Just had some ladies from a Wat round the other side of the island around asking for tambun donations to their Wat. I told them I am not Buddhist.

Which is true, I am not. Neither do I believe in tambun and if I were going to donate money to a Wat it would be to my local Wat, not that I would because I'd rather donate to the school.

So, what do you say? Do you buckle under and give money? I didn't. My husband is not here, payday for the staff is tomorrow and due to an enormous construction project next door to our place, we are not making any money. Last place I need to throw my money at is a Wat from the other side of the island

Staff looked at me kinda funny and told the lady that my husband wasn't here. Well, he wants to tambun he can go right ahead but I can guarantee you the only reason he would do it would be out of feeling bad for the ladies and not because he actually wanted to donate.

So, what do you say? what do you do? I feel ungracious now, but I am sure I will get over it soon enough

Just had some ladies from a Wat round the other side of the islandSo, what do you say? what do you do? I feel ungracious now, but I am sure I will get over it soon enough

You've no responsibility to give to them or any other Wat. My wife says not to, because if you give to them once, they'll come back again and again and so forth. but up to you

My old company used to give millions to Wats, but nothing to the starving and homeless children..... as if they donate to them it doesnt bring them good luck!

To be honest, i never donate myself to the wat's, as most appear to have plenty of money anyway ...

i would rather donate to the local school or somewhere where i know my money is helping

Boater

The ladies were out in force in the village yesterday collecting and a couple rattled their bowls hopefully at me when I walked the dog.

I leave all charitable donations; religious, civil, regal etc to my Mrs who has to come up with them out of the housekeeping if she's feeling generous.

We have a number of nice framed certificates from the school and temple for slings she's coughed up for but none came from my pocket money.

We donated about 70 sq meters of marble and installation for around the local chedi when it was being constructed. I think my wife and her friends are coughing up for a bell and tower this year. I made it clear to her last year, don't come see me about anything that doesn't involve, health or education assistance. I don't care if our villages' wat is nicer than the one in the next village or not.

Yeah, don't bother about a bell tower, OUR new bell tower is much nicer than any pile of rubbish your village could come up with anyway.

Yeah, don't bother about a bell tower, OUR new bell tower is much nicer than any pile of rubbish your village could come up with anyway.

Hey, that IS a nice belltower. We should give up before we start methinks.

Yeah, don't bother about a bell tower, OUR new bell tower is much nicer than any pile of rubbish your village could come up with anyway.

Hey, that IS a nice belltower. We should give up before we start methinks.

would be a nice decorative item for my back garden.

Comes complete with 6am and 6pm bell ringing monk too. (Works for rice, chocolate bars and cigarettes).

I have, in the past, donated to the local Wat, but that was a long time ago.

The first time my viewpoint changed, I remember it well, was around four years ago. An old lady from the village called on my wife and myself asking if we could give her 20 Baht as she had no money for food, I asked wifey why the old lady didn't go to the Wat for help, her reply was "she has more chance of getting some money from you"

Since that day, I have viewed the monks in a different light completely, I've seen cases of empty beer bottles very badly hidden behind their accommodation, stacks of pornographic magazine inside, nice comfy sofas, expensive HiFi systems and stood behind them at the queue in the bank while they are paying in a bag full of money.... and the poor old dears who haven't got a pot to piss in still dish out a bowl of rice to them at 6am every morning, most of which gets thrown away or given to the temple dogs, in the hope that they may get a lucky number for the next lottery (obviously, one in every hundred does, so that works)

I have the utmost respect for the Buddhist philosophy when practiced properly, I have zero respect for the saffron robed leaches we have here, which has unfortunately tainted my view of anyone that approaches me with am envelope.

To me it's a non issue. It's part of living in rural Thailand so my wife factors it into her budget.

Making a big deal about it is like complaining about driving to the border when my visa runs out as far as I'm concerned.

I'm aware that a percentage misbehave, I suppose that applies to the clergy in any religion, but the ones I know seem to be basically decent.

So, what do you say? Do you buckle under and give money? I didn't.

I feel ungracious now, but I am sure I will get over it soon enough

Did they say what the money was for? The various envelopes that circulate around my office state what the money is to be used for. It varies from building a new temple, to repairing a temple, to building meditation huts for monks, to sponsoring a mass ordination of poor people.

The point of generosity (hai thaan) in the Buddhist context is to cultivate the mind with the aim of attaining enlightenment. Generosity towards monastics (tham boon) is an extension of that, but the Pali Canon specifies in detail the benefits you'll get from it (especially building a monastery) in the next life, which is why so many new temples are being built even though the number of monks is declining. You get the benefits from the act of giving, so it doesn't matter much if the monks throw away your rice or don't use the hut you paid for.

However, originally there was no money involved. You gave rice, built a hut or helped build a monastery. That way the monks only got what they needed and could never have any kind of "surplus income" - with all the problems that creates.

For a non-Buddhist, I don't see the point in donating money to temples. Few of the monks are aiming at enlightenment, and many of them these days are not even observing the monastic code. Do we need more temples? No, we need monks who are genuine renunciants. This is why the Dhammakaya sect is so popular. Despite its faults, the monks are serious about the monastic code.

Personally, I donate to wats overseas in the Thai Forest tradition where I know the monks are serious and follow the monastic code.

...in the hope that they may get a lucky number for the next lottery (obviously, one in every hundred does, so that works)

I think giving alms in the morning is more a matter of securing a fortunate next life. For a lucky lottery number you visit a fortune-teller or the Erawan Shrine, etc.

For a lucky lottery number you visit a fortune-teller or the Erawan Shrine, etc.

Here out in the sticks in CM, it is often the abbots who practice astrology, at a guess because of the neverending demand from the villagers.

As I understand it (and I am sure I'll be corrected if I am wrong), practicing astrology in order to determine auspicious days is not allowed under the Vinaya. But it's not strange the practive lives on given how deeply ingrained the superstitions are in the culture.

Here out in the sticks in CM, it is often the abbots who practice astrology, at a guess because of the neverending demand from the villagers.

Sure, it could be a monk or layperson, but AFAIK giving food to bintabat monks is not done with the objective of winning lotteries. Apparently, Thais do pester famous monks for winning numbers, though.

No, camerata, they didn't tell me, nor did I ask. I felt no need to tambun regardless of what the money was for.

Although, I suppose if the money had been for the construction of a school at the Wat I might have been more inclined.

Its a difficult situation for me as I am well known here and do go to the wat for funerals. But for me that has always been more of a notice to the bereaved that I care, rather than anything else. I have to add that local Muslims also go to the Wat for funerals of Buddhists and I am sure nobody went to their houses asking for donations.

But, I told my husband about it and he shrugged his shoulders, he wasn't bothered either way.

As a lay scholar of the Protestant Reformation (radical Anabaptist branch), I imagine that I see here in Thailand what Luther and many reformers saw in Europe by the early 1500's: a professional but poorly trained and poorly supervised clergy who were so generally corrupt as to justify the Reformation. My dead friend in Hua Hin likened it to the sale of indulgences, which prompted Luther's break with Rome.

But I am not a student of Buddhism. Like most Caucasians, Jesus' commands not go give alms publicly, not to even let one hand know what the other hand was doing, not to neglect widows and orphans, not to place importance on the great temple, etc., stick with me. If you like, I will append The Steeple Song by Don Francisco.

My Thai partner is a good Buddhist, but he knows not to ask me for donations.

The Steeple Song asks, "do the widow and the orphan cry alone?"

In the office I'm appoached from time to time by passing people dressed as monks, both male and female, I stare blankly until they go away. my Thai staff agree most if not all are just people attempting to get something from tourists that don't know any better.

My wife does tambon to her prefered wat once a year around the time of her birthday, it's not too much and I support her in doing so.

My reason for posting rather than just another "me too", is that my wife also organises a lunch at her former school. I understand that the kids enjoy the change of food including ice cream and other less healthy options that she arranges for them. I prefer this more direct action, she (and I) know that the act of kindness benifits directly those it is indended for.

Occasionally someone in the office brings around envelopes which as someone said, always have a specific purpose for a specific Wat. As you seal the envelopes no one should know (or care) what you give. The important thing is to give.

Here is the bell tower that was built in my MIL village, with some of the money from my colleagues, the amount of which I have no idea, but about 20 of them gave something.

For the OP, is sounds like this is a much more informal request, which you drop in a bowl or something and I can see why you would not do that, deferring instead to your husband to take care of it.

TH

Occasionally someone in the office brings around envelopes which as someone said, always have a specific purpose for a specific Wat. As you seal the envelopes no one should know (or care) what you give. The important thing is to give.

Here is the bell tower that was built in my MIL village, with some of the money from my colleagues, the amount of which I have no idea, but about 20 of them gave something.

For the OP, is sounds like this is a much more informal request, which you drop in a bowl or something and I can see why you would not do that, deferring instead to your husband to take care of it.

TH

Looks like domeone should take up a collection for a weedwhacker.

At my shop, every couple of months a pick-up will pull up and a monk gets out and delivers a bucket of sticks with coloured string on them. My staff understands that I will support the local school or wat, and one in Ubon (they don't need the money)but this is for a wat in Ranong or some place a long way away. The bucket is accepted and placed out the back, when the monk returns in a week or so the bucket and sticks are returned. The staff will not say no, and the monk keeps coming, culture I suppose. Funny enough no locals have come begging.

I have, in the past, donated to the local Wat, but that was a long time ago.

The first time my viewpoint changed, I remember it well, was around four years ago. An old lady from the village called on my wife and myself asking if we could give her 20 Baht as she had no money for food, I asked wifey why the old lady didn't go to the Wat for help, her reply was "she has more chance of getting some money from you"

Since that day, I have viewed the monks in a different light completely, I've seen cases of empty beer bottles very badly hidden behind their accommodation, stacks of pornographic magazine inside, nice comfy sofas, expensive HiFi systems and stood behind them at the queue in the bank while they are paying in a bag full of money.... and the poor old dears who haven't got a pot to piss in still dish out a bowl of rice to them at 6am every morning, most of which gets thrown away or given to the temple dogs, in the hope that they may get a lucky number for the next lottery (obviously, one in every hundred does, so that works)

I have the utmost respect for the Buddhist philosophy when practiced properly, I have zero respect for the saffron robed leaches we have here, which has unfortunately tainted my view of anyone that approaches me with am envelope.

Yep, I share your opinion, Thad.

I get these envelopes coming around the college every so often and landing on my desk. My immediate colleagues know my views by now and anyway, I'm not Buddhist. But the collector always looks at me as if to say "Hey, you're a rich falang. Why are you being so stingey?" As in the UK, I'll happily donate to a worthy cause and that includes (although I don't align myself with any religion) my local parish church as, mostly, the collections are for orphans or disaster-victims overseas, etc. But if your baht are just going to be spent on some "status" competition with another village's wat, then they can stuff it.

I attend tamboons frequently, usually by conditioning. Regardless if I give a rat's ass or not. Social and familiar extentions. I don't need to find it political......as most of you do.