Australian Aged Pension

[cheynewalk]

A friend of mine who has just received his aged pension sought advice beforehand from the centrelink experts in hobart.  They told him 2 years ago he had basically 2 choices if he was living overseas.

 

1.  Come back to australia 2 years before you apply for your pension and reside in australia for at least 13 of the next 24 months.  When he applies for his aged pension he would be granted immediate portability.

 

2.  Come back when you a eligible to apply for your pension.  You will have to do your 2 years in australia, however you can do 3 months in oz and travel os for 6 weeks max.  You won't be paid whilst os, but the whole 4 and and half month period counts towards your 2 years in oz.

 

My friend chose option 1, but says in hindsight he would of been better off with option 2.  He still had to do 13 mths in oz, whereas option 2 he would have had to do 16 months in oz, but at least he was getting paid whilst he was there.

 

Something to think about.

[moojar]

Thanks Cheynewalk, good to hear of people's actual recent experiences. 

 

Those Hobart folk seem quite decent the times I have spoken to them, not as ... confrontational as your average CL officer.  

 

Could your friend have gone on the dole (Newstart) under option 1 before reaching pension age?  Or not possible with the overseas travel? 

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, moojar said:

Thanks Cheynewalk, good to hear of people's actual recent experiences. 

 

Those Hobart folk seem quite decent the times I have spoken to them, not as ... confrontational as your average CL officer.  

 

Could your friend have gone on the dole (Newstart) under option 1 before reaching pension age?  Or not possible with the overseas travel? 

That shows how ridiculous the situation is, they are forcing people to come back for 2 years, with not much chance of finding a job, so no alternative but to go on dole for the 2 years. 

If they make me return in a couple of years to do my time in the naughty corner, it will be a taxi from the airport to centerlink and straight on the dole. I have never been on the dole in my life but chances of finding a job at 65 will be slim to none.

[cheynewalk]

No, my friend was a cook.  He worked casually for a few months, then travelked a bit.  He actually did about 15 months in oz.  But yes, you could get the dole, but if you travel os it gets cutoff and you have to apply again.

[Will27]

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

That shows how ridiculous the situation is, they are forcing people to come back for 2 years, with not much chance of finding a job, so no alternative but to go on dole for the 2 years. 

If they make me return in a couple of years to do my time in the naughty corner, it will be a taxi from the airport to centerlink and straight on the dole. I have never been on the dole in my life but chances of finding a job at 65 will be slim to none.

I'm not sure how Newstart works TBH.

 

A mate of mine in his sixties was made redundant last year.

Hey got a pay out which equated to 3 months pay.

 

They wouldn't grant him payments because of his payout

so he basically had to use his money before it started.

 

Was hard as he doesn't have much in the bank and the payout

was a buffer he wanted to keep.

 

He had never been on the dole his whole life and then had to start

looking for a job at 63.

 

He's just waiting for 2 more years until he can retire to Thailand.

[sceadugenga]

9 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

That shows how ridiculous the situation is, they are forcing people to come back for 2 years, with not much chance of finding a job, so no alternative but to go on dole for the 2 years. 

If they make me return in a couple of years to do my time in the naughty corner, it will be a taxi from the airport to centerlink and straight on the dole. I have never been on the dole in my life but chances of finding a job at 65 will be slim to none.

I saw this coming and spent quite a bit of time in Australia in the two or three years leading up to my Age Pension application.

I did a bit of house sitting, spent time with my old and very ill parents, helped out on a friends building site etc and the time just went.

I still managed about 5 or 6 months a year in Thailand.

 

I cannot see this requirement changing soon, I rattled a few cages and was advised by a politician I trusted to leave it alone, there were people in the corridors of power that did not want any pensioners living overseas.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

I saw this coming and spent quite a bit of time in Australia in the two or three years leading up to my Age Pension application.

I did a bit of house sitting, spent time with my old and very ill parents, helped out on a friends building site etc and the time just went.

I still managed about 5 or 6 months a year in Thailand.

 

I cannot see this requirement changing soon, I rattled a few cages and was advised by a politician I trusted to leave it alone, there were people in the corridors of power that did not want any pensioners living overseas.

I agree, its not likely to change.

What they fail to see is the net gain from having pensioner live overseas, less hospital beds, less seats on public transport, less subsidised car registration, council rates, electricity etc. Not to mention aged care costs.

A quick calculation on the back of a beer coaster would show the Net gain.

 

 

[steven100]

14 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

people in the corridors of power that did not want any pensioners living overseas.

I guess that's the same meaning as political scum.

[Peterw42]

36 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I'm not sure how Newstart works TBH.

 

A mate of mine in his sixties was made redundant last year.

Hey got a pay out which equated to 3 months pay.

 

They wouldn't grant him payments because of his payout

so he basically had to use his money before it started.

 

Was hard as he doesn't have much in the bank and the payout

was a buffer he wanted to keep.

 

He had never been on the dole his whole life and then had to start

looking for a job at 63.

 

He's just waiting for 2 more years until he can retire to Thailand.

Friend has been given incorrect information, you can have assets, savings etc and still get newstart ($400,000 for a non house owner).. Moving the payout money to super would also make it not subject to asset test.

Cash on hand can affect the waiting period until first payment (up to a couple of months) but not the eligibility.

Centerlink is very good at advising, you probably wont get newstart, not worth applying, when you are eligible etc

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Peterw42

[Will27]

9 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Friend has been given incorrect information, you can have assets, savings etc and still get newstart ($400,000 for a non house owner).. Moving the payout money to super would also make it not subject to asset test.

Cash on hand can affect the waiting period until first payment (up to a couple of months) but not the eligibility.

Centerlink is very good at advising, you probably wont get newstart, not worth applying, when you are eligible etc

 

All he told me, was that when he filled out the application form and advised he had a 3 month payout, they told him payments wouldn't start pretty much for 8 weeks.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Will27 said:

All he told me, was that when he filled out the application form and advised he had a 3 month payout, they told him payments wouldn't start pretty much for 8 weeks.

Yes, thats the cash on hand thing, easy to get around that if the money is invested, stock market or similar (not liquid).

Cash on hand doesnt mean you need to spend it before you can get the dole, its just means the wait for first payment will be longer. People confuse it as they have to spend the money.

[UncleMhee]

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

 

He had never been on the dole his whole life and then had to start

looking for a job at 63.

 

He's just waiting for 2 more years until he can retire to Thailand.

Just a heads up to anyone thinking OAP kicks in at 65. Please refer to chart:-

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension/who-can-get-it

Edited November 22, 2019 by UncleMhee

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, UncleMhee said:

Just a heads up to anyone thinking OAP kicks in at 65. Please refer to chart:-

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension/who-can-get-it

 

Thanks for that info.  What confuses me is the status of folks born in Australia (1945), lived all my life in Australia until say age 50 / early fifties, then worked abroad.

 

Capture from the link above:

 

 

The table in the link above doesn't go back as far as 1945, so can you please advise me the status of folks born before the table starts.

 

Thanks. 

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by scorecard

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

The table in the link above doesn't go back as far as 1945, so can you please advise me the status of folks born before the table starts.

 

Thanks. 

Beyond those dates you are already at the current retirement age. 1945, you would 74 years old, way past any retirement age.

[sceadugenga]

Your status is that you can return to Australia and claim the Age Pension but you wont get portability for 2 years.

The amount of pension that will be paid overseas will also only be a percentage based on 35 years Australian Working Life Residency, for example if you only worked 25 years in Australia (Assumed to start at age 15) only 25/35 (as a percentage) is portable.

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

Your status is that you can return to Australia and claim the Age Pension but you wont get portability for 2 years.

The amount of pension that will be paid overseas will also only be a percentage based on 35 years Australian Working Life Residency, for example if you only worked 25 years in Australia (Assumed to start at age 15) only 25/35 (as a percentage) is portable.

 

Thanks to all, much appreciated.

 

From 16th birthday to date of leaving Australia to work abroad I was in Australia full time for 37 years, so looks like I'm OK for the full pension and my assets and income are well under the threshold.

 

Just need to get the '2 years detention' (as another poster calls it) squared away.

 

Several weeks back I called Centrelink in Hobart and was lucky enough to speak to a pleasant very focused lady who advised there are no totally specific time blocks regarding the 2 years, but she suggested initially staying in OZ about 5 months then take a holiday for a maximum of 10 days, then 4 to 5 months / 10 days repeating.

 

She also mentioned it's advisable to be able to prove house ownership or a rental agreement for 12 months in my name. 

 

She also mentioned that I should apply for rent assistance a few days after lodging the OAP claim.

 

And comments or further advice very welcome, and thanks. 

 

 

[UncleMhee]

36 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Beyond those dates you are already at the current retirement age. 1945, you would 74 years old, way past any retirement age.

Correct.

 

It is a revised table as the first cohort from 1st July 1952 to 1st January 1954 are now all retired as well.

The increases are in blocks of 18 months.

 

The unfortunate thing is, anyone born in 1945, leaving the country in their fifties to work overseas and if only returning now in their mid 70's to apply for OAP, they will be caught up in the 2 year fiasco, though will be entitled to a full pension because of AWLR, If they left at 51.

 

We seem to be damned if we do; damned if we don't; basically.

Edited November 22, 2019 by UncleMhee

[scorecard]

24 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

Correct.

 

It is a revised table as the first cohort from 1st July 1952 to 1st January 1954 are now all retired as well.

The increases are in blocks of 18 months.

 

The unfortunate thing is, anyone born in 1945, leaving the country in their fifties to work overseas and if only returning now in their mid 70's to apply for OAP, they will be caught up in the 2 year fiasco, though will be entitled to a full pension because of AWLR, If they left at 51.

 

We seem to be damned if we do; damned if we don't; basically.

 

24 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

Correct.

 

It is a revised table as the first cohort from 1st July 1952 to 1st January 1954 are now all retired as well.

The increases are in blocks of 18 months.

 

The unfortunate thing is, anyone born in 1945, leaving the country in their fifties to work overseas and if only returning now in their mid 70's to apply for OAP, they will be caught up in the 2 year fiasco, though will be entitled to a full pension because of AWLR, If they left at 51.

 

We seem to be damned if we do; damned if we don't; basically.

Yes, my post above #3466. 

[LosLobo]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Friend has been given incorrect information

What was the incorrect information that his friend was given?

 

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, thats the cash on hand thing, easy to get around that if the money is invested, stock market or similar (not liquid).

Actually money invested in stock market shares is classed as a liquid asset.

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/1/1/l/50

[nev]

7 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Depends on your year of birth, they set that out years ago.

Yes that's why it has been going up, I was all planed for 67 then they added. Another 6 months.

 

[rhodie]

29 minutes ago, nev said:

Yes that's why it has been going up, I was all planed for 67 then they added. Another 6 months.

 

Please show a link to this. There is no increase over 67 that I have seen. Refer to the chart above.

[Peterw42]

3 hours ago, LosLobo said:

What was the incorrect information that his friend was given?

 

Actually money invested in stock market shares is classed as a liquid asset.

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/1/1/l/50

The guys friend was saying he was told he "couldnt get newstart until payout was spent", in reality he could ,just had to wait .

 

Yes, stock market is considered a liquid asset, I was more just trying to give an example of a non-liquid asset.

[UncleMhee]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Yes, my post above #3466. 

Yes @scorecard my response was intended for #3463, your particular situation and the possibly of 70+ year old returning to claim; having never claimed before. I hope it all goes well for you.

Edited November 22, 2019 by UncleMhee

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

Yes @scorecard my response was intended for #3463, your particular situation and the possibly of 70+ year old returning to claim; having never claimed before. I hope it all goes well for you.

Thanks, are you aware of any specific negatives re applying at 70+. Just curiosity.  I've tried to search on this point but couldn't find anything.

Edited November 22, 2019 by scorecard

[nev]

5 hours ago, rhodie said:

Please show a link to this. There is no increase over 67 that I have seen. Refer to the chart above.

Hi mate, I heard a few years ago they was going to extend and maybe it didn't pass I hope so,  I have just doneba search and it seems I will recieve the pension at 66 years 8 months instead  of 67years 6 months the date I thought I was. 

I am very happy if that's true. 

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The guys friend was saying he was told he "couldnt get newstart until payout was spent", in reality he could ,just had to wait .

 

In fact the poster actually said "They wouldn't grant him payments because of his payout so he basically had to use his money before it started."

 

This is correct information and is in line with Newstart waiting time policy. 

 

Also Newstart waiting periods for redundancy are based on both Liquid Assets Waiting period (LAWP) and Income Maintenance Period (IMP) legislation.

 

Redundancy payments provide for a period of unemployment, leave credits etc. I doubt if you would get a Newstart payment when you already have been provided income for this period.

 

Transferring your after tax redundancy or ETP to superannution (rollovers are not permitted) may reduce your LAWP but not your IMP.

[UncleMhee]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Thanks, are you aware of any specific negatives re applying at 70+. Just curiosity.  I've tried to search on this point but couldn't find anything.

Edited 2 hours ago by scorecard

No, not that I'm aware of; other than what you are already aware of. If you meet the age and residency requirements, you are entitled to OAP. The amount is subject to income and assets test.

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/topics/income-test-pensions/30406

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension/how-much-you-can-get/assets-test/assets#assetstestlimits

[moojar]

1 hour ago, nev said:

Hi mate, I heard a few years ago they was going to extend and maybe it didn't pass I hope so,  I have just doneba search and it seems I will recieve the pension at 66 years 8 months instead  of 67years 6 months the date I thought I was. 

I am very happy if that's true. 

You're right - increasing the age to 70 never passed the Senate and they (the Libs) dropped the policy last year. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/scott-morrison-scraps-plans-to-raise-pension-age-to-70/10202678

 

They recently ruled it out again in relation to the 'review of Australia's retirement income system' they're about to conduct.  

https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/superannuation/2019/09/30/scott-morrison-retirement-review/

 

So whatever the tables tell you is your pension age, that's it: 

Quote

If you were born between	you qualify for Age Pension at age
1 July 1952 to 31 December 1953	65 years and 6 months
1 January 1954 to 30 June 1955	66 years
1 July 1955 to 31 December 1956	66 years and 6 months
From 1 January 1957	67 years

 

 

 

[RJRS1301]

14 hours ago, moojar said:

Thanks Cheynewalk, good to hear of people's actual recent experiences. 

 

Those Hobart folk seem quite decent the times I have spoken to them, not as ... confrontational as your average CL officer.  

 

Could your friend have gone on the dole (Newstart) under option 1 before reaching pension age?  Or not possible with the overseas travel? 

Newstart means mutual obligation restriction, must be actively seeking work. Allowed os for very limited time per year.

[AussieBob18]

On 11/23/2019 at 12:41 AM, RJRS1301 said:

Newstart means mutual obligation restriction, must be actively seeking work. Allowed os for very limited time per year.

All true. What that means in practice is that the person must apply for a number of jobs each month (usually 20) - which is easily done on-line these days - and attend 1-2 x 5 minute interviews per month at a Job Provider (which can be done over the phone if they agree).  Newstart people are allowed to leave the country for 4-5 weeks - payments stop while out of country and recommence when re-enter country. If newstart person leaves for more than about 6 weeks, their allowance is ceased and they have to re-apply for Newstart (usual conditions and waiting periods apply).

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by AussieBob18