The Avenue Shopping Mall

[NotNew2You]

I don't think the mall has much of a future as a retail/restaurant attraction. I think the better use would be as some type of "entertainment" plaza. By this, I mean a combination of family/couples entertainment, as already exists with the cinema, bowling and karaoke lounge AND a naughty nitelife component. For one thing, it already has the layout that would work for such a use and is in a good location.

The open-air layout, while a handicap for a pure retail/restaurant mall is ideal for an entertainment plaza. All the successful ones in Thailand are of an outdoor type (e.g., Walking Street, Nana, Cowboy, Patpong, Bangla).

Crossing Second Road is the problem in Pattaya - people will not come out of Soi post Office / Soi Yamato / RGP and walk across 2nd Road - they will drift North or South on the same side of the road

My model would be more like Nana or EDSA complex in Manila (except EDSA is enclosed). There already is a large entrance frontage on 2nd and bars and clubs would clearly be visible to folks walking around like they do at Nana. Heat, humidity, and rain would not be deterrents to the monger crowd. There could be some rules and regulations to keep it from degenerating into the squalor and sordid atmosphere you find around Nana or Cowboy, however.

If there is something interesting there, the "chickens" will cross the road. If it was really a problem, a pedestrian bridge could be built or even easier, speed bumps in the road.

[Jingthing]

How about making it a gay mall? Just change the name to The Gay Avenue, or perhaps Castro Street Far East. It's kind of frou frou there already and Boyztown is looking tatty these days. Plus they already have a gym, gourmet overpriced market, and a fab cinema. I think I just found the answer.

OK, maybe my idea is silly (so silly it might work?) but I really think making that place another beer bar/massage outlet is really, really bad!

Edited July 14, 2008 by Jingthing

[Alonso's Army]

I only go to the Avenue for Shenanigans and the first (and last) time I walked around the complex I was completely knackered.

[pnewso72]

Well not hard to figure out why its not doing business - outside which is a nonstarter for lot people and poor location.

You have Royal Garden right across the bloody street, and even the stores there dont have many customers. Demographics is all wrong. You have 3 malls within a few clicks of each other. This is the problem - not enough westerners to support them.

You hit the nail on the head Britmaveric. Iam not sure how that new mall just south of Central Pattaya Rd on 2nd Rd/Beach Rd is going stay stay afloat either.The rent that they are asking for just a small stall! You dont have to have the brains of an archbishop to realise that high rent, no customers equates to business failure.

[wpcoe]

It would be no loss to visitors and residents not interested in such entertainment as Central will be up and running soon and a few years later, the MBK mall (and others we have yet to hear about).

What's "the MBK mall?" Is it a MBK-type shopping mall, or just another mall mall that will be owned by the MBK family? And, where is it planned to be?

[Chaimai]

People seem to cross 2nd Road to go to Big C just fine, thank you.

... because there is a zebra crossing near there?

[Humphrey Bear]

People seem to cross 2nd Road to go to Big C just fine, thank you.

... because there is a zebra crossing near there?

There's also white lines painted on the road outside RGP - where I was hit by a mo'bike.

No - the real reasons are that Big C is worth crossing the road for (The Avebnue ain't) and that Big C is situated beyond Pattaya Klang and traffic is much less manic in that area - few parked cars, less cars entering / leaving the traffic stream - more gaps in the traffic.

[NotNew2You]

What's "the MBK mall?" Is it a MBK-type shopping mall, or just another mall mall that will be owned by the MBK family? And, where is it planned to be?

Supposedly another huge shopping mall/hotel/condo development (ala new Central mall) to be build in 4-5 years on the site of the Montien Hotel (their land lease is expiring).

[bkk_mike]

I cannot put my finger, specifically, on what I don't like but I just did not get a good feel for the place. At first I thought it was because there was nothing Thai, nothing cultural about it - it could have been in any major town/city.

I think "not user friendly" in this context means unwelcoming, characterless, dis-jointed, lacking ambience etc.

Forget Thai, Forget Cultural - what's that??!! The whole concept of an outdoor mall just doesn't work here PLUS there is NOT enough variety of vendors selling different and interesting stuff. It's same same, and boriiiiing!!!!!!!!!! The faux stone (Cement) floor looks unattractive, dirty and cheap!

Not quite true...

In Bangkok, you've got the Crystal which is an outdoor mall which seems to be doing quite well.

However, it's on a main road heading out to the suburbs, so is a useful place to stop and pick up shopping on the way home. (And they do have the misting sprays in the open areas to cool them down a bit...)

[JSixpack]

How about making it a gay mall? Just change the name to The Gay Avenue, or perhaps Castro Street Far East. It's kind of frou frou there already and Boyztown is looking tatty these days. Plus they already have a gym, gourmet overpriced market, and a fab cinema. I think I just found the answer.

OK, maybe my idea is silly (so silly it might work?) but I really think making that place another beer bar/massage outlet is really, really bad!

Better yet, how about an Arab mall? Such a growing Arab population these days. TAT is courting them to replace the old farangs anyway. Change the name to Mecca Avenue. Have flowing robes & burkha dress shop, Arab restaurants, mini-mosque, school, crotch rocket rental, beer bar w/ fat Thai ladies etc.

[begsaresponse]

We were in the Avenue on Saturday and the car park outside and inside was full with many cars double parked. As we strolled throught the complex it didn't seem overly busy!

I wondered if some people are using the car park so they can visit other places of entertainment over 2nd road!

[Rinrada]

The "new" mall would also benefit as the long-term trend is to kick-out the naughty places from prime beach front locations and the sois running between Beach and 2nd roads. It's only a matter of time when sois 7/8, Post Office, and Yamoto are redeveloped into hotels and other more upscale uses than their present ones. Malibu Bar across from Avenue has already been demolished and is being redeveloped. Over time, Post Office all the way to the Beach will likely go the same way. Where will all the bars go to...some to Bua Khow yes but the Avenue would be another great alternative. All the new small condos in the the soi behind the Avenue that are being build will also provide a natural customer base for the new use Avenue.

b]Malibu Bar across from Avenue has already been demolished and is being redeveloped....WOT...

NO No No Cant be.......manys a night........... :D

[NotNew2You]

]Malibu Bar across from Avenue has already been demolished and is being redeveloped....WOT...

NO No No Cant be.......manys a night...........

Yes Rinrada, it's very true...the old Malibu is just a pile of rubble as I write. HOWEVER, don't jump just yet...just do a search for "Malibu" or "Tina Turner" and you will get the latest on them...

[johnh101]

People seem to cross 2nd Road to go to Big C just fine, thank you.

... because there is a zebra crossing near there?

Has anyone ever seen traffic stop here ????????

I am sure if you asked any Thai what the Black and White Stripes were there for they would have no idea.

[Rinrada]

]Malibu Bar across from Avenue has already been demolished and is being redeveloped....WOT...

NO No No Cant be.......manys a night...........

Yes Rinrada, it's very true...the old Malibu is just a pile of rubble as I write. HOWEVER, don't jump just yet...just do a search for "Malibu" or "Tina Turner" and you will get the latest on them...

In the smoke and keep getting things about hooch wot comes in Old Spice Bottles and pictures of Granny Turner in a mini skirt....

so wheres the Bar gone to....Yo Tee Nai Krup... .....?

[Heng]

I am sure if you asked any Thai what the Black and White Stripes were there for they would have no idea.

Bonus points for 'hits' scored therein?

[basjke]

Was in the avenue today and saw that they were loading the interior from Miss Saigon into a truck.Is it just me or can you hear an echo when you walk around in the shopping area.For sure there isn't much left anymore then a couple of ex-pole dancers who have been upgraded to real estate salespersons on the ground floor.

Wondering how long it will take before it gets demolished.

[BugJackBaron]

Was in the avenue today and saw that they were loading the interior from Miss Saigon into a truck.Is it just me or can you hear an echo when you walk around in the shopping area.For sure there isn't much left anymore then a couple of ex-pole dancers who have been upgraded to real estate salespersons on the ground floor.

Wondering how long it will take before it gets demolished.

Another thing I noticed yesterday as I shopped in the Villa

food market looking for rice milk..they are out of stock and have been for

weeks.

Seems like many other "specialty items" were also "temporally out of stock"

Not a good sign....

[vickersvc10]

On the positive side, they were testing the water jet display this evening and it looks good. Much better than the one at the Royal Garden Plaza.

[Jingthing]

Was in the avenue today and saw that they were loading the interior from Miss Saigon into a truck.Is it just me or can you hear an echo when you walk around in the shopping area.For sure there isn't much left anymore then a couple of ex-pole dancers who have been upgraded to real estate salespersons on the ground floor.

Wondering how long it will take before it gets demolished.

Really? Thats good news. The food was below average Vietnamese food. First rule of business, deliver a good product at a good price. I don't think their failure can be blamed on location.

[JimmyTheMook]

They jacked up the price on the set breakfast at the food counter at Villa also

[basjke]

On the positive side, they were testing the water jet display this evening and it looks good. Much better than the one at the Royal Garden Plaza.

Thats gonna be a private water jet then as nobody around to watch.

[thaibeachlovers]

On the positive side, they were testing the water jet display this evening and it looks good. Much better than the one at the Royal Garden Plaza.

Thats gonna be a private water jet then as nobody around to watch.

I don't care how great the water jet display is. No way I'm standing around in the heat to watch a fountain.

[thaibeachlovers]

]Malibu Bar across from Avenue has already been demolished and is being redeveloped....WOT...

NO No No Cant be.......manys a night...........

Yes Rinrada, it's very true...the old Malibu is just a pile of rubble as I write. HOWEVER, don't jump just yet...just do a search for "Malibu" or "Tina Turner" and you will get the latest on them...

In the smoke and keep getting things about hooch wot comes in Old Spice Bottles and pictures of Granny Turner in a mini skirt....

so wheres the Bar gone to....Yo Tee Nai Krup... .....?

Don't panic, "Tina" still mimes every night at the new location just past Soi 10 on 2nd Rd.

I had a look through the barrier wall at the old location, and it was sad to see the remains of the stage with new pillars rising out of holes cut into it. No matter how modern the new location is, nothing beat the atmosphere at the original.

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't think the mall has much of a future as a retail/restaurant attraction. I think the better use would be as some type of "entertainment" plaza. By this, I mean a combination of family/couples entertainment, as already exists with the cinema, bowling and karaoke lounge AND a naughty nitelife component. For one thing, it already has the layout that would work for such a use and is in a good location. It would be no loss to visitors and residents not interested in such entertainment as Central will be up and running soon and a few years later, the MBK mall (and others we have yet to hear about).

The open-air layout, while a handicap for a pure retail/restaurant mall is ideal for an entertainment plaza. All the successful ones in Thailand are of an outdoor type (e.g., Walking Street, Nana, Cowboy, Patpong, Bangla). The ground floor could be reserved for non-bar tenants like already exist and for allowing families to make their way to the movies/bowling "unmolested" and the 2nd and 3rd floors could be fitted-out with "happy ending" massage joints, gogos and beer-bars. All of the existing restaurant/cafe tenants would surely benefit from the crowds that would come because mongers usually have/work-up big appetites and also like to often feed their ladies too. It might also become something like a tourist destination in its own right like Walking Street in the evenings.

The "new" mall would also benefit as the long-term trend is to kick-out the naughty places from prime beach front locations and the sois running between Beach and 2nd roads. It's only a matter of time when sois 7/8, Post Office, and Yamoto are redeveloped into hotels and other more upscale uses than their present ones. Malibu Bar across from Avenue has already been demolished and is being redeveloped. Over time, Post Office all the way to the Beach will likely go the same way. Where will all the bars go to...some to Bua Khow yes but the Avenue would be another great alternative. All the new small condos in the the soi behind the Avenue that are being build will also provide a natural customer base for the new use Avenue.

I agree.

I reckon the Malibu show would go down well there, and could even get larger with more dancers etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

People seem to cross 2nd Road to go to Big C just fine, thank you.

... because there is a zebra crossing near there?

There's also white lines painted on the road outside RGP - where I was hit by a mo'bike.

No - the real reasons are that Big C is worth crossing the road for (The Avebnue ain't) and that Big C is situated beyond Pattaya Klang and traffic is much less manic in that area - few parked cars, less cars entering / leaving the traffic stream - more gaps in the traffic.

Yes, Big C is worth crossing the road for, but you're kidding about the traffic having more gaps, right? Perhaps in the daytime, but no way at night. IMO it's the worst place to try and cross on 2nd Rd.

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't think the mall has much of a future as a retail/restaurant attraction. I think the better use would be as some type of "entertainment" plaza. By this, I mean a combination of family/couples entertainment, as already exists with the cinema, bowling and karaoke lounge AND a naughty nitelife component. For one thing, it already has the layout that would work for such a use and is in a good location.

The open-air layout, while a handicap for a pure retail/restaurant mall is ideal for an entertainment plaza. All the successful ones in Thailand are of an outdoor type (e.g., Walking Street, Nana, Cowboy, Patpong, Bangla).

Crossing Second Road is the problem in Pattaya - people will not come out of Soi post Office / Soi Yamato / RGP and walk across 2nd Road - they will drift North or South on the same side of the road

My model would be more like Nana or EDSA complex in Manila (except EDSA is enclosed). There already is a large entrance frontage on 2nd and bars and clubs would clearly be visible to folks walking around like they do at Nana. Heat, humidity, and rain would not be deterrents to the monger crowd. There could be some rules and regulations to keep it from degenerating into the squalor and sordid atmosphere you find around Nana or Cowboy, however.

If there is something interesting there, the "chickens" will cross the road. If it was really a problem, a pedestrian bridge could be built or even easier, speed bumps in the road.

What squalor and sordid atmosphere? It's the 2nd greatest show on earth after Walking Street! ( In the eye of the beholder etc. )

[thaibeachlovers]

I think the Thais way overdid the mall developmen , just like they overdid the 7-11s on every corner. You have Big C, Gardens Mall, Mike's, the place where Shenanigan's is, and now that huge place. Not to mention the Tesco Lotus and Carre 4s that are around the corners. You know the typical Pattaya Thai native will not shop in these new developments. I guess somebody thinks they can make money or they pay very smally building loan interest or land rent or something. I don't like this many shopping places. Doesn't add anything to the city and doens't make one think they are in Thailand. I wonder who bankrolled this one? Foreign investors?

Speaking as a regular visitor to pattaya, I think the developers did not do any research to identify a clientelle base.

If they sought to attract Western tourists the outdoor design was wrong, as farangs are in no way going to window shop in the heat.

If they wanted asian package tourists, they were on a non starter, as Mike has that sewn up.

If they desired Thais the design is all wrong. The most successful mall in Thailand has to be MBK, and the RGM is the nearest to that, followed by Big C.

If they hankered for passing foot traffic it's in the wrong location, as not many pedestrians pass on that side of 2nd Rd, and there is nothing special enough to get them to cross the road for; McDogfood, KFCr*p and overpriced pizza- b*ll*cks.

IMO people go to shops and supermarkets to buy things and to restaurants ( anywhere ) to eat. They go to malls to socialise and peoplewatch with a bit of shopping thrown in, and while they are there they might as well get something to eat. Shopping and eating are not the primary motivation for going to a mall. Therefore to attract customers, the place has to be conducive to hanging about in, and have some interesting attractions, plus be in a convenient location. the mall that best fills these criteria in Pattaya is the RG Mall. Excellent location, nice environment and attractions eg Ripley's and the fountain, plus a good range of shops and eating places. Most important of the eating places is the food court, and I don't think Avenues has one.

Many posters have mentioned carparking as a factor, but in a tourist area, that's not going to be a major attraction, as most of us don't have a car!

I was there for the opening of Avenues, and thought at the time not enough people would shop there due to having to walk around in the heat, and in a town with an excess of shops and restaurants there wasn't anything special for enough people to make the effort to go there.

When in Pattaya, I go to Big C to buy supermarket things, to Mike for department store things and to RGM if I feel like fast food, ice cream or a food court. I'll go to the movies at Avenue unless the same one is at RGM ( cheaper ). No way I'll go window shopping in the heat. If I feel like people watching, it's RGM everytime.

[kedawi]

Normally when a mall opens a few businesses go under or leave.

It is usually the small independents, who are not in a position to negotiate good terms and the rent eveentually ccripples them. At this point the big boys move in and force the owners to rent to them at better rates. They get a pre-built base for their operations and the owner gets a full building....the customer....well he gets less chioce and a boring arcade to walk round.

BTW - if you want to see a really sad project, just pop up to Big C on Sukhumvit....their car park is always empty....a huge placce and it must take a fraction of what they take in the Big C on 2nd road.

Edited October 2, 2008 by kedawi

[xminator]

Normally when a mall opens a few businesses go under or leave.

It is usually the small independents, who are not in a position to negotiate good terms and the rent eveentually ccripples them. At this point the big boys move in and force the owners to rent to them at better rates. They get a pre-built base for their operations and the owner gets a full building....the customer....well he gets less chioce and a boring arcade to walk round.

BTW - if you want to see a really sad project, just pop up to Big C on Sukhumvit....their car park is always empty....a huge placce and it must take a fraction of what they take in the Big C on 2nd road.

Hmm, I liked this place when I was there this winter. It looked sort of clean and I liked the light display. The cinema was also my #1 favourite thing this winter. Is it still operating?

The layout was really bad tough, and not my favourit type of shops either.