Backpacker Murders: Father Pleads For Justice

[Zoltan]

I find this story very very disturbing, why can't justice be served

for once. People in high places do seem to literally get away with murder.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree .. If OJ Simson can get away with it I beleieve this guy can also.

[Johpa]

There are always exceptions (as I noted above), but I have never seen such lazy and desinterested police officers like in Thailand. Thiefes and other criminals of all sort must have a VERY good life in Thailand. Just know the system and you can be 100% sure no one will ever (even try to) catch you.

I won't go so far to suppose that there are strong connections between organized criminality and the police in Thailand - but sometimes, at least, the idea comes up to the mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are circumstances where one can lodge a complaint with the police and there are circumstances where one needs to hire a policeman. It is a dicey game and most ex-pats need not apply unless you really understand Thai society. In the US the legal system is very complex and requires the hiring of a lawyer. In Thailand seeking justice is just as complex but the cast of needed characters is not so easily identifiable.

If you don't have access to a personal phuu yai you are powerless. If you are asking yourself what the heck is this guy talking about then may I suggest you read Niels Muldar's book "Everyday Life in Thailand" which has long been a bible for many of us. Don't worry about the theoretical chapters aimed at the academics.

And remember, you can never have enough friends in Thailand who are policemen or, to a lesser extent, government bureaucrats. But when you are drinking with Thai police you had better know when to leave the table.

This Thai policeman might be found guilty and put in jail for a few months to save face for the national government. But when all has quieted down and been forgotten he will be released as he seems to have powerful phuu yais , perhaps even Chawalit, the biggest phuu yai along the border. It would be interesting to know if the insignificant farmer who took the blame for the Shinawat family over the murder of the school head out in Sankampeng actually spent much time in prison.

[britmaveric]

Justice will be had if you are willing to pay the price. I know what I would do if a murderer of my family got off!

[Khun Larry]

There are always exceptions (as I noted above), but I have never seen such lazy and desinterested police officers like in Thailand. Thiefes and other criminals of all sort must have a VERY good life in Thailand. Just know the system and you can be 100% sure no one will ever (even try to) catch you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After a while you begin to realize this is the real Thailand. These are the real Thais people speak of.

I won't go so far to suppose that there are strong connections between organized criminality and the police in Thailand - but sometimes, at least, the idea comes up to the mind.

They are one in the same.

After these and a few other experiences that go in similar extents, I ask myself why someone could dream of settling here. I had such plans before but it seems to me that the better I learn to know this country, the more disappointed I am.

Just my 2 cents, of course, being quite disillusioned of this former 'Land of sunshine and smiles'

People settle in Thailand for the cheap available girls along with the warm weather, cheap eats and dirty beaches.

[Foggy Bottom]

Reading all the replies on here, I cannot but wonder how many of the outraged have bothered to publicise what is going on by a bit of copying and pasting the articles and forum links onto forums in their home countries?

With the Internet, we are not voiceless, and a great many foreign-based journalists do take time to read gossip boards and the like. The more that the foreign press reports this, the more the overseas Thai embassies and consulates will report it back to this Kingdom that the world is alarmed, and the more chance that if convicted, the accused will receive the declared sentence.

Not saying it's a certainty, but every little bit of exposure pushes it in that direction.

Edited March 25, 2005 by Gaz Chiangmai

[Khun Larry]

. 

If you don't have access to a personal  phuu yai you are powerless.  If you are asking yourself what the heck is this guy talking about then may I suggest you read Niels Muldar's book "Everyday Life in Thailand" which has long been a bible for many of us.  Don't worry about the theoretical chapters aimed at the academics.

And remember, you can never have enough friends in Thailand who are policemen or, to a lesser extent, government bureaucrats.  But when you are drinking with Thai police you had better know when to leave the table.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting sh*t

[Nam Kao]

If the outcome looks grim Somchai will certainly disappear again before the end

of the trial.

Remember this guy is still walking the sois

[Teach]

"friends in high places"

opium dens?

An inquiring mind might wonder where a cop making about 20,000B/mo gets the money for a Volvo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He owns a restaraunt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The answer to that is quite simple. A policemans starting salary is Bt. 4000pm in itself not too encouraging a recruitment drive. So why do so many join the force.

It is the training ground for professional corruption and 'school tie' furtherment. An officer is encouraged both to pursue other forms of financial gain as well as maintain the status quo to which he is inducted. You only have to look at how many members of parliament hold or used to hold a high ranking security office, be it military or police. None in there present role would condem the continuing practice to which the 'Bill' get up to, save tarnishing their own now polished image.

This situation will take a revolution the likes of which has never been seen in this country to change things significantly, but while we wait for that for another 100 years or so. Why don't we start with certain reforms ( most of which are in place but no-one will take them to task) like

1. Off duty filth carrying arms

2. On duty, entering establishments armed

3. Frequenting business premises for 'non-official' reasons whilst in uniform and armed. Bars and restuarants etc.

4. Entering any premises without constitutional sanction armed or otherwise for the purpose of shakedown.

5. A safe hotline where corrupt cops can be grassed up, much the same as they have in place for grassing up a family member for trinket reward.

6. The policy of promotion through 'purchase'.

Regarding the last one for those who are not aware. An ambitious officer who whishes to advance but carries little sponsorship weight from the powers above can buy his promotion, thus allowing the most corrupt of official minds into the higher echelons of power.

You will notice when a high ranking cop is about to buy his way up the ladder when the latest local traffic purge starts in your area. You khow the type I mean -getting stopped 3 times a day for the most bull...t of reasons.

Get rid of bent cops and you halve crime overnight. Get rid of bent politicians and you get, well no society has pulled that one off yet...we live in hope.

Teach

[cobra]

Just think for a second if - IF the backpacker had of realised the situation, kept his cool and shown a little respect to someone with a gun -

these truly bizarre events may not have happened and the young obviously educated woman would still be alive

I sincerely hope they get some closure on this

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right,

Keeping things in perspective: By all accounts, this is a rare event, corruption aside, tourist don't get shot by Thai Police everyday. This unfortunate event I believe probably could had been diffused at many points, but got wildly out of control.

From what has been reported, all three had been interacting for day(s) prior to the shootings, (alleged affair, improper advance(s), partying, drugs/alcohol, and the alleged public beating of the cop ...), any combination was a recipe for disaster.

Regardless, no one deserved to die. Considering the seriousness, public loss of face even in Thai culture will probably not save this cop. He'll certainly get some prison time but I'll be surprised if they execute him.

[jonnyboy]

Teach, your spot on!!!!.....we can only dream for as the thais would say if you don't like it get out!!!!

[billyevo]

Recently after having had a wonderful evening with our ladies a good friend of mine woke in the morning to find that "his lady" had considered that the 1500 baht donation he made was indeed to small for her liking and helped herself to 12,000 baht more from his wallet which was hiding behind the TV unit, a unit some 6 feet long.

She had observed my friend the night before placing his wallet in the most secure place in his room or so he thought. The unit needed to be lifted away from the wall to recover the wallet and then returned no mean task for a lady of 45 kgs.

When the theft was discovered the first course of action was to decide was it worth reporting the incident to the police or chalk it up to "Well Thailand wins again".

With that British stiff upper lip approach my friend and I marched into the local tourist police office to make our complaint. we were greated with a smile by a middle aged policeman who spoke very good english we were offered a seat and within 30 seconds a cold glass of water.

With our tale explained and a nod of disgust at what had happened he asked that we write in english a report detailing the incident. This duly completed it was passed to a Thai lady who without falter translated the report in to Thai.

The report was logged and a copy stamped was given to us to take to the main Police Station where the crime would be investigated. On our arrivial at the main Police Station in Soi 8 the front office resembled rush hour at the tube station in Oxford Street. We approached what we thought was the main desk only to be told to report over there.........excuse me can you please help me i wish to report a theft as I handed over the report written in Thai to the desk officer.

Having decided to attend the Police Staion we had taken the time to dress in a respectful mannor,shaved and polished our shoes. We stood in front of him waiting for him to decide what to do next. without speaking looked us up and down and number of times then rose and went to the next room and signalled us to follow were the report was given to an Inspector.

We stood until invited to sit and again in perfect english we were able to discuss the events of last evening and the discovery in the morning at great length.The lady in question had left her mobile telephone number with my friend and I had also taken a photo of her with my camera phone. The inspector called the number and spoke to her about the theft to which she plainly knew nothing about, however she was told to appear at the police station the following day where she would be spoken to about the theft.

We thanked the officer for his help and would see him in the morning we left feeling is this all worth it.

12 noon we were back in the Police Station face to face with the lady in question who had arrived mob handed with family and friends all wishing to have their say about how good this lady was and she could never do such a bad thing to such a kind falang. This was Thailand at its best there were letters being handed round documents being passed here and there non stop chat from the "defence team" while my friend and i looked on.

Enough was enough 1 hour had passed action now was needed and I requested a private chat with the Inspector. We knew that she was guilty no other was involved she took the money and we needed to prove it so it was time to let Scotland Yard take over.

I asked that we call her bluff and let her convict herself. This was a new approach the Inspector commented how can we do this. Please have her taken and photographed then take her finger prints we will produce my friends wallet in an exibits plastic bag and then tell her your going to dust the wallet for her finger prints.

Now 2 hours later after having a delightfull lunch in the Police Station the inspector

calls us back to his office where he has good news. "Having seen the wallet on his desk in the exibits bag and the being told that the wallet is going to be dusted for her prints she wants to make an offer of 5000 baht to close the matter and make it easy for all concerned" he said. His next comment was quite astounding "if she willing to pay you 5000 then she's going to pay you 12000 or she's off to the monkey house right now ".

9,10,11,12,000 baht counted out infront of us my friend signed her release and she was told to go from the Police Station a very lucky lady that we did not press that she go before the local court and detained in the monkey house, still protesting that she did not do it but refusing to have the wallet dusted.

We sat drinking ice coffee paid for by the Police exchanged telephone numbers and made a donation of 1000 baht to the inspectors charity of his choice we left the Police Station struggling to get out of the front office with a satisfaction of a job well done.

Remember: The land of smiles will smile back if your smiling and growl at you if your growling.

[Simbo]

From the press release, it looks like justice may well be done.  The defendants downcast head and the telling forensic evidence may well get the job done.

The father's "testimony" certainly wouldn't be heard at this stage of the proceedings in any western court and speaks well for the courts empathy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately all "hear-say" and ub-susubstantiated on the part of the poor distressed father. Something one would expect the prosecution to use in 'summing-up'. He has no bearing on the case whatsoever and his statement could hardly carry any 'weight' in the trial. The article mentioned that Forensic evidence WAS yet to be produced, and of course accepted and of course proven . Once again mere speculation on the part of the court reporter one would think. You guys shouldn't jump the gun so quick when it comes down to these events. I read no 'follow-up' artilcles on any topic of sensational value discussed in this forum. You all seem to have your own mind-set and each and everyone of you says the same type of thing each time. Perhaps a 'follow-up' column would help us think and react more positively in the future and maybe some of the authorities would give more credence and credibility to us "Ex-pat Watch-dogs". What you think people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are criticising people for not giving the Thai justice system a chance.

The man was granted bail, while on a double murder charge and after having ran away. He is still free and running a business, which is against police regulations for a high ranking officer. I can't blame anyone for not having faith in the courts here. You say, give them a chance. I say, the louder we shout, the better.

[DavidUK21]

Just keep this case in the limelight, in particular in the UK, and I think justice will be done. There are obviously people in Thailand who are hoping if they can delay things long enough, it will be forgotten about. It will help if you keep reminding the press in both the UK and Thailand that this case is still on-going.

[snoophound]

Very good idea.

The media can exert a deal of pressure if you can find a set of advocate journos in the uk.

Just keep this case in the limelight, in particular in the UK, and I think justice will be done.  There are obviously people in Thailand who are hoping if they can delay things long enough, it will be forgotten about.  It will help if you keep reminding the press in both the UK and Thailand that this case is still on-going.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[john b good]

When told that a relative and her fiance were going to visit Thailand I put them straight about the place.

Don't ever trust a smiling Thai (and they all smile don't they)

Don't ever get involved in something (an offer) that sounds too good to be true, because it will be (i.e. too good to be true)

Don't ever get too friendly or close to a Thai or Thais as in the majority of cases they are only out to separate you if at all possible from your folding stuff.

The friendliness of Thailand is a myth.

A Thai would not tell the truth if his (her) life depended on it.

Deceit has been ingrained in the from early childhood.

And so on infinititum....................................................

[DavidUK21]

When told that a relative and her fiance were going to visit Thailand I put them straight about the place.

Don't ever trust a smiling Thai (and they all smile don't they)

Don't ever get involved in something (an offer) that sounds too good to be true, because it will be (i.e. too good to be true)

Don't ever get too friendly or close to a Thai or Thais as in the majority of cases they are only out to separate you if at all possible from your folding stuff.

The friendliness of Thailand is a myth.

A Thai would not tell the truth if his (her) life depended on it.

Deceit has been ingrained in the from early childhood.

And so on infinititum....................................................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

very true, but dont mess with a brit

Edited March 25, 2005 by DavidUK21

[mraloha]

i also find this story very disturbing and very very tragic.

i think that the high profile nature of this crime will make it imperative for the justice system to act

i would ask the question...what kind of social climate is this, where people are afraid of the police?. it is as though the police force in the south is more like a mafia family than a protector of society.

i find the recent lack of interest and commitment to the yearly speech by His Majesty the King to parliament (urging them to take a more humanitarian approach), evidence that reform is not in the offing and that self centered corruption is the rule of the day, as western consumerism consumes Thailand.

perhaps such a climate breeds rouge cops.

[lannachiangrai]

john b good or john b jaded?

if you are living in thailand with that attitude, you've successfully created your own ######, congratulations!

"Don't ever trust a smiling Thai (and they all smile don't they)

Don't ever get involved in something (an offer) that sounds too good to be true, because it will be (i.e. too good to be true)

Don't ever get too friendly or close to a Thai or Thais as in the majority of cases they are only out to separate you if at all possible from your folding stuff.

The friendliness of Thailand is a myth."

[mjcl]

Seems to me that if there is any real problem involving the law in Thailand, if it is kept quiet, then there is a chance of it being brushed under the carpet. Once it is made public, and gets a lot of press, then the Thai system has to be seen to be doing something.

I think, in this case, that Somchai is on a road to nowhere.

[dog]

Justice will be had if you are willing to pay the price. I know what I would do if a murderer of my family got off!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's serious "talk" but i totally agree,justice should be done one way or another.

Especially for the loved ones',it's unfortunate that "what will be will be"

[john b good]

john b good or john b jaded?

if you are living in thailand with that attitude, you've successfully created your own ######, congratulations!

"Don't ever trust a smiling Thai (and they all smile don't they)

Don't ever get involved in something (an offer) that sounds too good to be true, because it will be (i.e. too good to be true)

Don't ever get too friendly or close to a Thai or Thais as in the majority of cases they are only out to separate you if at all possible from your folding stuff.

The friendliness of Thailand is a myth."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do spend quite a bit of time in Thailand AND I have said it as I have seen it.

"jaded" could be apt at times though

Edited March 26, 2005 by john b good

[meemiathai]

john b good or john b jaded?

if you are living in thailand with that attitude, you've successfully created your own ######, congratulations!

"Don't ever trust a smiling Thai (and they all smile don't they)

Don't ever get involved in something (an offer) that sounds too good to be true, because it will be (i.e. too good to be true)

Don't ever get too friendly or close to a Thai or Thais as in the majority of cases they are only out to separate you if at all possible from your folding stuff.

The friendliness of Thailand is a myth."

I do spend quite a bit of time in Thailand AND I have said it as I have seen it.

"jaded" could be apt at times though

You get what you give.

[phuketsiam]

hope thats applies to somchai then

[The_Moog]

i find the recent lack of interest and commitment to the yearly speech by His Majesty the King to parliament (urging them to take a more humanitarian approach), evidence that reform is not in the offing

Interest in upholding the contents of the speech lasts about a day usually. Then everyone gets on with what they were doing before.

[Diggerbasher]

I don't have a good feeling about this trial,think it could go the way of the trial of the son of that influential ex-policeman.Loads of witnesses there and forensic but he's out and about.

[Terminator]

After 15 years or so here.....the story remains he same, nothing has changed and indeed is very unlikely to change in the unforeseen future

You just cannot change a soceity's culture and mentatlity overnight

Btw, this is the same all over Asia

[dog]

Recently after having had a wonderful evening with our ladies a good friend of mine woke in the morning to find that "his lady" had considered that the 1500 baht donation he made was indeed to small for her liking and helped herself to 12,000 baht more from his wallet which was hiding behind the TV unit, a unit some 6 feet long.

She had observed my friend the night before placing his wallet in the most secure place in his room or so he thought. The unit needed to be lifted away from the wall to recover the wallet and then returned no mean task for a lady of 45 kgs.

When the theft was discovered the first course of action was to decide was it worth reporting the incident to the police or chalk it up to "Well Thailand wins again".

With that British stiff upper lip approach my friend and I marched into the local tourist police office to make our complaint. we were greated with a smile by a middle aged policeman who spoke very good english we were offered a seat and within 30 seconds a cold glass of water.

With our tale explained and a nod of disgust at what had happened he asked that we write in english a report detailing the incident. This duly completed it was passed to a Thai lady who without falter translated the report in to Thai.

The report was logged and a copy stamped was given to us to take to the main Police Station where the crime would be investigated. On our arrivial at the main Police Station in Soi 8 the front office resembled rush hour at the tube station in Oxford Street. We approached what we thought was the main desk only to be told to report over there.........excuse me can you please help me i wish to report a theft as I handed over the report written in Thai to the desk officer.

Having decided to attend the Police Staion we had taken the time to dress in a respectful mannor,shaved and polished our shoes. We stood  in front of him waiting for him to decide what to do next. without speaking looked us up and down and number of times then rose and went to the next room and signalled us to follow were the report was given to an Inspector.

We stood until invited to sit and again in perfect english we were able to discuss the events of last evening and the discovery in the morning at great length.The lady in question had left her mobile telephone number with my friend and I had also taken a photo of her with my camera phone. The inspector called the number and spoke to her about the theft to which she plainly knew nothing about, however she was told to appear at the police station the following day where she would be spoken to about the theft.

We thanked the officer for his help and would see him in the morning we left feeling is this all worth it.

12 noon we were back in the Police Station face to face with the lady in question who had arrived mob handed with family and friends all wishing to have their say about how good this lady was and she could never do such a bad thing to such a kind falang. This was Thailand at its best there were letters being handed round documents being passed here and there non stop chat from the "defence team" while my friend and i looked on.

Enough was enough 1 hour had passed action now was needed and I requested a private chat with the Inspector. We knew that she was guilty no other was involved she took the money and we needed to prove it so it was time to let Scotland Yard take over.

I asked that we call her bluff and let her convict herself. This was a new approach the Inspector commented how can we do this. Please have her taken and photographed then take her finger prints we will produce my friends wallet in an exibits plastic bag and then tell her your going to dust the wallet for her finger prints.

Now 2 hours later after having a delightfull lunch in the Police Station the inspector

calls us back to his office where he has good news. "Having seen the wallet on his desk in the exibits bag and the being told that the wallet is going to be dusted for her prints she wants to make an offer of 5000 baht to close the matter and make it easy for all concerned" he said. His next comment was quite astounding "if she willing to pay you 5000 then she's going to pay you 12000 or she's off to the monkey house right now ".

9,10,11,12,000 baht counted out infront of us my friend signed her release and she was told to go from the Police Station a very lucky lady that we did not press that she go before the local court and detained in the monkey house, still protesting that she did not do it but refusing to have the wallet dusted.

We sat drinking ice coffee paid for by the Police exchanged telephone numbers and made a donation of 1000 baht to the inspectors charity of his choice we left the Police Station struggling to get out of the front office with a satisfaction of a job well done.  

Remember: The land of smiles will smile back if your smiling and growl at you if your growling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good ,a fantastic little story ,superb, Edited March 26, 2005 by dog

[jgarty38]

Pepi, with the police in Thailand money talks, if there is something in it for them you would get some action.

I must say that I think the police in the UK are no longer the guardians of justice they once where. They are now a seperate society to the British public. How many cops in the uk shoot someone nowdays and seem to get away with it?

[LoneStar]

Oh boy...am I glad I decided not to move to the 'land of smiles'.

Scary stuff, I'll tell ya.

[manutoo]

9,10,11,12,000 baht counted out infront of us my friend signed her release and she was told to go from the Police Station a very lucky lady that we did not press that she go before the local court and detained in the monkey house, still protesting that she did not do it but refusing to have the wallet dusted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This crazy aptitude to deny the facts reminds me my ex-thai-gf... even if she was a "good" girl...

Anyway, nice story dude, thanks to have shared it !