14 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Residency issues aside, so just talking about totally legit tax residents, you should just clarify here that the age pension certainly is taxable if you’re on a part pension and have sufficient other income. There is a tax offset to reduce this, but I don’t even receive any of that as my total income is too high, only just enough to get me a small part age pension.

Not just for those on a part pension.

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/government-payments-and-allowances

Taxable pensions, payments and allowances

You must include taxable Australian Government pensions, payments and allowances in your tax return.

Taxable government payments, pensions and allowances include:

• age pension

• carer payment

• Austudy payment

• Commonwealth Prac Payment (CPP) – available from 1 July 2025

• JobSeeker payment

• Youth allowance

• veteran payment

• invalidity service pension, if you are age-pension age or over

• disability support pension, if you are age-pension age or over

• income support supplement

• parenting payment (partnered)

• disaster recovery allowance.

This is not an exhaustive list, for a full list of Australian Government payments, pensions and allowances, see:

• Australian Government allowances and payments

No contact from the ATO since 2021.

4 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Not just for those on a part pension.

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/government-payments-and-allowances

Taxable pensions, payments and allowances

You must include taxable Australian Government pensions, payments and allowances in your tax return.

Taxable government payments, pensions and allowances include:

• age pension

Yes, I think the point here is that just about everything’s taxable, but if your total income’s low enough (only if you’re a tax resident!), tax free threshold, tax offsets and rebates mean you’ll actually pay zero tax.

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

No contact from the ATO since 2021.

Loophole will close once the proposed changes are passed into legislation.

You can expect contact from the ATO.

Once again, you are living in the past, as if you were still a resident of Australia for tax purposes. That's fine, I do to. Never paid a cent of non resident tax, yet generate an income in Australia, however, I can see the wide implications of the proposed changes, whereas, you think after they are passed it will still be business as usual.

You are a non resident for tax purposes. The pension is deemed taxable income. The proposed changes are designed to enhance enforcement. Change s coming.

Yes, you are a small fish, but the legislation will not differentiate between small and big fish. The computer data base will spit out the names of the wealthy, and the not so wealthy. No free passes.

2 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Yes, I think the point here is that just about everything’s taxable, but if your total income’s low enough (only if you’re a tax resident!), tax free threshold, tax offsets and rebates mean you’ll actually pay zero tax.

That's the point I have being trying to make to members.

Yes, in Australia, as an Australian resident for tax purposes, no tax on the aged pension. No argument from me on that.

However, as a non resident for tax purposes, below are the tax brackets. No tax free threshold. No exemptions for pensions / pensioners, and as you correctly point out, the aged pension is taxable.

Many just seem to think nothing will change after the proposed changes are passed into legislation, but the reason why they were proposed, and will be passed, is because they collect tax off people that should be paying, who haven't been paying.

To be honest, I seriously thought they would add an exemption for pensions, but they didn't. What's that tell you????

Foreign resident tax rates 2020 to 2026 Foreign resident tax rates for 2019–20 to 2025–26. Foreign resident tax rates 2025–26 Taxable income Tax on this income 0 – $135,000 30c for each $1 $135,001 – $190,000 $40,500 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000 $190,001 and over $60,850 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,000

Request to Moderators – Repeated Posting of Unpassed Legislation

Hi Mods,

Could I ask that posts about the proposed legislation regarding taxing pensions of Australians living overseas be restricted or paused until there is clear confirmation that the legislation has actually passed, including a commencement date?

This topic has been discussed exhaustively on the forum for years, yet it remains unchanged, unpassed, and speculative. At this point it’s no longer adding value—only recycling the same hypothetical arguments and causing unnecessary confusion and anxiety, particularly for pensioners.

One member in particular repeatedly resurrects this subject despite there being no new facts, no bill passed, and no implementation timeline. The issue has well and truly been done to death.

Perhaps the forum could require:

• a confirmed Act of Parliament, or

• a legislated start date

before allowing new threads on this topic.

Until then, these posts amount to speculation rather than useful information.

Thanks for considering it.

100% agree.

14 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Request to Moderators – Repeated Posting of Unpassed Legislation

Hi Mods,

Could I ask that posts about the proposed legislation regarding taxing pensions of Australians living overseas be restricted or paused until there is clear confirmation that the legislation has actually passed, including a commencement date?

This topic has been discussed exhaustively on the forum for years, yet it remains unchanged, unpassed, and speculative. At this point it’s no longer adding value—only recycling the same hypothetical arguments and causing unnecessary confusion and anxiety, particularly for pensioners.

One member in particular repeatedly resurrects this subject despite there being no new facts, no bill passed, and no implementation timeline. The issue has well and truly been done to death.

Perhaps the forum could require:

• a confirmed Act of Parliament, or

• a legislated start date

before allowing new threads on this topic.

Until then, these posts amount to speculation rather than useful information.

Thanks for considering it.

Professionals are still discussing it, and warning their clients.

Here's a new one from the first page of a Google search. It's dated 26th November 2025, so less than 2 months old.

https://www.aimsaustralia.com.au/australias-new-tax-reality-strict-professional-compliance-meets-proposed-residency-reforms/

"Current Treasury updates suggest these measures, if enacted, would likely not commence until 1July 2026 at the earliest."

You do realize expat pensioners are non residents for tax purposes, and should have already been paying non resident tax, don't you? I have posted several links from the ATO and youtube videos about it.

So, it's not only what you will be paying, it's what you should already be paying.

24 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Professionals are still discussing it, and warning their clients.

Here's a new one from the first page of a Google search. It's dated 26th November 2025, so less than 2 months old.

https://www.aimsaustralia.com.au/australias-new-tax-reality-strict-professional-compliance-meets-proposed-residency-reforms/

"Current Treasury updates suggest these measures, if enacted, would likely not commence until 1July 2026 at the earliest."

You do realize expat pensioners are non residents for tax purposes, and should have already been paying non resident tax, don't you? I have posted several links from the ATO and youtube videos about it.

So, it's not only what you will be paying, it's what you should already be paying.

They are accountants trying to scare people into using their services. Actually very unprofessional behavior.

Expat pensioners can remain tax residents, saying otherwise is just misinformation.

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Professionals are still discussing it, and warning their clients.

Here's a new one from the first page of a Google search. It's dated 26th November 2025, so less than 2 months old.

https://www.aimsaustralia.com.au/australias-new-tax-reality-strict-professional-compliance-meets-proposed-residency-reforms/

"Current Treasury updates suggest these measures, if enacted, would likely not commence until 1July 2026 at the earliest."

You do realize expat pensioners are non residents for tax purposes, and should have already been paying non resident tax, don't you? I have posted several links from the ATO and youtube videos about it.

So, it's not only what you will be paying, it's what you should already be paying.

And the 'beat his meat' goes on and on! Almost certifiable behaviour from this member who is not aged pensioner, doubt an actual expat and prob not dinky Oz. either!

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

They are accountants trying to scare people into using their services. Actually very unprofessional behavior.

If an accountant puts the tax law in front of you and says, "You should be paying this tax." Is he wrong? Is he scaremongering? Is he unprofessional? He can be creative with his accounting, but he can't change the law, and advising you to go outside the law, or around the law, thus evade paying tax, is not only unprofessional, but criminal.

In the above last few posts I have put links to the ATO Community Forum where three separate people asked ATO staff if they had to pay non resident tax on their pensions if they moved overseas. All three answered yes. The ATO doesn't sell any services. Are those staff members unprofessional?

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Expat pensioners can remain tax residents, saying otherwise is just misinformation.

Currently, I am still a resident of Australia for tax purposes, despite living in Thailand full time. I generate an income in Australia. I have maintained a domicile (house) in Australia, still have some utility bills in my name, maintained some memberships and subscriptions to clubs, still own a car, have regular contact with friends and family etc etc. By doing so, I can show an "intention" of returning to Australia to live.

Some years ago, the ATO actually went guys like me and lost a lot of cases. The reason why they lost was it is difficult to prove "intent" as it goes to a state of mind, and if you simply stay "I will be moving back to Australia" then the loophole/s in the current 90 year old laws allows you to remain a tax resident of Australia.

The guys who have sold up and moved their life savings to Thailand would have a difficult time proving they have the intention of returning to Australia to live.

So, how does the ATO catch people who have an income from Australia, and yes, the aged pension is taxable income (the law previously posted) and who live overseas permanently, whether they create the appearance of being domiciled in Australia, or not?

The ATO's answer was, a physical presence and time based tax residency model, similar to Thailand, and many other countries. The proposed changes placing the time at 183 day a year. You can't ask for a review and you can't appeal it. Outside Australia 183 days and you are a non resident for tax purposes.

I asked this question some time ago. No one answered. I'll ask you.

When the proposed changes are passed into legislation, how do you propose to remain a resident of Australia for tax purposes when you live in Thailand full time?

The best scenario members could come up with, and I agree, is doing 46 days in Australia every year, as the proposed changes state 45 days to 183 days then moves to meeting 2 out of 4 factor tests, and one is really easy, being an Aussie citizen.

The law isn't going to change. It's always been there. What will change in the ATO's ability to enforce the law.

12 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

If an accountant puts the tax law in front of you and says, "You should be paying this tax." Is he wrong? Is he scaremongering? Is he unprofessional? He can be creative with his accounting, but he can't change the law, and advising you to go outside the law, or around the law, thus evade paying tax, is not only unprofessional, but criminal.

ITS NOT LAW !!!!

What part of "proposed, unchanged, unpassed, and speculative" dont you understand ?

Why do you insist on posting this stuff, that will most likely never happen?

Im with @Nemises , this rubbish should be stopped, it just wastes everybody's time

On 1/22/2026 at 2:53 AM, Peterw42 said:

ITS NOT LAW !!!!

What part of "proposed, unchanged, unpassed, and speculative" dont you understand ?

Why do you insist on posting this stuff, that will most likely never happen?

Im with @Nemises , this rubbish should be stopped, it just wastes everybody's time

IT IS LAW that you should already be paying non resident tax as an pensioner living in Thailand full time.

See above links from an ATO forum. Three staff members inform the posters they will have to pay non resident tax on their pension.

See the youtube video from an industry professional I posted. She says the same.

The law is already in place for pensioners to pay non resident tax.

The below IS THE LAW.

Foreign residents

If you're a foreign resident for tax purposes you must declare on your tax return any income earned in Australia, including:

• employment income

• rental income

• Australian pensions and annuities

• capital gains on taxable Australian property.

Exceptions to this include:

• foreign residents earning employment income working on the Pacific Labour Mobility (PALM) scheme

• working holiday makers who in some circumstances will not need to declare income earned in Australia.

As a foreign resident:

• you have no tax-free threshold

• you don't pay the Medicare levy – in your Australian tax return, you can claim an exemption from paying the Medicare levy for the number of days in the income year you are a foreign resident

• you don’t declare any Australian-sourced interest, dividends or royalties you derive while you are a foreign resident, provided the Australian financial institution or company that pays you has already withheld tax

• the capital gain on your Australian home may need to be included if you are a foreign resident at the time you sign the contract of sale

• you may meet the definition of a foreign person and need foreign investment approvalExternal Link before purchasing residential land and other Australian assetsExternal Link.

If you have a Higher Education Loan Program (HELP), VET Student Loan (VSL) or Australian Apprenticeship Support Loan (AASL) debt, you'll need to declare your worldwide income or lodge a non-lodgment advice. You can do this using our online services through myGov or through a registered Australian tax agent. The study and training loan repayment calculator will help you find out your compulsory repayment or overseas levy amounts.

For more information about your study and training loan repayment obligations if you plan to live and work overseas, see Overseas obligations when repaying loans.

See 408 Pandemic event visa if you were issued a 408 visa to stay in Australia and continued working during the COVID-19 pandemic. The 408 visa program closed to new applications on 1 February 2024.

To work out if you need to lodge, use our Do I need to lodge a tax return? tool.

We have all been getting away with it for decades. All the proposed changes will do is allow the government to enforce the law.

You think it's a new law that will tax pensioners living overseas, it's not.

The proposed changes will be new laws that will enable the government to force pensioners living overseas to pay tax, and others, such as myself, and guys like Paul Hogan, of course. 🙂

This guy also explains it quite well. He's a qualified accountant, based in Bangkok, I believe.

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

IT IS LAW <snip>

I'm pretty sure (no, I'm 100% sure) that he was referring to this potential new law to close the residence loophole, which may or may not be enacted. In fact you even quoted him doing so, but chose to shout about something else (current law) to twist the narrative yet again.

On 1/22/2026 at 2:13 AM, Olmate said:

And the 'beat his meat' goes on and on! Almost certifiable behaviour from this member who is not aged pensioner, doubt an actual expat and prob not dinky Oz. either!

I'm self funded, so not on an aged pension. I have openly stated this before.

I'm an expat, living in Pattaya. I go back to Australia for family events like births, weddings etc, but live in Thailand full time.

I have a house, car, furniture etc in Australia, and my son is living in the house and takes care of the car. The utility bills are in my name, but he pays the bills. I'm still a member of the local RSL. I have Australian bank accounts and maintain an Australian telco sim card. I have created the appearance of having every "intention" of returning to Australia in the future to live full time, when in reality, I will not be.

The 183 days physically outside of Australia will catch everyone, including pensioners, as there are no exemptions, thus, I alerted pensioners to the changes, and have been personally attacked ever since.

I am an Australian citizen. Born in Australia.

How is the above relevant to me posting on this thread?

4 minutes ago, treetops said:

I'm pretty sure (no, I'm 100% sure) that he was referring to this potential new law to close the residence loophole, which may or may not be enacted. In fact you even quoted him doing so, but chose to shout about something else (current law) to twist the narrative yet again.

I will clarify then.

The proposed changes are currently NOT THE LAW. They were proposed by Liberal, and progressed by Labor. They are NOT YET LAW, and I have never said they were passed into law, thus, active legislation. I hope I have made that part clear now.

What currently IS THE LAW is expat pensioners who are non residents for tax purposes, and I would suggest that's most, as many haven't been back to Australia in years, should already be paying non resident tax on their pension. That IS THE LAW. I have posted many links from the ATO and some youtube videos from tax professionals.

Once again, the proposed changes to tax residency IS NOT A NEW TAX. The proposed changes to tax resident will just make it super easy for the government to

enforce / collect taxes that they have been unable to in the past, due to many loopholes in the current 90 year old tax residency laws.

I can not make it any clearer.

On 1/22/2026 at 1:13 PM, Olmate said:

And the 'beat his meat' goes on and on! Almost certifiable behaviour from this member who is not aged pensioner, doubt an actual expat and prob not dinky Oz. either!

Oh don't be jealous just because he is a self funded retiree and you didn't work a day in your life so have to rely on my taxes for your old aged pension

Aren't you in shame about that ?

No money saved

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

I can not make it any clearer.

We've all got that, but you replied to a post talking about the potential new law and discussed only the existing law.

Only you know why you did that.

Unless you’re getting some perverse enjoyment out of it, I can’t see why anyone keeps encouraging this guy.
Might I suggest — just block him and move on.
There’s a real reason these idioms exist:
Don’t feed trolls — they thrive on attention.
Never wrestle with a pig — you both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it.
Don’t argue with idiots — they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Don’t cast pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6 — for the biblically inclined).

1 minute ago, LosLobo said:

Unless you’re getting some perverse enjoyment out of it, I can’t see why anyone keeps encouraging this guy.
Might I suggest — just block him and move on.
There’s a real reason these idioms exist:
Don’t feed trolls — they thrive on attention.
Never wrestle with a pig — you both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it.
Don’t argue with idiots — they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Don’t cast pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6 — for the biblically inclined).

Agree on all points. I put the errant clown on 'ignore' perhaps 3 years ago.

Just now, scorecard said:

Agree on all points. I put the errant clown on 'ignore' (which is very easy to do, takes less than 5 seconds) perhaps 3 years ago.

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Agree on all points. I put the errant clown on 'ignore' (which is very easy to do, takes less than 5 seconds) perhaps 3 years ago.

Could you please add me to your ignore list too , thanks

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Agree on all points. I put the errant clown on 'ignore' perhaps 3 years ago.

If you put me on ignore, how do you know what my post is about, and whether or not it adds value to the thread????

1 hour ago, georgegeorgia said:

Could you please add me to your ignore list too , thanks

I've asked the member to add me to his ignore list several times, but he keeps reading my posts and then post "thumbs down." 😂

3 hours ago, treetops said:

We've all got that, but you replied to a post talking about the potential new law and discussed only the existing law.

Only you know why you did that.

Only the other member knows WHICH LAW he was really referring to.

He said, "IT'S NOT LAW" when the law that says pensioners living overseas who are non residents for tax purposes already exists, thus, he should have akready been paying non resident tax. 🙂

3 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Unless you’re getting some perverse enjoyment out of it, I can’t see why anyone keeps encouraging this guy.
Might I suggest — just block him and move on.
There’s a real reason these idioms exist:
Don’t feed trolls — they thrive on attention.
Never wrestle with a pig — you both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it.
Don’t argue with idiots — they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Don’t cast pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6 — for the biblically inclined).

I agree.

Let those who wish to discuss the proposed legislation, that will have the biggest impact on expat pensioners in decades, free from trolls, personal attacks, baiting, flaming etc.

Those in fear of the changes, to the point they shoot the messenger, need not post at all. Simple, really.

Those that wish to continually post about the 2 years and portability, YAWN, can continue to do so.

The same with those that wish to post about the Centerlink phone number in Hobart, by all means. keep posting the same phone number, over and over. It's fine.

This thread can have something for everyone.

2 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Could you please add me to your ignore list too , thanks

I think you are on many people's ignore list.

I don't ignore anyone if that's any consolation.

I listen to all comments, even from people I consider idiots.

4 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Oh don't be jealous just because he is a self funded retiree and you didn't work a day in your life so have to rely on my taxes for your old aged pension

Aren't you in shame about that ?

No money saved

Many Australians share your sentiment towards a certain demographic of pensioner.

I am no fan of a system that allows able bodied Australians to collect welfare their whole life.

There is also another demographic of pensioner, those that worked in the "cash: economy or "black" economy that made good money, and never paid a cent in tax.

Basically, they worked for what's known as "cash in hand" with no records of the employment and remuneration at all. Many did alright for themselves, hid the money away, and then went cap in hand to Centerlink at retirement age. Some even collected the dole whilst working.

These people are criminals, and there would be a few on this thread, and then they have the hide to object paying non resident tax on their pension, when they have never paid a cent of tax in their life.

24 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

I don't ignore anyone if that's any consolation.

I listen to all comments, even from people I consider idiots.

I'm the same.

I also have never reported a post as I believe in freedom of speech. This is something some members have taken advantage of.

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

I've asked the member to add me to his ignore list several times, but he keeps reading my posts and then post "thumbs down." 😂

He is only looking at it "one more time " he promises himself ...then does it again !