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Afghanistan

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BTW, have a look back at the multiple times I was called something before I responded in kind to that dork.

As with ChuckD and yourself.....I am not the one to throw the first punch. But if it's banter you want, it's banter you'll get.

"Chuckie" doesn't quite agree with the innocent disclaimer.

Makes me no difference at this point. I have managed to survive over 70 years without the rancor that is produced by the old boys club here.

I'll shoot for another 70 by simply signing off, although I will probably still drop in every now and then to read some of this forum.

Happy New Year to all, and to all a goodnight. :)

Come now, "chuckie" is hardly name-calling, certainly not derogatory....and I apologised.

No matter.....

Happy new year to you and yours.

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Checked the website you mentioned Kohee and OK for now I cannot say there is full proof that these people died because of WP but some of them just looked odd and I have seen decomposed bodies in different stages when the war in the Balkan just ended. Maybe it is the weather there in Fallujah.

That WP has been used (on civilians) is admitted by the ex soldiers and they do admit shooting down/killing civilians, yes even children.

But I guess that is just called collateral damage as well.

I don't know if Koheesti and Chuck had a look at that Duane guy on that other docu (he starts around the 57 min. mark and goes on throughout).

My opinion is that if you have such people doing their work I can't help but thinking these have a similar mindset as those radical new born religious people extremists, very dangerous indeed and it would be better if they were locked up and the key thrown away but that I believe should be done with every religious fanatic.

He makes very clear that whatever needs to be done to protect the national interest of the US will be done so we better get used to it.

Do the two of you agree with that statement and if so could you explain why?

If you have read the book: Confessions of an economic hitman you will recognize a pattern throughout the history of US intervention up until today.

First try to negotiate, if it fails then try to assassinate or replace the regime, and if that fails send in the troops, Panama and Venezuela are good examples where in the case of Venezuela they failed but that might change if the US is able to start some kind of conflict in that region.

Anyway there is a lot more issues on my mind that can be discussed and I am looking forward doing so with all, even if you have an opposite view.

(My apologies for grammar and spelling mistakes).

:)

  • Author

Suicide bomber attacks CIA base in Afghanistan, killing at least 8 Americans

Also.....

Afghan protesters burn Obama effigy over civilian deaths

Wednesday, 30 December 2009

Jalalabad, December 30: Protesters took to the streets in Afghanistan today, burning an effigy of the US president and shouting "death to Obama" to slam civilian deaths during Western military operations.

Hundreds of university students blocked main roads in Jalalabad, capital of eastern Nangahar province, to protest the alleged deaths of 10 civilians, mostly school children, in a Western military operation on Saturday.

"The government must prevent such unilateral operations otherwise we will take guns instead of pens and fight against them (foreign forces)," students from the University of Nangahar's education faculty said in a statement.

Marching through the main street of Jalalabad, the students chanted "death to Obama" and "death to foreign forces", witnesses said.

The protesters torched a US flag and an effigy of US President Barack Obama in a public square in central Jalalabad, before dispersing.

"Our demonstration is against those foreigners who have come to our country," Safiullah Aminzai, a student organiser, said to a news agency.

"They have not brought democracy to Afghanistan but they are killing our religious scholars and children," he added.

So if they continue to ask the US...nicely & not so nicely to leave & they do not leave....If then Students take up arms to rid their country of what they deem to be invaders....Then What? Are they too then Terrorist/Targets?

I cannot help but wonder at times if a foreign country landed here in search of their enemy. Going through our streets like they owned them....with the accompanying mess & accidental/collateral deaths....What would we do? We know the answer to that one don't we?

Checked the website you mentioned Kohee and OK for now I cannot say there is full proof that these people died because of WP but some of them just looked odd and I have seen decomposed bodies in different stages when the war in the Balkan just ended. Maybe it is the weather there in Fallujah.

That WP has been used (on civilians) is admitted by the ex soldiers and they do admit shooting down/killing civilians, yes even children.

But I guess that is just called collateral damage as well.

I don't know if Koheesti and Chuck had a look at that Duane guy on that other docu (he starts around the 57 min. mark and goes on throughout).

My opinion is that if you have such people doing their work I can't help but thinking these have a similar mindset as those radical new born religious people extremists, very dangerous indeed and it would be better if they were locked up and the key thrown away but that I believe should be done with every religious fanatic.

He makes very clear that whatever needs to be done to protect the national interest of the US will be done so we better get used to it.

Do the two of you agree with that statement and if so could you explain why?

If you have read the book: Confessions of an economic hitman you will recognize a pattern throughout the history of US intervention up until today.

First try to negotiate, if it fails then try to assassinate or replace the regime, and if that fails send in the troops, Panama and Venezuela are good examples where in the case of Venezuela they failed but that might change if the US is able to start some kind of conflict in that region.

Anyway there is a lot more issues on my mind that can be discussed and I am looking forward doing so with all, even if you have an opposite view.

(My apologies for grammar and spelling mistakes).

:)

I think WP has been admitted by Israel, although they say it was used in a legitimate way...of course they say that.... they also refuse to even investigate allegations of war crimes that have fairly heavy evidence. Any serious allegation should be taken seriously by authorities....but not Israel.

Alex, I would not call some of the civilian deaths collateral damage. At the end of the Israeli attack on Palestine a year ago, I saw photos of Israeli soldiers wearing T-shirts with, printed on the front, a charicature of a heavily pregnant arab woman, with cross-hairs superimposed. The slogan was "One shot, two kills".

With soldiers that find pride or humour in that sentiment, I find it hard to believe that all civilian deaths were accidental and coincidental.

On the one hand, you have one to three million humans who love our enemy even as they kill us.

The remaining 6 billion humans believe you should kill enemies. For jesus. allah, jahweh, nation, or tribes.

On the one hand, you have one to three million humans who love our enemy even as they kill us.

The remaining 6 billion humans believe you should kill enemies. For jesus. allah, jahweh, nation, or tribes.

well at that rate it is going to take a long time for the hundreth monkey to take hold, only 57million to go.

So if they continue to ask the US...nicely & not so nicely to leave & they do not leave....If then Students take up arms to rid their country of what they deem to be invaders....Then What? Are they too then Terrorist/Targets?

Interestingly enough, the English translation of "Taliban" is "students".

I find it hard to believe. Fly in to a village, handcuff 10-yr olds, then execute them? Doesn't make any sense. As is often said on this forum, and I'm paraphrasing, "don't be a sheeple and believe everything you are told".

On a side note, these students have one very nice professionally made banner, "Obama, take your soldiers out of Afghanistan". I wouldn't have expected that kind of quality to be found in Jalalabad.

If true, would you condemn it?

Quote Koheesti: On a side note, these students have one very nice professionally made banner, "Obama, take your soldiers out of Afghanistan". I wouldn't have expected that kind of quality to be found in Jalalabad.

Do you think the media is manipulated (both sides)?

Have you ever been there or just base your judgments on what the media tells you?

:)

If true, would you condemn it?

Quote Koheesti: On a side note, these students have one very nice professionally made banner, "Obama, take your soldiers out of Afghanistan". I wouldn't have expected that kind of quality to be found in Jalalabad.

Do you think the media is manipulated (both sides)?

The media is either manipulating us or being manipulated themselves. I wish we could just get straight forward news. I'd also like affordable taxis on Samui. Oh, well.

And, yes, if true, I would condemn it. I would also be surprised if the military didn't bring charges up against the soldiers like they have done in the past.

Have you ever been there or just base your judgments on what the media tells you?

:)

Hmmm, if I said that I believed the story, would you have asked me this question? This story comes from the media afterall. What about you (or anyone else here on the forum)? Have you been there or just base what you know on what others (media, Italian communist documentary makers, etc) tell you?

Even if someone has experience there, it won't be the same as everyone else's. I'd be willing to bet that for every "foreign-soldiers-executed-our-young-children" story out of Afghanistan there are thousands of "foreign-troops-are-really-helping-us" stories. As they say in the news business, "if it bleeds, it leads".

  • Author
The media is either manipulating us or being manipulated themselves.

“If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” - Mark Twain .....

Also kind of hard when "credible sources" turn out to be whacko's :)

First 2 minutes only the other 2 are about another "credible source" dealing with the markets

So if they continue to ask the US...nicely & not so nicely to leave & they do not leave....If then Students take up arms to rid their country of what they deem to be invaders....Then What? Are they too then Terrorist/Targets?

Interestingly enough, the English translation of "Taliban" is "students".

only if you believe the poor man's source of knowledge and general education. if you'd master arabic you'd know that the actual meaning is similar but still not same-same. a correct interpretation would be "he who is seeking / those who are seeking [knowledge]."

naturally it is too much to ask for that somebody speaks arabic who indirectly condones the killings of young boys because they were "students" and therefore "taliban".

So if they continue to ask the US...nicely & not so nicely to leave & they do not leave....If then Students take up arms to rid their country of what they deem to be invaders....Then What? Are they too then Terrorist/Targets?

Interestingly enough, the English translation of "Taliban" is "students".

only if you believe the poor man's source of knowledge and general education. if you'd master arabic you'd know that the actual meaning is similar but still not same-same. a correct interpretation would be "he who is seeking / those who are seeking [knowledge]."

naturally it is too much to ask for that somebody speaks arabic who indirectly condones the killings of young boys because they were "students" and therefore "taliban".

That's all fine and dandy but the Taliban aren't Arabs. They are Pashtun and the translation I gave is accurate.

So if they continue to ask the US...nicely & not so nicely to leave & they do not leave....If then Students take up arms to rid their country of what they deem to be invaders....Then What? Are they too then Terrorist/Targets?

Interestingly enough, the English translation of "Taliban" is "students".

only if you believe the poor man's source of knowledge and general education. if you'd master arabic you'd know that the actual meaning is similar but still not same-same. a correct interpretation would be "he who is seeking / those who are seeking [knowledge]."

naturally it is too much to ask for that somebody speaks arabic who indirectly condones the killings of young boys because they were "students" and therefore "taliban".

That's all fine and dandy but the Taliban aren't Arabs. They are Pashtun and the translation I gave is accurate.

killing young boys is fine and dandy? you forgot to mention that all Taliban are Christians, pashtu is written using cyrillic letters, the pashtu Qr'an is an accurate translation of the Matthew gospel, you are teaching quantum mechanics in pashtu at the University of Kandahar, know therefore that pashtu, urdu and farsi have no relation at all with arabic and you did not get your translation from a dubious source like Wikipedia where any clown can write anything if not challenged.

it's too early. your mother is still sleeping, otherwise i would call and ask her to wash your mouth with soap. :)

Interestingly enough, the English translation of "Taliban" is "students".

only if you believe the poor man's source of knowledge and general education. if you'd master arabic you'd know that the actual meaning is similar but still not same-same. a correct interpretation would be "he who is seeking / those who are seeking [knowledge]."

naturally it is too much to ask for that somebody speaks arabic who indirectly condones the killings of young boys because they were "students" and therefore "taliban".

That's all fine and dandy but the Taliban aren't Arabs. They are Pashtun and the translation I gave is accurate.

killing young boys is fine and dandy? you forgot to mention that all Taliban are Christians, pashtu is written using cyrillic letters, the pashtu Qr'an is an accurate translation of the Matthew gospel, you are teaching quantum mechanics in pashtu at the University of Kandahar, know therefore that pashtu, urdu and farsi have no relation at all with arabic and you did not get your translation from a dubious source like Wikipedia where any clown can write anything if not challenged.

it's too early. your mother is still sleeping, otherwise i would call and ask her to wash your mouth with soap. :)

Wow, you are really squirming here, aren't you? As you very well know, "fine and dandy" refers to your "master of Arabic" rant. You thought the Taliban were Arabs. No getting around that. I didn't include you in my "truce", but I'll still extend you the same courtesy and take the high road here even though you might not deserve it for your unwarranted attack.

Wow, you are really squirming here, aren't you? As you very well know, "fine and dandy" refers to your "master of Arabic" rant. You thought the Taliban were Arabs. No getting around that.

Bravo! clap2.gif

Saw this one and I must say that if that is the mindset (the reaction of the crowd) of the average American there is little hope I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keXKgjs6eqw

(Just only look and listen to the speech of the wrestler and the reaction of the crowd).

So you agree the media/people is/are manipulated in some way (same we have seen from this alleged financial crisis).

So where to get some other info from? There have been a few journalists that have tried to cover what is really happening there and I have seen a few docu's made by some. The docu's are in my native language so I will try to find a version with subtitles or something. I have talked with a few soldiers that were in Iraq and Afghanistan and they assured me it was/is total madness there. Orders like shoot at anything that moves when it looks suspicious. The example I gave from the Times article is not a stand alone incident, the recent court case against some Blackwater employees and the result of it says enough.

.

You thought the Taliban were Arabs. No getting around that.

In fairness. I don't think Naam ever said he thought the Taliban were acyually Arabs. He only said the following:-

if you'd master arabic you'd know that the actual meaning is similar but still not same-same. a correct interpretation would be "he who is seeking / those who are seeking [knowledge]."

All English speakers don't have to be from England. And it's the same with Arabic.

Room for a little one?

"Osama Bin Laden himself is one of 53 children of Mohammed bin Laden, a Saudi of Yemeni origin. Mohammed was close to Saudi royalty until his death in a plane crash in 1967. Osama bin Laden was 10 at the time and had little contact with this father. Osama bin Laden reportedly has 24 brothers and 28 sisters born to 10 different women. The al-Qaida leader is the only son of the least favorite wife, according to reports. His mother is a Palestinian, who now lives in Syria."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22768778/ns/wo...news-terrorism/

"Technically he is half Palestinian on his mother's side and half Yemeni on his father's side."

http://www.comebackalive.com/df/dplaces/afghanis/player7.htm

I'll let the USAF have the last word. If they don't know.......nobody does. :)

"Hamida, a Syrian woman of Palestinian descent"

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/post.pdf

Regards.

All English speakers don't have to be from England. And it's the same with Arabic.

Thank you spinmeister.

canstock1567179.png

Saw this one and I must say that if that is the mindset (the reaction of the crowd) of the average American there is little hope I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keXKgjs6eqw

(Just only look and listen to the speech of the wrestler and the reaction of the crowd).

So you agree the media/people is/are manipulated in some way (same we have seen from this alleged financial crisis).

So where to get some other info from? There have been a few journalists that have tried to cover what is really happening there and I have seen a few docu's made by some. The docu's are in my native language so I will try to find a version with subtitles or something. I have talked with a few soldiers that were in Iraq and Afghanistan and they assured me it was/is total madness there. Orders like shoot at anything that moves when it looks suspicious. The example I gave from the Times article is not a stand alone incident, the recent court case against some Blackwater employees and the result of it says enough.

Alex, I believe they ALL have an agenda hence manipulate, not only governments. The media, journalists, documentary makers, etc. I don't believe there are anymore "real" journalists out there anymore either. All seem to want to write a story that confirms their belief. I remember years ago I was a member of a forum from Moscow around the time of their 1998 financial crisis. A journalist posted a request for people to who fit certain profiles such as "young expat with high-paying job, living the wild life in Moscow, then the crash comes". As a few posters correctly pointed out, he was just looking for names to attach to a story he had already written. He had no interest in learning what was really happening. I think the same is true for most journalists today. Even that Italian documentary - while interesting - included questionable testimony from a journalist for an Italian communist paper. Do you really think that she has no agenda of her own? And, no, I don't mean she is only looking for pravda.

I think the best we can do is get as much info as we can from various sources and try to make our own decisions based on what seems to make sense to us. Forums like this are a great place because you get links to sources to different points of view that you might never have run across before from all over the political spectrum. You posted links to documentaries I never would have found on my own. I posted links to where you can see how many people are actually being killed in Iraq and by whom. Can each of these be trusted 100%? Probably not. But taken together, hopefully we can get a clearer picture. But looking at only one side and saying they are always right or wrong isn't going to do it.

  • Author
Saw this one and I must say that if that is the mindset (the reaction of the crowd) of the average American there is little hope I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keXKgjs6eqw

The final line of the vid Alex is.... "you America are a junkie"

Whilst I know he meant this....

post-51988-1262454496_thumb.jpg

post-51988-1262454592_thumb.jpg

It goes much further & follows the path of all dying empires drunk with power that came before.

Room for a little one?

His mother is a Palestinian, who now lives in Syria."

"Technically he is half Palestinian on his mother's side and half Yemeni on his father's side."

I'll let the USAF have the last word. If they don't know.......nobody does. :D

"Hamida, a Syrian woman of Palestinian descent"

even if Osama's mother would personally testify here the resident spinmeisters wouldn't accept it :)

Room for a little one?

His mother is a Palestinian, who now lives in Syria."

"Technically he is half Palestinian on his mother's side and half Yemeni on his father's side."

I'll let the USAF have the last word. If they don't know.......nobody does. :D

"Hamida, a Syrian woman of Palestinian descent"

even if Osama's mother would personally testify here the resident spinmeisters wouldn't accept it :)

I don't know why anyone would find it so hard to believe that the most sought after terrorist in the world has Palestinian blood ihis veins. It makes perfect sense.

  • Author
I don't know why anyone would find it so hard to believe that the most sought after terrorist in the world has Palestinian blood ihis veins. It makes perfect sense.

Terrorist come in all shapes & sizes...colors, blood types etc. Although I rarely hear a persons ethnicity or nationality causes them to have a special blood other than A+, B+, A-,B-, AB, O etc.

All that aside.... Terrorism....The kind that causes the US to occupy countries.....I still have a feeling there would be no reaction if there was not certain actions to begin with. After all we have enough folks as I said to have them all come home & join hands at the border surrounding the US & we would probably have extra bodies. Who died & made the US the world police?

Lastly if they ever find this most sought after terrorist in the world I will be very surprised because....

1) I doubt he is alive

2) With the technology available today... to hear the worlds super power claim they cant find him....when I'm sure they could find a pin in the sands of the sahara if they wanted to..... Well that is a surprising claim isn't it?

It might be a bit inconvenient to catc BL as he was a former CIA asset and at that time killing Russians he was not a terrorist.

But yes that Yemen connection shows up again......highly suspicious :)

Better throw a few more bombs there on a few of those tent camps, who knows there might be a few radicals inside. And how about this Chaves guy?

Can he be somehow involved in some kind of terrorism.....hmmmmmmm....economic terror maybe, hm, yeah let's do that. And then there is Somalia as a possible target......busy guy's those military planners.

All that aside.... Terrorism....The kind that causes the US to occupy countries.....I still have a feeling there would be no reaction if there was not certain actions to begin with.

So it all comes down to who started it and who should have turned the other cheek? Good luck to anyone who seriously tries to figure that one out.

After all we have enough folks as I said to have them all come home & join hands at the border surrounding the US & we would probably have extra bodies. Who died & made the US the world police?

If you tried to surround the borders of the US by holding hands you would soon run out of bodies after the Pacific and Atlantic oceans washed them away. And the ones on the land borders would be overrun by those trying to get into the USA.

Who died and made the US the world police? The Bristish Empire?? :) Sadly, the US is expected to be a sort of world police. Not by the "crooks" of the world, but by the "victims". I've heard "come help us" as much as "mind your own business". This includes the Palestinans. I've seen more than one Palestinian spokesperson calling on the US to come up with a plan to save them instead of trying to do something themselves.

Lastly if they ever find this most sought after terrorist in the world I will be very surprised because....

1) I doubt he is alive

2) With the technology available today... to hear the worlds super power claim they cant find him....when I'm sure they could find a pin in the sands of the sahara if they wanted to..... Well that is a surprising claim isn't it?

1) I doubt he's alive too. When was the last time he was heard of or even seen? If he isn't dead, he's is bad shape.

2) It isn't nearly surprising as the 5 years it took to find Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park Bomber (Atlanta, 1996). Despite being on the FBI's most wanted list, being an American, speaker of English, hiding out in the Smokey Mountains a few hours drive from Washington DC, surrounded by Americans who were not aiding him, he managed to elude capture for 5 years. Whereas you have Osama, of a different culture, on the other side of the world, hiding in a mountain range much larger than the Smokies, where the USA cannot send in people on the ground, with Osama being protected by people hostile to the USA, it is not much of a surprise at all that he hasn't been located even in the 8 years.

He must be in of of those caves I am sure :)

Have a short look at this one, hilarious.

Here another reason why they can't find him........... :D

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