1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

That's true, but extremes sometimes call for extreme measures and bending of the rules. There isn't any other logical approach to this anyone has figured out, and the regime needed to be stopped before they continued their killings.

So following your line of logic, trump/US should attack/bomb Russia because they have been killing Ukranian men, women and children. not to mention killing their own citizens (eg. Navalny) who disagree with them??

Will welcome the US strikes on Russia............

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

So following your line of logic, trump/US should attack/bomb Russia because they have been killing Ukranian men, women and children. not to mention killing their own citizens (eg. Navalny) who disagree with them??

Will welcome the US strikes on Russia............

All megalomaniac dictators should be removed from office, along with their team, so the country can have a democratic say, which comes with having peace. Russia isn't killing our people so our only involvement should be as it is, helping our allies. Iran has killed many Americans, along with our allies, so getting involved was necessary if only for that reason.

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

All megalomaniac dictators should be removed from office, along with their team, so the country can have a democratic say, which comes with having peace. Russia isn't killing our people so our only involvement should be as it is, helping our allies. Iran has killed many Americans, along with our allies, so getting involved was necessary if only for that reason.

by what you have stated above you should get rid of trump and his team because the usa is no longer democratic by the fact trump is ignoring the democratic processes in America, think the last poll stated 76% did not want this war and i believe trump stated he did not want any help from his allies There is Reason to start a war and killing people

2 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

by what you have stated above you should get rid of trump and his team because the usa is no longer democratic by the fact trump is ignoring the democratic processes in America, think the last poll stated 76% did not want this war and i believe trump stated he did not want any help from his allies There is Reason to start a war and killing people

I didn't vote for him and would like to see a better candidate. He' s all we have now and I hope things improve for Iran.

17 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

All megalomaniac dictators should be removed from office, along with their team, so the country can have a democratic say, which comes with having peace. Russia isn't killing our people so our only involvement should be as it is, helping our allies. Iran has killed many Americans, along with our allies, so getting involved was necessary if only for that reason.

A poor response and nonsense, and you know it!

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

A poor response and nonsense, and you know it!

Hundreds of Americans over a few decades isn't a poor response. I don't make up the stats. There are more than a few reasons America is involved. I only was referring to that one, which is reason enough to stop their insanity.Just two,...983 Beirut Barracks Bombing: Iran-backed Hezbollah was responsible for bombing the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, killing 241 Americans.

1. 1996 Khobar Towers Bombing: An attack linked to Iran killed 19 U.S. airmen in Saudi Arabia...............https://china.usembassy-china.org.cn/the-iranian-regimes-decades-of-terrorism-against-american-citizens/

15 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

All megalomaniac dictators should be removed from office, along with their team, so the country can have a democratic say, which comes with having peace. Russia isn't killing our people so our only involvement should be as it is, helping our allies. Iran has killed many Americans, along with our allies, so getting involved was necessary if only for that reason.

I hope you are not so stupid not to realize that trump has started a forever war Iran is like an elephant never forgets when this ends Iran defeated what to do think will happen the terrorists will double, triple you will never get rid of terrorists Americas terrorist level will never go down no Americans will ever be safe again Yanks stupidity !!

9 hours ago, stevenl said:

Who told you this?

Good luck to our troops

You keep cheering for Iran though

1 minute ago, MikeandDow said:

I hope you are not so stupid not to realize that trump has started a forever war Iran is like an elephant never forgets when this ends Iran defeated what to do think will happen the terrorists will double, triple you will never get rid of terrorists Americas terrorist level will never go down no Americans will ever be safe again Yanks stupidity !!

I'm not stupid at all, so refrain from assuming like a couple of others here, who's reputation speaks for itself. If you take away all the military from a sick terrorist group, of course they might start again but will need a lot of money, so someone will have to back them. Russia might, but it isn't a smart idea seeing they can't even beat Ukraine in their own war. North Korea has shown how they think, and eventually their people might do what's necessary to have their own freedom. The same for a few other countries in Africa.

America has had terrorists but it isn't terrorism now.

The only way to deal with terrorists is extermination as soon as possible, as yes, they are created every day in homes that teach hate towards others. Education, meaning a society with democracy, has a much better chance to have more of their population not thinking to the extremes and more wanting peace, which doesn't come from hating others but being taught in childhood that life is precious. Almost all other countries aren't like this, which shows the truth. Most want peace, freedom, democracy and western values once they're introduced.

11 minutes ago, EastBayRay said:

Good luck to our troops

You keep cheering for Iran though

I would recommend you to not consider the people selling you this war as a reliable source on the war. I question your sources.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

I would recommend you to not consider the people selling you this war as a reliable source on the war. I question your sources.

I question your support of a regime like Iran

As a leftie I guess you share their views on freedom of speech and an all powerful state

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm not stupid at all, so refrain from assuming like a couple of others here, who's reputation speaks for itself. If you take away all the military from a sick terrorist group, of course they might start again but will need a lot of money, so someone will have to back them. Russia might, but it isn't a smart idea seeing they can't even beat Ukraine in their own war. North Korea has shown how they think, and eventually their people might do what's necessary to have their own freedom. The same for a few other countries in Africa.

America has had terrorists but it isn't terrorism now.

The only way to deal with terrorists is extermination as soon as possible, as yes, they are created every day in homes that teach hate towards others. Education, meaning a society with democracy, has a much better chance to have more of their population not thinking to the extremes and more wanting peace, which doesn't come from hating others but being taught in childhood that life is precious. Almost all other countries aren't like this, which shows the truth. Most want peace, freedom, democracy and western values once they're introduced.

Countering Terrorism is a vast subject as is debated among policymakers, security experts, and the public, with various perspectives on the most effective approach. and you are taking the hardline, military-focused approach often argue that organizations designated as terrorist groups pose an existential threat that cannot be negotiated with. From this perspective, the priority is the rapid neutralization or elimination of threats to prevent further violence, often viewing this as a necessary measure for national security

Different countries and organizations adopt varied strategies based on their security doctrines and the specific context of the threat. this is a vast subject and off topic so i will be ending this now

2 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

What an absolute load of drivel.

Iran is actually one of the most least pro-American populations in the Middle East.

You really must stop watching CNN, it really does rot your brain!.

What evidence can you provide for your comment??

Favorability for the U.S. has dropped in many Arab nations over the last few years, but it has remained remarkably high in Iran.

The most recent GAMAAN survey (November 2025) found that 53% of Iranians have a favorable view of the United States.

Regional Comparison: This makes the U.S. the most liked foreign country in Iran, ranking significantly higher than Russia (16%) or the United Kingdom (18%). In many neighboring countries, the population is actually more anti-American than their government; in Iran, it is the reverse.

in "allied" countries like Turkey or Jordan, favorability toward the U.S. is often below 20%. Iran is literally the only country in the Middle East where the majority of the population views the U.S. favorably, despite 45 years of "Death to America" propaganda.

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

That's true, but extremes sometimes call for extreme measures and bending of the rules.

So extremism is okay when it's you doing it. Got it.

54 minutes ago, EastBayRay said:

I question your support of a regime like Iran

As a leftie I guess you share their views on freedom of speech and an all powerful state

Not falling for your baiting.

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Some believe it's all about oil, which it isn't

The United States is very lucky. Whenever they fight for freedom, it turns out that there is oil

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    This includes emoji-only replies, very short comments, memes, GIFs, screenshots, or embedded social media posts without explanation or opinion.

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3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Hundreds of Americans over a few decades isn't a poor response. I don't make up the stats. There are more than a few reasons America is involved. I only was referring to that one, which is reason enough to stop their insanity.Just two,...983 Beirut Barracks Bombing: Iran-backed Hezbollah was responsible for bombing the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, killing 241 Americans.

1. 1996 Khobar Towers Bombing: An attack linked to Iran killed 19 U.S. airmen in Saudi Arabia...............https://china.usembassy-china.org.cn/the-iranian-regimes-decades-of-terrorism-against-american-citizens/

So following your line of logic, trump/US should attack/bomb Russia because they have been killing Ukranian men, women and children. not to mention killing their own citizens (eg. Navalny) who disagree with them??

Will welcome the US strikes on Russia............

8 hours ago, xylophone said:

So following your line of logic, trump/US should attack/bomb Russia because they have been killing Ukranian men, women and children. not to mention killing their own citizens (eg. Navalny) who disagree with them??

Will welcome the US strikes on Russia............

Russia isn't bombing US citizens. The US supporting the Ukraine is right as they're allies.

20 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Genocide which is a major reason the US gets involved in anything

I thought it was the oil that attracted them. I could be wrong but the government keeps talking about venezuelan and Iranian oil and how it will belong to them

4 minutes ago, Purdey said:

I thought it was the oil that attracted them. I could be wrong but the government keeps talking about venezuelan and Iranian oil and how it will belong to them

No, you're right, as the US always has other motives when they enter other countries business. Not sure about the belonging to them part, but in their best interests is part of the deal of ridding the world of terrorists, if that's possible as the home is where they start, along with having that oil as a bonus. Some think it's just the oil, but the US has done this in other countries trying to stop tyranny so being the world's police now, they'll still do what they think is right, even if there are underlying motives most everyone sees.

13 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Hundreds of Americans over a few decades isn't a poor response. I don't make up the stats. There are more than a few reasons America is involved. I only was referring to that one, which is reason enough to stop their insanity.Just two,...983 Beirut Barracks Bombing: Iran-backed Hezbollah was responsible for bombing the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, killing 241 Americans.

1. 1996 Khobar Towers Bombing: An attack linked to Iran killed 19 U.S. airmen in Saudi Arabia...............https://china.usembassy-china.org.cn/the-iranian-regimes-decades-of-terrorism-against-american-citizens/

Just out of curiosity, what's the time limit on these sort of killings, when all the people involved have passed away?

As horrific as the Hezbollah bombings of the Embassy (April 1983) and later in the year the Marine Barracks bombing, that was 43 years ago. Besides, Reagan and Ollie North traded weapons to the Iranian leadership in a convoluted scheme to fund the Contras. Everything is messy.

Are white Americans responsible for the perhaps millions of deaths of what we now call Native Americans? Are Mongolians responsible for Genghis Khan killing upwards of 20% of humanity? Should White Americans pay reparations to Black Americans, when the Whites were not slaveowners and the Blacks were not slaves?

What's the cut off point? How many years before Germans are not responsible for the Holocaust? Hitler is dead, and only a hero to Young Republicans in the MAGA world.

It hardly seems a rational explanation to bomb Tehran today for what former Iranian leaders funded 43 years ago. Better to stick with a more recent rationale, such as Trump's "hunch" that somehow Iran was going to attack the US, silly as that is.

2 minutes ago, Wingate said:

Just out of curiosity, what's the time limit on these sort of killings, when all the people involved have passed away?

As horrific as the Hezbollah bombings of the Embassy (April 1983) and later in the year the Marine Barracks bombing, that was 43 years ago. Besides, Reagan and Ollie North traded weapons to the Iranian leadership in a convoluted scheme to fund the Contras. Everything is messy.

Are white Americans responsible for the perhaps millions of deaths of what we now call Native Americans? Are Mongolians responsible for Genghis Khan killing upwards of 20% of humanity? Should White Americans pay reparations to Black Americans, when the Whites were not slaveowners and the Blacks were not slaves?

What's the cut off point? How many years before Germans are not responsible for the Holocaust? Hitler is dead, and only a hero to Young Republicans in the MAGA world.

It hardly seems a rational explanation to bomb Tehran today for what former Iranian leaders funded 43 years ago. Better to stick with a more recent rationale, such as Trump's "hunch" that somehow Iran was going to attack the US, silly as that is.

True, as the damage to civilians needs to stop. Trying to find military targets without harming the innocents has always been a problem, as they tend to hide around the civilians, thinking they're safer, without care for those people. It's impossible to eliminate all terrorists, as they begin at home, the same way all sociopaths and narcissists begin. If anyone knew a better way to stop them, it would surely have been used by now.

It isn't a "normal" war, fought on battlegrounds soldier against soldier, so how do you stop the killing of innocents without killing innocents? Iran was our ally and now the regime wants us all dead. The people , at least half, are on the US side. Israel is another matter, and seeing the US wants to help Israel, how do you do that without causing the same damage they want to cause? This is the here and now, unlike blaming Germans for the Holocaust. Most everyone by now knows what Iran's regime has done, so how do you go after those responsible if they hide around civilians?

Blaming Americans for what's happening isn't right, as many aren't wanting this war, but the ones that do, want to see Iran's people free from what's happened all along, and especially recently. We can see how Iranians around the world feel, those living in the west, in their celebrations, but we can also see some that still are on the regime's side, no matter what they've done.

How yes do you make Iran responsible for killing those Americans without going after them with force? Trump thought they were in the process of making nukes, and the Uranium enrichment, however true that is, shows they were.

16 minutes ago, Wingate said:

Just out of curiosity, what's the time limit on these sort of killings, when all the people involved have passed away?

An interesting question, as you really are asking about the difference between actually remembering an event versus folk memory. I suspect you should be looking at about 80-90 years after an event. The Second World War is rapidly heading towards Folk Memory. If you served for the last couple of months of WW2, you'd be at least 104 now. In the UK, there are about 2000 people left aged 104 or older. Most elderly people were young children in WW2, and their memories of the events will be flawed, or even reconstructed. Of course in the multimedia age, recordings are made to try and keep alive such memories for school children. I'm not sure that's really any different to books.

And I don't really think its a good thing. The post WW2 generation was traumatised; kids without fathers, kids with memories of the absolute horror of war. Continually replaying footage, for instance, of 911, can continually retrigger fear, grief, and anger. Society does need to move on. I'm not sure when its supposed to move on though. When traumatic footage becomes a central element of national or group identity, it can anchor political narratives in victimhood or resentment.

A good friend of mine served in Afghanistan, and he recounted a story of meeting an angry elder as he lead a patrol. It was relatively early on, and the British were conducting foot patrols in the towns, trying to win hearts and minds, and were fairly relaxed (no helmets for instance). The old boy was furious, saying the British needed to provide compensation for destroying a market. My friend was worried, what had we done, dropped a bomb in the wrong place, he was about to write out a chit for cash, and needed details. The old boy was referring to an event 150 years earlier, during one of the previous Anglo-Afghan wars. In illiterate societies, memories are kept alive by bitching about an issue over a camp fire. Not healthy.

A sense of perpetual victimhood can also be used by those with neferous motives as propaganda; Himmler did this by inventing a concept of the Volk and Teutonic knights; getting people to miss a society that was actually largely fictionalised. We get the same idea with the Scottish Nationalists, when that Braveheart film came out. The city of Stirling erected a statue to William Wallace that was modeled on Mel Gibson. It was ridiculous. In Northern Ireland, the events of the Battle of the Boyne was marked every July. It ends up in fisticuffs. In England, November 5th Bonfire societies end up building bonfires with caravans to represent burning out travellers.

19 hours ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

What an absolute load of drivel.

Iran is actually one of the most pro-American populations in the Middle East.

Absolutely correct, the vast majority of civilians in Iran support the USA, the regime/IRGC...not so much!

Off topic and bickering posts removed.

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Russia isn't bombing US citizens. The US supporting the Ukraine is right as they're allies.

Didn't seem that way under Trump.

14 hours ago, K2938 said:

The United States is very lucky. Whenever they fight for freedom, it turns out that there is oil

There is no oil in Afghanistan. Did two deployments there.

22 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

There is no oil in Afghanistan. Did two deployments there.

It is estimated that Afghanistan has as much as 1,000×10⁶ m³ (36×10⁹ cu ft) of natural gas, 570×10⁶ m³ (3.6 Gbbl) of oil and condensate reserves.

16 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

by what you have stated above you should get rid of trump and his team because the usa is no longer democratic by the fact trump is ignoring the democratic processes in America, think the last poll stated 76% did not want this war and i believe trump stated he did not want any help from his allies There is Reason to start a war and killing people

Trump has a mandate. He was elected.

Congress has not blocked him and they too have a mandate because they were elected.

Polling results are not a valid mandate.

Read what Trump said. He is pointing out that if the countries who need the middle east LNG and oil want to more quickly access it again, they can come and get it by securing its safe passage.

China is in good shape. It has a 6 month reserve.

North America does not need it because it is energy self sufficient.

Africa has local energy sources.

The world's oil and gas producers outside the region are laughing all the way to the bank. Russia is making windfall profits.

It is Europe and the UK along with North Asia who are in trouble. The UK is in panic mode.