Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[wimpy]

Barry, I'm not great at math, but my calculator never lies...

$45 yielding 1500 baht means you got an exchange rate of 33.33, not 34.42 as you mentioned above...

And 33.33 wasn't a great rate for the day in question.

You get to the 33.33 amount by dividing the baht you got (1500) by the amount you were charged ($45).

You might be correct, but the way I did it was multiply 34.42 by $45.00.

Barry

That's 1548 baht.

[Chaimai]

Kasikorn 20,000 over the counter today with Nationwide VISA debit card. No charge and 'blocked' rate 55.42. Will check tomorrow for ACTUAL rate.

I am also getting the 'communication error' message with Nationwide VISA and CIRRUS cards in GSB ATMs. I really want to try out my new downgraded Flexaccount CIRRUS card but I may have to wait to find an AEON ATM machine.

Edited June 23, 2009 by Chaimai

[parryhandy]

Also finding that my nationwide visa card will not work at the moment with my local GSB atm.

[BuckBee]

Also finding that my nationwide visa card will not work at the moment with my local GSB atm.

My wife pulled 2,000฿ from a GSB ATM today on my Nationwide. I assume it's just a technical issue with some ATM's or network communication errors.

[JimGant]

Welcome home, Chaimai.

I am back in Thailand next week, I may try simultaneous over the counter withdrawals, at Kasikorn, with VISA debit card and CIRRUS Cash Card (all without the aid of a safety net smile.gif)

[jfchandler]

Someone complained the other day about believing UOB ATMs (continuing to charge NO 150 baht ATM fee) were giving reduced exchange rates... Based on my experience yesterday (Tuesday, June 23), I would say that's not the case.

I did back-to-back withdrawals at about 11:20 am yesterday/Tuesday using an E*Trade U.S. Visa debit card -- same amounts pulled from a UOB ATM (no fee) and then a minute later a BKK Bank ATM (150 baht fee, which was immediately reimbursed by E*Trade in the amount of $4.39).

Got the exact same net exchange rate on both transactions: 34.13 baht to the dollar.

For comparison purposes, the BOT web site says the average Interbank Exchange Rate for Monday, June 22 (their latest posted as of this morning) was 34.14, and the X-Rates web site rate for yesterday (Tuesday) was 34.1551.

If someone is getting a low exchange rate with their ATM card (apart from the 150 baht fee issue), it's likely based on what your home bank is doing -- not any rate juggling by the Thai banks -- except in the case of Ayudhya and their Dynamic Currency Conversion policy for $ and Euro-based MasterCards.

[thaimate]

i dont know if this has been said before ,sorry if it has ,but in Tesco on Sukhumvit south Pattaya ,at the top of the escalator near the food court there is an aeon machine ,never noticed it before as it doesnt have any markings saying who it belongs to .

handy though now i know as i usually go and use the one in tesco in north Pattaya .

anyway hope it helps.

[vagabond48]

I did back-to-back withdrawals at about 11:20 am yesterday/Tuesday using an E*Trade U.S. Visa debit card -- same amounts pulled from a UOB ATM (no fee) and then a minute later a BKK Bank ATM (150 baht fee, which was immediately reimbursed by E*Trade in the amount of $4.39).

I have an Etrade brokerage and complete savings account with 0 balance. I just called etrade to see what debit card they are offering that would fit my needs. The guy kept saying there is no international ATM refunds so I guess he doesn't know about what you have. Their website gives conflicting information about their ATM offerings.

sooooooooo,

can you tell me what type of account you have?

The reason why I am interested is because I currently have Fidelity and Schwab debit cards that reimburses all my fees (except the visa fee). But as of a year ago, except for the ATM receipt, the fee didn't post on either of my accounts as a separate transaction forcing me to call to get the fee re-imbursed.

I have avoided fees so far but I would love to find a U.S. ATM/debit card that will post the fees separately so they can automatically reimburse me.

[jfchandler]

Vagabond (and others)... you really gotta read this thread MORE CAREFULLY....

As I previously posted, E*Trade's policy on ATM fee refunds indeed DOES NOT particularly indicate that they would reimburse Thailand's 150 baht ATM fees. I believe it has language that specifically excludes "foreign currency" fees... though they don't define that... And, some other posters here previously called and/or emailed E*Trade asking whether they would reimburse the 150 baht fee...and posted here saying they were told NO...

But... indeed... at least for the moment... E*Trade IS reimbursing the 150 baht ATM fee... automatically... immediately...without any need to call or request or complain.

So.... PLEASE DON'T CALL THEM OR EMAIL THEM AND CONTINUE ASKING ABOUT IT... LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE.... DON'T RUB IT IN THEIR FACE.... JUST LET THEIR SYSTEM KEEP DOING WHAT IT'S DOING.

And to answer your other question, as their web site clearly shows, their Complete Savings account is not eligible for an ATM card. However, their Max-Rate checking account does come with an ATM card.

Likewise, as I've previously posted here, the Max-Rate checking has good and bad points. The BAD is... they have a $15 per month maintenance fee...unless you meet one of several criteria that causes them to waive it. Their web site lists the different criteria.

From memory, the different options include: doing a lot of stock trading with them, or.... maintaining a combined balance (in any or all E*Trade accounts together) of $50,000 or more.

The GOOD is... they have pretty fast ACH transfer times, you can link as many external accounts to your E*Trade account as you wish, and now... they ARE refunding the Thai banks 150 baht ATM fees....

Also as I previously posted here, I'm not planning to change my ATM habits because of this. I don't want to rely on ATM refunds from E*Trade or others. And I don't want to do business with Thai banks that charge the 150 baht fee. So I'll continue using UOB, GSB and AEON (which are the fee-free choices).

I just did the E*Trade ATM deals this week with a BKK Bank and SCB Bank ATM to test the result and report back here... because... another TV member had a friend with an E*Trade account who likewise reported they were reimbursing the 150 baht fees... So I wanted to confirm it.

PS... to answer your other question... as I ALSO previously posted here... E*Trade is reimbursing the 150 baht fee, but they are NOT showing the fee as a separate ledger item in your account. You'll get a single combined withdrawal amount listed... like 15,150 baht for a 15,000 baht withdrawal from an ATM that has the 150 baht fee. And then you'll get a second line item credit for $4.39 or so listed as an ATM fee refund.

Edited June 24, 2009 by jfchandler

[vagabond48]

Vagabond (and others)... you really gotta read this thread MORE CAREFULLY....

So.... PLEASE DON'T CALL THEM OR EMAIL THEM AND CONTINUE ASKING ABOUT IT... LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE.... DON'T RUB IT IN THEIR FACE.... JUST LET THEIR SYSTEM KEEP DOING WHAT IT'S DOING.

Also as I previously posted here, I'm not planning to change my ATM habits because of this. I don't want to rely on ATM refunds from E*Trade or others. And I don't want to do business with Thai banks that charge the 150 baht fee. So I'll continue using UOB, GSB and AEON (which are the fee-free choices).

PS... to answer your other question... as I ALSO previously posted here... E*Trade is reimbursing the 150 baht fee, but they are NOT showing the fee as a separate ledger item in your account. You'll get a single combined withdrawal amount listed... like 15,150 baht for a 15,000 baht withdrawal from an ATM that has the 150 baht fee. And then you'll get a second line item credit for $4.39 or so listed as an ATM fee refund.

Sorry JF, I understand your concern and "let sleeping dogs lie". Since I don't want to keep much money in these very low interest accounts, I wont be using Etrade at this time.

I too avoid fee charging ATM machines.

Just curious, do they list the foreign currency amount that was withdrawn? I know the 2 firms I use do not and only show 1 transaction on the online statement.

As always, thanks for your helpful information

[jfchandler]

With E*Trade, when you look at your account online, there's no mention at all of foreign currency amounts... just the location where you made the withdrawal from. Everything...withdrawals and credits....is listed only in U.S. $ amounts. Likewise, no listing or mention of exchange rates.

[SurfRider]

"E*Trade IS reimbursing the 150 baht ATM fee...without any need to call or request or complain ... PLEASE DON'T CALL THEM OR EMAIL THEM AND CONTINUE ASKING ABOUT IT... LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE.... to call to get the fee re-imbursed."

I Agree -- I've dealt with ET since 1995 when I opened my first of four accounts with them -- Their "help desk" and secured Email "response staff" sometimes leaves a bit to be desired ( sometimes it almost seems as if they received their senior-level training in Thailand - )

My guess is that the new Thai usury fee has blind-sided their system and fees are automatically being refunded because they simply have never seen anything like it anywhere in the world before, and have not yet programmed their systems to reject it.

IMHO, it's probably best to not risk upsetting the proverbial apple cart - they'll discover it on their own in due time . . .

.

[syd barrett]

The GSB ATM next to the toilets on the fourth floor of the new Pattaya Festival Centre is out-of-order today (June 24th 2009). Overuse??

Luckily the UOB ATM on 2nd Road, on the corner of Soi Honey Inn is still free to use. There are also other ATM's; GSB & another UOB on Pattaya 2nd Road just past Royal Garden going towards Pattaya Tai.

Villa Market in 'The Avenue' also has a UOB ATM in the lobby.

[Chaimai]

Welcome home, Chaimai.

I am back in Thailand next week, I may try simultaneous over the counter withdrawals, at Kasikorn, with VISA debit card and CIRRUS Cash Card (all without the aid of a safety net smile.gif)

Thanks Jim, have been back 2 days and realise now how much of my time is taken up playing with ATMs.

Still have the "Communication Error" with GSB but I am encouraged by Buckbee's response.

YES ! - today I am the proud owner of a TOTALLY free ATM card. Used my Nationwide CIRRUS cash card in an AEON ATM. No 150 charge and NO charge from Nationwide. Thought I might get hit on the rate, but the exchange rate was 55.86 which I think is pretty good for today.

I know that the CIRRUS card has a limited 'free' lifespan but I still take some satisfaction in 'beating the system'.

Only downside was the fuel cost for the 90 km round trip to Buriram (nearest AEON ATM)

Edited June 24, 2009 by Chaimai

[JimGant]

I currently have Fidelity and Schwab debit cards that reimburses all my fees (except the visa fee).

I thought we'd determined that Schwab *did* reimburse the Visa foreign transaction fee..... My memory has it as one of three good guys (in the US), along with E*Trade and Capitol One.

Maybe you need to be in one of their 'high roller' categories for this privilege(?).

[JimGant]

Chaimai, will be interested to see the results when you do a side-by-side with both your Cirrus and Visa debit cards. After accounting for the .84% Visa charge, how the two major network exchange rates compare will be interesting. Suspect they're awfully close, if not the same.

[citizen33]

I know that the CIRRUS card has a limited 'free' lifespan but I still take some satisfaction in 'beating the system'.

Hear hear! I think that is the answer to those who say we are all spending too much time on this.

[jfchandler]

I'm getting the same rates on my Schwab Visa debit as I am on my E*Trade Visa debit, as best as I can tell. In both cases, better than buying TT and usually close to the posted IER rates... No indication in either case that the bank is passing along VISA's 1% fee. And I'm not any kind of high roller with Schwab...

Just to clarify...when you talk below about "reimbursing"... For both Schwab and E*Trade when withdrawing funds or making debit card POS purchases, there are no add-on charges, no second line items -- either from those banks for any kind of foreign currency fee (which they don't do) or any kind of 1% fee from VISA (which never gets charged separately anyway).

I currently have Fidelity and Schwab debit cards that reimburses all my fees (except the visa fee).

I thought we'd determined that Schwab *did* reimburse the Visa foreign transaction fee..... My memory has it as one of three good guys (in the US), along with E*Trade and Capitol One.

Maybe you need to be in one of their 'high roller' categories for this privilege(?).

[JimGant]

I'm getting the same rates on my Schwab Visa debit as I am on my E*Trade Visa debit, as best as I can tell

Hmmm. Curious why Vagabond seems to be getting the 1% Visa fee with his Schwab card..........

Vagabond, you're sure? You're not using barryofthailand's calculator, are you?

Edited June 25, 2009 by JimGant

[SurfRider]

"The GSB ATM next to the toilets on the fourth floor of the new Pattaya Festival Centre is out-of-order today (June 24th 2009). Overuse??"

The GSB ATM at TukCom IT Center on Pattaya Tai was displaying only "Invalid Amount" and "Do you want to try again?" messages a few days ago. Felt like I was playing the lottery, but none of several different amounts that I tried satisfied it enough to cough up some Baht.

It would be nice to have updates on the TukCom and other shaky Pattaya GSBs if anyone has checked them out recently.

.

[jfchandler]

Can't speak for Vagabond, but can cite my own experiences:

Case #1

Case #2

Case #3

I'm getting the same rates on my Schwab Visa debit as I am on my E*Trade Visa debit, as best as I can tell

Hmmm. Curious why Vagabond seems to be getting the 1% Visa fee with his Schwab card..........

Vagabond, you're sure? You're not using barryofthailand's calculator, are you?

[JimGant]

Just to clarify...when you talk below about "reimbursing"... For both Schwab and E*Trade when withdrawing funds or making debit card POS purchases, there are no add-on charges, no second line items -- either from those banks for any kind of foreign currency fee (which they don't do) or any kind of 1% fee from VISA (which never gets charged separately anyway).

JC, we're getting wrapped up on terminology. Visa and MC charge everyone their respective fees for using their networks (normally, 1% -- although Nationwide, until 1 July, is .84%). Most card issuers pass this on to their cardholders. But Schwab and E*Trade *eat* this charge -- as the cost of maintaining your valuable patronage (however they value this).

Vagabond, apparently, is not being reimbursed the 1%. His patronage is not valued. You, however, are a 'golden boy,' probably because of your promotion of these cards here on TV.

Seriously, why Vagabond is getting 'stiffed' is curious. Somehow Schwab views his account, and your account, differently.

[mickba]

Someone complained the other day about believing UOB ATMs (continuing to charge NO 150 baht ATM fee) were giving reduced exchange rates... Based on my experience yesterday (Tuesday, June 23), I would say that's not the case..................................................................

If someone is getting a low exchange rate with their ATM card (apart from the 150 baht fee issue), it's likely based on what your home bank is doing -- not any rate juggling by the Thai banks -- except in the case of Ayudhya and their Dynamic Currency Conversion policy for $ and Euro-based MasterCards.

Yesterday 24/06 at 20.00 UOB (Tops Pattaya Klang) gave me 55.32/£ no fee.

Any comparison re exchange rate?

[vagabond48]

I currently have Fidelity and Schwab debit cards that reimburses all my fees (except the visa fee).

I thought we'd determined that Schwab *did* reimburse the Visa foreign transaction fee..... My memory has it as one of three good guys (in the US), along with E*Trade and Capitol One.

Maybe you need to be in one of their 'high roller' categories for this privilege(?).

I thought a customer rep told me this but we know how reliable customer reps can be about accurate information including even my memory.

Even etrade includes the following in their note found at the bottom of their ATM fee refund web page:

E*TRADE Bank does impose a charge equal to 1% of the transaction amount (including credits and reversals) for non-U.S. currency transactions.

[Chaimai]

Yesterday 24/06 at 20.00 UOB (Tops Pattaya Klang) gave me 55.32/£ no fee.

Any comparison re exchange rate?

mickba,

See my post #1384

I think I got 55.865 yesterday at AEON with CIRRUS card.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Chaimai

[mickba]

Yesterday 24/06 at 20.00 UOB (Tops Pattaya Klang) gave me 55.32/£ no fee.

Any comparison re exchange rate?

mickba,

See my post #1384

I think I got 55.865 yesterday at AEON with CIRRUS card.

Make that #1394 - gotcha!

So if that's a fair comparison, then I was .54/£ down, or almost 150 baht on the 15,000 baht I drew.

Does that support the previous suggestion that UOB's exchange rate conceals a charge or not?

Edited June 25, 2009 by mickba

[Chaimai]

Yesterday 24/06 at 20.00 UOB (Tops Pattaya Klang) gave me 55.32/£ no fee.

Any comparison re exchange rate?

mickba,

See my post #1384

I think I got 55.865 yesterday at AEON with CIRRUS card.

Make that #1394 - gotcha!

So if that's a fair comparison, then I was .54/£ down, or almost 150 baht on the 15,000 baht I drew.

Does that support the previous suggestion that UOB's exchange rate conceals a charge or not?

I think (and jfchandler + JimGant are closer to this than me) that UOB have no impact on the exchange rate. The rate is influenced by your home country card issuer and the transacting agent i.e. VISA or Mastercard. HSBC are an example of a bank that always seems to apply a poor rate of exchange.

However, in this case I think you used a Nationwide VISA debit card versus my Nationwide CIRRUS (Mastercard) card. This would infer that the half Satang difference is attributable to the generosity of Mastercard ?? This is probably confirmed by my rate on my VISA debit card yesterday of 55.319 - Bingo ! - we have the answer

Edited June 25, 2009 by Chaimai

[mickba]

Yesterday 24/06 at 20.00 UOB (Tops Pattaya Klang) gave me 55.32/£ no fee.

Any comparison re exchange rate?

mickba,

See my post #1384

I think I got 55.865 yesterday at AEON with CIRRUS card.

Make that #1394 - gotcha!

So if that's a fair comparison, then I was .54/£ down, or almost 150 baht on the 15,000 baht I drew.

Does that support the previous suggestion that UOB's exchange rate conceals a charge or not?

I think (and jfchandler + JimGant are closer to this than me) that UOB have no impact on the exchange rate. The rate is influenced by your home country card issuer and the transacting agent i.e. VISA or Mastercard. HSBC are an example of a bank that always seems to apply a poor rate of exchange.

However, in this case I think you used a Nationwide VISA debit card versus my Nationwide CIRRUS (Mastercard) card. This would infer that the half Satang difference is attributable to the generosity of Mastercard ?? This is probably confirmed by my rate on my VISA debit card yesterday of 55.319 - Bingo ! - we have the answer

I made that half a baht rather than half a satang but yes, it was Visa and yes your Visa withdrawal seems to confirm what you say.

Half a baht is quite a difference though, when you consider it equates to roughly the same as this thread is about on a 15,000 withdrawal i.e. 150 baht. Also that it's Visa that has caused Nationwide to charge us 1% at the other end. Is there a double whammy there then?

[Chaimai]

I made that half a baht rather than half a satang but yes, it was Visa and yes your Visa withdrawal seems to confirm what you say.

Half a baht is quite a difference though, when you consider it equates to roughly the same as this thread is about on a 15,000 withdrawal i.e. 150 baht. Also that it's Visa that has caused Nationwide to charge us 1% at the other end. Is there a double whammy there then?

Sorry mickba, trouble with my numbers today ! Yes, half a Baht difference between VISA and CIRRUS. I have always been happy with the rate applied by VISA and it is only now that I have a CIRRUS comparison. It is VISA that have always charged Nationwide and only now are Nationwide passing that charge onto the customer.

I would be interested to see if Mastercard rates applied on USA card transactions, for example, reflects the same generosity as VISA vs CIRRUS in the UK.

[SurfRider]

"Even etrade includes the following in their note found at the bottom of their ATM fee refund web page: . . . E*TRADE Bank does impose a charge equal to 1% of the transaction amount (including credits and reversals) for non-U.S. currency transactions."

Sorry, but currently, that's simply not true -- there was a post awhile back from some WWW that tracks the arcane details of various Credit and Debit cards when used in international cash transfers -- it said that ET "reserves the right to charge 1%", but I can assure you, based on over 4 years of Thai transfers, they're not currently doing that.

I suspect this falls into the category of erroneous advice-- such as ET assuring inquirers that they DO NOT reimburse the new Thai Usury Fee, when we have several examples reported here that they currently DO reimburse! ( fingers crossed on that one )

.