strep infections have a mortality rate of 30%, and are a leading cause of necrotizing fasciitis, often leading to amputation. There is no vaccination against Salmonella spp., or Escherichia coli.

The range of fruits and vegetables that can be grown naturally in the UK is relatively limited. The addition of new fruits and vegetables is one of the reasons attributed to an increase in height. In the 1890s, there was a mass mobilisation of the army, for the Boer War. 70% of volunteers failed the basic fitness test, mostly due to Rickets. Rickets is due to lack of vitamin D, brought about by living in darkened houses and a poor environment, but its also due to low blood calcium. A diet with a heavy grain content leads to reduced absorption of calcium in the gut.

Replacing imported fruits (especially) and vegetables could be done, but it cannot easily be done. It would need the construction of heated greenhouses. But the energy requirements are considerable. Tate and Lyle are experimenting with heated greenhouses, using sugarbeet waste as a biofuel. But if demand for beet sugar was to fall, the business case for the greenhouses falls apart. One of the reasons for the increase in sugarbeet production is demand for bioethanol. So much so that the company is now importing sugar from Mauritius to supplement demand.

However, the horizon for such demand is quite short. There will be a cliff face drop in demand for bioethanol, as fuel, from about 2040, about when the last ICE cars sold in the UK will start to get scrapped (Euro6 engines are in many cases barely making 100k miles, given wetbelt failures (wetbelts were needed to attain the efficiency standards in many cases. The cost of a dry belt change is typically £400-500, but wetbelt changes are often £1000-1500, essentially an uneconomic repair on a 10 year old car)).

You're discussing with a PhD in microbiology, with 30+ years in the field, substantially in the field of biosecurity and biological threats to the nation. Read about Sir Alfred Keogh to understand the reaction of the government of the day to the realisation that the nation was not ready to fight an expected major European war. Simply, we didn't have the manpower.

As for seafood, how are you expecting to get this harvest of the sea? The UK fishing fleet has declined from 25,000 to 5,000 now, with a concomitant contraction of the number of jobs in the sector. Fishing remains the most dangerous occupation. Are you going to force people to become fishermen? And how are you going to magic up 20,000 trawlers? Ship production has more or less disappeared now in the UK. Its gone, never coming back, unless someone comes up with a magic way to make ships using additive manufacturing techniques. It takes about 18 months to build a trawler. Typical yards can produce about 5 trawlers a year. It would take 40 years for 100 ship yards, which don't actually exist, to restore the fleet to 1970s levels. By that time, we'd all forgotten what cod tasted like. Those 25,000 boats were the legacy of 1500 years of commercial fishing, thats why its sheer fantasy to suggest that we could "easily" become self sufficient in seafood. In 1900, we landed 1.2 million tonnes of seafood from domestic waters. By 2020, this had declined to less than a quarter of that (Heard et al, 2025, Rev Fish Biol Fish 18;35(2)). Farmed seafood produces about 150,000 tonnes a year, often disease riddled fish, and I hate the taste of salmon. Its ludicrous to think that can be expanded by 500%.

In 1939-45, the UK population was about 50 million. With an effective blockade on most food imports, and central government mandated of conversion of urban gardens into food production (Dig for Victory), the nation could sustain a relatively high calorific diet (by promoting crops with a high calorific value), but not something that could be sustained long term; for instance, there was a shortage of eggs, as children often received the adults' allocation to sustain them. The population is now about 70 million.

On 2/25/2026 at 3:35 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

I think turnips is the plan.

Or is it cake ?