This was brought to my attention by a local friend i9n Chiang Mai. It was posted HERE and originated as an anonymous reader's submission to Stickman.

I think it makes interesting reading:

When I just arrived, 22 odd years ago, to stay in Thailand, after

various visits all was heaven to me. People nice, the country

beautiful, the weather great and the women lovely etc. etc. Then I

lived here for a while and the work I was doing (I only had to really

do something about 5 days a month) was boring me in the sense that it

clogged up my brain to sit on the beach and see the same ol' girls

with the same ol' farangs sit there every day until the dude was drunk

(around 1 pm) and later see her with the Thai boyfriend at the market,

spending the farangs' money....

I moved to Bangkok for a while (Soi 65 to be exact) but the city was

too much of a city to me.... As I wasn't bound I moved to Chiang Mai,

after all, the second city of Thailand. Got a nice place in town and

enjoyed the life. The best of both worlds: The nice and charming

atmosphere and food from Asia, and all the "good stuff" from the West

(such as Italian food and delicatessen).

And as yourself, Stickman, when I got myself a nice girl I moved

slightly out of town and started "gathering stuff". Life was simple

before that moment. During those years I tried to adjust in every way.

But no matter what I did I would always be "the farang that lives on

the corner". ######, it even happened that inside the Moobaan (compound)

where I'd been living for years the little shops tried to rip me off

when I was buying food for my daughter. The fact that it was still

happening, no matter what, was frustrating. You'd have to make a fuss

about it whereas any other person living here would just go out and

get the food he wanted at the right price. Mind you: These were the

same people that would so lovely, wave at you and your daughter

whenever you'd pass by... In a sense it was good and it made me

realize what some other discriminated groups in the world must feel

like, because I have never been a part of that (inflicting it) I also

didn't know or encounter how that'd feel like. Thailand has invented

discrimination!

Here I was, speaking Thai, reading and writing Thai, after years of

practice and study (I was a Buddhist since I was 15) teaching Buddhism

and giving lectures all over the place, acting and behaving according

to Thai traditions and customs, and still not an accepted part of the

society I lived in.

One day, as I was changing house to a quieter area with a much larger

garden, I had to stay the night in a local hotel. I even knew the

owners but they weren't there. I knew the price was 800 baht for

locals and this is what I asked for, in Thai, fluently. I didn't get

it and was told there was no two tier pricing and everyone was paying

1400 baht. Next to me was a Chinese guy at check in. He didn't speak

Thai and hardly any English and he was without asking given the

800Baht price.... Of course it was a small riot and I didn't stay

there, the owners later on apologizing to me, but hey that's a

PRINCIPLE (a word that you will not find in a Thai dictionary, don't

bother looking it up...)

This was a turning point. After odd 8 years or so of behaving like a

Thai and feeling Thai I got fed up with the verbal abuse (you should

know the things they say that they think you don't understand when you

walk past with your wife, such as : "Nong, wai rue?" more or less

referring to the compatibility of sizes). So I changed my behavior. If

I wanted to live well in the country I love, in spite of everything

else, I would have to be ME. So I did, I started to behave and act as

a farang. Did exactly what I wanted to do. ######, I even swim naked in

my own pool or walk in underwear through the garden. Life is simple.

And you know what they say? The farang on the corner..... Nothing has

changed except my own attitude. I wanted to share this just to let

some people that think they understand and are wrangling themselves in

difficult positions to be accepted know, you better NOT adjust, it

will not be appreciated for what it is.

If in Europe a Thai girl speaks the language fluently and adjusts to

society, she is accepted as one of the locals. Here that is virtually

impossible, unless you have got Asian looks. Funny that the people in

Government making things difficult for the farangs living here are all

of Chinese descent. Ever wondered about that one? So my advice: Do as

you please, live happy, don't bother being accepted ('cause you won't

be...only in the small group that really know you), do what you feel

is right and enjoy this country for what it is.

#snip#

--

Comment: I too have come to realise this. I am not Thai and I will

never be. Trying to please the locals by becoming a thai-inised farang

leads nowhere. You can live here for 50 years and still be regarded as

a foreigner.

If I had moved to, say, Australia instead I could have integrated in

society and received the rights and obligations of a citizen. Both

legally and informally among locals I could be counted as one of them.

This is not possible in Thailand. This means that while I would regard

myself as an immigrant in Australia I don't in Thailand. I am merely a

long term tourist of a kind, neither a visitor nor a resident.

For a while I would have patriotic feelings on behalf of Thailand,

cheering the country so to speak. This would turn to resentment as I

discovered the depth of the cheating, the corruption, power abuse and

general nonsense that is going on here. It was tempting to think that

Thais deserve the society they have. But then again, despite the

impressive number of bullies, criminals, crooks and swindlers there

are good innocent people here too and they deserve better.

I prefer to adopt the aspects of Thai culture that I agree with, such

as certain manners (no teeth picking without hiding your mouth or not

dwelling too much on the negative in conversation), while ignoring

other aspects, such as the excessive respect given to any fool that

happens to be in a senior position. To me it is a mystery how Thais

can listen to the BS they are told by senior figures like certain

government ministers without throwing rotten tomatoes or burst out

laughing.

We farang have to be true to ourselves. Keep the best of Western

values such as insisting on the truth and respecting people for their

character rather than their position. And reject the horrible Thai

class system and the snobbery that goes with it by remembering that

all people are equal.

I am not Thai and I will

never be. Trying to please the locals by becoming a thai-inised farang

leads nowhere. You can live here for 50 years and still be regarded as

a foreigner.

Yep, that's the way it is and no amount of rationalizing or complaining is going to change this ever.

And, it's no big deal if you recognize this fact and live like a farang with your Thai wife or GF and conduct yourself with circumspect.

Nothing new here- Asians are an exclusive club where a westerner can never deem worthy enough of entering.

Nothing new here- Asians are an exclusive club where a westerner can never deem worthy enough of entering.

Guess Kipling said it best, eh?

Just live your own life here. Stop allowing others to control you and how you feel. Control yourself.

There's no place in this world I'd rather be than here. If I can be happy and content here, then I think you can, too. Joe finally figured out that it was up to him to make himself happy, and not up to the Thais to make him happy.

Your worst enemy will always be yourself. Take your own responsibility and stop blaming everyone else for your life. That is just a one-way road to burnout and so much more bullshit.

Just maybe you can smile in the land of smiles

Just maybe you can have some days in the sun

Just maybe you can wear your rose colored glasses sometimes….most times…

Just maybe you will meet a few jing jais

Just maybe there is a path less traveled in LOS with some special rewards....

"If in Europe a Thai girl speaks the language fluently and adjusts to

society, she is accepted as one of the locals. "

Really? I think not.

I have to agree with Ajarn. I really don't care what others think of me. I just enjoy life as it is. I am generous with those I know and ask for nothing in return. I balance my budget so I stay within my means and always have a little left over at the end of the month. I enjoy giving what little money I have away. I certainly know that others need it more than me. I stay active and I'm physically fit so life seems to treat me well. I certainly don't lack for things to do and see, and I have more lady friends than any man could ever ask for. They all treat me very well... even for an old codger. I help others as best I can and if I get taken advantage of occasionally then that is their problem not mine. It doesn't take long to learn who is scamming you and who isn't. Those that do scam others get found out and get taken off the list of those that we will help. Maybe I just go through life with rose coloured glasses, but in doing so it makes ME very happy... and that is all that counts. I can easily tell who truly likes me and who just thinks I'm an ATM machine. That becomes their problem... not mine.

It doesn't matter if some old guy is being scammed by some cute little honey, just as long as the guy is happy. Who really cares if she has a Thai boyfriend on the side if the old guy paying the shot thinks he is getting value for his money. And, the miserable old cronies who like to gossip and think nasty thoughts deserve their own miserable existance. They are to be pitied, not scorned.

I don't EXPECT to be treated as an Asian. I don't mind the double standards and cast system here in Thailand. I don't worry about things that I can't change... even if they are racially motivated and unjust. I can live with all the visible problems because to me the good outweighs the bad. If I didn't think so I would stay home in Canada. To me, Thailand has become a second home and I love the place.

swiming in your own pool naked and walking in the garden in briefs:) I think the thais like us better this way, after all they know we will never be the same as them so why not be different. I have no desire to go native and really have no understanding of those that do.

Any particular reason for bumping a five year old thread

Any particular reason for bumping a five year old thread

I didn't even notice the original date. Thanks for pointing that out.

Any particular reason for bumping a five year old thread

An attempt to gauge where attitudes are now compared

to a time when the forum was fairly new…….

I thought Ianforbes response was profound……

How one feels about this subject seems to have a fundamental

impact on life here….interesting that views on this seem to be at the core

of and shape many of the threads and responses in the main forum….

Also I'm a newbie here and just taking some time to read some of

the older threads to get to know some of you guys…..

Also I'm a newbie here

3 years being a member is hardly a newbie. Not exactly a prolific poster, but not a newbie either

taking some time to read some of the older threads to get to know some of you guys…..

Fair enough

Also I'm a newbie here and just taking some time to read some of the older threads to get to know some of you guys…..

When you resurect an old thread like this most of the interesting characters posting there are usually long gone (mainly banned).

It was a different time, some would say more entertaining.

Also I'm a newbie here and just taking some time to read some of the older threads to get to know some of you guys…..

When you resurect an old thread like this most of the interesting characters posting there are usually long gone (mainly banned).

It was a different time, some would say more entertaining.

Yes I imagine back then no one quite knew how big of a business this would become and the need to enforce many rules and ban

folks so that the site could remain visible in Thailand. I've become a bedlam addict already....its been interesting to read what the

long timers in LOS think on a range of issues as well lots of jokes and good hearted humor. I think this thread has a lot more to

give and hope others will take time to share some of their wisdom on exactly how to live the good life here in the Kingdom of Thailand.

I am being myself these days - in Vietnam.

Don't think I will return to Thailand, except to collect my personal possessions and close my bank account.

Yes, there is still a scamming mentality here, but there is also a work ethic not found in LOS.

There are no go-go's, few bars with girls available, and those at tourist prices. But I have a plethora of girl-friends here and no problems with the locals.

Most younger VietNamese speak fair-to-god English.

Most VietNamese have an attitude similar to the Thais, but very much watered down - and they want to belong to the outside world.

But after a few years I will probably up sticks and wander off somewhere else - it's my wanderlust that is my problem, not the local racism.

I am being myself these days - in Vietnam.

Don't think I will return to Thailand, except to collect my personal possessions and close my bank account.

Yes, there is still a scamming mentality here, but there is also a work ethic not found in LOS.

There are no go-go's, few bars with girls available, and those at tourist prices. But I have a plethora of girl-friends here and no problems with the locals.

Most younger VietNamese speak fair-to-god English.

Most VietNamese have an attitude similar to the Thais, but very much watered down - and they want to belong to the outside world.

But after a few years I will probably up sticks and wander off somewhere else - it's my wanderlust that is my problem, not the local racism.

I've hung out in Vietnam also, I'm sure you are in for a interesting adventure. I found a fair amount of anti-american sentiment there.

The wounds of the war still seem fresh in the people I talked to. One museum I visited had war photos, one with the caption "here is another

Vietnamese being tortured by an American." There is always Cambodia for a future odyssey....watched many sunsets along the Mekong.

Roughly how long were you in Thailand before it stopped being what you wanted?

Considering the turmoil the USA put Vietnam through 40 years ago, I'm surprised that there isn't MORE resentment towards Americans in Vietnam. Fourty years is not enough time to heal the scars etched on the minds of the locals in Vietnam. Unfortunately, it is always the people who suffer the most that are the least to blame. Crooked South Vietnam leaders are most at fault in bringing the USA into the war, but that is all ancient history. All those that suffered can only see who was there perpetuating the war.

oddly, when I visited Vietnam (and also through talking to younger generation Vietnamese friends) - they dont focus too much about the War, or what the US did, but are more concerned and (open to) economic betterment, including through investment and job offers , and yes by US companies

oddly, when I visited Vietnam (and also through talking to younger generation Vietnamese friends) - they dont focus too much about the War, or what the US did, but are more concerned and (open to) economic betterment, including through investment and job offers , and yes by US companies

That's interesting....the people I talked to were older, I guess that explains some of the feedback I got. Vietnam seemed to be several generations

behind economically....they were trying to get their stock market going when I was there and then it tanked. I still have several million dong and nobody

will exchange it in LOS To broaden this discussion a little the instructions for a farang in southeast asia could be different in each country.

To me the biggest temptation is letting what you encounter cause the brain to shrink....i.e. become small minded and start painting with a very

broad brush....at that point it seems one begins to loose the joy of the experience here.

I first visited Thailand in the 1970s, but did not really take to it until the early 90s.

I spent three or four vacations a year diving off the Similans, 3-5 day liveaboards, then a week or so in Phuket, trips to Bangkok and Pattaya.

In the mid-90s I bought a bar and an apartment in Patong, ran it for a time, then went back to building refineries and power plants.

Sold up, moved to Pattaya at the end of the 90s.

Started workking in Vietnam a couple of years ago, find the people far more friendly than the Thais, find the country far more open to new ideas, not believing that they know best about everything.

I am building a power plant outside Saigon and we have a mixed crew there. One contractor employs Thai engineers for design. They are useless, are told their mistakes and poor design on a weekly basis, but refuse to change anything. I have British, Canadian, Australian, German, Roumanian and various other guys on the job, as well as VN engineers - all comment very adversely about the arrogance and ignorance of the Thais.

Totally different attitude by the Vietnamese engineers, who are paid far less and know far more.

A most enviable life Humphrey Bear. It seems that the Vietnamese people are hungry for change and

willing to do whatever it takes to bring that about. Maybe some in Thailand take it for granted and

are letting it slip away. You bring up what I think is one of the keys to a farang life in Asia,

having a financial component to the equation. One can certainly survive without it but it indeed

makes things a lot easier when business keeps you in the region. I manufacture jewelry and sell

from Toronto to Miami….been doing it for 20 plus years and its carried me around the planet many

times and opened many doors in southeast asia. I am doing a line of ladies dresses now for export.

Visited some of the factories in Vietnam most of which were ran by the Chinese. I think that's

something Thailand has underestimated as China extends its reach in lower Asia there will continue

to be an erosion in the competitive advantage that the Kingdom has enjoyed for many years.

A most enviable life Humphrey Bear. It seems that the Vietnamese people are hungry for change and

willing to do whatever it takes to bring that about. Maybe some in Thailand take it for granted and

are letting it slip away. You bring up what I think is one of the keys to a farang life in Asia,

having a financial component to the equation. One can certainly survive without it but it indeed

makes things a lot easier when business keeps you in the region. I manufacture jewelry and sell

from Toronto to Miami….been doing it for 20 plus years and its carried me around the planet many

times and opened many doors in southeast asia. I am doing a line of ladies dresses now for export.

Visited some of the factories in Vietnam most of which were ran by the Chinese. I think that's

something Thailand has underestimated as China extends its reach in lower Asia there will continue

to be an erosion in the competitive advantage that the Kingdom has enjoyed for many years.

Agreed - China's influence in VN is quite strong - several of the power plants under our supervision have Chinese contractors, and a lot of the product in shops is 'made in China'. But the VietNamese are trying to 'go it alone' as far as they can - getting World Bank and ADB loans where they can.

I do like this country, having worked/lived in Hong Kong (the best), Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and Bangladesh (the worst), plus most Middle Eastern countries over the past 35 years.