Foreigners Performing Volunteer Charity Work In Thailand

[PeaceBlondie]

i wonder how many in this thread are actually interested in doing charity work and how many are just upset that they are not allowed to do certain charity work that they have no intentions of doing anyways.

That is a good point, for what it is worth, but it doesn't matter. We are pointing out that Thailand systematically rejects foreign help, and we are informing and reminding foreigners that their help is unwelcome. If they really wanted our help and acted to make it legal, then we could tell each other to put our good efforts to the tasks. Has your Thai family or landlady done their charity work?

[Mobi]

The face thing also exists in China and they are prepared to except western help so i dont think that this argument holds water. I personally think that the reason is more political in both the Thai and Burmese situations.

Very sad.

Cheers, Rick

As PB says, Thailand is Thailand and you can't really compare to other countries, but I would venture to suggest that the 'face' that is in play in China is more from a national perspective, as the government strives to be recognised as a major world player and they do not want to be seen as being churlish or ungrateful by refusing foreign aid.

Thailand basically couldn't give two hoots what the world thinks about them.

But you are correct that there is undoubtedly a political element to all this, in as much as the government operates racist policies, and encourages the population to blame all their ills on evil foreigners. The education system is such that the general population remain largely ignorant of the outside world, and believe that Thais are superior beings who do not need farangs to help solve social problems that do not really exist .

[Doza]

Guesthouse - the establishment of a foreign charity/NGO (foundation in Thailand) is very difficult to do and takes years. Its well regulated. No-one in their right mind would pursue this for visas. It is much easier to set up a for profit company and rip people off. However it is easier to set up a Thai Foundation - if you have only Thai's on your board. But still this can take 6 months to a year.

Garro - The legalisation and regulation of volunteers is in place too and one officially needs a "work permit" to volunteer (specific volunteer permit) with all the right papers to be filed by the foundation ion advance. I agree it could be better policed in regards to those working with children though as Guesthouse says.

As usual, Thailand has many sensible laws, many copied or based on those from foreign countries, its just the policing and implementation which is f**kd up.

I definately get the feeling Thais don't like foreigners working in charities in Thailand and view them with suspicion and probably yes, feel like they are losing face. Its like this "why would they do that for free..." type thought process not believing some people in the world do just like to help out of the kindness of their hearts.

A telling comment from a Thai colleague the other week made me think. She was referring to a foreigner in Thailand she knew for a few years who had drifted around a few crap jobs then set up a company or something and was keen to stay in Thailand. She basically said: "hes' just doing that so he can live in Thailand, I hate it when foreigners do that, they aren't really interested in helping the country". I felt like saying, welcome to the rest of the world, where people immigrate because they want to. Ever seen how many Thai restaurants on the streets of Sydney, Melbourne, London etc? Do you think they are living in those countries because they want to help? They're there for purely personal reasons, get over it.

[tamsin]

It seems to have been forgotten that directly after the Tsunami, the Phang Nga area, notably Khao Lak and surrounds, was swarming with the American branch of the God Squad, I know I was there, and their help was based on the locals converting to Christianity. So. Before we get all holier than thou about the Thais ...

[sassienie]

I think Farangs are allowed to do charity work in Thailand provided it is on behalf of a recognized organization like the Church or some other International charity.

Maybe Farangs do show the semblance of respecting Thai Law more than the Thais, because for Farangs receiving justice in Thailand can be like a game of Monopoly such as, go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200 or pay the corrupt official 200000 baht. Also what maybe only a fine or short prison sentence for a Thai could mean deportation for a Farang.

Edited July 10, 2008 by sassienie

[padfoot]

Let's not put China on a pedestal. They did allow foreign aid but very few workers, only those with very specialized skills. Now it is no workers, in fact reporters are now banned from the cities with the crushed schools. Thailand did allow aid and workers in after the Tsunami, though after three months they did want most of the workers out. To compare that with what just recently happened in Burma is not being fare. Cuba offered to send medical teams to the U.S. after hurricane Katrina and the U.S. refused.

[vagabond48]

I think what has been forgotten is that some farangs with Thai wifes or gfs seem quite charitable. As they say, charity begins at home so there generous donations towards the sick water buffalo, the new roof, the bought land with new house, new HD TV, the monthly baht allowance etc.

[Valjean]

I’ve done volunteer work here twice before I move here. The first time I worked with an organization that placed me in a public school in Bangkok where I taught English for a few weeks. When I came back a few months later the school was delighted to have me come back and do it again working directly with them. Yeah I guess the legality of this is an issue but did I feel welcome and appreciated? You bet.

My son also volunteered here for 6 weeks a few years ago – in Trang and Bangkok. There is an organization Cross Cultural Solutions that brings in hundreds over the year and to the best of my knowledge people don’t get work permits. As I vaguely recall there is some letter you have to get the right kind of visa? I’ve met a lot of people from that organization as I have a friend that works there and know the director. The volunteers have almost universally a great experience.

A friend of mine went to his Permanent Residency application interview recently and one of the things they asked him was if he was doing any work to help Thailand.

Do a quick google for "volunteer thailand" and you see all the organizations doing this. I searched on "Mirror Foundation Thailand" a respected NGO and saw a link to their volunteer application. "Hi! We are happy to have you join us here in Thailand. Below you will find a link to our Volunteer Application Form."

Really people if it's in your heart to do this there are ways, there are NGOs that can make it happen for you and there are groups that would love to have you come help out - and in return show you kindness, respect and appreciation many times what you gave.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Valjean

[Crushdepth]

Tsunami. The position was that the government of the day took the view it did not require assistance {or maybe didn't want the auditing afterwards} and was quick to endeavour to place as much of the relief effort under government control. On the volunteer point, though this was in part created by a surge of, no doubt well meaning individuals, coming to Thailand on 30 day waivers Sayan Chuaiyjan, head of the Phuket Provincial Employment Service Office, stated that there could be no exceptions to the work permit rules and that his office would begin to enforce the regulations soon probably by March.

That was the official position, but unofficially I know some of the affected provincial governments were very happy to have foreign volunteers on the ground. They were embarrassed at not being able to facilitate work permits etc due to ridiculous bureacratic constraints, so they chose to turn a blind eye. Having said that, I think anyone doing volunteer work for a 'lower profile' cause does run a bit of risk if you are caught (or if anyone decides to be vindictive and turn you in).

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, so I am a bit grumpy about this. I believe in good causes, even risked my life for one. However, the end does not justify the means. Just because it is for charity does not make it right or righteous or legal. Thailand - the Kingdom itself, the basic country and culture - generally does not want foreigners to help. Just say no.

Let Somchai do it. Somchai and Lek, and the somtam vendor, and your Thai mother in law. They are Thai. Thai charity is their job. They speak the language, understand the culture perfectly. Unlike us ignorant, unwashed foreigners, Somchai and Lek can do it legally. They should do it, morally. Maybe as good Thai Buddhists, they ought to do it.

[Valjean]

Okay, so I am a bit grumpy about this. I believe in good causes, even risked my life for one. However, the end does not justify the means. Just because it is for charity does not make it right or righteous or legal. Thailand - the Kingdom itself, the basic country and culture - generally does not want foreigners to help. Just say no.

It's a wacky policy to be sure. But in the end you should only volunteer when it comes from your heart and the rewards will be in the doing. Everything else is just bs swirling around.

[sriracha john]

Okay, so I am a bit grumpy about this. I believe in good causes, even risked my life for one. However, the end does not justify the means. Just because it is for charity does not make it right or righteous or legal. Thailand - the Kingdom itself, the basic country and culture - generally does not want foreigners to help. Just say no.

It's a wacky policy to be sure. But in the end you should only volunteer when it

becomes legal.

[Old Man River]

Okay, so I am a bit grumpy about this. I believe in good causes, even risked my life for one. However, the end does not justify the means. Just because it is for charity does not make it right or righteous or legal. Thailand - the Kingdom itself, the basic country and culture - generally does not want foreigners to help. Just say no.

Let Somchai do it. Somchai and Lek, and the somtam vendor, and your Thai mother in law. They are Thai. Thai charity is their job. They speak the language, understand the culture perfectly. Unlike us ignorant, unwashed foreigners, Somchai and Lek can do it legally. They should do it, morally. Maybe as good Thai Buddhists, they ought to do it.

Very simple. As a foreigner, if you want to help out then join a service club such as a local Lions or Rotary club. There are many clubs all over Thailand comprised of people from all over the world. Problems at the local level are few, probably because Thais are also members, some from senior levels who want to be involved in charitable work. It is a win win situation. If you are interested, don't fight it. Join it.

[Valjean]

Okay, so I am a bit grumpy about this. I believe in good causes, even risked my life for one. However, the end does not justify the means. Just because it is for charity does not make it right or righteous or legal. Thailand - the Kingdom itself, the basic country and culture - generally does not want foreigners to help. Just say no.

It's a wacky policy to be sure. But in the end you should only volunteer when it

becomes legal.

It is legal and thousands of non-Thai's do it every year with approved agencies, NGOs and other organizations. If you don't want to do it - then don't. It's like everything else - if you choose to feel powerless and victim of circumstances well then I guess sitting on your bottom whining about the situation is one logical outcome.

This thread is another classic example of blaming someone else, here conveniently the Thais but it could be anyone and I sure back home it was, instead of just taking responsibility for what is you want and going and getting it. Heck there are kids within a stones throw of your house today who would love to have an English tutor. Do you need to ask permission?

There is only one thing that is stopping anyone on this newsgroup or any farang in Thailand from doing volunteer work – and that’s the will to do it. Anything else is just taking the mantel of victimhood and placing it firmly on you head.

[sriracha john]

Okay, so I am a bit grumpy about this. I believe in good causes, even risked my life for one. However, the end does not justify the means. Just because it is for charity does not make it right or righteous or legal. Thailand - the Kingdom itself, the basic country and culture - generally does not want foreigners to help. Just say no.

It's a wacky policy to be sure. But in the end you should only volunteer when it

becomes legal.

It is legal and thousands of non-Thai's do it every year with approved agencies, NGOs and other organizations. If you don't want to do it - then don't. It's like everything else - if you choose to feel powerless and victim of circumstances well then I guess sitting on your bottom whining about the situation is one logical outcome.

This thread is another classic example of blaming someone else, here conveniently the Thais but it could be anyone and I sure back home it was, instead of just taking responsibility for what is you want and going and getting it. Heck there are kids within a stones throw of your house today who would love to have an English tutor. Do you need to ask permission?

There is only one thing that is stopping anyone on this newsgroup or any farang in Thailand from doing volunteer work – and that’s the will to do it. Anything else is just taking the mantel of victimhood and placing it firmly on you head.

It's legal according to whom?

Do the volunteers have work permits or work permit exemption letters issued by the Labor Ministry?

If they do, terrific. If they don't, it's illegal.

That's the point of the thread, it's not about volunteerism or jai dee-ness, it's about being legal.

I actually did volunteer to teach. I even went through the maze of beauracry to obtain a work permit, which in the end didn't happen because a higher up to my "employer" said no. End of discussion. End of topic. End of my volunteering.

If ONLY it was the will to do it that stopped volunteers... that would be great, but it's not. It's the Thais themselves. There's no shortage of volunteers willing to work for free, but aren't willing to do so illegally.

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, so I am a bit grumpy about this. I believe in good causes, even risked my life for one. However, the end does not justify the means. Just because it is for charity does not make it right or righteous or legal. Thailand - the Kingdom itself, the basic country and culture - generally does not want foreigners to help. Just say no.

It's a wacky policy to be sure. But in the end you should only volunteer when it

becomes legal.

It is legal and thousands of non-Thai's do it every year with approved agencies, NGOs and other organizations. If you don't want to do it - then don't. It's like everything else - if you choose to feel powerless and victim of circumstances well then I guess sitting on your bottom whining about the situation is one logical outcome.

This thread is another classic example of blaming someone else, here conveniently the Thais but it could be anyone and I sure back home it was, instead of just taking responsibility for what is you want and going and getting it. Heck there are kids within a stones throw of your house today who would love to have an English tutor. Do you need to ask permission?

There is only one thing that is stopping anyone on this newsgroup or any farang in Thailand from doing volunteer work – and that’s the will to do it. Anything else is just taking the mantel of victimhood and placing it firmly on you head.

Are you talking to me? You do not know me, you do not know how much voluntary work I did in three previous countries, for over 50 years. I am blaming the laws of Thailand for forbidding foreigners to do what they would like to do to help. I doubt that most of the volunteer work done by farang here is legal. Here is the latest example of a Thai-run Bangkok charity http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Foreigners-P...ha-t199140.html Let me put this part in bold: Unfortunately, we are not in the position of being able to offer financial, work permit or visa procurement assistance to our non-Thai volunteers, who typically are working elsewhere under valid Thai work permits. Normally we have a need for volunteers to fill the following roles:English Teachers

We're always looking for motivated teachers....

Do you read ThaiVisa? Do you know what a work permit is? Would you risk deportation to do what Thais should be doing for their fellow Thais?

I'm often mistaken, so please prove me wrong. Would you care to scan in a few thousand Thai-issued work permits that authorize farang to do charity work?

[Valjean]

Okay, so I am a bit grumpy about this. I believe in good causes, even risked my life for one. However, the end does not justify the means. Just because it is for charity does not make it right or righteous or legal. Thailand - the Kingdom itself, the basic country and culture - generally does not want foreigners to help. Just say no.

It's a wacky policy to be sure. But in the end you should only volunteer when it

becomes legal.

It is legal and thousands of non-Thai's do it every year with approved agencies, NGOs and other organizations. If you don't want to do it - then don't. It's like everything else - if you choose to feel powerless and victim of circumstances well then I guess sitting on your bottom whining about the situation is one logical outcome.

This thread is another classic example of blaming someone else, here conveniently the Thais but it could be anyone and I sure back home it was, instead of just taking responsibility for what is you want and going and getting it. Heck there are kids within a stones throw of your house today who would love to have an English tutor. Do you need to ask permission?

There is only one thing that is stopping anyone on this newsgroup or any farang in Thailand from doing volunteer work – and that’s the will to do it. Anything else is just taking the mantel of victimhood and placing it firmly on you head.

It's legal according to whom?

Do the volunteers have work permits or work permit exemption letters issued by the Labor Ministry?

If they do, terrific. If they don't, it's illegal.

That's the point of the thread, it's not about volunteerism or jai dee-ness, it's about being legal.

I actually did volunteer to teach. I even went through the maze of beauracry to obtain a work permit, which in the end didn't happen because a higher up to my "employer" said no. End of discussion. End of topic. End of my volunteering.

If ONLY it was the will to do it that stopped volunteers... that would be great, but it's not. It's the Thais themselves. There's no shortage of volunteers willing to work for free, but aren't willing to do so illegally.

OK since I'm not an expert in the legal issues I've fired off a mail to the CSR lead on my team and to the director of one NGO I know and ask them what is the best process. Also tomorrow morning I head up country to a school dedication with US Ambassdor John and various Thai officials will be there from Department of Education and NGOs - I'll ask all of them what their recommendation is.

I'll report back tomorrow evening.

[PeaceBlondie]

Great. While you are at it, try to find a high-ranking officer of of the Labour Ministry. You know, the only ones who issue work permits. My guess is that most of the rest of the puu-yai, or even a foreign ambassador, say mai bpen rai, as if the National Laws do not matter. What does Labour Ministry say? I hope I am wrong.

[Valjean]

Great. While you are at it, try to find a high-ranking officer of of the Labour Ministry. You know, the only ones who issue work permits. My guess is that most of the rest of the puu-yai, or even a foreign ambassador, say mai bpen rai, as if the National Laws do not matter. What does Labour Ministry say? I hope I am wrong.

I'll see what I can find out.

[bassmaster50]

Yes this is a crazy law.But if people want to help this shouldnt matter.There are many old people around my home who have arthritis and pain ,mostly from being rice farmers.So I bought a massage machine and people all use it for free and many people claim they now have no pain first time in their lives.The local school had no soccer balls so I bought some,and also bicycles for kids who live far from school.When I go to the market I always bring something for the Burmese construction workers,and I also teach free martial arts classes for farmers to protect their crops from thieves and for women to protect themselves from assault.The point of this is not to say look what a good guy I am.I am not really such a good guy for one thing,and this is anonymous so there is no point in bragging.My point is,if you want to help people,there are ways to do so,with or without papers or work permits.

[Valjean]

Yes this is a crazy law.But if people want to help this shouldnt matter.There are many old people around my home who have arthritis and pain ,mostly from being rice farmers.So I bought a massage machine and people all use it for free and many people claim they now have no pain first time in their lives.The local school had no soccer balls so I bought some,and also bicycles for kids who live far from school.When I go to the market I always bring something for the Burmese construction workers,and I also teach free martial arts classes for farmers to protect their crops from thieves and for women to protect themselves from assault.The point of this is not to say look what a good guy I am.I am not really such a good guy for one thing,and this is anonymous so there is no point in bragging.My point is,if you want to help people,there are ways to do so,with or without papers or work permits.

Amen.

[MarkBKK]

It is legal ...

OK since I'm not an expert in the legal issues ...

Er ...

Anyway, I hope you have the courage to ask the people you meet the right questions and keep doing so until you get an answer.

[A_Traveller]

Valjean, the legal position for the individual is 100% clear, any foreigner undertaking work {which is so broadly defined in law, that it is NOT a joke to say thinking about it is an offence} and even if the individual is being paid nothing they are required by law to hold a work permit, which is in their name, but issued to the organisation hiring them. In addition, the WP is location specific, so if a person wishes to work in two locations the WP must be duly registered there as well.

The only other option is to be provided by an exception statement by the Ministry of Labour which I've always been advised outside very special circumstances {e.g. Royally sponsored conference} are virtually unknown.

bassmaster50, I truly salute you for your attitude, in which you are not alone, but here's the reality, if you fell foul of an individual here they could decide to report you for your classes {as work even though unpaid} and claim you are depriving a Thai citizen of their livelihood, and without a WP to cover you then you would be found to be in breach of the law. It is not an issue of payment or even intent, if the accusation is made then you have no legal cover. No doubt you view this as far fetched, but if you or a member of your family annoyed the wrong person, it doesn't take long for this sort of thing to happen.

Regards

[Valjean]

Valjean, the legal position for the individual is 100% clear, any foreigner undertaking work {which is so broadly defined in law, that it is NOT a joke to say thinking about it is an offence} and even if the individual is being paid nothing they are required by law to hold a work permit, which is in their name, but issued to the organisation hiring them. In addition, the WP is location specific, so if a person wishes to work in two locations the WP must be duly registered there as well.

The only other option is to be provided by an exception statement by the Ministry of Labour which I've always been advised outside very special circumstances {e.g. Royally sponsored conference} are virtually unknown.

bassmaster50, I truly salute you for your attitude, in which you are not alone, but here's the reality, if you fell foul of an individual here they could decide to report you for your classes {as work even though unpaid} and claim you are depriving a Thai citizen of their livelihood, and without a WP to cover you then you would be found to be in breach of the law. It is not an issue of payment or even intent, if the accusation is made then you have no legal cover. No doubt you view this as far fetched, but if you or a member of your family annoyed the wrong person, it doesn't take long for this sort of thing to happen.

Regards

I didn’t mean to imply that it was legal to do whatever you want. I was just responding to the blanket assertion that it’s not legal to do volunteer work. There are established reputable organizations that offer volunteer positions and they don't require work permits. And while it's an assumption I’ll admit, I don't think their volunteers are working illegally. What I don't know is the specific provisions in the law that allow NGOs of some type to have foreign volunteers versus an individual and how the requirements might vary. Your point seems reasonable and well informed so I’ll accept that.

But still it begs the question: why not find an NGO in your neighborhood and work through them? How many people here who are complaining about this have really look at the alternatives? Again I’m not saying it’s ideal and maybe it discouraged some people but come on how hard is it to spend 15 min. on Google and send a few emails?

[Mobi]

But still it begs the question: why not find an NGO in your neighborhood and work through them?

Erm.... you don't seem to get it do you?

Because it is illegal if the NGO cannot issue you with a work permit, which is work specific and location specific to the volunteer work that you wish to do.....

[A_Traveller]

All Alien work activity is covered by the {new} Working of Aliens Act 2008.

Section 4. This Act does not apply to performance of specific duty by aliens in the Kingdom in the following capacities:

(1) as members of a diplomatic mission;

(2) as members of a consular mission;

(3) as representatives of member countries and officials of the United Nations and specialized institutions;

(4) as personal servants coming from foreign countries to work regularly for persons in (1) or (2) or (3);

(5) as persons who perform duty or mission under an agreement concluded between the Government of Thailand and foreign Governments or international organizations;

(6) as persons who perform duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

(7) as persons permitted by the Cabinet to enter and perform any duty or mission, accordingly upon the rules prescribed by the Cabinet.

Since Royal Decree doesn't actually mean from the Crown per se, but the issuance of a formal 'amendment' I'd presume that is where the leeway if any in this situation would exist. However, this would be tied to major recognised groups. One thing does spring to mind, and that is the position of those who successfully obtain a Missionary Visa [Type R], but that again is very few. I wonder how the many organisations who effectively advertise on the web for volunteers {who then pay the group} stand?

I do hope tomorrow goes well, and it will be interesting to hear back. However, if the answer is 'we have an understanding' then I'd be concerned for the individuals.

Regards

PS Looking on the net it is easy to come across 'volunteer' operations who make no provision for permits and even start with ..most individuals do not need a visa for less then 30 days... To be fair to the authorities one can see how the regs end up as they do.

Edited July 10, 2008 by A_Traveller

[PeaceBlondie]

If I may play an old lawyer's trick, I am going to shift the burden of proof onto those who say farang can legally perform charitable work in Thailand: prove your position with documentary evidence that overwhelms the national statutes that have already been shown.

[elkangorito]

I am often mistaken, but I doubt this has anything to do with any country outside of Thailand. Thais do not stay awake nights thinking how they compare to any other country. Which is why analogies are pointless. We can analyze Thai law and culture until the buffaloes come home, and it will not matter at all. Nada, soon. This is the way Thai law and culture is, and nothing that farang can say or do will change it. Let the Thais take care of Thais and Burmese and Hill Tribes and Malay-Thais until after they start granting immigrant status to farangs, accomodating Thai culture to farang culture, giving Thai educators courses in farang culture. I actually did that for an hour, with the blessing of a naughty Thai ajarn. The provincial prathom teachers of angrit never figured it out, but it was a hoot to walk in eating and drinking, put my feet up on a chair, and do other normal farang things.

PB, what prompted you to start such a topic? Did someone or something "piss you off"?

BTW, I've had many of my Thai colleagues comment (long ago) upon how "Americans" do things like "walk in eating and drinking, put my feet up on a chair". I asked this question (long ago), "Have you seen farangs from other countries do this?" Their answer was, "No...only Americans." This appeared to be their observation at that time.

In my former country, I would not do this sort of thing in the company of strangers.

i wonder how many in this thread are actually interested in doing charity work and how many are just upset that they are not allowed to do certain charity work that they have no intentions of doing anyways.

That is a good point, for what it is worth, but it doesn't matter. We are pointing out that Thailand systematically rejects foreign help, and we are informing and reminding foreigners that their help is unwelcome. If they really wanted our help and acted to make it legal, then we could tell each other to put our good efforts to the tasks. Has your Thai family or landlady done their charity work?

I've been trying to guess to what you are alluding, PB. Discounting the possibility that somebody or something "pissed you off", your point is very clear. Correct me if I am wrong but I think your point is, "If Thais can't accept farangs for who they are, they should not accept farangs at all or either, fully accept farangs." One may not see the connection with charity work but at the end of the day, this perceived Thai attitude is what limits charity work for farangs here in Thailand.

To me, this is normal human judgement at work. We choose to accept certain attributes of others, over perceived unacceptable attributes.

The face thing also exists in China and they are prepared to except western help so i dont think that this argument holds water. I personally think that the reason is more political in both the Thai and Burmese situations.

Very sad.

Cheers, Rick

As PB says, Thailand is Thailand and you can't really compare to other countries, but I would venture to suggest that the 'face' that is in play in China is more from a national perspective, as the government strives to be recognised as a major world player and they do not want to be seen as being churlish or ungrateful by refusing foreign aid.

Thailand basically couldn't give two hoots what the world thinks about them.

But you are correct that there is undoubtedly a political element to all this, in as much as the government operates racist policies, and encourages the population to blame all their ills on evil foreigners. The education system is such that the general population remain largely ignorant of the outside world, and believe that Thais are superior beings who do not need farangs to help solve social problems that do not really exist .

The strange thing is that Thais give millions of hoots as to what others think about them in their own country. Is Thailand not a strong "class" society? This is hipocritical behaviour.

In the defense of Thailand, this country largely has a true sense of "community", which is sadly lacking in many western countries. Everyday, I experience this "community spirit". Mind you, I do not live in Bangkok. If Thais don't seem to be "charitable" (according to western values), there may be a reason. Buddhism may play a part in this way of thinking. How many "average" Thai people can be charitable? If money is the "charity", I can't see many Thai people being charitable. If "time" is the charity, I can see Thais everyday helping their fellow man. It may not be in huge measures but at least it is an effort.

On the other hand, Thais are "programmed" to think in this way. Are they "really" selflessly helping their fellow man? Do they perform certain acts of charity due to "face" (ego) or do they do this regardless of what others think about them?

Look at others whom you know. How many people, whom you know, perform acts of kindness simply to gain "brownie points" & then expect some kind of "payback" later? "I did xyz for you & you won't help me? You're a bastard." I know countless farangs who think like this. Very sad.

To me, the world is one place. Problems arise when people segregate others due to cultural, political, religious or monetary differences. We are all different but we all have the same requirements.

If only we could learn to live with each other!?

Edited July 10, 2008 by elkangorito

[cloudhopper]

All Alien work activity is covered by the {new} Working of Aliens Act 2008.

Thanks A. Now I can prove to my wife that it's actually illegal for me to take out the garbage, cut the grass, wash the truck....

[anthonyu]

You can't help someone who doesn't want your help. In the same way you can't help a country that doesn't want another country's aid. There are plenty of other countries what do want western aid (the entire African continent springs to mind as a place the world forgot) so focusing energy on changing a country that doesn't want to be changed is pretty much a waste of time.

Looking at this from the other side, if a western country were to have a natural disaster occur, would they be willing and ready to accept a few thousand volunteers from China or India? Most likely the "thanks, but no thanks" line will come up and no one would really care.