I have oft thought certain instance in the UK were regarded in a differing manner to what I think a just and reasonable outcome, mainly due to age old preference to property over person.

One particular instance being the Ealing rape of a young lady '86, where two young men and an older man intended to rob a vicarage and encountered a young lady, whilst the older man stole the possessions, the two younger men brutally raped the young lady.

Guess what? the young men got 3 & 5 years and the robber 14 years go figure that one? Partial Link Trust me, I remember this, it was horrific.

I firmly believe that there are two reasons why there is relative peace!? in the six North Eastern Counties of Ireland and by natural progression the UK, one of which is the IRA started attacking the banking and investment of the square mile in London, not people mind, but money and investment, there was threats of International companies and countries moving a substantial amount of business out of London.

Hence peace talks that had begun in '72, albeit secret, materialised decades later.

So this brings me to Josef Fritzl, what is the more heinous crime in your opinion, murder, rape, robbery or 24 years of imprisonment and rape and to cap it all, your own daughter.

I know what I think

( I forgot the link ) There be monsters

Moss

Flippping 'eck Moss, this is heavy - that link is horrific...

I know Tigs, but which link are you referring? They are both as horrific as each other, but what highlights my main point is a doddery old judge states that the young woman had come out of it quite well and proceeds to give a man 14 years for robbery, something I don't entirely disagree with, but the two lads an insignificant sentence, they were actually out in very short time, they didn't carry full term.

Moss

trouble is Josef Fritzl is nearly dead anyway, what kind of punishment is ' Life ' in prison for him

stone the bastard !

Is There Anything Worse Than Murder?

there is. drinking hot milk with a "skin" formed on its top in the presence of civilised people

The Austrian episode is just too horrific for me to contemplate. I have to believe its a one in a billion occurence, for my own emotional well being.

I'm going to go another way in answering the OP, and suggest that posters to the "Change A Letter" thread might be a good litmus test for culling the herd.

The Austrian episode is just too horrific for me to contemplate. I have to believe its a one in a billion occurence, for my own emotional well being.

Just read the link, and feel the same.

To bring someones life to a premature end is a terrible and shocking crime, especially if it is premeditated. But to make someones life a living hel_l and psychologically scar them for the rest of it could be considered as worse.

I know Tigs, but which link are you referring? They are both as horrific as each other, but what highlights my main point is a doddery old judge states that the young woman had come out of it quite well and proceeds to give a man 14 years for robbery, something I don't entirely disagree with, but the two lads an insignificant sentence, they were actually out in very short time, they didn't carry full term.

Moss

I meant the latter one, I didn't spot the first one.

I get your point though. Having thought about this, he is guilty of murder, that of his daughter's child, yet what he did to his daughter was probably worse than murder. Permanently locked up, raped by her Father, giving birth to children who never see the light of day and countless other things that I'm sure we don't know about.

This case is evil!

That bastard raped his own daughter over 3000 times in 24 years, he chained her up, she said for the first 9 years he never spoke to her during the rapes, her children had to sit and listen to all that... And remember the photos of his holiday in Thailand?

I wonder if Kirsten. who had to be hospitalised. was not the one that saved that poor family and got them out of that hel_l hole - she might have been next - after all she is 19.

I just hope that they can get on with their lives knowing that they are safe and looked after. and that they will prosper and become as happy as they can be.

She was a very brave woman to go to court and confront him.

And then it comes back to the Social Services - why did they not try to find Elizabeth in the "so called cult" and question her on why she "left three babies" on her parents' doorstep? There is going to be hel_l to pay now. But at least he is out of the picture.

They could have done DNA tests on the "upstairs kids" to find their biological father - but then they probably wouldn't have thought to do the tests on their own grandfather. Or they would have found anomalities in the DNA.

Sorry, i have been overcome by this story and it is beyond belief and finally that c word has been found out to be what he is. Hurray,

These are horrific crimes, but my thought is that murder is worse. Murder is final. In this (these) cases, the victims have the opportunity to get on with their life. Once your dead, that option doesn't exist.

Did that little baby deserve to die and be burned in the family barbeque because his father/grandfather didn't take him to the hospital. I am sure that that poor daughter craved that her father would kill her on numerous occasions.

There's another, even worse outcome: someone abuses a person, makes his/her life a living hel_l, scars him/her permanently, and THEN that person commits suicide out of despair.

Fritzl's warped idea of family life

Josef Fritzl will serve his life sentence in a purpose-built psychiatric prison in Vienna, where he will share a cell, but have access to a computer, a television, a music centre and can even keep a pet. He'll have the chance to make his own tea and coffee and can attend language classes. His lawyer said: "It's not like a hotel, but he would like a prison close to home because it may be that relatives will go to see him." Really? His wife Rosemarie is divorcing him – I doubt she'll be queuing for a visitor's pass.

His daughter Elisabeth, whom he incarcerated in a cellar and raped more than 3,000 times, is facing a lifetime of therapy. I doubt she'll want to meet. The six surviving children are all having varying degrees of difficulty adjusting to their freedom, and face a struggle to preserve their privacy. So, on balance, I don't think Herr Fritzl should hold his breath for a family visit.

Link IoS

Moss