Uk Elderly Expats Lose Appeal Over Yearly Pensions Increase.

[JetsetBkk]

...Were do you come from JsB, the word GYP i haven,t heard in a long time and one we use frequently in our neck of the woods ????

I had a chuckle when i read it, hope it gets better soon, is it the cold / damp spell that,s making it worse.

Sorry, marshbags, I'm from "down south" - the furthest north I've been was a visit or two to Yorkshire!

I've always used the word "gyp" - don't know where I got it from. But, I must own up: there's nowt wrong wit' leg - just a small joke! (Obviously, very small ) . But thanks for your kind words anyway.

[DavidOxon]

Have to agree with you Eyebee.

I paid my NI contributions for 30 years , not missing one day from work.

I had good jobs so paid a lot of money to HM Government.

Now I am retired I will only get the pension as it was in 2003 when I left, and I don't qualify for another 12 years so what will a 2002 single persons pension in 200 be worth then I wonder?

Peanuts methinks

Pensions frozen at retirement . . . but won't you qualify for a married pension?

D

[JimsKnight]

...This includes making flying visits back to the U.K. for medical treatment as many of them do, courtesy of the wonderfully free and much unfairly criticised by many of them as going down hill ??????? Our beloved National Health...

I believe this has been stopped or proposals have been made to stop it. Any up to date information would be very gratefully received. (Bad leg giving me some gyp. )

It,s still happening in North East Lincs JsB and is the number one reason for resentment, along with expats coming in on flying visits who tend to rub the noses of those who live there permanently, going on about our life styles while boasting about there tax free mega wages / life styles in way off lands.

I am not an expat basher in general, but the voting issue leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I was living in the U.K. on a full time basis in the Eighties and remember Snatcher Thatcher giving the expat community a postal vote in the elections.

Why ? because by and large most of them ( in my area anyway ) backed the tories, as they favoured their life style and all it,s tax free perks ect ect. and all that it selfishly encompassed.

The general observation on this was that most of these voters lived abroad, didn,t live in the U.K. and either didn,t give a <deleted> about how policies effected ordinary working people, or didn,t care as they were not effected.

Many live / lived away for many years and couldn,t have cared less about what was happening and yet they where given the right to vote, courtesy of what i consider a party of the wealthier members of society and in doing so have an unjust say, while not even caring about residential citizens and just what this selfish group went away to escape in the first place, local quality of life.

My views on this have not changed, nor have the views of those who condemned it at the time.

Ask yourselves those who reckon it is not so, would the tories have introduced this facility for expat voters had it favoured the opposition !!!

Like <deleted> they would have, it was an unjust political manouevre, that in the opinion of many, who still live and work in the U.K. , pay their dues week in and week out in financial terms, and more importantly keep the country going and developing by their presence and being true to the cause.

I was there on one of my many visits back home just 4 weeks ago and the resentment is voiced loud and clear about expats and immigrants, especially among the OAP,s who cannot even afford to keep warm in the cold, nor buy anything other than basic foodstuffs.

Yes, the expat vote certainly is credited with the Torys getting back in power in the '94 election. Not so sure about previous to that though.

I think you have to remember the socialist mindset of 'keep everyone at home and in the grist mill' tolling away, this is what the NuLabour and commie-sided (old) Labour has not and probably never will support expats because they represent people who've 'done it for themselves' and decided to make their own path in life.

As this goes against the mindset and socialist cause to control everyone in the UK and aim for dumbed down masses etc etc.

The more free-spirited and expatriate-favouring Tories (Libertarian Right as they like to say) will, time and time again, favour the expats and good on them for it. D. Cameron has reinstated the expat support pledge at the last Tory conference thank God.

If someone steps up to the plate and makes success and goes off overseas to enjoy life then good on them for it, and if the government of the day that supports expats gets votes from them, then so they should.

I think everyone should aim high and once they've made their fortune be entitled to live overseas off it if they so choose. How is that selfish? You earn money and invest it wisely and therefore reap the rewards later on.

This is/was one of the great benefits of being born and raised in Britain, you do well and knuckle down and reap the benefits later on. Pretty much the Tory way and one that 80-90% of todays generation have missed out on alas. Try telling that to the dumb sods who live like madmen off easy credit (not so much now though!).

We've been left behind a bit since meddling Gordon Brown fcked around with the rules and cut down the 180 day rule to 90 days but that will change again soon I hope, along with the silly pension freeze.

So like the other poster said, roll on the general election.

[JetsetBkk]

Yes, the expat vote certainly is credited with the Torys getting back in power in the '94 election...

And don't forget the "women only" lists that got NuLabour into power in '97. All those silly women voting Labour just because it was a woman candidate! Jesus wept!

Sorry, back on topic...

I will investigate how to find out who my MP is. As I sold my house and now use my mother's address for UK mail, I presume it'll be my mother's constituency MP.

This link looks promising: http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/commons/l/

[endure]

When i get to that age Ill be trying every scam in the book including not telling them Ive gone by keeping a uk address. The F*******rs

"F*******rs" they might be BUT the moment you go thru immigration (on leaving the UK) they have your departure on file.

UK immigration doesn't record departures from the UK. They don't put an embarkation stamp in your passport. They have no idea that you have left. Embarkation controls were abolished in 1997. They count you in but they don't count you out. That's one of the nonsenses that have caused so much immigration grief over the past 11 years.

[marshbags]

...Were do you come from JsB, the word GYP i haven,t heard in a long time and one we use frequently in our neck of the woods ????

I had a chuckle when i read it, hope it gets better soon, is it the cold / damp spell that,s making it worse.

Sorry, marshbags, I'm from "down south" - the furthest north I've been was a visit or two to Yorkshire!

I've always used the word "gyp" - don't know where I got it from. But, I must own up: there's nowt wrong wit' leg - just a small joke! (Obviously, very small ) . But thanks for your kind words anyway.

Nice one JsB, got the day off to a brilliant start.

I hope they made you welcome, you,ve definitely got the right sort of humour i,m used to.

We always find a way to take the edge of of most things and have a laugh at ourselves during rough times.

Gyp is associated with pain / trouble

It is also an abbreviation for a certain troublesome group of ???????, but this is going off topic.........................sorry posters.

Thanks and stay safe

marshbags

[marshbags]

I,m not sure about the political blame game as the pension freeze has been going on for many a year.

What i do know is that nobody has bothered to put it right.

So for me, it,s enough of the finger pointing ect. ect. and a wish that it is sorted out sometime soon and the parity is restored for ALL oap,s who qualify for the state pension.

After all i qualify for mine next year and who knows i may live to see it happen / restored.

Personally, i to have another pension so i would not be as worried about it, but for those who aren,t fortunate enough to have back up, let it be soon for you.

marshbags

[JetsetBkk]

...Personally, i to have another pension so i would not be as worried about it, but for those who aren,t fortunate enough to have back up, let it be soon for you.

marshbags

I guess I never really worried about the perceived discrimination too much as there were so many groups of people fighting it and I always assumed it would be put right before I started to draw my pension. But the nearer I get to the day I start to receive it, and the more the GBP and the FTSE nosedives, the more I'm looking at it as a nice bit of income.

The "reciprocal agreements" reason given by successive governments - Tory and Labour - is a red herring. The uprating is not given only in countries with reciprocal agreements. The whole logic of the governments' argument is false. If the best they can come up with is "You knew about this rule before you left", then that shows the hollowness of their argument.

Here's a good website: http://www.britishexpat.com/Pensions-Campa...Pens.271.0.html

[benjamat]

We can rant and rave or even cry about this as much as we want but it will not achieve anything here.

The only way to do anything about this is to write to your MP.

http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/

By the way, Id recommend sending emails regularly, say once a week and keep it going. Title the email Overseas pension increases. I know that with so many emails being received the only analysis they do regularly is a search on title.

[thucydides]

When i get to that age Ill be trying every scam in the book including not telling them Ive gone by keeping a uk address. The F*******rs

"F*******rs" they might be BUT the moment you go thru immigration (on leaving the UK) they have your departure on file.

UK immigration doesn't record departures from the UK. They don't put an embarkation stamp in your passport. They have no idea that you have left. Embarkation controls were abolished in 1997. They count you in but they don't count you out. That's one of the nonsenses that have caused so much immigration grief over the past 11 years.

Actually, British citizens have never been subject to any control beyond the production of a passport confirming their nationality and identity proving their exemption. Neither the arrivals nor the embarkation control recorded the arrival of a British citizen ( or an EU citizen for that matter ) into, or their departure from, the UK either before 1997 or, in the case of the arrivals control, after.

However, the current obssession about " security " has led to the development of available technology that could do this and may well be introduced in the relatively near future. Whether or not the authorities would wish to retain a record for any length of time of every individual's movements into and out of the country remains to be seen. If it were then those seeking to conceal a residence outside of the UK, for example to maintain eligibility for NHS care, to receive benefits or to qualify for a state pension increase, would certainly be vulnerable.

The absurdity of such a system, applied by a country which is incorporated into a political and economic entity comprising 26 other countries which operate no such oppressive surveillance upon their nationals, is of course apparent to anyone with any intelligence but then who could accuse the existing stalinesque government of that?

Edited November 8, 2008 by thucydides

[barnsleyman]

I am 60 now and have lived in Thailand for the past 6 years. I'm currently getting a local government pension (superannuation), which is uprated every year according to the rate of inflation. This is perfectly correct as I paid into it for many years. I also pay tax on the pension.

When I'm 65, I'll be entitled to the UK state pension. Don't know how much it'll be as I was "contracted-out" during most of my working life. However I paid my "National Insurance" every month, and it was usually larger than my superannuation payments. I know that "National Insurance" isn't really insurance (in that you pay now for future benefits) as the money that people pay into NI funds other people's needs, so that the people who are receiving their OAP are being paid for by people who are currently paying NI. However, the fact that I paid my NI regularly should entitle me to the same benefits that other people get. Why should my choice of residence preclude me from getting the benefits that other people (who have paid in exctly the same way that I have) get?

I'm sorry if this post is long and rambling, but I'm very angry about the UK's stance on this issue .

BTW, marshbags, we may know each other - I lived in Cleethorpes for many years and worked for NE Lincs council (and before that Humberside).

eyebee

eyebee, i couldn't agree with you more,i am 60yrs old same as you,i worked down the coal mines,left school at 15,went down the mine at 16,worked on the coalface (on my hands & knees)from 18,now retired to Thailand Feb this year.I recieve an industrial pension which i pay income tax on, so i don't agree what marshbags says,IMHO any person that has worked all their life in the U.K. then they have paid their income tax & national health stamp, so we should be entitled by right, to recieve our old age pension, & yearly increases whichever country you live in.

[billd766]

I am 60 now and have lived in Thailand for the past 6 years. I'm currently getting a local government pension (superannuation), which is uprated every year according to the rate of inflation. This is perfectly correct as I paid into it for many years. I also pay tax on the pension.

When I'm 65, I'll be entitled to the UK state pension. Don't know how much it'll be as I was "contracted-out" during most of my working life. However I paid my "National Insurance" every month, and it was usually larger than my superannuation payments. I know that "National Insurance" isn't really insurance (in that you pay now for future benefits) as the money that people pay into NI funds other people's needs, so that the people who are receiving their OAP are being paid for by people who are currently paying NI. However, the fact that I paid my NI regularly should entitle me to the same benefits that other people get. Why should my choice of residence preclude me from getting the benefits that other people (who have paid in exctly the same way that I have) get?

I'm sorry if this post is long and rambling, but I'm very angry about the UK's stance on this issue .

BTW, marshbags, we may know each other - I lived in Cleethorpes for many years and worked for NE Lincs council (and before that Humberside).

eyebee

eyebee, i couldn't agree with you more,i am 60yrs old same as you,i worked down the coal mines,left school at 15,went down the mine at 16,worked on the coalface (on my hands & knees)from 18,now retired to Thailand Feb this year.I recieve an industrial pension which i pay income tax on, so i don't agree what marshbags says,IMHO any person that has worked all their life in the U.K. then they have paid their income tax & national health stamp, so we should be entitled by right, to recieve our old age pension, & yearly increases whichever country you live in.

I am with you guys though I never worked underground.

Nobody ever told me that if I left the country my pension would be frozen though it was something that I learned along the way. On the other hand the upside is that I live in a wonderful country with a beautiful wife and our 4 year old son. My wife has no desire to obtain a UK passport or live in the UK and I am more than happy to live in Thailand for the rest of my life.

[Laeotaekhun]

Hey Marshbags! You are a simple t#*t! Obviously a raving lefty to boot. I'm an expat, but most of the opinions I hear from expats in Thailand are left-leaning, so blaming it on Mrs Thatcher is just political ranting. By the way, although a right winger, I was pleased to see Mr Obama win the US election. Mr Mac, despite being a legend, is just too old. Why does anyone want to be president, with all it's responsibilities, at 72 YOA? I'd rather play golf every day and get whiffled at night.

Regarding pension, I have given the Inland Revenue my daughter's address and am hoping they don't cotton on. If they do, cest la vie. I'll plead ignorance. Buggered if I know why my pension isn't index linked when I've paid nhs contributions and UK tax all my life. Some fickle so and so who's never even thought about paying tax/nhs, not only has the index linking but also gets about 50 quid a week more than me anyway!

Rant over. B^*)_r off Marshbags, you p@#s me off.

Thank you for your kind words jesimps "newbie ", at least you mention a bit of relevant info pertaining to your pension scenario.

I hope the minor blast off takes a bit of the frustration away.

Genuine good luck with keeping them at bay, being economical with the truth in this case is not to be considered unworthy, especially as say, you have paid your dues ect.

MHO as always when you are IMHO unjustly penalised.

marshbags

P.S.

I am neither left or right, just batting for what i personally consider worthy causes and the oppressed / underdog.

Not meant to be a derogaritive last couple of words, by the way.

Marshbags,

Until today I had not noticed any of your posts.

I must say, however, on this thread that you come across as a self righteous, pompous, condescending windbag!

No doubt that you will dismiss my post as that of just another "newbie"!

On that matter, I rest my case!

[davyboy]

Have to agree with you Eyebee.

I paid my NI contributions for 30 years , not missing one day from work.

I had good jobs so paid a lot of money to HM Government.

Now I am retired I will only get the pension as it was in 2003 when I left, and I don't qualify for another 12 years so what will a 2002 single persons pension in 200 be worth then I wonder?

Peanuts methinks

I think that you will find under the current rules your pension will be fixed at the rate it is on the day you retire (assuming you are resident outside the UK and remain resident outside the UK - So not the day you first left the UK).

Also I would advise that you get a pension forcast from the Deperatment of Work and Pensions - You need to have 30 full years of NI Payments to be eligible for a full pension - Just check you have the full 30 years required.

Yes GH, the rate on your 65th birthday, and the pension forecast is very good advice.

[JohnC]

Pensions frozen at retirement . . . but won't you qualify for a married pension?

The married pension or ADI as it is known will cease for new applicants from 6th April 2010, from that point married couples can apply for a means tested benefit which of course will not be available outside UK. Those in receipt of ADI before that date will continue to receive the payments until 2020 when the rules above kick in.

Edited November 12, 2008 by JohnC

[torrenova]

I think it is a discrace and I applaud anyone who "fiddles" this unjust system. To me it is akin to do gooders bashing smokers about how much they cost the NHS whilst conveniently forgetting the vast surplus paid in tobacco taxes and the savings in pensions due to lower life expectancy.

Just don't tell the buggers that you have left.

[splodger]

When i get to that age Ill be trying every scam in the book including not telling them Ive gone by keeping a uk address. The F*******rs

[

/qu

go for it mate i am DEFINITELY going do it

[yabaaaa]

When i get to that age Ill be trying every scam in the book including not telling them Ive gone by keeping a uk address. The F*******rs

"F*******rs" they might be BUT the moment you go thru immigration (on leaving the UK) they have your departure on file.

Keeping a UK address will give you nothing, zero, zilch.

"yabaaaa" would appear to be an appropriate handle

Yeah but how about I say im off to live in Madeira (EU) fly there and then get the plane to Thailand from an airport in Europe somewhere having pension money sent to Madeiran bank acc etc etc will they know?????

[marshbags]

Telegraph.Co.Uk, Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 13/11/2008

Court rejects claim of expat frozen pension campaigners

By Ava Hubble

Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 13/11/2008

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has rejected, by six-to-one, the claim of a consortium of expat pensioner groups, that the UK's frozen pensions policy is discriminatory and in breach of the Human Rights Act.

An appeal is expected to be lodged shortly by the consortium, which is financed by contributions from expat "frozen pensioners".

Britons who retire to most Commonwealth and former Commonwealth nations do not have their pensions increased in line with inflation when they leave the UK.

The Polish president of the chamber, Leck Garlicki, said in his dissenting decision: "Considerations of social justice and equity require that persons who have duly contributed towards the pensions of others should not be treated differently in the subsequent calculation of their own pension.

Differential treatment based solely on current residence has no link to the contributory nature of pensions and, therefore, is deprived of a reasonable justification."

The Australian minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs, Jenny Macklin, said more than half of the 525,000 British pensioners penalised by the frozen pensions policy are living in Australia.

"The Australian Government believes the UK's policy is discriminatory, even if the Court found it technically lawful," she said. Adding that 170,000 of the 245,000 elderly Britons living in retirement in Australia are dependent on means-tested Australian assistance because they cannot survive on frozen pensions.

Meanwhile, Jeanne Lawrence and her husband may leave Mexico because they cannot continue to afford the rising cost of health insurance.

They left the UK, unaware of the frozen pensions policy, to join family in Latin America.

The 13 case histories submitted to the ECHR included that of an Australian, Penelope Hill, who contributed to the UK's National Insurance Fund while working in Britain between 1963 and 1982.

Unaware of the ramifications of the frozen pensions policy, she continued to contribute to the fund after her return to Australia.

President of the British Australian Pensioners Association, James Nelson, estimates it would cost about £440 million to grant parity to all those impoverished by the policy.

Unquote

Comments

It is unfortunate that the UK Government relies on legality rather than morality in deciding on this matter. Recently morality did influence the UK Government to take the clearly right decision in the case of the Ghurkas. Hopefully it can come into play again for others who have served their home land well over many years.

The unfortunate aspect of this case is that by doing only partial accounting of the consequences, the UK Government believes this would be a policy that would cost them money. If the policy was changed so that more UK pensioners could go to live with their grandchildren in Commonwealth countries, then the National Treasury would be the winner. The present thinking is both wrong-headed and immoral.

Posted by Barry Welford on November 14, 2008 1:43 PM

According to the D.S.S. letter dated the 31.10.2000 The National Insurance Act came into being in 1946 and at that

time sufficient funds had not been accumulated to finance the State Pension and it was decided that pensions to

people living outside of britain should have their pensions frozen but there was a clause inserted into the Act to the

effect that when people had paid in sufficient funds their pensions should be unfrozen. The National Insurance

Funds will be in credit by £56,947,000,000 by the end of the 2008/0 period. I suggest that most of that money is

from the accumulated frozen pension contributions together with the high interest which accrued when inflation was

running at an all time high.

Contrary to the statement made by the Rt. Hon.Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Mr. Chris Grayling

the National Insurance contributions and taxes that I paid from age 17 to 60 years were not "Notional" but

deductions from my hard earned salary.

It is well past time for the United Kingdom Government to stop this blatant discrimination.

Posted by Marion Shelley on November 14, 2008 8:04 AM

One point that the UK Government should keep in mind is the Health costs that they do NOT incur because of the 500,000 pensioners choosing to live abroad. Most of us have reached the age where Medical treatments are continuous, the costs of which must be borne by our host country .

It makes the 40 million pounds that it would cost the Government to Index the Pensions look like a reasonable deal ?

Incidentally, they do tell us, when we apply for our pension that it is not indexed.......but they dont tell us that other countries are not discriminated against. My wife and I had only to move 50 miles South, ( into U.S.A and we could have had a fully indexed pension for the last 19 years

Posted by Stan Tully on November 14, 2008 3:45 AM

If your pension increase depends on which country you emigrated to, then of course the policy is discriminatory and the Court's decision should have acknowledged this. Either noone or everyone should have their pensions uprated. Call this democracy?!

Posted by Hilary Adair on November 13, 2008 10:08 PM

The British Labour Government continues to tell the voters that "Fairness is in our DNA" - Gordon Brown 2008.

"Our commitment to fairness isn't opportunistic or half-hearted. It's deep, real and backed up by action" - Yvette Cooper MP, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, in email to Labour Party members, September 2008.

If the Labour Party really believes its own spin, it should not be fighting against the frozen pensioners in the first place.

It should not be looking to see whether there is some warped legal merit in their view.

In the interests of simple fairness, they should uprate all overseas pensions immediately and not just those for 535,000 living overseas in certain countries like the USA, Switzerland, Israel and Croatia.

The fact that they will probably continue fighting their corner at the Grand Chamber of the ECHR shows them up for what they really are - mis-truth sayers.

Posted by Peter Morris on November 13, 2008 9:58 PM

Dick Corner is so right. It is not fair. I am afraid the noble British concept of fair play is an empty trumpet call used by the present government as a sprat to catch the voting mackerel. It sounds so good but it has no reality where British frozen pensioners are concerned. We pensioners are numerous and we can see through the sham. No doubt we would all vote for the political party willing promise to be fair and give pensioners (no matter where they live in the world) the parity they have paid for with their insurance contributions. At the moment it is not clear if any political party is willing to make such a promise. The money is there - or should be - because national insurance payments are made compulsory to safeguard the indexed pensions promised for our retirement. There is an implied contract there which is not being honoured. Why?

Posted by Dian Elvin on November 13, 2008 9:06 PM

Your report upon the adverse finding of the ECHR in respect frozen pensions aptly highlights the important points that (i) it was lost on technical grounds and that,(ii) as in earlier hearings in lower Courts, one of their members dissented. This lack of unanimity, per se, reinforces the widespread belief, if any were necessary, that this class of aggrieved pensioners are the victims of unfair discrimination.

It is a fact that a simple issue has become distorted as a result of legal process and that legalities hinder a just solution. This sad state of affairs has developed from the process of Case Law imposed upon the Court together with an accumulation of irrelevant matter introduced by advocates acting for the antagonists.

The question is whether it is fair to discriminate between beneficiaries of a social security pension scheme who paid contributions on the same basis simply because some live in certain countries and others live in others. There can be only one just answer. It is not.

The time has come for a Government that not infrequently espouses the noble British concept of fair play, to act fairly and forthwith pay contribution related pensions to all Social Security pensioners.

Posted by Dick Corner on November 13, 2008 4:05 PM

Ref url :- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jht...MC-exp_14112008

marshbags

[marshbags]

Telegraph.Co.Uk, Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 13/11/2008

Court rejects claim of expat frozen pension campaigners

By Ava Hubble

Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 13/11/2008

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has rejected, by six-to-one, the claim of a consortium of expat pensioner groups, that the UK's frozen pensions policy is discriminatory and in breach of the Human Rights Act.

An appeal is expected to be lodged shortly by the consortium, which is financed by contributions from expat "frozen pensioners".

Britons who retire to most Commonwealth and former Commonwealth nations do not have their pensions increased in line with inflation when they leave the UK.

The Polish president of the chamber, Leck Garlicki, said in his dissenting decision: "Considerations of social justice and equity require that persons who have duly contributed towards the pensions of others should not be treated differently in the subsequent calculation of their own pension.

edited by marshbags

I meant to highlight the important bit at the beginning but it didn,t happen for some reason ???

AMBCU, sorry................

marshbags

[marshbags]

Telegraph.Co.Uk, Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 19/11/2008

Pensioners and holidaymakers hit by pound falling to 23-year lows

By Harry Wallop, Consumer Affairs Editor

JP Morgan forecasts that sterling will drop a further 13 per cent against the dollar and 8 per cent versus the euro, as foreign investors shy away from investing in the currency.

The pound will hit a low of $1.28, a level not seen since 1985, and sink to a record low of 92p per euro in early 2009, the bank forecast.

Paul Meggyes, an analyst at the bank, wrote in a research note to clients: "The UK may not be Iceland but the temperature is certainly dropping.

advertisement

"We take an axe to our pound forecasts to reflect the risk of continued bank deleveraging."

He expects international investors to continue selling sterling and instead plump for US dollars, which will send the pound down further.

If the pound, which has already fallen strongly this year, slides further it will hit millions of holidaymakers who will see the price of foreign trips increase.

It will also hit one million expatriate pensioners in Europe, who receive their pensions in sterling, but have to pay their living costs in foreign currency.

Those living in Europe have already seen their average monthly pension income plummet by almost €200 a month thanks to market moves, a collective loss of more than €4 billion of their income in the last two years.

Currency specialists HiFX calculate if the pound weakened to €1.15, overseas pension incomes could fall by a further €750 over the next year. Mark Bodega, a director at the firm, said: "In the current economic slowdown everyone is feeling the pinch.

However, Brits living in Europe and receiving a fixed income in sterling are being hit particularly hard. In the last month we have seen unprecedented volatility in the currency markets with the value of sterling fluctuating by over 6 per cent against the euro.

"Any pensioners who have not set up a regular payments abroad system to transfer their pension income at a fixed exchange rate each month cannot fail to have noticed that they are receiving less."

Yesterday, sterling strenghthened a touch against the dollar to close up 0.03¢ to $1.502, and by 0.01¢ against the euro to close up €1.185

Unquote

I have never heard of the fixed rate exchange facility in relation to pensions, i,ve highlighted in red ???

Is it possible one of our more learned members on finance on this thread, possibly Guest House can provide more insight and advice on this that could be beneficial once it becomes more favourable to possibly do so and the baht / sterling gets back to a decent level.

Other currencies also of course as and where they are used for those from other countries

marshbags

[phupaman]

Hi All

I know the P.C crowd will call me racist,It seems to me that the Brit Gov have lost all sense of

''Fair Play' they deny us expat pensioners our moral right to our pensions we worked and paid for, at the same time have to accomadate and feed millions of families from the E.U.

Accomadation. Health care. Family allowance.Council tax,Education .E S O L ETC ETC.

Not only from within the EU but worldwide,There is no resriction on what they can claim, all they are required to know is how to say one word''Asylum',

I worked in London until age 66 paid all my dues,I used to be proud I was a Londoner, But now I am not so sure.

phupaman.

[4.real]

We should get all increases as the payment taken from our salaries was compulsory.

Add to that figure the 'EMPLOYERS CONTRIBUTION'.. ???

The very clever british government's method of bamboozling you to believe you are paying less for your pension than you actually are.

Do you not think that any employer counts this 'employer's contribution' when working out the salary your job is worth?

If you had wanted to opt out of the national pension scheme you would not be credited with your 'employers contributions' to take to a private pension company.

[Ricardo]

If I paid into a private-pension, when I was working & paying tax in the UK, I would be entitled to normal payments once I reached retirement-age, as per the contract.

It would not matter whether I was living in the UK, or overseas, and I would not expect a higher pension, just because I chose to live in (say) Japan or Switzerland. I would expect & get whatever my contributions over the years had earned me.

But the British government says that it does matter, for their compulsory pension-scheme, where I finally choose to settle. They have their list, who knows or cares how they decided, which countries will get you a frozen pension, and which ones will get you an index-linked one.

My view is that, it is none of the UK government's business, where I decide to live. They do not have the right to tell me, where to live, or that they can penalise any choice they dislike.

For me, this is an issue of freedom, and I don't like their 'Big Brother' attitude. Sadly I have no constitution to protect me from them. Just one more reason for taking my pot of money, and emmigrating, for my remaining years.

But , just because I voted with my feet, doesn't make their policy a fair or right one.