A Warning About Using Visa Agents In Penang

[DivinGuy]

I have been forming a company in Thailand using Sunbelt Asia as my law firm.

I had to get my business visa so I went to Penang. I used "N. J." as the visa agent. I gave them my documents, filled out the application, paid the fee and left.

Rather than receiving my business visa, I got a transit visa and was blacklisted at the Penang consulate. I have no reason to suspect that Sunbelt has been anything but honest and competent, so I think my documents were okay. I can understand that a mistake on my application or in my documents may have resulted in my not receiving a business visa. However, I was very shocked to be blacklisted.

There is nothing in my passport to suggest that I am anything other than what I am - a person who came to Thailand several times as a tourist and, since I can work from anywhere, decided to work from here.

My lawyer at Sunbelt suspects that the visa agent I used may have been the problem. That agent may have a bad reputation, which coupled with anything unusual or incorrect in my application, may have led the consulate to suspect fraud.

I had planned to return to the USA in March for a few weeks to take care of some business, so I will just go in January instead. I did not care for Penang so I already had no intention to return there.

This is neither a rant nor a whine, simply a warning. I'm sure any agent is fine for a tourist visa, and probably for a non-O. But I would strongly recommend that if you are applying for a non-B, you walk it in yourself. I had planned to do so, but was trying to find out why my ATM card wouldn't work and decided to avoid the hassle of going to the embassy. (I have since learned that my ATM card won't work in Malaysia, Indonesia, or Romania.)

Below are all my earlier entries into Thailand as well as the consulates issuing my tourist visas.

30 Day Stamps:

July 06, 2005 (Stayed 14 days)

Feb 02, 2006 (Stayed 26 days)

Jan 29, 2007 (Stayed 27 days)

Tourist Visas

Nov 08, 2006 (Los Angeles) (extended in Phuket)

Feb 27, 2007 (Vientiane) (Stayed 40 days)

Sep 07, 2007 (Los Angeles) (extended in HuaHin)

[Crossy]

It would be VERY interesting for all here to know what form your 'blacklisting' takes, stamp in the PP etc.

Most visa rejections come with a reason and an opportunity to correct the deficiencies and re-apply.

[DivinGuy]

It would be VERY interesting for all here to know what form your 'blacklisting' takes, stamp in the PP etc.

Near the bottom of my transit visa are the words:

"DO NOT APPLY NEW VISA AT PENANG AGAIN"

There is a scan of this same message on another thread.

Most visa rejections come with a reason and an opportunity to correct the deficiencies and re-apply.

That's why I plan to re-apply at home, rather than go to KL or Singapore. If there's a problem, I can't fix it until I know what it is. There's a Thai consulate about four hours by car from my home in the USA. I can apply there and talk to the consulate employees.

Also, they didn't return my documents.

[david96]

It would be VERY interesting for all here to know what form your 'blacklisting' takes, stamp in the PP etc.

Near the bottom of my transit visa are the words:

"DO NOT APPLY NEW VISA AT PENANG AGAIN"

There is a scan of this same message on another thread.

Most visa rejections come with a reason and an opportunity to correct the deficiencies and re-apply.

That's why I plan to re-apply at home, rather than go to KL or Singapore. If there's a problem, I can't fix it until I know what it is. There's a Thai consulate about four hours by car from my home in the USA. I can apply there and talk to the consulate employees.

Also, they didn't return my documents.

There have been many warnings about using so called "visa agents". Always get the visa yourself. You were lucky you got your passport back and hope it has not been compromised. Scanned on a laser printer and info into a false passport

always possible.

[sriracha john]

I have been forming a company in Thailand using Sunbelt Asia as my law firm.

I had to get my business visa so I went to Penang. I used "N. J." as the visa agent.

Don't know what your specific problem was, but NJ Books has a long history on Thaivisa for providing prompt, friendly, efficient, and LEGAL visa service for a very reasonable fee for countless customers.

[ballbreaker]

Why do so many people feel it necessary to have an agent take care of your visa?

[jaidam]

Why do so many people feel it necessary to have an agent take care of your visa?

I have used the NJ book shop several times for my multi non-B. Never had any problem. Why use the agent?

It didn't sound like fun wasting time taking a taxi to the embassy and messing around with any paperwork and bureaucrats there, then taxiing back to the hotel and repeating the whole thing 2 days later. Instead I ate some great food, toured around the island, went shopping and spent alot of time sampling the local beers. Lovely 2 day holiday and then back to Thailand.

The real question would be why bother messing around yourself at the embassy when you can use a reasonably priced visa agent and save yourself the hassle. Whenever I have used NJ there have been several other people getting their passports back at the same time (just before minibus to Hat Yai leaves) and I never saw anybody not get the visa they applied for.

It is always a possibility that your paperwork was very incorrect in some way. Again better to have used the agents or you may have been arrested at the embassy had you been there yourself!

[DivinGuy]

Why do so many people feel it necessary to have an agent take care of your visa?

It is always a possibility that your paperwork was very incorrect in some way. Again better to have used the agents or you may have been arrested at the embassy had you been there yourself!

That seems rather unlikely.

I should clarify two things.

One, I am not accusing NJ of fraud or anything else. Although I didn't remember the name from TV, I probably went there because it seemed familiar. I stated the name of the agent because that's where I went.

Two, when I got back to HuaHin and reread the MFA web page on business visas, I saw that I had not supplied proof of finances to stay in Thailand. That may have been adequate reason to reject the application, which would have been fine, but doesn't seem like a reason to blacklist me. My lawyer seems to discount that possibility and focuses on the use of an agent as the problem. That's why I made the post.

[Samuian]

Don't know what your specific problem was, but NJ Books has a long history on Thaivisa for providing prompt, friendly, efficient, and LEGAL visa service for a very reasonable fee for countless customers.

Same, same and then would N.J. have stamped the Notification in the Passport?

No?

The Embassy, yes?

I was recently there and because of Job-Change some Documents weren't supplied... I was very friendly told that the Procedures are now somewhat more strict - courtesy of the foreign ministry! - and that Penang could under the given cirumstances ONLY supply me with 90 days... Non-immi-B - but that if i got the Documents all completed could return ANY time for the Multiple ... or go to KL there would be still issued a multiple-NOn-B-....

Polite and friendly - but they have to follow rules too!

Well I decided to get my act straight first and that's it!

I know the guys from N.J. personally for years - certainly they are different from Caucasians... but some of the friendliest and most reliable bunch I have come across in Asia in the Service Business....

[surface]

Glad I came accross this as I am going to Sunbelt tomorrow to get the business paperwork started, so I will definitely bring this up. As I received my last TV in Penang, and HATED the place, I was planning on going to KL, SG, or HK to apply for my business visa. I guess I'll talk it over with Sunbelt as they may know from past experiences if any of those places are a problem, but if anyone here has been to any of them for a business visa please let me know how it went.

FYI, I stayed at Bananna Guest House in Penang and used them to get my TV. They were very friendly and no problems in getting the visa. The owner was very up to date on the situation there regarding Thai visas. I would never have used them though for a business visa, regardless of what Sunbelt might say on the issue. That is something I would want to be there in person for incase they had any further questions, wanted clarity on certain things or additional information, forms filled out incorrectly, etc. If you had gone in person you surely could have gotten a reason for the refusal and perhaps might not have been refused at all.

Could you send me the name of the lawyer you are working with in a pm? Thanks.

[DivinGuy]

Glad I came accross this as I am going to Sunbelt tomorrow to get the business paperwork started, so I will definitely bring this up. As I received my last TV in Penang, and HATED the place, I was planning on going to KL, SG, or HK to apply for my business visa. I guess I'll talk it over with Sunbelt as they may know from past experiences if any of those places are a problem, but if anyone here has been to any of them for a business visa please let me know how it went.

FYI, I stayed at Bananna Guest House in Penang and used them to get my TV. They were very friendly and no problems in getting the visa. The owner was very up to date on the situation there regarding Thai visas. I would never have used them though for a business visa, regardless of what Sunbelt might say on the issue. That is something I would want to be there in person for incase they had any further questions, wanted clarity on certain things or additional information, forms filled out incorrectly, etc. If you had gone in person you surely could have gotten a reason for the refusal and perhaps might not have been refused at all.

Could you send me the name of the lawyer you are working with in a pm? Thanks.

I sent it. He (I have no idea as to Sunbelt's corporate opinion) strongly recommends against the use of agents. I did not tell him the name of the agent I used, so it is not something personal.

[Beavis and Butthead]

I LOVE Penang and used NJ at least 10 times to get past visas of all types and been delighted with the results. I've seen hundreds of satisfied customers there also. So let me get this straight; Sunbelt is advising you on what you need to get this visa but it's the agent's fault you didn't get it and got blacklisted; now that dont make no sense, at all. The bottom line here is that you need to take responsibility for this and not fingerpoint the agent as your scapegoat

[DivinGuy]

I LOVE Penang and used NJ at least 10 times to get past visas of all types and been delighted with the results. I've seen hundreds of satisfied customers there also. So let me get this straight; Sunbelt is advising you on what you need to get this visa but it's the agent's fault you didn't get it and got blacklisted; now that dont make no sense, at all. The bottom line here is that you need to take responsibility for this and not fingerpoint the agent as your scapegoat

From the OP:

"My lawyer at Sunbelt suspects that the visa agent I used may have been the problem. That agent may have a bad reputation, which coupled with anything unusual or incorrect in my application, may have led the consulate to suspect fraud."

I didn't blame the agent, my lawyer did. From the email he sent me this morning:

"The problem is definitely that you used an agent. You have now been blacklisted from the Penang consulate. We have never had someone obtain a transit visa in the past. This is 100% the result of the use of agent. We have never had a problem with the Penang consulate. In fact, someone arrived back the exact same day saying everything was “fine, quite easy”. Sadly, it seems as though you picked the wrong visa agent (although you should not use them at all). Perhaps it’s an agency known for document forgery etc."

I simply wanted to warn people not to use an agent for something as important as a non-B. I mentioned the agent's name because that's who I used. If there were any use in editing my post, I would remove the name, but it's been repeated endlessly. All documents except the application were prepared by the law office. I'm not sure how I could screw up the application itself badly enough to get blacklisted. Perhaps the consulate takes a different attitude when one uses an agent? Perhaps some papers got lost along the way? If I had walked it in myself, I might know what went wrong. In that sense, I happily take responsibility. I should not have used an agent for something that important. Not NJ nor anyone else.

Edited to add: My response to the above email was, "why wouldn't they blacklist the agent? (Serious question) "

Edited December 11, 2007 by DivinGuy

[LivinLOS]

I sent it. He (I have no idea as to Sunbelt's corporate opinion) strongly recommends against the use of agents. I did not tell him the name of the agent I used, so it is not something personal.

Isnt that kind of comical when Sunbelt themselves provide those kind of 'agent like' services of invite letters etc..

[mike_rad]

Here's another vouch for N J Books. From 2003 to 2006 I made back to back visa runs to Penang, always using their service and never having any problem.

Experience tells us the problem is with the consulate.

[tropo]

There have been many warnings about using so called "visa agents". Always get the visa yourself. You were lucky you got your passport back and hope it has not been compromised. Scanned on a laser printer and info into a false passport

always possible.

Many warnings?

I don't think there's been any at all. These so called visa agents do a fine job.

[Lite Beer]

Seems pretty clear to me. If the OP had gone himself he would have been there to sort out any problems , or at least ask why he was turned down and get his documents back. Why leave your future in the hands of someone else just to save a few hours inconvenience? Seems like madness to me.

[Somtamnication]

There you go. Sunbelt screwed up, not the agent. Funny how your lawyer told you otherwise.

Two, when I got back to HuaHin and reread the MFA web page on business visas, I saw that I had not supplied proof of finances to stay in Thailand. That may have been adequate reason to reject the application, which would have been fine, but doesn't seem like a reason to blacklist me. My lawyer seems to discount that possibility and focuses on the use of an agent as the problem. That's why I made the post.

[Hans Brix]

There you go. Sunbelt screwed up, not the agent. Funny how your lawyer told you otherwise.

Two, when I got back to HuaHin and reread the MFA web page on business visas, I saw that I had not supplied proof of finances to stay in Thailand. That may have been adequate reason to reject the application, which would have been fine, but doesn't seem like a reason to blacklist me. My lawyer seems to discount that possibility and focuses on the use of an agent as the problem. That's why I made the post.

I was thinking the same thing. This part of the world is odd in that no one wants to take responsibilty for anything, Asians or Farangs operating here. No one is willing to admit that they made a mistake, the buck is always passed. I run into this on a continuing basis in Thailand. Everyone makes mistakes, it aint a crime, why not just admit it

[DivinGuy]

There you go. Sunbelt screwed up, not the agent. Funny how your lawyer told you otherwise.

Two, when I got back to HuaHin and reread the MFA web page on business visas, I saw that I had not supplied proof of finances to stay in Thailand. That may have been adequate reason to reject the application, which would have been fine, but doesn't seem like a reason to blacklist me. My lawyer seems to discount that possibility and focuses on the use of an agent as the problem. That's why I made the post.

I was thinking the same thing. This part of the world is odd in that no one wants to take responsibilty for anything, Asians or Farangs operating here. No one is willing to admit that they made a mistake, the buck is always passed. I run into this on a continuing basis in Thailand. Everyone makes mistakes, it aint a crime, why not just admit it

I guess I didn't (and don't) see my proof of finances as Sunbelt's responsibility. I forgot to supply that, not them. As I wrote earlier, my big concern wasn't not receiving my visa, but being blacklisted.

In my effort to tell the story, I probably unfairly painted NJ as a culprit of some kind. If I hadn't mentioned the name, people would have probably asked what agent I used, so what the heck.

LiteBeer nailed it. My real point was, if it's important, don't entrust it to someone else, take it in yourself. I had planned to, but was distracted trying to figure out the problem with my ATM card (and one of my girlfriend's cards, too). Ironically, I was trying to get enough money to show proof of finances at the border. I usually have enough in traveler's checks with me, but expenses in Penang had put me below the limit.

Mike_rad also has a good point, and that had been my original thought. Basically that the embassy is swamped with applications, and anything they don't like, they reject out of hand and (possibly) if you use an agent, blacklist you.

As a final question about this, has anyone used an agent, had a visa application rejected, and then been told why it was rejected or what to change?

[Lodestone]

Why do so many people feel it necessary to have an agent take care of your visa?

I have used the NJ book shop several times for my multi non-B. Never had any problem. Why use the agent?

It didn't sound like fun wasting time taking a taxi to the embassy and messing around with any paperwork and bureaucrats there, then taxiing back to the hotel and repeating the whole thing 2 days later. Instead I ate some great food, toured around the island, went shopping and spent alot of time sampling the local beers. Lovely 2 day holiday and then back to Thailand.

The real question would be why bother messing around yourself at the embassy when you can use a reasonably priced visa agent and save yourself the hassle.

I can only speak for Penang tourist visas, but I've never used an agent. What I've always done instead is get there on the 10am arrival Air Asia flight, flag down a street taxi outside the airport and take a 30 ringgit trip first to the Thai consulate (about a 25 minute drive) to submit my application (while the driver waits) and then on to a Chulia Street hotel. When he drops me off, I'll offer the driver the same deal, which he invariably enthusiastically agrees to, for a next day afternoon hotel pickup with a stop again at the consulate to pick up my passport before continuing to drop me off at the airport for my evening AirAsia flight back. In my experience doing it this way has seemed pretty efficient with minimal hassle. I'm not sure how including an agent in the process, again speaking only for tourist visas and before the latest 'crackdown', helps matters and might mean I have to spend an extra day in Penang, which I'd prefer not to.

[Lite Beer]

Penang seems to have a policy of turning away passports with a few tourist visas. They must get stacks of aplications every day handed in by agents and individuals. They look at the passports , see a few tourist visas and give it the infamous red stamp. The agent has a pile of passports and he is not going to stand around arguing the toss.

Submit your own application and you are able to sort out any problems. Hopefully.

[tropo]

Penang seems to have a policy of turning away passports with a few tourist visas. They must get stacks of aplications every day handed in by agents and individuals. They look at the passports , see a few tourist visas and give it the infamous red stamp. The agent has a pile of passports and he is not going to stand around arguing the toss.

Submit your own application and you are able to sort out any problems. Hopefully.

Good luck with that. Better advice is to give Penang a miss because they're defiling passports with all sorts of nasty stamps.

It's easy to see that they've developed a very negative attitude over the last few months.

[torrenova]

Why are people so bloody lazy that they use an "agent" who is not really an agent to fill out some forms ?

[tropo]

Why are people so bloody lazy that they use an "agent" who is not really an agent to fill out some forms ?

Relax. You've probably been waiting a long time for someone to give you an excuse to say that.

Did you not realise that it saves time and money?

I always used agents in Penang and used to wonder why on earth anyone would go themselves when for 200 baht one can have an agent do it for them.

[torrenova]

I went once and just stopped off at the place on my way from and to the airport. No difficulty and no risk to loss of passport (don't tell me they have never ever lost one). Perhaps 5/10 minutes each way.

[tropo]

I went once and just stopped off at the place on my way from and to the airport. No difficulty and no risk to loss of passport (don't tell me they have never ever lost one). Perhaps 5/10 minutes each way.

Obviously no one is going to convince you otherwise, but it saves a lot more than 5 to 10 minutes each way and money too.

I very much doubt they'd ever lose passports. You find one report where an agent in Penang has.

[PattayaParent]

Why do so many people feel it necessary to have an agent take care of your visa?

To avoid the hassle of having to travel way out of town (and back) to the Embassy and also being able to get the application in after the Embassy has officially closed to walk in customers.

[david96]

Why are people so bloody lazy that they use an "agent" who is not really an agent to fill out some forms ?

You (the applicant) for a visa should fill in the form yourself and then sign it. You are responsible for what you have signed. If you get an visa agent to fill it in for you make sure the form is filled in correctly before you sign it.

[bottlenose]

Hi there people. I need to get another non B from Penang in Jan 2008. Is there a limit to the number of non-b's they'll issue to a single passport holder or is there a limit of say two per year? I had one in Oct 2006, one in May 2007 and one in Sep 2007, should i expect any problems? many thanks.