http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=arlcL6yx16N4

Father Wants Public Caning for Malay Woman Over Beer

No doubt you all expected me to rant away. But NO!

What a great statement

“Accepting the fact that the consumption of alcohol is prohibited” in Islam, “the best approach is to counsel,” said Chandra. If he or she persists, “it’s between the person and God.”

The problem with religion is not the debate over whether there is a god and whose god is best. The problem is the fanatical <deleted> who take it upon themselves to interpret the written "by the hand of man" rules and take it upon themselves to dish out the punishment.

Wasn't it Oliver Reed who, when told by South African police in the bad old days that if he had sex with a black woman he would be whipped, asked if he could have them both at the same time?

In South Africa, in 1969, on my 21st birthday, I broke one of the strictest rules of apartheid.

It scared the hel_l out of me for a number of reasons.

The problem with religion is not the debate over whether there is a god and whose god is best. The problem is the fanatical <deleted> who take it upon themselves to interpret the written "by the hand of man" rules and take it upon themselves to dish out the punishment.

The punishment for sodomy between males in Iran is death, however, lesbians just get flogged ......... now isn't that rampant feminism gone mad.

The problem with religion is not the debate over whether there is a god and whose god is best. The problem is the fanatical <deleted> who take it upon themselves to interpret the written "by the hand of man" rules and take it upon themselves to dish out the punishment.

The punishment for sodomy between males in Iran is death, however, lesbians just get flogged ......... now isn't that rampant feminism gone mad.

Sounds like law Max Mosely would come up with.

In South Africa, in 1969, on my 21st birthday, I broke one of the strictest rules of apartheid.

It scared the hel_l out of me for a number of reasons.

Now you understand that this isn't prurient curiosity but ........

Do tell !!!!! Do tell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The punishment for sodomy between males in Iran is death, however, lesbians just get flogged ......... now isn't that rampant feminism gone mad.

I'd like to buy a few, Thad

How much? and do they do 2 for the price of one??

Dave

BOGOF?

BOGOF?

In respect of lesbians, what's the point, neither will be interested in anything outside their own circle.

I have no problem with religion. I do however have a problem with the way it's used to subjugate women. What kind of weak men need God on their side to stand up to a woman?

I have no problem with religion. I do however have a problem with the way it's used to subjugate women.

I agree with the former, but

What kind of weak men need God on their side to stand up to a woman?

You obviously never met my ex wife.

CB

The problem with religion is not the debate over whether there is a god and whose god is best. The problem is the fanatical <deleted> who take it upon themselves to interpret the written "by the hand of man" rules and take it upon themselves to dish out the punishment.

that's besides the point. what counts is Malaysia's law concerning muslims drinking alcohol. the law is the law, like it or not. it is none of our fàcking business to criticise the laws of any country of which we are not citizens and have no voting rights. moreover, it is none of our fàcking business to criticise any religion no matter what (in our views) ridiculous commandments or teachings exist.

I live in a free country. It's my right to criticize what I choose to.

The problem with religion is not the debate over whether there is a god and whose god is best. The problem is the fanatical <deleted> who take it upon themselves to interpret the written "by the hand of man" rules and take it upon themselves to dish out the punishment.

that's besides the point. what counts is Malaysia's law concerning muslims drinking alcohol. the law is the law, like it or not. it is none of our fàcking business to criticise the laws of any country of which we are not citizens and have no voting rights. moreover, it is none of our fàcking business to criticise any religion no matter what (in our views) ridiculous commandments or teachings exist.

So, your standpoint is it's perfectly Ok for any sect in any country to do anything they feel like as long as it doesn't break their rules, no matter how morally wrong it is ....... glad your not my Dad.

I live in a free country. It's my right to criticize what I choose to.

Yep. And I would think quite a few in Malaysia would like to criticize, if they had the freedom to do so.

If these types of laws are made to punish an act that is against a certain religion, then it should be up to your "maker" to decide your punishment, not humans. They obviously have no faith that the religious teachings in themselves, are sufficient enough to deter "sinners" and as such, pressure the lawmakers to support them.

Alcohol is a drug in the simplest sense of the definition the same as heroin, amphetamines, cocaine, etc. Some societies ban heroin, some ban alcohol. If westerners by and large accept the punishment of those involved with banned drugs in their countries then there is no argument for westerners to interfere or condemn other societies who punish people for involvement with drugs banned in their respective countries.

One size does not fit all people. Those here who have expressed criticism are demonstrating their irrationality and illogical thought process.

Good point well made sibey.

Alcohol is a drug in the simplest sense of the definition the same as heroin, amphetamines, cocaine, etc. Some societies ban heroin, some ban alcohol. If westerners by and large accept the punishment of those involved with banned drugs in their countries then there is no argument for westerners to interfere or condemn other societies who punish people for involvement with drugs banned in their respective countries.

But alcohol isn't banned in Malaysia, it is only banned for Muslims. So it isn't the law of the land but a law that just applies to one religion and not for the rest. So hardly a good analogy.

I live in Saudi and it is banned for ALL, I don't like it but at least it is fair and across the board. And to think that it doesn't go on, in both Muslim and non muslims would be naive to say the least. I got a good recipe for Date Wine last week from someone

One size does not fit all people. Those here who have expressed criticism are demonstrating their irrationality and illogical thought process.

Absolutely, one size does not fit all and that's why we can debate the rights and wrongs of it. For you to suggest that if we do discuss it, nay criticize it, is being "irrational and illogical" to me says that it is you who is being just that.

You hear many stories like this one but there was one where a young girl of 15 (i think) who got flogged for running away. Why did she run away? Because she didn't want to marry a man of 60ish. Should we also not criticize that?

Good point well made sibey.

No Tiggs, I think it was a bad point, even more badly made. I would go as far to say that it was on a par with those who make the comments "if you don't like it, leave Thailand" brigade. Not very well thought out at all.

Should I also not bring up that I don't ever recollect hearing of a man being flogged for the same reason.

Should I also not bring up that I don't ever recollect hearing of a man being flogged for the same reason.

No, no Thaddy. Don't bring it up, it could be construed that you are being irrational and illogical

One size does not fit all people. Those here who have expressed criticism are demonstrating their irrationality and illogical thought process.

If that's a good point, society is in for more trouble in the years to come.

What is irrational about all persons being equal before the law regardless of their religion? In this case the woman is not allowed to choose her religion so you cannot even say she should expect it as a Muslim. She cannot, due to being born Muslim, drink alcohol without the threat of a whipping. Her neighbours who are free to choose to be Hindu, Christian, or Buddhist (providing they weren't born Muslim because it's illegal to convert away from Islam in Malaysia) can drink to their heart's content.

The thought that human beings should be denied equal rights because of what they were born as is the same backward kind of thinking that led to segregation of races in the US, apartheid in South Africa, and that isn't only illogical, it's abhorrent.

I didn't realise it wasn't a 'universal' ban!

The thought that human beings should be denied equal rights because of what they were born as is the same backward kind of thinking that led to segregation of races in the US, apartheid in South Africa, and that isn't only illogical, it's abhorrent.

Well said Vic.

The problem with religion is not the debate over whether there is a god and whose god is best. The problem is the fanatical <deleted> who take it upon themselves to interpret the written "by the hand of man" rules and take it upon themselves to dish out the punishment.

that's besides the point. what counts is Malaysia's law concerning muslims drinking alcohol. the law is the law, like it or not. it is none of our fàcking business to criticise the laws of any country of which we are not citizens and have no voting rights. moreover, it is none of our fàcking business to criticise any religion no matter what (in our views) ridiculous commandments or teachings exist.

So, your standpoint is it's perfectly Ok for any sect in any country to do anything they feel like as long as it doesn't break their rules, no matter how morally wrong it is ....... glad your not my Dad.

i think it is neither perfectly OK nor do i think it is simply OK. in fact i think these kind of laws are archaic and ridiculous and do not belong in our times. what i said is that we have no right to criticise the laws of other countries. nothing more, nothing less.

The problem with religion is not the debate over whether there is a god and whose god is best. The problem is the fanatical <deleted> who take it upon themselves to interpret the written "by the hand of man" rules and take it upon themselves to dish out the punishment.

that's besides the point. what counts is Malaysia's law concerning muslims drinking alcohol. the law is the law, like it or not. it is none of our fàcking business to criticise the laws of any country of which we are not citizens and have no voting rights. moreover, it is none of our fàcking business to criticise any religion no matter what (in our views) ridiculous commandments or teachings exist.

So, your standpoint is it's perfectly Ok for any sect in any country to do anything they feel like as long as it doesn't break their rules, no matter how morally wrong it is ....... glad your not my Dad.

i think it is neither perfectly OK nor do i think it is simply OK. in fact i think these kind of laws are archaic and ridiculous and do not belong in our times. what i said is that we have no right to criticise the laws of other countries. nothing more, nothing less.

And you are quite happy to just sit back and let it happen, say nothing, do nothing, but criticise those that do say something, yes?

And you are quite happy to just sit back and let it happen, say nothing, do nothing, but criticise those that do say something, yes?

So because I'm in Canada right now, he has no right to criticize open criticisms of what I see as an injustice, because that's one of the things we do here.

I think we think the same Vic, of course he has the right to criticise you, and myself, but we don't have the right to criticise anything...... isn't that how atrocities start?

And you are quite happy to just sit back and let it happen, say nothing, do nothing, but criticise those that do say something, yes?

my answer is a clear YES! because because all the criticising is the equivalent of my dogs barking in protest when they hear thunder. the result is nil. besides, i have not really criticised anybody but aired my personal views which might or might not be considered as criticism. and, like it or not, i will do so in future.

p.s. i am not happy with what is going on in various countries. but i am a realist and sit back because there is nothing i can do to prevent something happening. globally much more important things are happening about which we can bitch. the case of a stupid female who broke a law and will NOT be punishes for it (as some here insinuate who have no idea) is not really worth to waste time. in my view the bitching here is not because of the threat of her caning but to indirectly make derogatory remarks about one of the major religions on this planet.

try to make similar remarks about Buddhism in Thaivisa and watch what will happen!

Can I direct you to one of the sayings in Moss's tag line........

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke