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Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...


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I just spotted a GH Bank branch in Carrefour On Nut, close inspection of the ATM outside and NO international card (VISA, MC, cirrus) logos.

Yeah, GH Bank appears to be a no-goer. I came across another of their machines today at Central Lad Phrao.

I had a good look, but no Visa/MC/Cirrus logos, just an 'ATM pool' sign which suggests it'll accept other Thai bank cards, (but not International ones). :)

And I happened today to wander by the Sukhumvit Branch, which is located in the Glasshaus Building at the corner of Soi 25, just a bit east of the Asoke intersection. If they have an ATM there, I couldn't find it. The branch itself was closed by the late afternoon hour I walked past.

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Namoo, I checked on this branch today, just to reconfirm my memory.

It literally is almost directly across the street from The Emporium, but just a little ways east/further out on Sukhumvit Road. If you walk down the eastern-most BTS exit from Phrom Phong Station on that side of the street, you'll just about be at the doorsteps of the branch.

It's a pretty dingy building, and they have one exterior ATM fronting the main road. It had an "ATM Pool" logo on it, but no Visa logo that I could see. However, I assume it will accept Visa cards, same at the GSB ATM at Asoke BTS station.

Anyone got a list of locations of GSB ATM's in BKK cannot see it on their website.

Here are some GSB branch locations from the Thai Yellow Pages:

Wattana Branch, 659 Sukhumvit Soi 39, 02-258-6077

(39 is Soi Phrom Phong, opposite side of Sukhumvit Rd. from The Emporium)

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41 pages, 150 baht???? wow must be a real big deal? You guys making 6 withdrawals a day or what? Go to the bank and dont pay atm fee, someone must have stated this somewhere in the 41 pages, I dont have a week to look.

But you do seem to have the time to make pointless comments :)

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41 pages, 150 baht???? wow must be a real big deal? You guys making 6 withdrawals a day or what? Go to the bank and dont pay atm fee, someone must have stated this somewhere in the 41 pages, I dont have a week to look.

But you do seem to have the time to make pointless comments :)

went to the Bangkok bank and used my card and passport ,i think they shafted me on the exchange rate ,will report back.

as for the govt savings bank ,the head office machine on pattaya north rd gives out 10k ,but the machine in dot com wont pay out on my n/wide card,no charges today at 3pm.

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"went to the Bangkok bank and used my card and passport, i think they shafted me on the exchange rate, will report back"

YES! -- Please do -- that should be very enlightening for all of us -- and if my guess is correct, it will give the members of the "Teller vs. ATM gang", who wander in here occasionally, something to ponder :)

.

Edited by SurfTrader
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First of all, the only way you would know if a fee is being charges is to do what I did the beginning of this month. I made an ATM withdrawal at SCB ATM, and then made another withdrawal at a Kasikorn, ( Thai Farmers Bank) for the exact same amount. Then went home and logged on to my Internet banking, and sure enough the SCB withdrawal showed up as $4.13 more than the Kasikorn with no fee at that time. The fee is rolled into your withdrawal amount. They do not show it separately.

Now I hear Kasikorn is charging the fee, and some people say TGB is also charging the 150 Baht. If the ATM comes up with a message that you may be charged 150 Baht fee, then I can assure you you will. Also on Exchange rates, your home bank does not determine the exchange rate in Thailand.

Barry

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First of all, the only way you would know if a fee is being charges is to do what I did the beginning of this month. I made an ATM withdrawal at SCB ATM, and then made another withdrawal at a Kasikorn, ( Thai Farmers Bank) for the exact same amount. Then went home and logged on to my Internet banking, and sure enough the SCB withdrawal showed up as $4.13 more than the Kasikorn with no fee at that time. The fee is rolled into your withdrawal amount. They do not show it separately.

Now I hear Kasikorn is charging the fee, and some people say TGB is also charging the 150 Baht. If the ATM comes up with a message that you may be charged 150 Baht fee, then I can assure you you will. Also on Exchange rates, your home bank does not determine the exchange rate in Thailand.

Barry

I have just withdrawn 14000Baht from a Bank of AyudHya ATM using my UK Nationwide Flex Debit Card. It said no fee and I got a rate of 54.37Baht/£UK although their web site was only showing 54.16Baht/£UK for TT. By comparison I checked Bangkok Bank TT rate and it is showing 54.28.

Edited by John45
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First of all, the only way you would know if a fee is being charges is to do what I did the beginning of this month. I made an ATM withdrawal at SCB ATM, and then made another withdrawal at a Kasikorn, ( Thai Farmers Bank) for the exact same amount. Then went home and logged on to my Internet banking, and sure enough the SCB withdrawal showed up as $4.13 more than the Kasikorn with no fee at that time. The fee is rolled into your withdrawal amount. They do not show it separately.

Barry, I've only paid the 150 baht ATM fee one time as an experiment. But as best as I recall, the 150 baht amount did show up separately on the paper ATM receipt I received. And the bank's ATM video screen did warn me of the 150 baht fee prior to the transactions. So those are also some ways to know if a bank's ATM will charge the fee.

But I believe you are also correct in terms of the fee not showing up separately in your home bank's online banking ledger. Once it gets back to your home country, the fee and the withdrawal amount seem to get rolled together, at least in terms of the way your bank shows it to you.

Now I hear Kasikorn is charging the fee, and some people say TGB is also charging the 150 Baht. If the ATM comes up with a message that you may be charged 150 Baht fee, then I can assure you you will. Also on Exchange rates, your home bank does not determine the exchange rate in Thailand.

Barry

That's not always the case. Government Savings Bank ATMs have a video screen notice that some kind of inter-region fee will be charged. It doesn't say 150 baht or any specific amount. But if you go ahead with the withdrawal, at least thus far, no fee is being charged there for foreign ATM cards.

Also, home banks may not determine exchange rates in Thailand, but they do determine what fees or percentages they will take out of your withdrawal, which affects how much you ultimately are charged (or in other words), what your ultimate net exchange rate is.

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Calling all Nationwide customers on here. I read that the N/W card cash account (cirus) I think was not charging the 1% charge that the Visa Flexi Account does.

As I have 4 Flexi visa accounts I contact the H/O via internet to ask if I could open a C/C account to be advised I could.

Their info says you CAN NOT have one so I asked H/O AGAIN to get the same answer that I could, confused I was.

Went into branch today to open account to be advised that I couldn't however on producing the e'mail Correspondence saying I could they went to check.

After waiting 15mins still no answer from H/O and advised they - "will let me know",

Question, has anyone else managed to open a C/C account with Nationwide while still retaining their Flexi account. If so can you say what branch did it.

Sorry to all NON Nationwide customers,

JF - just like to say your doing a grand job checking all the info to make life easier for all expats.

BT :)

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"I have just withdrawn 14000 Baht from a Bank of AyudHya ATM . . . I got a rate of 54.37 Baht/£UK although their web site was only showing 54.16 Baht/£UK for TT. By comparison I checked Bangkok Bank TT rate and it is showing 54.28"

Check with X-Rates - they're reporting 54.72 for Monday and 54.75 for Tuesday

X-Rates: "2009-05-25 Monday, May 25 54.72 THB" --- "2009-05-26 Tuesday, May 26 54.7512 THB"

For US$ rates, they consistently come VERY close to matching the best rates that Expats are receiving in Thailand via Debit Cards that are not encumbered by processing and exchange fees on either end.

In your case, for 14,000 Baht, it looks like you're being hit for about 97 Baht -- If you were transferring 100,000 per month, that would amount to about a 700 Baht hit.

Obviously, some of the people popping in and out of this forum couldn't care less about being hit for a few hundred Baht per month on a consistent basis-- but if it were me, I'd at least be willing to ask a few questions in hopes of learning who belongs to the pocket that your hard-earned funds are being diverted to.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/THB/GBP/data120.html

.

Edited by SurfTrader
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Calling all Nationwide customers on here. I read that the N/W card cash account (cirus) I think was not charging the 1% charge that the Visa Flexi Account does.

As I have 4 Flexi visa accounts I contact the H/O via internet to ask if I could open a C/C account to be advised I could.

Their info says you CAN NOT have one so I asked H/O AGAIN to get the same answer that I could, confused I was.

Went into branch today to open account to be advised that I couldn't however on producing the e'mail Correspondence saying I could they went to check.

After waiting 15mins still no answer from H/O and advised they - "will let me know",

Question, has anyone else managed to open a C/C account with Nationwide while still retaining their Flexi account. If so can you say what branch did it.

Sorry to all NON Nationwide customers,

JF - just like to say your doing a grand job checking all the info to make life easier for all expats.

BT :)

Bigtoe - I know that this topic has attracted a lot of posts but your question has already been answered if you would like to refer back. You can apply for a 'downgrade' from VISA to CIRRUS (Mastercard) - all you seem to lose is the potential for an overdraft facility. If this concerns you, open a second account and just downgrade on that one.

Online response to my request was as follows:-

"We do not offer a Mastercard, however we do offer a cash card FlexAccount which has the Cirrus logo. If you no longer wish to have the VISA Debit card, you can arrange at your local branch to have your account downgraded.

However, I must bring to your attention, that if you were to downgrade your account, you would no longer be able to have an overdraft facility and the card could not be used to make VISA purchases."

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Calling all Nationwide customers on here. I read that the N/W card cash account (cirus) I think was not charging the 1% charge that the Visa Flexi Account does.

As I have 4 Flexi visa accounts I contact the H/O via internet to ask if I could open a C/C account to be advised I could.

Their info says you CAN NOT have one so I asked H/O AGAIN to get the same answer that I could, confused I was.

Went into branch today to open account to be advised that I couldn't however on producing the e'mail Correspondence saying I could they went to check.

After waiting 15mins still no answer from H/O and advised they - "will let me know",

Question, has anyone else managed to open a C/C account with Nationwide while still retaining their Flexi account. If so can you say what branch did it.

Sorry to all NON Nationwide customers,

JF - just like to say your doing a grand job checking all the info to make life easier for all expats.

BT :)

When i opened my cashcard account 4 years ago, i already had a flexaccount with a visa debit card. No problems and nothing was said at the branch at the time.

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Question, has anyone else managed to open a C/C account with Nationwide while still retaining their Flexi account. If so can you say what branch did it.

When i opened my cashcard account 4 years ago, i already had a flexaccount with a visa debit card. No problems and nothing was said at the branch at the time.

Found this on the website:-

Cash Card Account

The Nationwide Cash Card Account is our basic current account. This is most appropriate for customers receiving state benefits or pension. To be eligible for a Nationwide Cash Card Account you must:

  • be aged 18 or over
  • not have an existing current account with Nationwide Building Society

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Also on Exchange rates, your home bank does not determine the exchange rate in Thailand.

No, usually they use the network rate, but they can set their own rate:

although Visa and Mastercard notify the card-issuing bank of the exchange rate to be applied, the bank is not obliged to adhere to it, and may use a more advantageous rate if it feels like doing so.

See this link

If you're implying that the Thai ATM owner is setting his rates, why would he? He's not playing the arbitrage/forex game with his machine, so he doesn't care what rate you, the customer, is getting. The ATM owner will get his 25000bt (or whatever you withdrew), or maybe now, 25150bt, plus the equivalent of 40 or 50 cents. Your dollars are near realtime converted to baht, to end up in the ATM owner's account, using the network rate. If your issuing bank has established his own rate, thus building in an artificial 'buy sell' spread, the ATM owner is not affected -- he still gets reimbursed at the network rate. But you, the card holder, pay more in dollars -- which end up in the banker's pocket -- and which functions as "fees" when you do the math, even tho' the shyster banker says, "hey, we don't have any fees here."

Now, it looks like this artificial 'buy sell' spread is going to work for the ATM owner, in the form of DCC.

But if you do business in the bank lobby, that is where the posted rates take effect -- and where the banker is actively in the "buy sell" routine. That's how he makes money. But I'm sure all the ATM owners are salivating, as they read 'how DCC can work for YOU!' And why Visa is not offering DCC for ATM owners, hoping DCC, if widely implemented, will cause the sound of scissors on plastic -- MC/Cirrus plastic

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Calling all Nationwide customers on here. I read that the N/W card cash account (cirus) I think was not charging the 1% charge that the Visa Flexi Account does.

As I have 4 Flexi visa accounts I contact the H/O via internet to ask if I could open a C/C account to be advised I could.

Their info says you CAN NOT have one so I asked H/O AGAIN to get the same answer that I could, confused I was.

Went into branch today to open account to be advised that I couldn't however on producing the e'mail Correspondence saying I could they went to check.

After waiting 15mins still no answer from H/O and advised they - "will let me know",

Question, has anyone else managed to open a C/C account with Nationwide while still retaining their Flexi account. If so can you say what branch did it.

Sorry to all NON Nationwide customers,

JF - just like to say your doing a grand job checking all the info to make life easier for all expats.

BT :)

Hi there, i am in the UK now and have thoroughly checked over the details regarding opening a C/C acc. You need to cancel one of your flex accounts. This account then needs to be closed for 6 months before an application for C/C act can be processed and accepted. Hope this helps.

(I noticed you said you have 4 accounts. Are they all under the same name? because i have 2 under the same name which i thought was the limit. I just ask because i was told you can't have a 2 flex acc and a C/C acc.)

I was told that with the C/C you can only use it in machines that display the CIRRUS sign as opposed to the VISA sign. Can anybody tell me if they are just as common as the visa signs and if not are they easy to find?

Edited by Steps
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Here's some in-depth data on the International ATM Money Transfer Game ( for committed brainiacs only :) )

http://flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Credi...oreign_Exchange

Where you can get hit with fees

For any given card transaction, there are three possible places where you can get hit for foreign exchange fees:

  1. By the merchant/ATM-owner
  2. By the card-issuing bank (Bank of America, Citi, Chase, etc...)
  3. By whoever calculates the actual exchange rate underlying everything

Edited by SurfTrader
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regarding the thai banks 150 baht ATM fee and VISA vs MC....

I'm not familiar with the whole Nationwide card thing, being an American... but I can say this...

Right now, the Thai ATMSs not charging the 150 baht fee are as follows:

Government Savings Bank - ATMs only take Visa

UOB - AtMs take Visa and MC, but some indication they will soon start charging the fee

Ayudhya - ATMs take Visa and MC, but likely they will soon begin charging the fee

(also with Ayudhya, they are doing Dynamic Currency Conversion with their Euro-based MasterCard withdrawals, which means a bad exchange rate for those transactions)

AEON - they may take Visa and MC, but we're not sure about their status yet

Previously, I was using a U.s. MasterCard logo debit card for most of my ATM cash withdrawals. But I've recently switched to a VISA based card, because it seems likely that Government Savings Bank may be one of the best options for avoiding the 150 baht ATM fee in the long term. It seems likely that the UOB option will soon disappear, as one poster here found a memo announcement on the UOB web site saying they planned to charge the fee.

UOB and Ayudhya are members of the thai banking cabal that cooked up the 150 baht fee. GSB and AEON are not.

So, in summary, it's easy to find Cirrus logo/MasterCard accepting ATMs in Thailand. But it soon may be almost impossible to find ones that don't charge the 150 baht ATM fee for foreign card-based withdrawals.

In that case, it could become a question, which is the greater economy to the particular user, depending on how they withdraw their funds: avoiding the 150 baht fee per withdrawal but having the 1% deducted with the Nationwide visas, or paying 150 baht each time but saving the 1% with the CashCard.

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Previously, I was using a U.s. MasterCard logo debit card for most of my ATM cash withdrawals

JC, was that card as fee-free as your Schwab card apparently is? I can't remember, during your journey thru every ATM colony in Bangkok :) ,ever seeing a comparison of your top Visa card with your top MC card........?

I'd love to know if both networks approximate to the IER identically...... Unfortunately, any difference could mean a 'buried' fee of some sort.... Oh, well.

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Jim, I had only been using one particular MC logo debit card here, a supposedly no foreign transaction fee one, belonging to a regional U.s. bank -- one that supposedly will reimburse atm fees worldwide up to $25 per month (automatically if the fees are charged separately, by mailed request if they're lumped in with your withdrawal).

In my experience with that card, it was netting just under the TT buying rates that I was seeing.... but nowhere close to the Interbank Exchange Rate amounts that the Schwab Visa and ETrade Visa seem to be netting. Of course, my other prior U.S. Visa logo debit card was paying even less than the MC, even apart from them charging and then refunding back to me a 1% foreign currency fee.

The difference with the MasterCard card probably worked out to about .30 baht or so less than the IER rate, and maybe 10-15 points less than the buying TT, which makes me think someone somewhere was taking a 1% cut out of my pocket... Whether that was my home bank or MasterCard, I have no way to know.

I just know it was never above buying TT. And then when the 150 baht fee came along and Government Savings Bank became my new friend, I ditched the MC card.... Still have the account, but don't use that card here anymore.

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"I have just withdrawn 14000 Baht from a Bank of AyudHya ATM . . . I got a rate of 54.37 Baht/£UK although their web site was only showing 54.16 Baht/£UK for TT. By comparison I checked Bangkok Bank TT rate and it is showing 54.28"

Check with X-Rates - they're reporting 54.72 for Monday and 54.75 for Tuesday

X-Rates: "2009-05-25 Monday, May 25 54.72 THB" --- "2009-05-26 Tuesday, May 26 54.7512 THB"

For US$ rates, they consistently come VERY close to matching the best rates that Expats are receiving in Thailand via Debit Cards that are not encumbered by processing and exchange fees on either end.

In your case, for 14,000 Baht, it looks like you're being hit for about 97 Baht -- If you were transferring 100,000 per month, that would amount to about a 700 Baht hit.

Obviously, some of the people popping in and out of this forum couldn't care less about being hit for a few hundred Baht per month on a consistent basis-- but if it were me, I'd at least be willing to ask a few questions in hopes of learning who belongs to the pocket that your hard-earned funds are being diverted to.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/THB/GBP/data120.html

.

On occasions when I have withdrawn twice in one day I have received, on some days, considerably different exchange rates. I always believed that the exchange rate, especially the THB/GBP rate, varied throughout the day.

I don’t know what figure X-rates gives. Is it an average throughout the day, is it mid market, buying, selling, closing or what?

Yesterday’s exchange rate was approx. 8% better than I received just a few short weeks ago. Clearly it is better to choose the right time to transfer (if only we could see what the future has in store for us).

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"I don't know what figure X-rates gives. Is it an average throughout the day, is it mid market, buying, selling, closing or what?"

It's true that the exchange rates vary throughout the day -- I've occasionally received a slightly different rate for two withdrawals that were done over a two minute time span.

SCB is not necessarily a good source of rates, but their historical rate WWW clearly shows rates varying throughout the day -- for example, on May 11, they show 14 different quotes for that day.

http://www.scb.co.th/html/exchange/bk-pvsexchange.htm

It's probably impossible to guess exactly where and how X-Rates generates their rates, but it has been observed and reported in this thread, that they VERY closely match the Interbank Exchange Rate ( IER ), which has been the best rate reported for an Expat to receive from an ATM in Thailand.

Here is X-Rates explanation - they only report once daily, around 24:00 hours ( Midnight, Thai time ):

What is the source of the data on this site ?

The exchange rates on this site are based on rates released by a few select public free sources. Depending on their availability the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank, Bank of Canada or the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

http://www.x-rates.com/faq.html

.

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Another update on the UOB bank ATM situation:

I withdrew another 30,000 THB today, in one transaction from a UOB ATM, using my Singapore HSBC Mastercard Electronic/Cirrus card. No local 150 baht fee. Rate worked out at 23.432923 THB/SGD after allowing for the 8 SGD fee my bank charges.

Thai bank T/T buying rates at that time:

SCB 23.59875

UOB 23.58600

KTB 23.5975

Talked to the staff & manager in the branch and after a little uncertainty they said that foreign "ATM cards" would pay the 150 baht fee but Visa/Mcard/Cirrus cards would not, though Visa/MC transactions would be subject to the (1%?) exchange rate hit.

Seems that might be correct.

CMMCB

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Talked to the staff & manager in the branch and after a little uncertainty they said that foreign "ATM cards" would pay the 150 baht fee but Visa/Mcard/Cirrus cards would not

This doesn't make sense to me.

Aren't pretty much all 'Foreign' ATM cards either Visa/Mcard/or Cirrus??

Edited by thecatman
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I was told that with the C/C you can only use it in machines that display the CIRRUS sign as opposed to the VISA sign. Can anybody tell me if they are just as common as the visa signs and if not are they easy to find?

CIRRUS is part of Mastercard and logic says that where you see a Mastercard symbol, you will also be able to use CIRRUS ?

http://www.mastercard.com/uk/personal/en/f...bit-cirrus.html

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I likewise have not the slightest idea what that version is supposed to mean, CMMCB....

Sounds like the local Thai bank staff talking out of both sides of their mouth, and neither mouth having the slightest clue of what they're talking about.

If you can further translate that account into English, please do....

Talked to the staff & manager in the branch and after a little uncertainty they said that foreign "ATM cards" would pay the 150 baht fee but Visa/Mcard/Cirrus cards would not

This doesn't make sense to me.

Aren't pretty much all 'Foreign' ATM cards either Visa/Mcard/or Cirrus??

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Question, has anyone else managed to open a C/C account with Nationwide while still retaining their Flexi account. If so can you say what branch did it.

When i opened my cashcard account 4 years ago, i already had a flexaccount with a visa debit card. No problems and nothing was said at the branch at the time.

Found this on the website:-

Cash Card Account

The Nationwide Cash Card Account is our basic current account. This is most appropriate for customers receiving state benefits or pension. To be eligible for a Nationwide Cash Card Account you must:

  • be aged 18 or over
  • not have an existing current account with Nationwide Building Society
    Qote Number 2 ( This is exactly why I contacted N/W Head office twice and went into the branch.) - Still no reply from them yet but will keep you posted.

(I noticed you said you have 4 accounts. Are they all under the same name? because i have 2 under the same name which i thought was the limit. I just ask because i was told you can't have a 2 flex acc and a C/C acc.)

I was also told you can only have two accounts but I have :

A/ Single account in my name

B/ Joint accounts with , Brother, father and girl friend ( 3 )

I Can use all accounts on line and I am the only person who can access any of the accounts as I kept all the codes. ( Being Scottish and careful )

Hope this helps.

BT

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ATTENTION THAI ATM SUFFERERS.... YOU HAVE A NEW FRIEND....

I had some computer accessory shopping to do today, so headed over to FortuneTown Complex, and while I was there, stopped at the Tesco-Lotus store there to check out its AEON ATM machine to get the low-down on these puppies...

Indeed, from my test, AEON ATMs seem to function pretty much like regular bank ATMs, charge no fees or surcharges (including no 150 baht fee), and accept the major international debit and credit cards, including Visa, MasterCard, JCB, Plus and Maestro logo cards.

I used my U.S. Visa logo debit card, and got a rate today about 2:24 pm of 34.38 baht to the U.S. $. By comparison, yesterday's Interbank Exchange Rate from the BOT website was 34.43, and yesterday's X-rates figure was 34.48 (neither had a figure for today/Wednesday posted yet). Today's Bangkok Bank buying TT rate midday was 34.24. (Your rate may vary, depending on what home bank card you're using, and how much they take out in fees).

Although AEON ATMs are not as widespread as those belonging to Thai banks, they tend to be located in many of the major shopping centers and malls. The FortuneTown Tesco-Lotus one (the complex located right at the MRT Rama 9 Station) is located on the first floor of the Tesco-Lotus store, in an alcove at the far end of the store with several other ATMs.

In prior posts in this thread, another poster posted the AEON Thailand web site, which allows you to search for their ATM locations in Thailand using an English interface. In a prior post here, I also listed a half dozen or so AEON ATM locations in some of the more farang oriented areas, such as FortuneTown and MBK and Silom Center.

One nice thing about AEON ATMs is they are MasterCard friendly, and it's looking to become otherwise difficult to find ATMs in Thailand that take MasterCards and don't charge the 150 baht fee. UOB takes MCs now, but the bank has a notice on their web site saying they're planning to start charging the 150 baht fee. And Government Savings Bank, unfortunately, only takes VISA cards.

Interestingly, there was a video text notice on the AEON ATM telling their customers (people with AEON VISA and MasterCard credit cards, which is their main business) that many Thai banks have begun charging 150 baht ATM fees. But the notice told them not to worry, because they can do cash advances at the AEON ATMs without having to worry about the fee. And I'm glad to say, likewise for us farangs....

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