Firstly, this thread is not about me or my situation as that has been done to death in another thread. I am just using my experience as an example to make my point. So please, no relationship advise

After reading this blog entry, it got me thinking.

The amount of death threats I have received from my ex is rediculous, just last night she told me on the phone if I do not send 150k baht today she will have my girlfriend and I killed. She has threatened to kill the kids etc etc etc.

If we had lived in Australia, I would have been able to get the police involved and they would have acted.

With the amount of recordings I have of her making these death threats against myself, my kids and about setting fire to the houses I am pretty sure she would be locked away in some mental health facility for her own protection and that of the community. Plus I would be a shoe-in for custody of the kids.

Normal, sane and stable people do not behave like this.

However, it seems Thailand has no system for protecting ill people and those they threaten to harm.

I have obviously left the country and due to her violence in the past do not wish to have any association with her.

However, what if I was not able to leave? What if I was a Thai man?

Would striking first be the only way to make sure harm didn't come to me and my own?

Would a person be able to rely on the Police for protection?

Would this kind of behaviour even pop up on the Police radar without some kind of paper incentive?

Just as important, are there places for people like my ex to get help? Obviously she thinks her behaviour is normal, justified and that she is doing nothing wrong, so it would take some kind of intervention.

There exists in Australia removal teams (for want of a better name) that come along in white coats to take unstable people away to a secure mental health facility for their own protection and so they might be able to get some treatment.

After 6 years associated with Thailand I never really saw much in the way of mental health facilities or practitioners. Do they exist?

Anyway, I just thought the contrast between the two countries was interesting and was wondering if any other members had anything to comment.

After 6 years associated with Thailand I never really saw much in the way of mental health facilities or practitioners. Do they exist?

Yes they do exist, there is a fairly large one in Khorat that I have taken one of my brothers-in-law to on a few occasions.

However, as far as I am aware, attendance is voluntary ....... again the situation in Thailand appears to be that unless a crime is actually committed, no one gives a toss.

be that unless a crime is actually committed, no one gives a toss.

and even then they still dont give a toss...............

Pretty similar to the situation in the Philippines, I'm afraid. The "police" there and here react to these scenarios in a very similar way, i.e. "Hey, it's just a domestic; nothing to do with us"

or, "She's just a woman. You're the man; you sort it out!"

and naturally, "Well, perhaps we could do something if, um," at this point, he holds out his hand.

How do you think a Thai would sort a situation like this out?

Surely Thai men must find themselves in situations where their partner has gone beserk too right?

Would he just leave, strike first or rely on Police 'help'?

I have known several of the ex's cousins who have lost several teeth through beatings from their Thai men, the families reactions have always been a shrug of the shoulders and a bit of an "she must have deserved it/she's no good' type of attitude even though she has just had the sh1t kicked out her.

Would that be a Thai way of dealing with an errant wife? beat her into submission?

I remember my ex telling me I am not a 'real man' after dodging knives and coffee mugs. She laughed as I guess I looked like a wimp or a girl, my gut reaction at that time was that she was expecting me to beat her and because I didn't and only disarmed her she saw me as not being a real man.

Sorry, just my random thoughts.

How do you think a Thai would sort a situation like this out?

Surely Thai men must find themselves in situations where their partner has gone beserk too right?

Would he just leave, strike first or rely on Police 'help'?

I have known several of the ex's cousins who have lost several teeth through beatings from their Thai men, the families reactions have always been a shrug of the shoulders and a bit of an "she must have deserved it/she's no good' type of attitude even though she has just had the sh1t kicked out her.

Would that be a Thai way of dealing with an errant wife? beat her into submission?

I remember my ex telling me I am not a 'real man' after dodging knives and coffee mugs. She laughed as I guess I looked like a wimp or a girl, my gut reaction at that time was that she was expecting me to beat her and because I didn't and only disarmed her she saw me as not being a real man.

Sorry, just my random thoughts.

Yeah, I think that is an acceptable attitude in many ethnic groups European, , Thai, African, middle eastrnern and Island nations, all over the world.

I personally could never considedr doing that.

When my husband beat me here in swissland the police came (phoned by our neighbours) and the police told us to sleep in different rooms, even after i pleaded with them to arrest him with blood running down my face.

Yes, in all countries in the world DOMESTIC violence does not count. Sort it out between yourselves etc. They've only just now admitted to the fact that a woman can be raped by her "loving" husband.....

Domestic violence runs both ways.

I think we've all read numerous stories of men who have had their willies chopped off by their wives, I wonder how many of these men had that kind of wife?

Police do not get involved in domestics in this country and are loathe to do it in any country. Usually because the person who has been hurt will drop the charges later on, leaving the police to deal with the hassle.

So, what do Thai men do with a wife like this? Some would beat her, sure. Some would end up with their willies chopped off. Most would leave her. I would think that any Thai person living in this country would have access enough to hire a professional (the 6 degrees of separation theory, ie my husband's cousin's brother-in-law's uncle) if they honestly felt that the woman was going to go through with it.

Is she mentally ill? most certainly. Is there anything that can be done? I have no idea. Most of the Thais I know just ignore mental health issues in the hopes that it will all get better somehow.

Yes, in all countries in the world DOMESTIC violence does not count. Sort it out between yourselves etc. They've only just now admitted to the fact that a woman can be raped by her "loving" husband.....

Is that true?

I thought I remember seeing on the news (internet) in Australia about all sorts of Gov't sponsored campaigns against domestic violence etc.

I can understand that a whole lot of it is never reported, and as you correctly say often not followed through by the complainant, perhaps a whole lot like rape.

(Sorry for your experiences Patsy).

sbk, it is a shame how most Thais sweep mental health issues under the carpet in that way. I wonder if it has anything to do with the 'face' kind of issues...admitting something is wrong with you is just not done in Asia from what I have seen.

However, in the current PC days of the West. all of us seem to be able to blame our 'issues' on our 'problems' The twinkie defence.

No comment. hasn't happened to my family, except once. And the OP wants no advice -

so, why discuss it?

Do a search on some of Simon43's threads. He has had extensive experience with the mental health system in Thailand. His, now ex (I think), has had some interesting episodes. There does not seem to be much assistance as westerners know it.

There was a longish thread some time ago about someone wanting to give help to a Thai who was going through a hard time. The long and the short of it is, there are not so many men in white coats in LOS to come and protect people from themselves.

Tuky, there IS no rule of law here- that seems to be the biggest difference to me. As previous posters pointed out, the police have this "sort it out yourselves, or make it worth our while to be involved" thing going on- and it doesn't matter what the actual law is or who's in the right or wrong. It's the person with the biggest allies who wins- at the moment.

The problem is that if the 'win' comes with a loss of face for the other party, you can bet they'll never let it go. That's why it's always best if you're going to cause a loss in this country to disguise it as something the other party can live with. Once it's come to death threats here, they usually AREN'T casual even if it's just sh*t-talk.

And if, just coincidentally and not referring to anyone specific, someone's theoretical opponent had hostages that the theoretical person cared about, they would probably have that theoretical person over a barrel until he demonstrated they would not profit ever by continuing to hold those hostages, but instead would suffer losses from their maintenance and education.

theoretically, that is IJWT?

IJWT, theoretically well said

Have a look at what happened in KS Road the other day. 3 people dead and one injured.

The guy killed his wife and his own son because he could not make her come home.

Then the Viet guy who threw his kids off a bridge in the US.

The Chinese guy who killed his wife in NZ and then dumped his daughter at an Aust. train station.

The Australian guy who threw his 4 year old daughter off a bridge after a custody battle with his ex.

I guess it is not just Thailand then. I am confused by it all, but find myself wanting to find out the reasons why people are like this.

What a terrible waste of young innocent lives.

I do not know and will never understand why people would want to harm or hurt those close to them, but it happens.

It has happened to me and has happened to friends of mine.

Lately in the English news is the story of the guy who killed Baby P and is now accused of raping a two year old.

I cried - who are these people who do this and that and get away with it.

There are some real sickos out there - but at least some of us have had an uprbringing of what is right and wrong.

I do not know and will never understand why people would want to harm or hurt those close to them, but it happens.

It has happened to me and has happened to friends of mine.

Lately in the English news is the story of the guy who killed Baby P and is now accused of raping a two year old.

I cried - who are these people who do this and that and get away with it.

There are some real sickos out there - but at least some of us have had an upbringing of what is right and wrong.

speak for yourself!

Yes, in all countries in the world DOMESTIC violence does not count. Sort it out between yourselves etc. They've only just now admitted to the fact that a woman can be raped by her "loving" husband.....

Is that true?

I thought I remember seeing on the news (internet) in Australia about all sorts of Gov't sponsored campaigns against domestic violence etc.

I can understand that a whole lot of it is never reported, and as you correctly say often not followed through by the complainant, perhaps a whole lot like rape.

(Sorry for your experiences Patsy).

sbk, it is a shame how most Thais sweep mental health issues under the carpet in that way. I wonder if it has anything to do with the 'face' kind of issues...admitting something is wrong with you is just not done in Asia from what I have seen.

However, in the current PC days of the West. all of us seem to be able to blame our 'issues' on our 'problems' The twinkie defence.

No, not true.

Where I'm from (USA) each state has it's own laws covering domestic violence.

I worked as a police officer for over 20 yrs. When I first came on the PD, domestic violence calls were at least 40% of what I responded to. Back then if neither party wanted prosecution, then we would ask nicely if one of the involved parties had a safe place to stay and we would "highly" recommend that one of them leave the reidence. No criminal report was taken.

As pointed out earlier, the problem was when the case went to court and most likely one of the involved parties would not show up, causing the judge to throw out the case.

Move ahead several years. The OJ SImpson case in Brentwood.

After the OJ case, numerous states changed the domestic violence laws. This also included who would be covered under the law. Before it was just between spouses. Now, in Arizona, it covers anyone who has lived together, including a former college roomate, gay relationships, military barracks mates, etc. Anyone who has ever lived under the same roof, including children.

The police are now required and mandated to make an arrest if there is any sign violence has occured or about to, from either party or both.

The state now will prosecute even if the victim does not want to.

The cultural problem I also had. Mexico, like Thailand does not enforce DV. When I had to deal with Mexican immigrants who would commonly beat the spouse ( "it's my culture" I was always told ) could never understand on why I was taking them to jail. "Beating your spouse is not right and you will go to jail" was what they were told. Met with a dumbfounded look.

Any call to the police for DV most likely WILL result in a arrest.

Times have changed. ( at least within the US)

I have been a cop military and civil since 1978.

In HK DV is a major issue and taken extremely seriously. It is completely wrong to say that all over the world this type of violence is ignored.

and then we get comments like this that make you realize that its only some places that have changed, and some attitudes.

A Saudi judge told a seminar on domestic violence that it was okay for a man to slap his wife for lavish spending, a report said on Sunday.

Jeddah Judge Hamad al-Razine gave the example of overspending on an abaya, the head-to-toe black shroud Saudi women have to wear in public, as justifying smacking one's wife.

"If her husband slaps her on the face as a reaction to her action, she deserves that punishment," the judge said.

I do not know and will never understand why people would want to harm or hurt those close to them, but it happens.

It has happened to me and has happened to friends of mine.

Lately in the English news is the story of the guy who killed Baby P and is now accused of raping a two year old.

I cried - who are these people who do this and that and get away with it.

There are some real sickos out there - but at least some of us have had an upbringing of what is right and wrong.

speak for yourself!

I wasn't brought up in a violent family environment. My parents never hit us, abused us etc. But I married a man who had been beaten as were his sisters. So he thought it was "normal". And i, the silly cow, thought i could change him and his attitude and hatred against all women - his mother, me, friends - we were all whores and bits of shit under his feet.

I only stayed for the three sad years of that marriage because i had nowhere else to go - no money, my friends had all given up on me etc. And no way was I going to run back to my family. until the day that i decided that i either die or i get out. But it takes time and sleuth - find an apartment, change bank account, put clothes in railway lockers, about a month. Just so he would not know that i was not coming "home" that evening after work.

And i did it. And am so much more serene and happy now. It's been 15 years and I still sometimes have nightmares. But have, learnt finally that it was not my fault.

Sunny days to you all - sorry for the rant. Good to get it off my shoulders occasionally!!

And also to be a bit selfish here.

I feel that i have lost out on quite a few years of my life over what he did to me. For a long time i couldn't trust any man who tried to get close to me.

Anyway, I am still alive and can still smile.

And he died 8 years ago in the first of april!!!

Actually, as most of the time, the right answer is given by the simple mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUslGSoEH8I

there are various mental health institutions in thailand. not as many as there are general health, but they do exist. I know of one in Surat Thani, mainly for thais, but due to proximity to Samui they have to (or had) a foreign social worker to cater to the tourists that were brought in.

there are also help available for victims of domestic violence (but less readily /not as widely)

on the issue of how prevalent, the attitude etc regarding domestic violence, I have way too much to say. it would take pages to discuss what I want to. so I better not

I am not an angel - I can argue till the cows come home, verbally.

But when i was held down and in the strangle stance - Knee jerk action came into place, to my detriment. I have photos of my face that even make me feel sick to look at. Boot kicks to my ribs.. I could go on and on about the crap that worm gave out, but i won't bore you.

Just to say, if you or anybody that you know are in a violent relationship, get out before it gets too bad.

They say that in Thailand the best thing to do is to chop off the penis, In my eyes that is the ultimate and the most horrific thing. To get to the point in all the anger and sadness and violence to have to do that. No way.

So, anyone visiting Switzerland this summer - Don't worry!! The machete stays in the closet!!!

I wasn't brought up in a violent family environment. My parents never hit us, abused us etc. But I married a man who had been beaten as were his sisters. So he thought it was "normal". And i, the silly cow, thought i could change him and his attitude and hatred against all women - his mother, me, friends - we were all whores and bits of shit under his feet.

I only stayed for the three sad years of that marriage because i had nowhere else to go - no money, my friends had all given up on me etc. And no way was I going to run back to my family. until the day that i decided that i either die or i get out. But it takes time and sleuth - find an apartment, change bank account, put clothes in railway lockers, about a month. Just so he would not know that i was not coming "home" that evening after work.

And i did it. And am so much more serene and happy now. It's been 15 years and I still sometimes have nightmares. But have, learnt finally that it was not my fault.

Sunny days to you all - sorry for the rant. Good to get it off my shoulders occasionally!!

I was brought up in an abusive family environment including physical violence. But, i grew up knowing it was not normal and vowing never to be violent or abusive or be in a violent or abusive relationship. My brother is the same as me and is also a non-violent gentle father. I also cut off all contact with those who hurt us (including my parents) many many years ago. Im not sure what makes some perpetuate the violence of their upbringing and others not...but its not always the case that an abusive childhood develops an abusive adult. This general belief may also be why some 'normal' adults are scared to talk about abuse in their childhoods, concerned about being labelled that they will likely become an abuser. Sure, the numbers show that many abusers were in fact abused themselves, but im not sure if i agree that its the norm. But...to be honest, i dont know the statistics on that.

What gets to me tho is that we lived in a small-ish community. My mother kept moving around within it. My brother and I went to several different primary schools and had many days off (when the bruises accidently popped up somewhere that could be noticed..or on a gym day.. or when my body just plain hurt too much). I pretty dam_n sure it was obvious to so many around that we were two kids having a hard time at home. But, the community and other family members thought it far better to just turn a blind eye. So long as we were programmed to say the right things when occasionally asked "I fell off ..into..blah blah", it was good enough. Actually, maybe thats why my mother kept moving around, when it started to look like people couldnt keep turning a blind eye. I think people just dont want to know the truth, if its messy. I dont know if childhoods are better now, but this wasnt soooo long ago, as im 36. It was before the childline days anyway, that at least is a godsend to kids. Well, so long as they are aware of it. I hope schools, kids clubs, etc, promote it and help make kids aware of what they shouldnt be subjected to. (Edit: my point being that it isnt just Thailand that this kind of thing can happen. Turning a blind eye..)

Hope you find a way out of that Tuky.

..and Patsy, I too am very sorry for your experience. Very glad you are no longer in that environment.

Shit Eek, sorry to hear that was how you had to live as a child, no kid should have to put up with any kind of abuse. I tell my son off & he gets the odd slap on his hand if he is being really naughty or doing something dangerous & no isn't enough but I couldn't imagine getting so out of control as to be violent towards him (and trust me, even at 2 he knows how to push the buttons). Some people (men & women) are just wired wrong. They must be as why else would they think it is ok to do that to kids??? Your story brought tears to my eyes.

That you & your brother have turned out so well is testiment to your survivor spirit & clearly the support you gave each other. My mum grew up with abuse (from step father (s)) and indifference from her mother & she is like some kind of militant where me & my sister (and now the grandkids) are concerned, even to this day as grown women I know if someone hurt or did somethign to any of us my mum would do whatever it took to get them & screw the consequences. No questions. She never wanted us to feel the shame she did as a child & we never did. I only wish every child could have had a mum like that & it breaks my heart to know that many didn't.

My brother said something a few years ago that stuck with me, that when it comes to being a dad, he may not know what is always the right thing to do, but he sure as hel_l knows what not to do! Sounds like your mum has that one sussed out too, which is probably what made/makes her a great mother and grandmother.

Edit: wish to add also, that the way she was with you as a child I imagine had a positive knock on effect on how you are as a mother now. Im probably biased, but i think my niece and nephew are fantastic. Open and loving and kind, due, i believe, to the nurturing environment they have been brought up in. Sure they can be naughty. Its actually great that they can express themselves in different ways without fear. Being naughty and pushing buttons should be part of growing up.

Boy, was I nawty.

Remembered all my travails and used them in bringing up my tribe.

Nuthin' beats experience.

After all we have gone through - Aren't we great people? Stronger?

After all we have gone through - Aren't we great people? Stronger?

Betcha life Patsy.

We were even allowed to get dirty.

Climb trees....... etc........ etc